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Lupin III - "The Woman Called Fujiko Mine" |OT| HARD & DANGEROUS

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Ratings for the show have been higher than expected, actually, getting into the top ten rankings as of Episode 3 (earlier?). It's future should be fine so long as we can get out of the character-intro stuff and into some real development.
 

duckroll

Member
Ratings for the show have been higher than expected, actually, getting into the top ten rankings as of Episode 3 (earlier?). It's future should be fine so long as we can get out of the character-intro stuff and into some real development.

The first two episodes had good ratings. It tanked after that. I haven't checked ep4's ratings yet.
 
After thinking about for a while, I've decided that the fanservice in this show shouldn't get a pass for being anything other than the same stupid, pointless, bunk that we see in a typical harem comedy - especially that ridiculous OP sequence. It's not "mature". It's not "artistic". It just happens to benefit from existing in a space not usually known for that kind of thing. There.
 

Jex

Member
Nothing wrong in complaining if the show isn't that good.

Well, I certainly don't have any problem complaining when something is bad.

I just don't think that 'being different from other Lupin works' makes it 'bad'. That's not a complaint that I really think makes any sense.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
After thinking about for a while, I've decided that the fanservice in this show shouldn't get a pass for being anything other than the same stupid, pointless, bunk that we see in a typical harem comedy - especially that ridiculous OP sequence. It's not "mature". It's not "artistic". It just happens to benefit from existing in a space not usually known for that kind of thing. There.

I am pretty sure the opening is meant to be artistic, even if it is failing badly at it.
 
I'm surprised that people think that the nudity in this show is strictly fan-service, given that it plays into how vapid and without doctrine Fujiko currently is in these early episodes. Let alone the OP, Fujiko is rarely discriminate with using the only thing she knows best to get what she wants—more of a genuine character trait than merchandising one's wares to the fourth wall, anyway.

The OP's really well-made. I wonder if Naruyoshi Kikuchi was involved in its creation, given how he conspicuously remastered one of his own compositions "Wuthering Heights" to be used for it.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
I am starting to wonder if any of them will actually get away with a treasure yet. I am still really bugged at the cop out for destroying the mask.
 

Jex

Member
I think the opening is pretty great. I don't really think the the 'fanservice' is much of a problem, either. It's generally there because of some specific story purpose, rather than having a scene which was created solely for the purpose of showing us some exposed flesh.
 
About MacGuffins: Lupin episodes usually don't like to end with any of the treasures getting in the hands of any of the regulars, save Fujiko (who, inevitably, is doomed to lose everything she got in the end—back to business!).

About Mamo: I'd be interested in knowing why you don't like it, Pizzaroll. Thought it was great myself.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
About Mamo: I'd be interested in knowing why you don't like it, Pizzaroll. Thought it was great myself.
My main problem is the constant tone flipping. I still don't even know what the movie was trying to be after nearly 2 months since I saw it.

It's pretty bad in all aspects but that's the one that made me go "yeah this is pretty bad" after I was done.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
About MacGuffins: Lupin episodes usually don't like to end with any of the treasures getting in the hands of any of the regulars, save Fujiko (who, inevitably, is doomed to lose everything she got in the end—back to business!).

I don't mind Lupin or the others not actually ending up with the Treasure or it getting destroyed, I am just annoyed they couldn't come up with a better way to keep them from having it. I think I would have preferred a simple "The mask is actually worthless" explanation, with Lupin knowing all along and reinforcing the fact that he simply likes the thrill of the heist, slightly building the bond between him and Fujiko, who the series is trying to imply steals with a somewhat similar motive, that it is more about the act and not the item.

