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[evanft]

I can judge how a game's story plays out by one line from a preview done 8 months before the game is released.

 

[Ickman3400]

I can judge how a game's story plays out by one line from a preview done 8 months before the game is released.

It worked for ME2.

They should be more careful what they choose to release if it's going to be this bad.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Exactly what irritates me most about the discussion of this game here. Every single PR quote or tidbit is automatically interpreted in the most pessimistic way possible. Sure you could argue Bioware set a precedent with DA2 but that was a different team. I also know lot of people in this thread were disappointed with ME2 but it's still a shortsighted way of analyzing whatever bone of info they throw us without knowing the full context.

 

[erpg]

It's done by the same team that did Mass Effect 2, the same company that gave us Dragon Age 2 and the same lead writer that gave us Evolution. I think being a little pessimistic and fearful for the future of a franchise we love (for whatever reason) is warranted.

 

[jambo]

Name one other "deep space abombination" that systematically comes in to destroy galactic civilization, sets the clock back to relative zero, leaves undeveloped civs. intact, and departs.

The Shivans

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Wait, incompetent? Fanatical? - I give you that. But incompetent? He financed the Lazarus Project. Cerberus seems to be well organised and financed.

Shepard: "So TIM, I just found this dangerous unethical experiment-gone-wrong that killed everyone in these Cerberus labs. Would you have anything to do with this?"

TIM: "For the 8th-"

Shepard:"9th actually."

TIM:"For the 9th time Shepard, I wasn't involved in any of those unethical experiments. It was probably a rogue agent or something. Besides I don't have time to supervise important, revolutionary projects that could change the face of Galactic warfare."

Shepard:"So best case scenario you're a really bad liar who hires incompetent scientists, worst case you're a moron who hires secretly evil incompetent scientists."

 

[Deleted member 13876]

It's done by the same team that did Mass Effect 2, the same company that gave us Dragon Age 2 and the same lead writer that gave us Evolution. I think being a little pessimistic and fearful for the future of a franchise we love (for whatever reason) is warranted.

I understand that, although I wouldn't put "same team that did ME2" on my list of negatives but there's a line between being a little pessimistic and jumping on every bullet point of info we get and proclaiming the sky is falling.

 

[erpg]

Well, people let their passions overrule proper judgement on forums. I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long as nobody is hurt (I can't imagine the ME2 team has self-esteem issues after the reviews and sales they received).

 

[Jerk]

I understand that, although I wouldn't put "same team that did ME2" on my list of negatives but there's a line between being a little pessimistic and jumping on every bullet point of info we get and proclaiming the sky is falling.

In terms of writing, "same team that did ME2" is most certainly a negative.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

-Tali is a confirmed squadmate

Brb, must "forget" to do her loyalty mission and send her in the tubes.

In terms of writing, "same team that did ME2" is most certainly a negative.

DADDY ISSUES.

 

[HK-47]

I think that was my most WTF moment in the game; not the terminator baby-Reaper, but Miranda saying she isn't sure that giving TIM Collectors' technology was a good idea... and she was "Cerberus' cheerleader" through the whole game (she was even able to give reason to all Cerberus' wrong doing in ME1).

Its so you knew what was the good and bad choice! Cause the viewers are morons, remember.

 

[Kinyou]

Brb, must "forget" to do her loyalty mission and send her in the tubes.



DADDY ISSUES.

don't worry, she'll get resurrected by Cerberus

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Brb, must "forget" to do her loyalty mission and send her in the tubes.

It sucks her death scene doesn't show her face even though she clearly took a rocket to the head.

 

[Bowdz]

Exactly what irritates me most about the discussion of this game here. Every single PR quote or tidbit is automatically interpreted in the most pessimistic way possible. Sure you could argue Bioware set a precedent with DA2 but that was a different team. I also know lot of people in this thread were disappointed with ME2 but it's still a shortsighted way of analyzing whatever bone of info they throw us without knowing the full context.

