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[BocoDragon]

I can get behind that. Some sort of middle ground would probably be satisfying. But I am fond of the idea of Zenigata being nearly as good an officer as Lupin is a criminal. Moriarty-Holmes kinda thing going on there. But I guess it needs to be more "Lupin-Ganimard," doesn't it? Did you check out the First TV Series yet? (The first one with the green sport jacket.)

a la your Reggie avatar? lol

No I have not, but I think I'm gonna check it out with the gf soon (she grew up on Lupin so it should be a total nostalgia trip). Thanks for the reminder!

Ganimard is from the Lupin I novels, yes?

 

[Lupin the Third]

a la your Reggie avatar? lol

No I have not, but I think I'm gonna check it out with the gf soon (she grew up on Lupin so it should be a total nostalgia trip). Thanks for the reminder!

Ganimard is from the Lupin I novels, yes?

Correct, good catch. In fact, his "descendant" (according to "Lupin the 3rd" canon) plays a classy antagonist role for Lupin in episode 19, "Which Third-Generation Will Win?!" I actually worked on the new US DVD set that just came out. I went into the project remembering that Episode 17 was my favorite (the twists at the very end are refreshing), but after seeing 19 with a decent translation, it quickly became my favorite episode, hands down.

But in the original novels, Ganimard is basically just Lupin the 1st's Zenigata: a rival that can't quite keep up but isn't exactly a total buffoon. That's partly why when Zenigata gets dumbed down to a pool of microorganisms, I sometimes get upset. Why is he even in the movie or episode at that point? Just write him out already!

The original Arsène Lupin stories have a much more "mystery novel" feel to them than the action-comedy antics of Lupin the Third, so YMMV on whether you'd enjoy them.

 

[BocoDragon]

Correct, good catch. In fact, his "descendant" (according to "Lupin the 3rd" canon) plays a classy antagonist role for Lupin in episode 19, "Which Third-Generation Will Win?!" I actually worked on the new US DVD set that just came out. I went into the project remembering that Episode 17 was my favorite (the twists at the very end are refreshing), but after seeing 19 with a decent translation, it quickly became my favorite episode, hands down.

You worked on it?... very cool! Yeah I saw it in the pickup thread.

It was and always will be in SDTV, right? No reason to wait 10 years for a Blu-ray or anything? When you say "DVD", I need that assurance before I buy

I LOVE 70s anime.

But in the original novels, Ganimard is basically just Lupin the 1st's Zenigata: a rival that can't quite keep up but isn't exactly a total buffoon. That's partly why when Zenigata gets dumbed down to a pool of microorganisms, I sometimes get upset. Why is he even in the movie or episode at that point? Just write him out already!

The original Arsène Lupin stories have a much more "mystery novel" feel to them than the action-comedy antics of Lupin the Third, so YMMV on whether you'd enjoy them.

Ah I see your point. You already have the reference point of a smart foil for Lupin, so I see why you want the potential of a competant Zenigata.

I may check out the books someday, recognizing that they certainly have a different appeal. I like a lot of different things Thanks for the heads up about that.

 

[Lupin the Third]

You worked on it?... very cool! Yeah I saw it in the pickup thread.

It was and always will be in SDTV, right? No reason to wait 10 years for a Blu-ray or anything? When you say "DVD", I need that assurance before I buy

I LOVE 70s anime.

I was the special features producer. The commentaries are kinda hit-and-miss (I did 3, some other guys did a couple; mine were admittedly pretty last-minute), but there's a bunch of liner notes and the pilot films are pretty interesting to watch.

The show could actually work pretty well in Blu-ray, but there's a catch. The only HD masters in the wild for the first series are what TMS (the Japanese studio who owns the anime rights) put together. TMS (or VAP, whomever actually did the remaster) took a weird shortcut: they freeze-framed everything for scenes where there's no motion, and where there's only little motion, everything is frozen except the grain around the moving element. This is true both of the new US DVDs and the Japanese Blu-rays.

On the DVD set, this problem isn't super-noticeable unless you're watching the screen fairly closely and intently (on a PC would be a pretty dead giveaway). But on Blu-ray...oh man. The frozen grain particles alone are obvious as heck. The US company that released the new DVD set, Discotek, considered releasing the show as Blu-rays but after watching the Japanese release, they decided it was a downgrade from the DVD and abandoned the idea altogether.