But no, just have the crazy lady toss it into the fire that can't actually destroy it.
 

duckroll

Member
I think that the next episode is definitely going to be somewhat influenced by Secret of Mamo in some general ways. But it'll probably be different enough. I just hope it's good honestly. I really want to like this series, but outside of Ep2, I haven't really loved it. :/
 
I don't mind Lupin or the others not actually ending up with the Treasure or it getting destroyed, I am just annoyed they couldn't come up with a better way to keep them from having it. I think I would have preferred a simple "The mask is actually worthless" explanation, with Lupin knowing all along and reinforcing the fact that he simply likes the thrill of the heist, slightly building the bond between him and Fujiko, who the series is trying to imply steals with a somewhat similar motive, that it is more about the act and not the item.

But no, just have the crazy lady toss it into the fire that can't actually destroy it.
It's been implied since the dawn of time that Lupin is only in it for the thrill, and not so much the gain—his development in the first episode made that subtle yet clear to understand. And I wasn't bothered by tossing the mask into the fire. While I'm not certain about whether it would actually melt in the fire, that's going to turn into a chemistry question real quick.

—Which, of course, is a sign that it wasn't handled too well because it would lead exuberant fans to debate that instead.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
While it is well known to fans that Lupin steals for the thrill, a prequel like this should be able to stand up on its own and be accessible to people new to the series, so I feel the series could have used this as a chance to have it pointed out to Fujiko, and thus the audience, some more, who doesn't seem to get it yet.

Now, onto the Chemistry question, here are some figures.

The melting point of Gold and Copper is over 1000C, Silver is around 950C (Gold is usually mixed with those two to make it stronger), Ruby is 2000C, Amethyst is 1650C, though the Emerald in the Center would have shattered.

A wood burning oven used for cooking would burn at about 750C at its hottest. So while it may have been damaged, it would not have "Burned to a crisp".

You know what else would of been better way to get rid of the mask? For the water flow to that "Dried up" river to get a bit more powerful, and for someone to fumble the mask into it, getting wash away to parts unknown, which would of been decently symbolic.




Also, this Necklace bugged me all throughout the episode. They really couldn't have drawn a few more links?
necklace.jpg
 
Episode 4

I had thought a lack of production values would be what dragged this episode down, but that didn't turn out to be the case. Well, it doesn't have the first episode's interesting animation (seriously, this week's Space Brothers had a more interesting cut) or the second episode's atmospheric framing and direction, but that wasn't the main problem. No, the main problem is that no one seems like they're having fun, and thus I can't have fun watching them. Lupin is the only exception to that, and thus his scenes were the most entertaining, but he doesn't have anyone to play off of. Zenigata served that function well in the older Lupin, living for the thrill of the chase, but now he's this dour man:


And don't get me started on Fujiko, who's incredibly passive for supposedly being the lead character. There was that surreal scene which hinted at exploring her backstory and motivations further, but it didn't do a good job of portraying the intended mystery in a compelling way. There's a strangely nihilist air that hangs over the entire show. Everyone feels like they're going through the motions in a world where meaning and vitality dried up a long time ago. Not only is this not what I want out of the Lupin franchise, this is not what I want out of entertainment.

It didn't help that the pacing and editing were terribly disjointed - scenes passed by one after another without linking together until suddenly we were at the end and stupidity happened. A clever caper this was not.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
I didn't ask for you to answer a goddamn chemistry question. You could have just had a little suspension of disbelief or just made your point about that deus ex machina. :|
But he's right. When it got thrown into the fire the idea of any of the
mask burning, particularly the gems
, made me laugh.
 
But the argument's just gotten to the point that it's silly and devalued, just like that mask Aiyan was wearing!

lol, I thought the whole ending was mediocre myself. Whether this episode's better than 3, though, is going to be something to answer later.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
I didn't ask for you to answer a goddamn chemistry question. You could have just had a little suspension of disbelief or just made your point about that deus ex machina. :|

Sorry, I am trying to pick this episode apart, due to how much I disliked it. If the episode was any good, I would likely not have even questioned the logic, but the episode did next to nothing in a way I feel is right. The only thing they didn't screw up was Lupin, and even he was a bit weak.

I am also somewhat trying to put some more evidence with the discussion earlier about the writing that Duckroll and Dragoon were having before.

On anther note, I Personally liked episode 3. It was predictable, but the side characters were both likable and believable, and the presentation of Goemon came off really well.
 
Haven't seen it yet, though I've heard that it's got a more conventional team dynamic going on (Jigen teaming with Lupin for the first time, and Fujiko apparently playing side here).
 
This one is a real return to form, guys. Conventional pyramid caper, less Fujiko acting bemused on screen (which means she's relegated to framing the development between Lupin and Jigen, unfortunately for the show's integrity), and amazing animation and style. I think we're going to like it.
 

Ezalc

Member
Didn't expect Zenigata do be like that in episode 4, I'm glad that Oscar was constantly on Fujiko's case about it, got a good laugh out of me.
 
Oscar seems to be pretty cynical towards everyone, I bet. He takes a jab at Zenigata when the inspector got pumped with fake blood, and he constantly mocks both Fujiko and Pops for engaging in their sexual activities. Interested in seeing how this develops myself.

Oh: I found the first Yasuo Otsuka cameo—he takes Jigen to the pyramid, in a Jeep.

Awesome detail work.
 

LordCanti

Member
Am I going insane, or was episode 5 animated by a troop of wild chimpanzees? The story was a return to form, but oh man was the animation visually jarring and difficult to follow in some spots.

At this point I think they may as well have Fujiko spend the entire episode naked. They'd only be increasing her on screen nudity by about twenty percent.
 

Dresden

Member
Too lazy to write up something else, must repost.

ep4 said:
I had mixed feelings about the episode. Thought it was competent, and somewhat fun to watch, and more along the lines of what I had expected from the show going on. But it also feels rather lethargic at parts, and moreover, I'm not quite so fond of what they've chosen to do with the characters. They all feel like such cynical, spiteful people--with Fujiko herself being this nihilistic, amoral person whose capers amount to nothing more than a manifestation of her self-destructiveness. The OP hints at such and I guess this is where they'll go.

That said I'm glad to hear that ep5 is good, or w/e.

edit: also did anyone else find that little flashback with Fujiko really awful with them awful discordant tunes
 
edit: also did anyone else find that little flashback with Fujiko really awful with them awful discordant tunes

I neglected to mention that in my review, but it was indeed off-putting and the shockingly dissonant, disjunct music contributed to it feeling out-of-place. It's what makes me most concerned about the overall conception of the show, even more than the characterization, since the only reason for the scene to be there is to provide a first glimpse at what will be delved into more deeply towards the end.
 

duckroll

Member
Episode 5

This was certainly more enjoyable than the last two episodes. I like the characterizations of Jigen and Lupin, so that helps make the story this week more engaging. There is also some pretty interesting action animation throughout the episode, but the overall production values feel very inconsistent. There are some hilarious bad scenes in terms of how they were directed and animated, but that aside, it was more fun than the usual Fujiko episode. Still not quite as good as Ep2 imo, but it's close. What pissed me off about this week's episode is how many scenes feel totally ruined by the shadow filter. It's extremely distracting this week, and ruins the otherwise good looking art when applied in poor ways.
 
tumblr_m3gdnedqBt1qflc3ro2_400.gif


Lupin III: A woman named Fujiko Mine - Blood-Soaked Triangle.

I'm not sure if I enjoyed this one quite as much as everyone else. I appreciate it focussing solely on three of the main cast members and that it developed their relationships with one another; but it all just felt a little flat. The animation, while nice for the most part, seemed a bit off at times (especially with Lupin himself at the start.) The voice acting was fine and the story was decent... it's just the Lupin spark wasn't quite there IMO.

I loved the pyramid setting. It reminds me a lot of Secret of Mamo when Lupin and Jigen are infiltrating the pyramid at the start. I did however enjoy the opening to Mamo much more than this. It was fun, exciting to watch and is a very memorable piece of animation. This I felt wasn't so much. It definitely felt like something more from the manga; which is great still, but just something I cannot seem to get into as much (compared to Lupin moments like in Mamo.)

Lupin and Jigen's relationship with one another in this episode wasn't what I figured it would be either.
A lot of their conversation felt needless and boring. I appreciate them being hostile at first and then working together to escape traps, but the conversation they made just came off as very uninteresting to me. I do like how Jigen has Fujiko figured out already, though. Even at their first meeting he's warning Lupin about her and generally showing distaste towards the woman.

So I don't know. I enjoyed the episode and I will continue watching... I just didn't enjoy it as much as I expected too I guess? Maybe I have too high hopes...
 

Dresden

Member
ep5:

Jigen and Lupin are both more interesting than Fujiko and their presence along with the more interesting setting helped a lot. Some bad scenes, though, and when the shadow filter completely coats the screen it's just hideous and ruins everything. Thought the episode took a total dive once Fujiko showed up at the sand whirlpool. The whole thing just feels rather sluggish. When the episode ended it was more of a relief it did, and that doesn't bode well for a twenty-minute or so piece of animation.
 
Maybe people just expect the art to be too clean, which was never intended. I really like the animation in this episode—Ben looked up the director/animator/storyboarder, Shin Itagaki, and it turns out he was a little Yasuo Otsuka in many ways—and I don't see the problem with witnessing one of Jigen's first big adventures, particularly one where he's unaccompanied, trying to distance himself from being a bodyguard and to have a break searching for treasure in Egypt. If anything, the humorous incidents going on within the pyramid are reflective of this new period of his life, whereas Lupin is both accustomed to the adventure lifestyle and at the top of the ladder. Even if the expressions are rougher overall, as is the animation, the way Jigen's journey is portrayed feels mature and controlled, while Fujiko is blissfully-unaware of what she's doing, and Lupin is just screwing about.

I haven't watched this subbed yet, though, so I wouldn't know all of the specifics. What I do know is that the storyboard compositions felt fluid and intimate despite the scale of the episode; the excellent use of gun-point stand-offs and figurative characterization throughout keeps the early-Green Jacket complexity while injecting animated humor and Red Jacket-style antics into the plot; hell, this is some of the best voice work I've ever heard in a modern Lupin production, with Kurita playing his restrained Lupin brilliantly and Kobayashi still doing a great classic Jigen (and Fujiko's seiyuu isn't bad at all). This week's contribution just felt balanced and well put-together overall.

ep5:

Jigen and Lupin are both more interesting than Fujiko and their presence along with the more interesting setting helped a lot. Some bad scenes, though, and when the shadow filter completely coats the screen it's just hideous and ruins everything. Thought the episode took a total dive once Fujiko showed up at the sand whirlpool. The whole thing just feels rather sluggish. When the episode ended it was more of a relief it did, and that doesn't bode well for a twenty-minute or so piece of animation.
Fujiko was an inherently-bad choice for series protagonist and viewpoint frame, and she's not going to really develop until later—now, of course, the series is moving on to establishing classic relationships and double-acts, anyway. The shadows were fine for the most part, but the constant contrast between those fine-line shadow shots and the scratch-texture ones is upsetting to me. And the episode was great all-around, mainly because Fujiko got Jigen and Lupin at the best time possible—she's competent enough to know when they're distracted, at least. The last thing this episode feels like is sluggish, especially after the prodding pace of the previous episode.

I don't know how polarized Anime-GAF normally is towards non-RomCom/moe shows, but this show seems to have brought out a whole bunch of conflicting opinions. One more reason for me to stay.
 
Lupin is great source material for an animator-cum-director, like it or not. After having TMS put out such dull, homogenous animation and art direction for the more recent Lupin specials, a new perspective with old-fashioned roots is a good thing for the franchise.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
I don't know how polarized Anime-GAF normally is towards non-RomCom/moe shows, but this show seems to have brought out a whole bunch of conflicting opinions. One more reason for me to stay.
What do romcom/moe shows have to do with AnimeGAF other than being anime

This series is just a slog so far. Sayo Yamamoto is terrible. :(
 
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