I think that Bioware have fallen from the good graces in a lot of peoples mind's (myself included) strictly because of aspects in ME2 and DA2 (even if the game was developed by a different team, it still has the Bioware name on it with the Doctors doing a certain amount of oversight). Personally, I am not a fan of the direction the Uncharted 3 MP is taking on paper, but given the success of ND's last project, I am going to trust in their judgement until they give me a reason not to. Bioware has given me two prime examples of why not to trust their judgement completely with ME3 and when small pieces of information come out that indicate that they are headed in the same direction as before, I don't think it is that unfair to be worried.

It is definitely farsighted to judge the direction of the game strictly by the perceived negatives and I will most likely be picking ME3 up when it comes out, but it is hard to not feel disappointed when you know that the story and writing could be so much better (based on ME1 and many of the character arcs in ME2 written by not Mac Walters).

 

[Ickman3400]

Bioware has given me two prime examples of why not to trust their judgement completely with ME3 and when small pieces of information come out that indicate that they are headed in the same direction as before, I don't think it is that unfair to be worried.

This is the exact reason why I'm so negative about it. Almost none of the info that has been released is good.

Same thing happened with ME2 but because 1 was so good I was nervous but kept hope. After 2 there is no hope and just pessimism now. I'm still buying it but I'm not going to be excited about it.

 

[Blue Ninja]

This is the exact reason why I'm so negative about it. Almost none of the info that has been released is good.

Same thing happened with ME2 but because 1 was so good I was nervous but kept hope. After 2 there is no hope and just pessimism now. I'm still buying it but I'm not going to be excited about it.

To each his own. Most of the stuff I've heard (except for some storyline details) has got me excited. Replaying ME1 and 2 only added to that.

 

[thekad]

This is the exact reason why I'm so negative about it. Almost none of the info that has been released is good.

Same thing happened with ME2

Examples?

 

[Grisby]

It sucks her death scene doesn't show her face even though she clearly took a rocket to the head.

Damn, I never lost anyone. Tali gets freaking dropped.

 

[Gestahl]

In terms of writing, "same team that did ME2" is most certainly a negative.

In terms of writing, "Bioware" is a negative. KotOR and Mass Effect 1 weren't exactly pinnacles of storytelling either.

 

[SilentProtagonist]

In terms of writing, "Bioware" is a negative. KotOR and Mass Effect 1 weren't exactly pinnacles of storytelling either.

Yeah, I'm really confused about people who claim to be huge fans of ME1 and think all of the writing in ME2 is shit. Can someone give me examples of the brilliant writing in ME1 that wasn't present in ME2? With REAL examples, not hyperbolic quoting, or just saying "this story sucked" or "the characters were dumb" because that's not.... even acceptable analysis in a junior high class. Give me real examples of how the writing is better.

 

[HK-47]

This is the exact reason why I'm so negative about it. Almost none of the info that has been released is good.

Same thing happened with ME2 but because 1 was so good I was nervous but kept hope. After 2 there is no hope and just pessimism now. I'm still buying it but I'm not going to be excited about it.

If you ignore everything except the story, then yeah.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Yeah, I'm really confused about people who claim to be huge fans of ME1 and think all of the writing in ME2 is shit. Can someone give me examples of the brilliant writing in ME1 that wasn't present in ME2? With REAL examples, not hyperbolic quoting, or just saying "this story sucked" or "the characters were dumb" because that's not.... even acceptable analysis in a junior high class. Give me real examples of how the writing is better.

I was a fan of ME1's gameplay concepts(too bad barely any of those were well executed), not its writing.

The difference is that ME1's writing was inoffensive.

 

[whatevermort]

I can absolutely see criticisms of ME2's storytelling, but to criticise the quality of the writing? Jesus. It was a well-written game. Some characters were written better than others, but the standard was really pretty high, all told.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I can absolutely see criticisms of ME2's storytelling, but to criticise the quality of the writing? Jesus. It was a well-written game.

Why not?

 

[whatevermort]

Why not?

Why not what? Criticise the writing? Because it was well-written. Gauged against all other game writing - and yes, I include the sacred cows of Planescape etc - it was a well-written game. It had some good characters, some excellent dialogue, some interesting turns of event. Fine: you might not like that the story arc was smaller, that it was more personal stories than a big old 'event' story, but the actual quality of the writing was great. And with the amount of content that they have to generate, that's a miracle in itself. Writing narrative and scripts for games is hard. Bioware, in general, do an excellent job of it. ME2 was no exception, and I firmly believe that ME3 will stand up to their excellent standards.