Maybe someday the Japanese will remaster the show properly without grain-freezing, but the DVD is still pretty watchable even with it. It's not perfect, of course, but it's infinitely better than the Hong Kong bootlegs everyone in the fandom used to buy online for years just to have their fix. The colors pop and the details are clear.

If the price is holding you back, I think DVDPlanet has it on sale for like $25(!) for another day or two, and DeepDiscount had it for about $32 with free shipping also when I checked last night. Quite the savings over Amazon's $50....

And you're welcome! And thank you! If you have any questions about the series or whatever, you can always just message me on here. I'll try not to hijack the "Fujiko" thread anymore.

 

[BocoDragon]

I was the special features producer. The commentaries are kinda hit-and-miss (I did 3, some other guys did a couple; mine were admittedly pretty last-minute), but there's a bunch of liner notes and the pilot films are pretty interesting to watch.

The show could actually work pretty well in Blu-ray, but there's a catch. The only HD masters in the wild for the first series are what TMS (the Japanese studio who owns the anime rights) put together. TMS (or VAP, whomever actually did the remaster) took a weird shortcut: they freeze-framed everything for scenes where there's no motion, and where there's only little motion, everything is frozen except the grain around the moving element. This is true both of the new US DVDs and the Japanese Blu-rays.

On the DVD set, this problem isn't super-noticeable unless you're watching the screen fairly closely and intently (on a PC would be a pretty dead giveaway). But on Blu-ray...oh man. The frozen grain particles alone are obvious as heck. The US company that released the new DVD set, Discotek, considered releasing the show as Blu-rays but after watching the Japanese release, they decided it was a downgrade from the DVD and abandoned the idea altogether.

Maybe someday the Japanese will remaster the show properly without grain-freezing, but the DVD is still pretty watchable even with it. It's not perfect, of course, but it's infinitely better than the Hong Kong bootlegs everyone in the fandom used to buy online for years just to have their fix. The colors pop and the details are clear.

If the price is holding you back, I think DVDPlanet has it on sale for like $25(!) for another day or two, and DeepDiscount had it for about $32 with free shipping also when I checked last night. Quite the savings over Amazon's $50....

And you're welcome! And thank you! If you have any questions about the series or whatever, you can always just message me on here. I'll try not to hijack the "Fujiko" thread anymore.

Ah I see the reasoning then. As long as the answer is not "well the blu-rays are coming in 6 months", then I'm cool with getting this. You may have just sold me on it

Cheers! I'll definitely message ya if I think of something.

 

[duckroll]

I generally stopped posting in this thread because I didn't want to be a Debby Downer every time I posted about the show. But it's impossible for me to not be down on the show because it's honestly really that bad. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a Lupin series to be fun and enjoyable.

There's nothing wrong with trying to have more elaborate artwork, or to mimic old european graphic novels in the art direction. I also don't have a problem with a series which tries to inject more "adult" themes to try and make it more appealing for older audiences who might want a bit more erotic and "edgy" content.

The problem here is that in the end, I don't think they really achieved anything they were going for. The entire sum of the series feels like a massive merry-go-round where the creators on the show had ideas of doing something experimental but never managed to figure out how to express those in actual meaningful terms which would entertain both Lupin fans and fans of serial animation looking for something interesting.

It's really unfortunate, and also frustrating, because for a classic franchise to get a brand new TV series after so many years, and having relatively talented staff on board who could really breath some new energy and life into it... to watch it fall flat on its face is pretty painful. :/

 

[/XX/]

I generally stopped posting in this thread because I didn't want to be a Debby Downer every time I posted about the show. But it's impossible for me to not be down on the show because it's honestly really that bad. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a Lupin series to be fun and enjoyable.

There's nothing wrong with trying to have more elaborate artwork, or to mimic old european graphic novels in the art direction. I also don't have a problem with a series which tries to inject more "adult" themes to try and make it more appealing for older audiences who might want a bit more erotic and "edgy" content.

The problem here is that in the end, I don't think they really achieved anything they were going for. The entire sum of the series feels like a massive merry-go-round where the creators on the show had ideas of doing something experimental but never managed to figure out how to express those in actual meaningful terms which would entertain both Lupin fans and fans of serial animation looking for something interesting.

It's really unfortunate, and also frustrating, because for a classic franchise to get a brand new TV series after so many years, and having relatively talented staff on board who could really breath some new energy and life into it... to watch it fall flat on its face is pretty painful. :/

So, ultimately... has Yamakan's early comments been vindicated (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36651504&postcount=7037)?

 

[Basileus777]

The finale wasn't even bad in a mildly entertaining way, it was just endless amounts of dull exposition.

 

[Salaadin]

Sucks to hear all this about this show.

Skimming this thread made me realize that I never really gave the old Lupin series a shot. I always caught it on cartoon network many years ago and loved it so now Im thinking of getting the full thing. Can someone clue me in, is THIS the one Im looking for? Is there a better set available?

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

If the finale really is that bad, then the show's failed. Plain simple. That was my caveat weeks back, and it still applies here. A shame, really, since I'm going to have to watch and then rewatch this series later-on to figure out how valid my arguments were.

As for the first Lupin season: keep in mind that it's the shortest of the seasons, and also the one with the most production issues overall. There are three distinct period of direction in the series as well: the Osumi period, then the transition period, and finally a head-on Miyazaki/Takahashi period. The former has a grittier, more Fujikoike-like approach that's very well-executed for the most part, yet the latter is more similar to what fans would call "traditional Lupin". I personally prefer the Osumi episodes to the MiyaHata episodes by-and-large, due to the complexity of the character development, scenarios, and symbolic relationships. One episode even provided a bit of backstory for Fujiko that made sense and didn't beat you over the head like this new series does. The Miyahata stuff succeeds in providing more laughs, crazier faces, and better animation overall. But there's a lot more OOC moments, and I wish Isao Takahata had more control over those episodes than Miyazaki did, in some ways.

Try it out.

 

[checkeredknight]

Sucks to hear all this about this show.

Skimming this thread made me realize that I never really gave the old Lupin series a shot. I always caught it on cartoon network many years ago and loved it so now Im thinking of getting the full thing. Can someone clue me in, is THIS the one Im looking for? Is there a better set available?

That is the first season and most likely not the one you saw on Cartoon Network. It's still very good though and well worth a watch, the DVD set is brand new and Discotek do fantastic releases. THIS is most likely the series you saw on Cartoon Network, the second season of Lupin III (or Shin Lupin III in Japan.)

 

[Lupin the Third]

That is the first season and most likely not the one you saw on Cartoon Network. It's still very good though and well worth a watch, the DVD set is brand new and Discotek do fantastic releases. THIS is most likely the series you saw on Cartoon Network, the second season of Lupin III (or Shin Lupin III in Japan.)

And those are only the first three volumes. The second TV series is 155 episodes long, and (for better or worse) only about half of them got released in English. The 15th and final English DVD can set you back a pretty penny, as I recall, but most of the other volumes are pretty easy to come by for reasonable prices.

Something to be prepared for from the Discotek set is that the show is not dubbed into English. If you're a dub fan, stick with the second series. If you're okay with subs, definitely check out the First Series. I think it's got a little bit of something for everyone, kinda like what Dragoon suggested.

There's a quick and dirty way to ID what Lupin TV Series you saw at a given time:
If Lupin wears a:
-Green Jacket (with clean linework and cel animation), it's the First Series ("Part I" or "Old Lupin", 1971-72)
-Red Jacket (and the animation looks old), it's the Second Series ("Part II" or "New Lupin", 1977-80)
-Pink Jacket, it's the Third Series ("Part III", 1984-85).
-Green Jacket (with sketchy linework and modern, digital animation), it's the "Fujiko" spinoff everybody hates.

There are gobs of made-for-TV-movies (often called TV Specials) and a few theatrical features and OVAs that vary in jacket color, but he mostly wears red nowadays, so this trick really only works with the TV series.

A few people over on the Lupinthe3rd.com Forums were hoping the ending would tie it all in to the First TV Series by having Lupin accept an invitation to Scorpion's F1 Hida Speedway race from the first Part I episode. While I can see where they were coming from, clearly this show had to play out its agenda of expository dialogue instead.

 

[LordCanti]

Just saw Episode 13. My feelings on this show remain the same: The art direction is spotty, the writing is often bad, and it doesn't feel like a Lupin show at all. The only exception was when Lupin's entire car lunged in an attempt to get to that sweet Fuji vagina, and was denied in classic Lupin fashion.

The whole bit with Fujiko going

Spoiler

"LOOK AT THIS, GIRL THAT WAS TORTURED AND HAD HER MIND COMPLETELY FUCKED! LOOK AT ME LIVING WHILE YOU CAN'T DO SHIT!"

was just.... ugh.

It was a nice try, but it fell flat on its ass.

 

[IC_Champion]

That episode was one big mess.

 

[wildthing2022000]

I liked this series, thought it was a fine green jacket series. Might of worked better as a movie though.

 

[Gutsy Frog]

I'd say my dislike of Fujiko's tone isn't really the result of "they changed it, now it sucks" as much as "they changed a fairly unique franchise and made it into a pretty normal 'dark, adult' anime". I hope this isn't the last Lupin III TV series because I think there's still a lot of potential for good animated stuff to be made, and the yearly special format wouldn't really work too well.

I'd like to see an 'adult' Lupin anime that's actually like the old Monkey Punch manga. Not one that just superficially lifts the sex and violence, but one that's made with the mindset that Monkey Punch had when he drew & wrote Lupin stuff (making "careless fun stories with crazy non-detailed art" as he has actually said himself, though maybe not with that exact wording). I know some people here disliked it, but I think something like episode 5 (possibly the most 'Lupin-esque' episode) with even more funny and loose drawings, less detailed/semi-realistic designs and maybe faster pacing would be a good example of that.

But then, now that I think about it, perhaps such a show airing late at night would not pull in the ratings too well. I could see "Lupin with shoujo-esque aesthetics and an elegant tone" being more appealing to late night viewers than Monkey Punch-style. They could still try though.

 

[BocoDragon]

Well, I have to say that after seeing the final episode, I have to say that I dislike it a less lot then I thought. Simply because

Spoiler

Fujiko is just Fujiko, and always has been. The "origin story" was a total red herring. The whole thing is just some extraordinary wierdness like Mystery of Mamo, or whatever... and I don't ultimately mind that

.

 

[Gutsy Frog]

The difference is that Mamo was weird in a way that allowed you to just sit back and go "haha, what the hell?". Here the weirdness was pretty specifically designed to be disturbing and make the viewer uncomfortable.

Still, perhaps the fact that they didn't

Spoiler

go as far as to say "Fujiko is like this because THIS horrible thing happened in her childhood" will probably make it easier for me to just look back and enjoy certain episodes. It felt pretty manipulative to me how they implied it, however.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Just finished the series today. Terrible terrible show. Well at least the TV ratings bombed after ep 8 when people realized how bad the show really is. Here's hoping the next TV series if we ever get one will be better, not that it will take much effort to do so.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

Just finished this up last night. Horrible, in my opinion. A true letdown.

They had everything in place to be amazing: Awesome character designs, unique and impressive art style, great music...But the story arc was just flat out horrible.

I wasn't even mad at the owl character designs! But maybe relegated to just 1 episode or perhaps a 2-parter as some sort of crazy rival thief gang or something...

Ugh...I hope they do another, but don't let that person write it.

 

[SolidusDave]

For me, most episodes were pretty great, with an ok main-story arc.
Mainly watched for the awesome art style, cool/crazy characters and the somewhat more "adult" themes contained in the stand-alone episodes.

Kinda don't get the hate. Maybe because I had zero exposure to Lupin *shrugs*

 

[checkeredknight]

What do we have here? It certainly looks like Koike Lupin may well be returning very soon for a TV Special. Yearly TV Specials have been a Lupin tradition for some time now, so it comes to no surprise we could well be seeing another one this Christmas. What is slightly more surprising however, is that we have the style from the recent spin-off series returning along with Mine Fujiko taking the spotlight.

What does everyone think?

Source.

EDIT - It appears the other main female character could well be a bizarre cross-over from this live action move. The footnotes of the teaser site back up this claim, reading "「エージェント・マロリー」×「ルパン三世」 illustration:TAKESHI KOIKE" How very strange; I wonder if the cross-over movie is bigger in Japan and the US than it is here?

 

[ZoddGutts]

Not interested if it has the same staff from the TV series.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Now that is a surprise. I hope they don't bring Mari Okada this time around. And I wonder who'll be directing.

 

[Blader]

For me, most episodes were pretty great, with an ok main-story arc.
Mainly watched for the awesome art style, cool/crazy characters and the somewhat more "adult" themes contained in the stand-alone episodes.

Kinda don't get the hate. Maybe because I had zero exposure to Lupin *shrugs*

These are basically my thoughts, word for word. I thought it was just a (mostly) fun show even if I cared very little about the overarching story with Fujiko and the owls.

 

[checkeredknight]

I rapidly lost interest in the TV series despite loving pretty much everything else the franchise has offered in the past forty years. If this is indeed a Haywire - Lupin crossover, I'm hoping it'll be a lot more fun and exciting than the spin-off series (which went along with a slow plod if you ask me.) Plenty of action. Plenty of suspense. Plenty of Lupin being Lupin. We're all good.

Has anyone actually seen Haywire? What was it like? Would it fit well alongside Lupin and co?

 

[Ninjimbo]

If Koike is involved, I'll watch it.

 

[duckroll]

Erm, it helps to be able to read the stuff you're sourcing from (and to link to an actual article instead of making me go look for the source news itself myself ).

There is no announcement for anything. Haywire is opening in Japan next week, and they're just getting a collaboration promo push using Fujiko. It's just a guest illustration piece by Koike to use Fujiko (since the BD-box came out this week) to help cross promote the movie's opening.

This is the original article: http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/entertainment/cinema/cnews/20120919-OYT8T00579.htm

Smh at making up bullshit. I thought you guys are better than this!

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Smh at making up bullshit. I thought you guys are better than this!

Blame Check, not me!

I want to see Shinichiro Watanabe direct a new TV special. That, or maybe Masaaki Osumi, one last time.

 

[duckroll]

I want to see Shinichiro Watanabe direct a new TV special.

He should have teamed with Koike to make an action and comedy packed Lupin series instead of the piece of turd we got.

 

[Lafiel]

Not interested if it has the same staff from the TV series.

I think I'd watch a new lupin as long as sorely koike is involved. No yamamoto plz.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Humor packed, you mean. Watanabe would probably adhere to the opening Green Jacket directorial style more than anyone other than Osumi. And that would mean a lot of clever writing, low-key plots, and other stylistic quirks he used for Cowboy Bebop. Seijun Suzuki ought to direct a new TV special some time, too. His irreverent style would make for something rather interesting.

 

[checkeredknight]

This is the original article: http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/entertainment/cinema/cnews/20120919-OYT8T00579.htm

Smh at making up bullshit. I thought you guys are better than this!

Sorry, I got excited! I guess I'm just not as resourceful as you. So, this is simply hype for some promo illustrations by Koike? Bummer. Interestingly though, a 2012 "TV Special" OST has come up for pre-order on Amazon.

 

[duckroll]

Sorry, I got excited! I guess I'm just not as resourceful as you. So, this is simply hype for some promo illustrations by Koike? Bummer. Interestingly though, a 2012 "TV Special" OST has come up for pre-order on Amazon.

See, this is better news than what you previously posted! At least it's something.

 

[checkeredknight]

Looks like the Amazon listing was right!

There's a new TV special hitting Japan this November. Interestingly, it looks like Lupin is back in the central role and the red jacket is making a triumphant return. Hopefully it'll be a little less like 2010 special, The Last Job and more like the 2011 special, Eternal Mermaid. Thoughts?

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Yawn. It'll probably be like Eternal Mermaid, I guess. My time's more devoted to Ashita no Joe these days.

 

[checkeredknight]

Shame. I've not seen one good thing written about this special so far. I see people wanting an extension of Mine Fujiko with a short story following Oscar, and others wanting something with Lupin as the main role but for it to be as edgy as the spin-off series.

Personally, I like the look of things. Judging by the screenshots, it looks a little like the green jacket material with a clean animation style (such as Eternal Mermaid.) I'm very happy to see Lupin as the starring role and I'm looking forward to hearing the Yuji Ohno theme once more. I think most people are concerned about the new female side character introduced in some of the screenshots. Lupin specials are quite infamous for having many one shot female characters who, for the most part, are thoroughly uninteresting and only included for the sake of the plot. I'm fully expecting that to happen again here, which is a bit of a shame. Hopefully Lupin and co will make up for things though, which they usually do IMO.

 

[isny]

LTTP, where can this be watched if you're not in Japan or the U.S.?

 

[isny]

What country are you in?

Canada.

 

[dimb]

Canada.

Does the Funimation site really not work for Canadians? I don't really know.

Either way you're better off staying away.

 

[isny]

Does the Funimation site really not work for Canadians? I don't really know.

Either way you're better off staying away.

Nope, but good to know. I'm going through the first series now that was just recently released and wanted to see how close the new one was to the one from the 70's.