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Man films his own death: Chernobyl disaster, the first days of clean up inside

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Hari Seldon said:
In my Nuclear Physics class I had years ago they explained the reason why a Chernobyl style catastrophe could never happen anymore, and in fact was impossible to happen in western reactors at the time. I wish I remembered the science, but it had to do with the design of the fuel, the Soviets designed it for maximum power but it had like a positive feedback effect that could cause an explosion if the operators were not careful. The western fuel was designed with negative feedback, such that the fuel would burn itself out if left unattended - at the cost of less power.

But as someone who interned at American civilian plants, you guys would be amazed at how old the tech is. I'm talking like light bulbs instead of LEDs, vacuum tubes instead of ICs, that kind of thing. They need to build new ones.
yea from what I understand, it had to do with the design of the control rods that were tipped with graphite (increasing reactions before the rods could get in far enough to decrease reactions) and the positive effect that steam (the voids the bubbles cause) had, which added to the reactions instead of reducing them for long enough to blow the top.

but fuck man...when you turn off all the fucking safe-guards, transfer authority from computers to humans AND ignore the alarm sounds...as an untrained person...it feels like the only real lesson learned here is how a chain-reaction of stupidity can cause bigass disasters. if there hadn't been this caliber of abject incompetence in control, this shit simply would not have happened.

edit: wiki says:

  • The reactor had a dangerously large positive void coefficient. The void coefficient is a measurement of how a reactor responds to increased steam formation in the water coolant. Most other reactor designs have a negative coefficient, i.e. they attempt to decrease heat output when the vapor phase in the reactor increases, because if the coolant contains steam bubbles, fewer neutrons are slowed down. Faster neutrons are less likely to split uranium atoms, so the reactor produces less power (a negative feed-back). Chernobyl's RBMK reactor, however, used solid graphite as a neutron moderator to slow down the neutrons, and the water in it, on the contrary, acts like a harmful neutron absorber. Thus neutrons are slowed down even if steam bubbles form in the water. Furthermore, because steam absorbs neutrons much less readily than water, increasing the intensity of vaporization means that more neutrons are able to split uranium atoms, increasing the reactor's power output. This makes the RBMK design very unstable at low power levels, and prone to suddenly increasing energy production to a dangerous level. This behavior is counter-intuitive, and this property of the reactor was unknown to the crew.
  • A more significant flaw was in the design of the control rods that are inserted into the reactor to slow down the reaction. In the RBMK reactor design, the lower part of each control rod was made of graphite and was 1.3 meters shorter than necessary, and in the space beneath the rods were hollow channels filled with water. The upper part of the rod—the truly functional part that absorbs the neutrons and thereby halts the reaction—was made of boron carbide. With this design, when the rods are inserted into the reactor from the uppermost position, the graphite parts initially displace some coolant. This greatly increases the rate of the fission reaction, since graphite (in the RBMK) is a more potent neutron moderator (absorbs far fewer neutrons than the boiling light water). Thus for the first few seconds of control rod activation, reactor power output is increased, rather than reduced as desired. This behavior is counter-intuitive and was not known to the reactor operators.
  • Other deficiencies besides these were noted in the RBMK-1000 reactor design, as were its non-compliance with accepted standards and with the requirements of nuclear reactor safety.

Darklord said:
I don't understand how you can have tours of Chernobyl these days. Surely the radiation is still way too high?

I feel so sorry for the men in that video.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101213/ap_on_sc/eu_ukraine_chernobyl_tourism
 
But as someone who interned at American civilian plants, you guys would be amazed at how old the tech is. I'm talking like light bulbs instead of LEDs, vacuum tubes instead of ICs, that kind of thing. They need to build new ones.

Yep, it's 70's era technology. And it shows.

I've worked on digital upgrades for existing plants. It's an absolute nightmare. They sourced parts wherever they could find them, and because the industry has slowed down so much, they've had to scavenge parts from decommissioned/abandoned plants and adapt them for their plant. Makes it hard to come up with a 'template' to apply across the board.
 

Carlisle

Member
Disturbing shit all around. Reminds me of the Peace Memorial Museum in Hiroshima. Shit like halfway melted kids toys and tricycles. Imagery so subtle yet so powerful. If there is a god, we attempted to wield his power and failed in every way.
 

Javaman

Member
Interview with one of the engineers that was there during the explosion...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/aug/24/russia.health
* News
* World news
* Russia

How I survived Chernobyl

Sasha Yuvchenko was working at the power plant on the night of the world's worst nuclear disaster. One of his workmates was vaporised and three others died within weeks. Vivienne Parry hears his terrible tale

* Vivienne Parry
* The Guardian, Tuesday 24 August 2004

On April 25 1986, 24-year-old Sasha Yuvchenko clocked on as usual for the night shift at the Chernobyl power plant in northern Ukraine. It was a beautiful evening, particularly warm and clear, and Yuvchenko, an engineer-mechanic, and his workmates were full of their plans for the upcoming May Day holidays. At home, his wife, Natasha, was still up with their fretful two-year-old, Kirill.

On that fateful night, the water pumps in the newly commissioned No 4 reactor were being safety-tested. As the clock ticked past midnight, an argument was raging about the right power level at which to start the test. But what no one knew, thanks to years of error and cover up, was that there was a fatal flaw in the reactor design that made it unstable at low power levels. As power levels were lowered in preparation for the test, they dropped too low and the reactor ground to a halt. Meanwhile, unseen, a dangerous hot spot was building deep in the reactor.

To raise the power, the boron control rods were removed. It was like cocking a gun, and when, at 1.20am on April 26 1986, the test began and the turbines were turned off, the reactor was turned into a volcanic steam pressure cooker. Emergency shutdown procedures were started, but when the control rods were reinserted, their graphite tips caused the power levels to rise so dramatically that a portion of the reactor was destroyed. There were two explosions and the 500-tonne safety cap was blown off the reactor. It was the worst nuclear accident in history.

Yuvchenko, now 42, recalls what happened that terrible night 18 years ago. He is a bear of a man, 6ft 5in tall, and a former Soviet champion rower. You can't help but notice his left arm, which is half the size of his right and shiny with scar tissue. His wife, Natasha, sits nervously on the edge of her seat.

"There was a heavy thud," he says. "A couple of seconds later, I felt a wave come through the room. The thick concrete walls were bent like rubber. I thought war had broken out. We started to look for Khodemchuk (his colleague) but he had been by the pumps and had been vaporised. Steam wrapped around everything; it was dark and there was a horrible hissing noise. There was no ceiling, only sky; a sky full of stars." A stream of ionising radiation was shooting starwards, like a laser beam. "I remember thinking how beautiful it was."

Yuvchenko went with a party of men to recce the damaged reactor hall. He stayed outside, propping the heavy reactor hall door open with his shoulder. The three men who went in all died within two weeks. "You don't feel anything at the time," he explains. "We had no idea there was so much radiation. We met a guy with a doseometer and the needle was just off the dial. But even then, we were still only thinking 'Rats, this means the end of our careers in the nuclear industry. We all thought, 'We've been exposed now, this has happened on our watch' and set about doing what we could. After about an hour, I started to vomit uncontrollably. My throat was very sore."

By 6am, he could no longer walk. He was taken to the local hospital. Still he had no idea of the huge hit of radiation he'd received. "We were thinking we might have had 20, perhaps 50rem. But there was a man there who'd been involved in a nuclear accident in the submarine fleet, he said it was more serious than that. 'You don't vomit at 50,' he said."

At the hospital, they worked out (through measuring the fall in his white blood-cell count) that he'd received 410rem - or as it's now since been styled, 4.1Sv (one sievert is equal to 100rem) - a measure of the absorbed dose of radiation per kilogram of body weight. Four sieverts is lethal for half of those affected.
<snip>
 
Javaman said:
Interview with one of the engineers that was there during the explosion...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/aug/24/russia.health
so scary man.

I can't even imagine the kind of power that knocks a 500 ton cop skyward, blows the roof off a building and makes thick concrete walls bend.

and taking in 400+ roentgens. His body was on fire on the inside but he couldn't see or feel it. I just...it's the stuff nightmares are made of.
 

agrajag

Banned
At the risk of asking a dumb question... why do they call the people responsible for cleaning up and containing the fallout from Chernobyl bio-robots?
 
agrajag said:
At the risk of asking a dumb question... why do they call the people responsible for cleaning up and containing the fallout from Chernobyl bio-robots?
because they're people given mindless tasks and expected to perform them like robots.
 
MetalAlien said:
We still got 20,000 years before they can build on that site again, although the last reactor was only shut down in 2000. Plus they have found a new form of life inside reactor 4, pretty cool.

http://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2007/05/29/major-biological-discoveryinside-the-chernobyl-reactor/
venom.jpg


it begins.
 

Catshade

Member
agrajag said:
At the risk of asking a dumb question... why do they call the people responsible for cleaning up and containing the fallout from Chernobyl bio-robots?

From wiki:

The word robota means literally "work", "labor" or "corvée", "serf labor", and figuratively "drudgery" or "hard work" in Czech and many Slavic languages.
 

agrajag

Banned
I speak Russian, and while it's true that the word "robota" means work, it isn't synonymous with the word robot in any way, the word robot means the same thing it means in English. So a robot would not mean worker. A word for worker in Russian would be "robotnik." Not sure about other Slavic languages though.
 
iamaustrian said:
nuclear is safe?

are you fucking kidding me?
I still remember the disaster. My mum slapped my face after I ate cherrys from our tree that summer. Pretty much everything grown was contaminated with radiation. Note that I live in central austria over 1000km away from the incident. In some parts of austria and south germany grown mushrooms and deer are still considered dangerous to eat after 25 years.

also nuclear waste is everything but safe and there is no way to get rid of it other than shooting it into space. Alone that problem should make us abandon nuclear power forever.
Some human beings are stupid, now I'm not saying your mom was stupid, but I am saying you could've eaten those cherries.
 

Dead Man

Member
agrajag said:
At the risk of asking a dumb question... why do they call the people responsible for cleaning up and containing the fallout from Chernobyl bio-robots?
Been reading about the 'liquidators' on wikipedia, they were awarded a badge that is pretty cool, but damned if I want one:

800px-M%C3%A9dailles_liquidateurs.jpg


# Personnel of the reactors

* Yuri Korneev, Boris Stolyarchuk and Alexander Yuvchenko are the last surviving members of the Reactor No. 4 shift that was on duty at the moment of the catastrophe. Anatoly Dyatlov, who was in charge of the safety experiment at Reactor No. 4, died in 1995 of a heart attack.

# About 40 firefighters, who were among the first to deal with the catastrophe, all now deceased[citation needed]
# A 300-person brigade of Civil Defense from Kiev who buried the contaminated soil
# Medical personnel
# Various workers and military who performed deactivation and clean-up of the area
# Construction workers who constructed the sarcophagus over the exploded reactor No. 4
# Internal Troops, who ensured secure access to the complex
# Transport workers
# Coal miners, who used their expertise to pump out the contaminated water to prevent its entrance into groundwater
# Nikolai Melnik, Hero of the Soviet Union, a helicopter pilot who placed radiation sensors on the reactor
 

agrajag

Banned
Dead Man said:
Been reading about the 'liquidators' on wikipedia, they were awarded a badge that is pretty cool, but damned if I want one:

800px-M%C3%A9dailles_liquidateurs.jpg

The badge is not that great really, it says "participant in liquidation of the consequences of the accident" or something of the sort.
 

Dead Man

Member
agrajag said:
The badge is not that great really, it says "participant in liquidation of the consequences of the accident" or something of the sort.
I meant more the design of the badge with the alpha, beta, and gamma symbols. And most badges with text say inane things.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Drkirby said:
And this is why we made Yucca mountain in North America. I am sure if Nuclear plants ever catch on again, the US government is going to go out of its way to get nations in South America to store its waste in Yucca mountain, someone in Washington is going to paranoid over the waste "falling into the wrong hands" or such.
Yukka Mountain is dead.
 
water_wendi said:
Yukka Mountain is dead.

down, but not out.


In the US we call rad cleanup workers "sponges", y'know since they absorb all that radiation. It's crazy what people are willing to subject their bodies to for money.
 

Truant

Member
Truant said:
Not to be a total dick, but the effects of radiation on the human body fascinates me.

Any videos or pictures of extreme radiation poisoning, such as described in this thread (bodies falling apart, faces melting, etc)?

Anyone?
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
It's terrifying that people were just vaporised instantly. It's like something from the X-Men.
 
BladeoftheImmortal said:
Some human beings are stupid, now I'm not saying your mom was stupid, but I am saying you could've eaten those cherries.

stupid?
The goverment gave out constantly warnings over media to avoid fruits and vegetables this season. We were highly affected by fall-out thanks to the shitty weather on that date.
With the weather at that time turning to the West, an increased radioactivity was quickly detectable in Austria.
More than 20 years after Chernobyl, Austria is still among the most severely affected Western countries. Certain isotopes like Caesium-137 (half life about 30 years) are still enriched in Austrian soil with higher levels only in Scandinavia and Eastern Europe

better be stupid than mutated and dead and to be honest: I would have acted the same way as my mother.
 

KevinRo

Member
Knowing what I know about this subject and having friends majoring in Nuclear Engineering it frustrates me so fucking much when people discuss Nuclear Power and go on a rampage on how great wind and solar power is. Everytime someone mentions solar or wind power I just want to facepalm.

There are a-lot of dumb people in the world discussing Nuclear Power, especially those in College and in this thread. God, I want to slap some people sometimes.
 

MmmSkyscraper

Unconfirmed Member
Valkyr Junkie said:
Isn't the sarcophagus about to collapse? I remember reading there were worries it was weakening a year or two ago.

Dreams-Visions said:
from what I've seen, yes, it's going to collapse sooner or later.

On a BBC Radio 4 show I listened to in the last week, they were discussing a new lining being built to cover the old one. It should last for 100 years, then it's someone else's problem I guess.
 

Javaman

Member
Ushojax said:
It's terrifying that people were just vaporised instantly. It's like something from the X-Men.
That had nothing to do with the radiation. It was the force of the explosion and the steam. The part in the video where it said people started falling apart was more a figure of speech or lost in translation.
 
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