• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Mad Men - Season 7, Part 2 - The End of an Era - AMC Sundays

It's obvious that Weiner has a more positive impression of that ad than some other people (including me) do, though. Perhaps that's the crux of the disagreement.

That's how I read it. He doesn't seem to like that people are calling the ad itself Corny.

I mean, it's been around since before I was born, and I don't know if there's ever been a period in my life where it wasn't regarded as super-corny. I don't know that I'm all that cynical a person, either. But it's kind of a long walk to connect Don Draper to that ad and have the ad still come off as a pure creative expression. Even if it wasn't considered corny before, the fact the show is suggesting that it's just another in a well-intentioned-yet-surface-level fabrication sorta reduces the deeper meaning it might have. Hell, using it as a plot point in the story itself does that.
 

Opto

Banned
What was the line from Pima Ryan "All art is selling something?"

Oh my god, Stan and Peggy can have a threesome with her now!
 

maharg

idspispopd
That's how I read it. He doesn't seem to like that people are calling the ad itself Corny.

I mean, it's been around since before I was born, and I don't know if there's ever been a period in my life where it wasn't regarded as super-corny. I don't know that I'm all that cynical a person, either. But it's kind of a long walk to connect Don Draper to that ad and have the ad still come off as a pure creative expression. Even if it wasn't considered corny before, the fact the show is suggesting that it's just another in a well-intentioned-yet-surface-level fabrication sorta reduces the deeper meaning it might have. Hell, using it as a plot point in the story itself does that.

I don't really understand his use of the word corny, tbh. I don't find the ad corny. And I think, honestly, that he's right about some of the positives of it within the framework of, well, capitalist society. That is, it is an improvement on the status quo, but it is not in any way a real break from it. I think that's even meant in earnest within that context. And that's a word I'd use to describe the ad, personally.

But the ad is still very much about selling a product by hijacking real struggles that can't actually be solved with a bottle of Coke. And it's about turning a movement into an image and a generation (one of the 'largest' and most influential generations ever) into a target.

It can be, and probably is, both these things at once. Just like Don can be having a real moment of revelation and be using that to get him through to his next high.

And I also think that Weiner can believe he's left Don in a positive place, but that Don would still fall down again off camera.
 

Fjordson

Member
I don't think it really contradicts the 'cynical' ending people are actually suggesting. Don can be having a moment of genuine reflection, and the ad can come from good intentions on his part, but it doesn't mean he's ended his cycle or that there isn't a cynical aspect to the ad itself (which there is, imo, regardless of anything in Mad Men).

It's obvious that Weiner has a more positive impression of that ad than some other people (including me) do, though. Perhaps that's the crux of the disagreement.
I just meant Don in particular. That Don saw something positive in the ad.

The ad in a more general sense, sure. Can't say personally, I was born way way after that came out so I don't know how it was received back then.
 

I'm fine with admitting that I misread his intent. Viewing the Coke ad from a modern perspective, it's just kind of hard not to view that it cynically. I can see how it could be viewed as touching and beautiful from a contemporary perspective, though.

I still think it's likely that Don doesn't stay very long at McCann. I'd guess that the Coke ad is his swan song in advertising. I could see him going back to McCann specifically to make that ad, and then leaving shortly afterward.
 
Finally watched - liked but didn't love the ending, thought it was a little rough of a cut into the Coke ad but I liked how it went.

Really didn't like what happened with Peggy though - didn't feel like it was earned or the most interesting turn for her path to take.
 

Vyer

Member
Yeah, it seems that the less cynical path is what Weiner was intending. Though it's clearly still open and different people can take something different with them when it's over, which is part of what makes it so solid.

I can't believe I didn't realize that was Helen Slater in the episode.
 

bsb

Neo Member
Yeah if anybody still thinks it was ambiguous, Weiner straight up tells you that Don made the Coke ad.

Did he say something more on this that THP didn't quote? Because this is the quote the article supplies under the heading of Yes, Don Draper created the Coke ad: "I have never been clear, and I have always been able to live with ambiguities," said Weiner. "In the abstract, I did think, why not end this show with the greatest commercial ever made? In terms of what it means to people and everything, I am not ambiguity for ambiguity's sake. But it was nice to have your cake and eat it too, in terms of what is advertising, who is Don and what is that thing?"

I'm not following how they get from "I'm comfortable with ambiguity" to "Don definitely made that Coke ad"...? Is there a more complete transcript out there?
 

Alpende

Member
Wow, I forgot how much of a douche Stan looked at first. Harry didn't change much and Pete went from slimy weasel to family man.
 

stn

Member
I'm not following how they get from "I'm comfortable with ambiguity" to "Don definitely made that Coke ad"...? Is there a more complete transcript out there?
"Five years before that, black people and white people couldn't even be in an ad together! And the idea that someone in an enlightened state might have created something that's very pure — yeah, there's soda in there with a good feeling, but that ad to me is the best ad ever made, and it comes from a very good place."

Enlightened state refers to Don. This particular quote is also a response to people who were arguing that Don creating the ad is very cynical. On a general note, I've held the same feeling that Weiner seems to have wanted to portray. I think Don, even accepting his role as Don, is a positive. Accepting that he's a great ad-man is progress for the character at the end of the day, as he was always torn between both of his identities. Don tried to become Dick Whitman again, it didn't work. He realized he had lost everything. So he went back to being Don but without the burden of attachment.

I think this show always portrays progress in a way that does not immediately convey positive feelings. Take Joan, for example. She gives up a life of love in pursuit of her work. One could argue that she's throwing herself back into the endless corporate cycle in pursuit of "bigger and better". But one could also argue that she's finally getting her personal fulfillment that she feels she's been due for a long time.

Progress in this show seems to be defined as finding satisfaction and contentment within circumstances that are not ideal.
 
All I know is that I'm in for whatever Weiner will be working on next. Day one.

Personally, I would love to see his take on 80s Wall Street.
I totally stole this idea from a gaffer :p
 

someday

Banned
I finally watched the finale and I loved it. I was born in 1970 so I didn't see the ad as cynical or anything at all. That ad was HUGE and to this day I can still hear the chorus and sing along to that song. The smile that crept onto Don's face during his "ommmmms" and the cut to the ad made it pretty evident that this was his magnum opus. He went back to Mcann and created this. I was ok with this ending for Don and the ambiguity over what his future looks like.

I also was good with the endings for the rest of the group. I half expected Pete's plane to crash but I'm glad that didn't happen.

Glad Joan isn't with that dude anymore. He sorta sucked and she can do much better.

Happy enough with Peggy and Stan. It makes sense. There was always a connection between the two and I had wondered if they'd ever have a go.

I'm sad for Betty but well, I suppose someone had to get cancer from the bunch. I'm glad that she stopped Don from trying to swoop in and take the boys. I get that he's their father but he'll go on seeing them when it fits his schedule and they'll still have normal lives.

Anyway, great show. I still believe that I would have loved this even more if they hadn't split up the last season. I have felt disconnected from the ending and re-watching 7A just wasn't on the table. I suppose I'll, some day in the future, sit down and rewatch the entire show but ain't nobody got time for that right now. AMC could have had a lot more fuss over this if they hadn't dragged it out so long.
 
I don't think it really contradicts the 'cynical' ending people are actually suggesting. Don can be having a moment of genuine reflection, and the ad can come from good intentions on his part, but it doesn't mean he's ended his cycle or that there isn't a cynical aspect to the ad itself (which there is, imo, regardless of anything in Mad Men).

It's obvious that Weiner has a more positive impression of that ad than some other people (including me) do, though. Perhaps that's the crux of the disagreement.

I always associated the cynicism to Don creating an ad from his experience, not with the ad itself or the ad being perceived as corny. I found it was rather amusing as someone who didn't necessarily want Don to turn "good." Also, I guess I didn't see where Wiener suggests that the Don cycle ends with the finale. Maybe I need to read his comments again.

Finally watched - liked but didn't love the ending, thought it was a little rough of a cut into the Coke ad but I liked how it went.

Really didn't like what happened with Peggy though - didn't feel like it was earned or the most interesting turn for her path to take.

A few folks have mentioned the rough editing in the final scene, the transition to the Coke ad. I tend to agree, seems like it could have been tighter or more gracefully handled. Felt a little unfinished or something.

As for Peggy, I find myself siding with the perception of Peggy and Stan being more like siblings. I loved their relationship and exchanges but I don't view them getting together as a payoff or anything.

Joan's ending was stronger although I do think it was a bit too tidy of a break with Captain Pike. Wish they could've hinted that they were both a little hesitant about breaking it off. Didn't feel natural or consistent with the characters' previous interactions. Just a hint of possible reconciliation would've been a nice touch. Ambiguous, but nice.
 
She writes for Grantland.

It's right there in her twitter bio.

hell, the tweet 2nd from the top on her stream as of right now is the word "Grantland"
 
- Deadline: ‘Mad Men’ Series Finale Hits Viewership & 25-54 Highs In Live+3 Results
AMC said that they weren’t going to be talking ratings for the end of the Matthew Weiner drama until the Live+3 numbers came in. And despite that very serious look on Don Draper’s meditating face, they are probably really glad today that they did. While May 17 finale of Mad Men hit season-ender demo and viewership highs in Live+Same Day results, the Live+3 numbers have the much hyped and very heavily promoted departure jumping double-digits and breaking viewership and 25-54 demo records for the series.

With three days of DVR and other platform viewing now taken into account, Mad Men’s series finale drew 4.6 million total viewers. That’s a 41% rise from the Live + SD results. It’s also a 27% jump from the Live + 3 results of the midseason finale of May 25, 2014 and a 15% rise from the Live + 3 results of the Season 6 finale of June 23, 2013 in Live + 3. The previous Live + 3 viewership high for Mad Men was the Season 6 debut and its audience of 4.5 million. With that said, and with the strong viewership the Mad Men series finale got in the first place, the percentage jump of the end of the show was down from the 87% lift that the Season 7A finale viewership had in Live + 3 last year.
 
Wow.

Do yourself a favor and compare the final shot of the season premiere (well, season 7 part 1) and the final shot of the series.

Perfect. Next level planning and storytelling acumen.
 
I recall in Sepinwall's review of the series finale that Weiner was going to make his only public comments on the finale at some university talk or something. Did that happen?
 

oatmeal

Banned
Wow.

Do yourself a favor and compare the final shot of the season premiere (well, season 7 part 1) and the final shot of the series.

Perfect. Next level planning and storytelling acumen.

For those of us on mobile can you share your findings?

(EDIT)
Found it...for reference, Don is sitting on his balcony in the cold. Tired and unhappy breathing the cold air as the camera pulls back and through hte sliding door of his apartment. He's alone.
 
New Episode tonight.

don-draper.gif


We'll never know what happened to Glen
 
Top Bottom