 

[thetrin]

Exactly what irritates me most about the discussion of this game here. Every single PR quote or tidbit is automatically interpreted in the most pessimistic way possible. Sure you could argue Bioware set a precedent with DA2 but that was a different team. I also know lot of people in this thread were disappointed with ME2 but it's still a shortsighted way of analyzing whatever bone of info they throw us without knowing the full context.

It's not shortsighted. As Bioware's Doctors THEMSELVES said in the past: "You're only as good as your last game."

 

[Ushojax]

In terms of writing, "Bioware" is a negative. KotOR and Mass Effect 1 weren't exactly pinnacles of storytelling either.

They weren't but they actually had a story that kept moving forward throughout the game and didn't have any really stupid parts. Something like ME2, did neither of those things. The story stayed still for the majority of the game and I don't remember anything as stupid as the T-800 final boss or the herpderp plot device of 'let's all leave the ship at once' in either KOTOR1 or ME1. Writing is more than just dialogue. ME2 as a story is constructed incredibly badly. Anything larger in scope than your team-mates' past is handled clumsily or barely handled at all.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

It had some good characters

Not arguing against this. ME2 has a way better cast than ME1.

some excellent dialogue

Certainly.

some interesting turns of event.

That never went anywhere. Working for a terrorist organization? Yeah sure whatever.

Fine: you might not like that the story arc was smaller

See non-existent save for the beginning and ending.

that it was more personal stories than a big old 'event' story

Sideplots that, for the most part, had no connection to the main plot of ME2.

At best Tali, Legion, and Mordin's plots might tie into ME3.

but the actual quality of the writing was great.

Yeah. Like when Shepard instantly decides to trust Cerberus despite any misgivings he would have.

Or when Shepard becomes Space Jesus and his(as well as most other people's) reaction to this is "oh okay".

 

[Confidence Man]

Yeah, I'm really confused about people who claim to be huge fans of ME1 and think all of the writing in ME2 is shit. Can someone give me examples of the brilliant writing in ME1 that wasn't present in ME2? With REAL examples, not hyperbolic quoting, or just saying "this story sucked" or "the characters were dumb" because that's not.... even acceptable analysis in a junior high class. Give me real examples of how the writing is better.

Mass Effect didn't have brilliant writing, but characters acted and reacted to events in a way that was consistent and believable. The confrontation between Wrex and Shepard on Virmire, with Ashley ready and willing to kill him if necessary was a good example. Compare that to how Ashley reacts to the resurrected Shepard. "Oh, you're back from the dead. WHY ARE YOU WORKING WITH CERBERUS THO." The fact that he was resurrected to begin with is absurd even in the Mass Effect universe.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

For it's not the writing was better in ME1, because it's not, but what happened in the game was a lot more exciting. I had high hopes for the "Suicide Mission" but it was a pretty dull affair compared to what happened in ME1 starting with Virmire.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Compare that to how Ashley reacts to the resurrected Shepard. "I don't care you was dead, WHY HAVEN'T YOU CALLED ME! AND WHY ARE YOU WORKING WITH CERBERUS THO.".

fix'd

No one in the entire game cared about Shepard's ressurection; no one (maybe besides Nassana) was surprised by the fact that even though (s)he died 2 years ago, (s)he is now well and alive.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Yeah. Like when Shepard instantly decides to trust Cerberus despite any misgivings he would have.

Or when Shepard becomes Space Jesus and his(as well as most other people's) reaction to this is "oh okay".

Or "Hey, I can't be with your squad because you haven't called me in two years."
"But I was dead."
"No excuses."

 

[Blue Ninja]

The resurrection bit was stupid to begin with, imo. There were numerous ways they could've started it off a bit more plausibly.

Oh well, that's water under the bridge. Or over. Or whatever.

 

[jgminto]

I think most people thought he was on a covert mission but whatever.

 

[thetrin]

Yet again, the Citadel stupidity neurotoxin theory flourishes. Everyone in the series is too dumb to understand that when people die, THEY USUALLY DO NOT COME BACK.

The resurrection bit was stupid to begin with, imo. There were numerous ways they could've started it off a bit more plausibly.

Oh well, that's water under the bridge. Or over. Or whatever.

How else were they going to shoehorn in their dumb face-changing mechanic?!

 

[Ickman3400]

If you ignore everything except the story, then yeah.

It's set up to be a species recruiting game instead of squad member recruiting and they added rpg elements yet somehow, so far at least, have made it less of an actual rpg than ME1.

I guess after the abomination that was ME2 I should be happy with some improvement rather than none. Hard for me to feel that way though.

 

[Nappuccino]

For it's not the writing was better in ME1, because it's not, but what happened in the game was a lot more exciting. I had high hopes for the "Suicide Mission" but it was a pretty dull affair compared to what happened in ME1 starting with Virmire.

the main issue is that there is no build up too it. All the side-loyalty missions are just that; fairly well done side missions. There plot arc from beginning to end is wake up, go to attacked colony, go to colony still under attack, go to iff ship, suicide mission. It really could have used a few more plot related missions after you got your team together.

 

[thetrin]

I don't know why I'm even excited about Me3. ME1 and ME2 proved that no matter what direction they go in with the series, Bioware has no fucking clue how to handle it. Either it's RPG heavy, and utterly broken, or it's a simplistic shooter and it's utterly boring.

the main issue is that there is no build up too it. All the side-loyalty missions are just that; fairly well done side missions. There plot arc from beginning to end is wake up, go to attacked colony, go to colony still under attack, go to iff ship, suicide mission. It really could have used a few more plot related missions after you got your team together.

You know what would be great? Not centering the entire story around recruiting a crew! That whole concept is dumb beyond belief. Great, yes. Let's take the most common mechanic in party based RPGs, and make it the plot. That will go over REAL well.

 

[Rahxephon91]

I'm glad I'm not that into ME. ME1 wasn't even that great(perhaps even bad) and at least ME2 was ok to play. So as long as ME3 is ok I'll be fine.

Feel bad for Bioware. I think they are screwed either way they go.

 

[Kitschkraft]

All I need is Ash by my side.

Garrus can come too.

I'm glad they are bringing Ashley back but I hope they aren't changing her personality along with her looks.

Worried that Bioware is going to pander to her haters. She was somewhat emasculating in ME1...that is what makes her GOOD. She looks ridiculous, hope she isn't a Miranda sex pot clone.

 

[Blue Ninja]

How else were they going to shoehorn in their dumb face-changing mechanic?!

If they're integrating it into ME3 without killing Shepard a second time, I can't see why they couldn't do it in ME2. Heck, they could've started it off like the first one, with Shepard's "personnel file" corrupted and needing manual recovery. If the player wanted to retcon Shepard's look, let them actually retcon it without shoe-horning in a meaningless death sequence. Heck, if you change your appearance, people still recognize you, so the whole death-angle's just a very lame excuse.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I don't know why I'm even excited about Me3. ME1 and ME2 proved that no matter what direction they go in with the series, Bioware has no fucking clue how to handle it. Either it's RPG heavy, and utterly broken, or it's a simplistic shooter and it's utterly boring.

Well they seem to be taking steps towards making the combat better.

And if combat is as common as it was in ME2, that's a pretty big deal.

 

[thetrin]

If they're integrating it into ME3 without killing Shepard a second time, I can't see why they couldn't do it in ME2. Heck, they could've started it off like the first one, with Shepard's "personnel file" corrupted and needing manual recovery. If the player wanted to retcon Shepard's look, let them actually retcon it without shoe-horning in a meaningless death sequence. Heck, if you change your appearance, people still recognize you, so the whole death-angle's just a very lame excuse.

I was actually referring to the ridiculous "you get scars because you're EEEVIL" bullshit that they carried over from KOTOR.

 

[The Technomancer]

Mass Effect didn't have brilliant writing, but characters acted and reacted to events in a way that was consistent and believable.

...when it was convenient. