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Mad Men - Season 7, Part 2 - The End of an Era - AMC Sundays

CaptainABAB

CaptainABAB

Member
Count me in as one of those who did not find the end cynical but hopeful. I'm not expecting Don to ever become "worlds greatest dad/husband" but I think he will be a somewhat better person going forward. The same applies to the other major characters on the show. Nobody is perfect, everyone is ok. Except Harry Crane.

I'm really going to miss this show.
 
R

Raitosaito

Member
Weiner straight up says "I love Don." in quite a few interviews.

I have a feeling that the ending is a reflection of Weiner's love for Don, and wanting him to be in a better place.
 
T

The One Who Knocks

Member
I've left it awhile to comment as my feelings are very divided on the episode. On the one hand, I loved all of the moments which revolves around Don in the episode, and what the episode chose to end on, but felt almost everything else within the episode was extremely lacking, unlike Mad Men, and felt cheap as if it was poorly written fan service. The drama within New York felt rushed and wish-fulfilling with a host of characters meeting up and interacting as if they themselves were aware their lives would come to an end at the conclusion of the episode, and the quality of how the interactions were written felt notably lower than Mad Men has been in the past. Sepinwall noted that Mad Men, much like Breaking Bad, could have been seen to end in the penultimate episode if the viewer desired, and I think that is where I am with this episode, I felt that the conclusion for every character (perhaps excluding Don, but even still him sitting at the bus stop without knowledge of his future would have been alright given the context) in the fantastic penultimate episode was far truer to the world created in Mad Men, even if less optimistic. While I highly enjoyed how Don's arc was concluded and how much it left for discussion (the implications of him creating the Coke advertisement and what it meant for his self-fulfilment), I think I vastly would have preferred had we never seen another character in New York (for Don's phone calls, perhaps merely having had the voice of the recipient or having these be our only connection to/viewing of the other characters) and it simply centred on the retreat (but I find myself wondering is this merely because I felt Don's meditation followed by the Coke ad such a strong conclusion that I wouldn't wish to have lost it had the previous episode even the last, or do I genuinely feel the drama there was good enough to sustain an entire episode which would have been very unlike anything Mad Men had ever done). I very much think I'll need to reflect further on the episode, but I came away very divided (very much disliking everything not related to Don, enjoying the Don drama, and loving the concluding two minutes [not the montage] featuring Don on the cliff with the group and the Coke ad).

Regarding the ending itself, I find myself more on the side that the moment with Leonard and on the cliff was very much a genuine moment of realisation for Don, and that his creation of the advertisement came from a true feeling of his than viewing it with the utmost cynicism in thinking that all he received from his entire journey was an idea for an advertisement (even if I accept it as a valid interpretation, it is not one I can accept given all that came before it and, importantly, the selfless hug given to Leonard from somebody who, before, viewed displays of emotion in a very negative fashion).
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Blader said:
Sunday night, my conclusion when the finale was done was that I liked most of the episode but Don's ending left me a little cool on it. I got the juxtaposition of his meditation and the Coke ad, but thought the editing was a bit abrupt and jarring. Also, frankly, a lot of the historical context of the ad was lost on me -- I knew the ad, have seen/heard it before, but never knew it was THAT big a deal.

But two days later I still haven't been able to stop thinking about the ending and all its implications, and now I just completely love it. It's not my favorite ending ever, but it's my favorite kind of ending: cynicism masked as optimism. I love what it means for Don's self-discovery, I love what it means as a resolution to his arc and the triumph of Don over Dick Whitman, and I love it as basically a 90-second encapsulation of everything Don Draper was and everything the show has ever tried to say.

So yeah, I like it a lot more now.
Click to expand...

I'm roughly Kevin's age on the show. So I was 5-6 when that ad debuted.

It was on the air everywhere, and for a very long time (years, I assume).
(EDIT: It did, and another Christmas version was aired in the later 70s)

It was a very, very, very big thing.

The second it started playing a recognized it.

I love the ending too. I didn't "get" that it was Don's ad at first, just thought it was a juxtaposition of a commercial sentiment with his supposed enlightenment-- and it works that way too.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
- Tom & Lorenzo: First and Last Looks at Mad Men
X7FiH8n.jpg


ADAWjg5.jpg


cagXT40.jpg
Click to expand...
More via the link.

Mad Style isn't done cooking yet, but I'd guess it'll be up today or tomorrow.
 
S

StopMakingSense

Member
World SkiFree said:
Him commercializing his hippy dippy, communal experience is masterful. Turning an extremely anti-corporate experiene into a profitable ad. A great way to close. The Don cycle continues but what a high note to end on! Just my take, of course ...
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He wasn't at a hippy commune. He was at a self-help retreat. Don paid to be there. I don't see Don finding peace with himself and finding his ad cynical at all. (This was right at the beginning of the self-help movement of the 70s)

The retreat in itself was a commercial venture.
 
D

Dany

Banned
CaptainABAB said:
Final Mad Style:
http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/05/mad-style-person-to-person/
Click to expand...

The red/white shit is breaking my MIND

This put their relationship in a little more context for us. We always wondered why Don showed up on the Psych Ward and willed Peggy out of that bed. What was it about her that he would forge such a deep connection with her? The simple fact is that Don has a history of trying to rescue women in deep pain. We always assumed he saw something of himself in Peggy – which, to be fair, he did – but we think he’s always tried to rescue women (usually mothers) in trouble because he spent his life waiting for his mother to walk through the door and she never did. Peggy stands out – and became so important to him – because she’s one of the few who didn’t hate him for his rescue and the only one who picked up and moved on, gaining his deep respect.
Click to expand...

tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif
 
L

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
I really hope Tom and Lorenzo end up doing another Mad Style-like series for something else, but I'm having a lot of trouble coming up with another show where costumes are so important.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
lamaroo said:
I really hope Tom and Lorenzo end up doing another Mad Style-like series for something else, but I'm having a lot of trouble coming up with another show where costumes are so important.
Click to expand...
The Americansssssssss

It's also the best show on TV now that mad men is over as well.
 
L

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
-Pyromaniac- said:
The Americansssssssss

It's also the best show on TV now that mad men is over as well.
Click to expand...

Rectify though

I enjoyed season one of The Americans but it didn't blow me away, then I fell behind when season two started and was too lazy to catch up, but maybe I should get back into it.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
lamaroo said:
Rectify though

I enjoyed season one of The Americans but it didn't blow me away, then I fell behind when season two started and was too lazy to catch up, but maybe I should get back into it.
Click to expand...
I'd classify season 1 as entertaining and promising but season 2 and then 3 straight up cement it.
 
W

World SkiFree

Member
StopMakingSense said:
He wasn't at a hippy commune. He was at a self-help retreat. Don paid to be there. I don't see Don finding peace with himself and finding his ad cynical at all. (This was right at the beginning of the self-help movement of the 70s)

The retreat in itself was a commercial venture.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, although I think we are splitting hairs. Even modern, commercial self-help ventures can be deemed hippy dippy. No braided hair and beads needed.

All this self-help led to Don coming up with a great ad. I don't seem him finding peace or being enlightened at all personally. I can certainly accept that I am 180 degrees wrong according to the show creators, but my interpretation of the ending is cynical. I think he tried to "find himself" and failed. He did find an idea for a memorable ad though. To me, at least.
 
O

Opto

Banned
I get why people are saying the ending is cynical, but I'd argue against it. For his entire advertising career, Don's been selling a feeling he never had, something he himself desired even if he did have the American man's dream at that point in time.

Don's finally washed away that urge to run away. He's selling a feeling he actually has now. yeah it's used for advertising, but shit, everything needs advertising. The reason this show survived was advertising. Plus the fact that people still love this ad mean it's beyond just selling Coke.
 
W

World SkiFree

Member
Opto said:
I get why people are saying the ending is cynical, but I'd argue against it. For his entire advertising career, Don's been selling a feeling he never had, something he himself desired even if he did have the American man's dream at that point in time.

Don's finally washed away that urge to run away. He's selling a feeling he actually has now. yeah it's used for advertising, but shit, everything needs advertising. The reason this show survived was advertising. Plus the fact that people still love this ad mean it's beyond just selling Coke.
Click to expand...
I like your read on it. I don't think my interpretation reflects enough on Don's previous pitches. I think I just like the idea of him cashing in on his experience.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
Opto said:
I get why people are saying the ending is cynical, but I'd argue against it. For his entire advertising career, Don's been selling a feeling he never had, something he himself desired even if he did have the American man's dream at that point in time.

Don's finally washed away that urge to run away. He's selling a feeling he actually has now. yeah it's used for advertising, but shit, everything needs advertising. The reason this show survived was advertising. Plus the fact that people still love this ad mean it's beyond just selling Coke.
Click to expand...

Ok, so let's go back to the very beginning here. In the Carousel pitch, the first really solid Don pitch we see, is he not selling a feeling he actually had? Or at least, that we have as much evidence of him having as we do of the "buy the world a coke" feeling, anyway.

Does he not express things in that pitch that make perfect sense as things that Don *should* care about when it comes to his family?

And yet, it didn't last. Why should this time be any different? Don runs away, he goes on a bender, and then he has a moment of inspiration that wows everyone into giving him another chance over and over again. He's nearly destroyed every incarnation of Sterling Cooper he was a part of, and then clawed his way back only to do it again.

I don't get what anyone sees in this that makes anyone think it's any different. Someone commented that Weiner has said he "loves Don," but that doesn't mean Weiner's trying to save him in the bottom of the ninth. It means that Weiner loves Don's flaws to the point that he sees them as inescapable qualities of the character.

The only difference this time is we'll never know how he fucked it up.
 
W

World SkiFree

Member
maharg said:
Ok, so let's go back to the very beginning here. In the Carousel pitch, the first really solid Don pitch we see, is he not selling a feeling he actually had? Or at least, that we have as much evidence of him having as we do of the "buy the world a coke" feeling, anyway.

Does he not express things in that pitch that make perfect sense as things that Don *should* care about when it comes to his family?

And yet, it didn't last. Why should this time be any different? Don runs away, he goes on a bender, and then he has a moment of inspiration that wows everyone into giving him another chance over and over again. He's nearly destroyed every incarnation of Sterling Cooper he was a part of, and then clawed his way back only to do it again.

I don't get what anyone sees in this that makes anyone think it's any different. Someone commented that Weiner has said he "loves Don," but that doesn't mean Weiner's trying to save him in the bottom of the ninth. It means that Weiner loves Don's flaws to the point that he sees them as inescapable qualities of the character.

The only difference this time is we'll never know how he fucked it up.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I love Don too. But I love Don being Don! What's not to love about that Don? ;)
 
O

Opto

Banned
maharg said:
Ok, so let's go back to the very beginning here. In the Carousel pitch, the first really solid Don pitch we see, is he not selling a feeling he actually had? Or at least, that we have as much evidence of him having as we do of the "buy the world a coke" feeling, anyway.

Does he not express things in that pitch that make perfect sense as things that Don *should* care about when it comes to his family?

And yet, it didn't last. Why should this time be any different? Don runs away, he goes on a bender, and then he has a moment of inspiration that wows everyone into giving him another chance over and over again. He's nearly destroyed every incarnation of Sterling Cooper he was a part of, and then clawed his way back only to do it again.

I don't get what anyone sees in this that makes anyone think it's any different. Someone commented that Weiner has said he "loves Don," but that doesn't mean Weiner's trying to save him in the bottom of the ninth. It means that Weiner loves Don's flaws to the point that he sees them as inescapable qualities of the character.

The only difference this time is we'll never know how he fucked it up.
Click to expand...
I think he's different because of how the retreat situation played out for him. He literally can't run away anymore. He's stuck and he has to freaking deal with it and he can't. He breaks downs completely and there's hints that Don's going to kill himself (Jumping Off Point ).

But then he's faced with Leonard, who expresses a hurt Don has never been able to. Leonard isn't Don, but they had some resonance. Don's carefully constructed "perfect man" was never one to do this kind of self-reflection, to admit a weakness or ask himself if he had a flaw that was the reason for his unhappiness.

Tom and Lorenzo make great outfit analyses, but I think they're off the mark on the last scene with Don. He's wearing the closest thing to hippie garb that he has. Don's not going to ask for a tye-dye shirt, but he finally looks like he's not actively fighting looking like the rest of everyone else at the retreat.

So yeah, I think Don's changed. Finally.

Edit: I just realized I'm going to miss talking about this show.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
Fjordson said:
Seems like he's supporting the non-cynical takes also. That it wasn't just about the cycle starting over for Don or about him creating a good ad. There was some sort of personal growth at that retreat. Nice.
Click to expand...

I don't think it really contradicts the 'cynical' ending people are actually suggesting. Don can be having a moment of genuine reflection, and the ad can come from good intentions on his part, but it doesn't mean he's ended his cycle or that there isn't a cynical aspect to the ad itself (which there is, imo, regardless of anything in Mad Men).

It's obvious that Weiner has a more positive impression of that ad than some other people (including me) do, though. Perhaps that's the crux of the disagreement.
 
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