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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?

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Maledict

Member
It's pretty normal opportunity cost evaluation, really. Making something a block means it's individually responsible for like 40% of your annual revenue. It's always gonna be worthwhile to steer away from previous failures on a margin like that because if you fail again then you blew a ton of cash on a trivially predictable mistake.

And to be clear, their standards for this aren't hugely high. In the 10 year planar era, it's only the two worst-polling planes they've done (#1 Kamigawa and #2 Lorwyn) that they've specifically said wouldn't clear the bar. That seems pretty legitimate.



People play new mechanics wrong in the pre-release window for every set ever, but all indications are that Aftermath isn't notably confusing and people are getting used to it like they got used to the original split cards. If it had the standard split card frame you'd still have people fucking up Failure >> Comply in Vintage ten years from now.

Yep, it makes absolutely no sense to go back to a plane that wasn't liked given their development cycle and how much rests on each set being a winner. They have an entire multiverse to explore - if they want to give those themes another go they can always create a new plane and try that, which escapes the baggage of the failed plane but gives them space to explore the same concept area.

(E.g. Rose water has spoken about going to a different Japanese style plane, and how a fairy tale plane wouldn't be llorwyn but might have some similar themes).
 

Ashodin

Member
It's often right in a lot of games to cycle Heaven for G just to cast Earth from the yard. I think that's the one that's less likely to be obvious to lower level players. It's the same way they'll hold onto an expensive card with cycling instead of just cycling it in the early to mid game.

Heaven // Earth is amazing in any limited deck really. If you can swing it, run it.
 

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Heaven // Earth is amazing in any limited deck really. If you can swing it, run it.

During pre-release it was my promo and holy hell was the card good. There's a lot of flyers in the format, so heaven is never truly bad, and the look on your opponents face when you heaven for 0 on their end step. Great stuff.
 

Maledict

Member
lorwyn always felt more like a fable than a fairy tale themed world, given a lack of humans altogether. Innistrad fits the latter much more.

almost wrote fairy tail lol

Oh yes definitely - they aren't the same thing, and Rosewaters been clear on that. The fairy tale world has *some* of the same beats (a whimsical side to some stuff), but unlike the Japanese themed plane we eventually go to it's not going to be there because they want another shot at something.

I just mentioned it because it does have some crossover stuff, and rosewater has said there's some thematic stuff. But fairy tale won't just be a fixed version of Llorwyn.
 

Ashodin

Member
During pre-release it was my promo and holy hell was the card good. There's a lot of flyers in the format, so heaven is never truly bad, and the look on your opponents face when you heaven for 0 on their end step. Great stuff.

I wonder if I'll open it at my GP Richmond sealed pool.
 
Oh yes definitely - they aren't the same thing, and Rosewaters been clear on that. The fairy tale world has *some* of the same beats (a whimsical side to some stuff), but unlike the Japanese themed plane we eventually go to it's not going to be there because they want another shot at something.

I just mentioned it because it does have some crossover stuff, and rosewater has said there's some thematic stuff. But fairy tale won't just be a fixed version of Llorwyn.
That said I'm not sure they can make a set that manages to distance itself from both lorwyn and Innistrad enough. Wrt a japanese set, I'm not looking forward to the current wotc's take on it given the generic feel of Amonkhet and Kaladesh. For all the failings of Kamigawa as a card game the world they created was amazing within.
Boobs+hips are not nearly big enough on Lorwyn's fae to be fairy tail lol
Don't remind me, manga had promise before it turned into all fanservice 24/7
 
I would like a remake of Kamigawa where the cards aren't so bad. They had some great names for the Kami in particular, they deserve to be better cards.
 
Wasn't part of the problem the fact that kami names all sounded similar to each other?

I dunno, I think Seizan, Perverter of Truth is way more distinctive than Griselbrand, and if you reversed the mechanical portions of the two cards I'd probably be happier, because the first sounds way more fitting for that sort of ridiculous block than the second.

He Who Hungers; Hikari, Twilight Guardian; The Unspeakable; Arashi, the Sky Asunder; Kagemaro, First to Suffer, etc. all work fine for me as names/concepts, they're just garbage cards mechanically. Then again, maybe I'm just weeb enough. (Along with probably a solid half their target audience, though...)
 

Yeef

Member
I dunno, I think Seizan, Perverter of Truth is way more distinctive than Griselbrand, and if you reversed the mechanical portions of the two cards I'd probably be happier, because the first sounds way more fitting for that sort of ridiculous block than the second.

He Who Hungers; Hikari, Twilight Guardian; The Unspeakable; Arashi, the Sky Asunder; Kagemaro, First to Suffer, etc. all work fine for me as names/concepts, they're just garbage cards mechanically. Then again, maybe I'm just weeb enough. (Along with probably a solid half their target audience, though...)
The problem with Kamigawa names is that, in a vacuum, they're fine, but when there's a million of them they all sound the same and run together.
 
The problem with Kamigawa names is that, in a vacuum, they're fine, but when there's a million of them they all sound the same and run together.

Oh, yeah, they definitely created too many of them. I get they wanted to do a "Legendary is a Tribal" theme with Kamigawa, but having maybe a third of as many big-name Kami as they did wouldn't have been a terrible idea.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
lorwyn always felt more like a fable than a fairy tale themed world, given a lack of humans altogether. Innistrad fits the latter much more.

almost wrote fairy tail lol

Fairy Tail
1RG
Sorcery
Target creature you control fights target creature you don't control. If the creature you don't control would die this turn, if that creature is hot and/or cool, instead gain control of that creature.

(I think sigmasonic came up with that joke a billion threads ago but its hilarious)
 
Fairy Tail
1RG
Sorcery
Target creature you control fights target creature you don't control. If the creature you don't control would die this turn, if that creature is hot and/or cool, instead gain control of that creature.
Sounds about right.


Natsu Dragneel 2R

Legendary Creature - Dragonslayer, Demon or whatever I forgot

If a spell or ability would deal damage to Natsu instead Natsu eats that ability or spell and gets +X/+X where X is how much Natsu needs to curbstomp his opponent
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Sounds about right.


Natsu Dragneel 2R

Legendary Creature - Dragonslayer, Demon or whatever I forgot

If a spell or ability would deal damage to Natsu instead Natsu eats that ability or spell and gets +X/+X where X is how much Natsu needs to curbstomp his opponent

Natsu Dragneel
RRR
Legendary Creature - Human Demon Dragon

Protection from Girls
Nakama (if this creature would die and you control another creature with Nakama, exile it instead. At the end of the turn, it to the battlefield).
Whenever another creature you control with Nakama leaves the battlefield, Natsu deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is Natsu's power.
4/3
 
Wasn't part of the problem the fact that kami names all sounded similar to each other?

I dunno, I think Seizan, Perverter of Truth is way more distinctive than Griselbrand

Yeah, but the fifteenth most distinctive creature name in Innistrad is gonna be something super memorable and the fifteenth most distinctive Kamigawa creature is something you'd need a guide to pick out -- especially because the illustrations all look the same as well.

weebs + magic = ??

white guy all pronouncing "counsel of the so-ra-tah-mehhhhhhh" at me at the prerelease
 
Yeah, but the fifteenth most distinctive creature name in Innistrad is gonna be something super memorable and the fifteenth most distinctive Kamigawa creature is something you'd need a guide to pick out -- especially because the illustrations all look the same as well.

Oh, yeah, the art is just not good, don't get me wrong. The names and lore are pretty cool, but all of the actual "card" parts of them are just awful.

Lorwyn, on the other hand, doesn't have anything I'd want to salvage. Kithkin can die in a fire.
 
Oh, yeah, the art is just not good, don't get me wrong. The names and lore are pretty cool, but all of the actual "card" parts of them are just awful.

Lorwyn, on the other hand, doesn't have anything I'd want to salvage. Kithkin can die in a fire.
I think I'm like the only person who likes Kithkin.

Obviously the Lorwyn ones, Shadowmoor's bug-eyed freaks belong in that fire.
 
One last Fairy Tail thing, past what the anime covers.

Spriggan Twelve (If this creature would deal lethal damage to an opponent, instead this creature sacrifices itself for NO REASON.)
 

red13th

Member
I honestly tried to like Fairy Tail but I basically grew up on One Piece and it felt so derivative. Gave up after a few volumes.
 

y2dvd

Member
Ever had a night where you constantly punted games away? Tonight was my night. I misplayed several times and went 1-3 augh.
 

Santiako

Member
Ever had a night where you constantly punted games away? Tonight was my night. I misplayed several times and went 1-3 augh.

Yeah, it's usually a snowballing thing. Once you start punting you get tilted which leads to more punts and so on. We've all had those days.
 
On the subject of the Masterpiece cards for Return to Dominaria Again, people have suggested using the old frames, but it occurs to me another direction would be to best recreate the base concept again. The old frames were meant to represent pages of a spell book, so maybe the Masterpiece frames could try that again. Black cards could by designed to look like they're printed on dried human skin, like the Necronomicon. Green cards could be on papyrus, etc.
 
I'd kind of like them to try something attractive and a bit understated for the next round of Ultra Rares. The Invocations are obviously a bit much, and honestly even the Masterpieces were really gaudy and only worked because of the art style of the setting. Let's maybe bring it back down to 11 for this next set.
 
On the subject of the Masterpiece cards for Return to Dominaria Again, people have suggested using the old frames, but it occurs to me another direction would be to best recreate the base concept again. The old frames were meant to represent pages of a spell book, so maybe the Masterpiece frames could try that again. Black cards could by designed to look like they're printed on dried human skin, like the Necronomicon. Green cards could be on papyrus, etc.

I like this idea.
 

DrArchon

Member
Return to Dominaria Masterpieces will be the old card frames but with new high quality digital art all featuring members of the Gatewatch. Fun for old and new fans of Magic!

No seriously, I have no idea what to expect. I just hope they end up being easier to read than the Invocations did. Don't know what the fuck they were thinking when they chose that typeface for the names and added superfluous hieroglyphics.
 

Santiako

Member
If the Dominaria masterpieces aren't exactly this:

JE7lZXl.jpg
hgeTzai.jpg


They will have failed miserably.

EDIT: Shit, double post, sorry.
 

Santiako

Member
Wizards' new format - 1v1 Commander for MODO- starts on May 10 with a big ass banlist:

Announcement

Banlist:

FAST MANA

Black Lotus
Channel
Fastbond
Gaea's Cradle
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Mishra's Workshop
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Sol Ring
Tolarian Academy

While mana acceleration is integral to many Commander decks, these cards accelerate mana too quickly and too early in the game, leading to uninteresting and uninteractive gameplay. Especially without the social pressure and political nature of multiplayer, these types of cards create runaway games at too high a rate.

COMBO ENABLERS

Bazaar of Baghdad
Doomsday
Entomb
Food Chain
Gifts Ungiven
Hermit Druid
Protean Hulk
Survival of the Fittest
Time Vault
Tinker
Yawgmoth's Bargain

There are a myriad of powerful combinations available in the format, but these types of cards are either essentially single-card combos (Hermit Druid milling your entire deck) or extremely efficient at enabling other combinations (Gifts Ungiven finding four cards that combine to win the game).

OPPRESSIVE COMMANDERS

Arcum Dagsson
Braids, Cabal Minion
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
Griselbrand
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
Zur the Enchanter

Each of these commanders is essentially a story in its own right, but the common thread is that they are nearly impossible to beat once they resolve. There's a great deal of consistency in being able to play your commander every game and being able to cast them again should they die. In some cases, this means the deck itself becomes too consistent and too powerful, and these are commanders that have shown that to be the case.

OTHER

Ancestral Recall
Back to Basics
Balance
Humility
Karakas
Library of Alexandria
Mana Drain
Mind Twist
Moat
Natural Order
Necropotence
Oath of Druids
Serra Ascendant
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Time Walk

This is a catch-all category of cards that are either blatantly too strong (Ancestral Recall, Time Walk), or are very strong but extremely unenjoyable to play against (Karakas, Mind Twist). As mentioned above, the threshold for banning cards is lower when they're particularly frustrating to play against. All the cards in that category are very strong, but the way they warp the format is less about creating imbalance and more about making the format less enjoyable overall.

MULTIPLAYER-POINTED BANS

Biorhythm
Limited Resources
Painter's Servant
Sensei's Divining Top
Trade Secrets
While this list leans toward 1v1, it will also support multiplayer Commander on Magic Online. These are the more egregious cards in that format that aren't covered under the above categories. Sensei's Divining Top may stand out among these; this is a logistical consideration for Magic Online multiplayer.

To note, this is the only banlist that will be used in MODO, even if you play 4 player games, so this seems kinda bad.
 
Obvious thing missing is Leovold.

They specifically noted they're gonna make big adjustments for a while until they feel the list is settled, so on a broad level I'm not sure there's really a problem. Question is more about specific changes to this starting point.
 

Santiako

Member
This leads to them taking over the banlist and doing the commander precons around it on the long term doesn't it?

Obvious thing missing is Leovold.

They specifically noted they're gonna make big adjustments for a while until they feel the list is settled, so on a broad level I'm not sure there's really a problem. Question is more about specific changes to this starting point.

Oloro and Vial Smasher as commander and Ad Nauseam, Primeval Titan, Prophet of Kruphix and Sylvan Primordial should definitely be on the list as well.
 
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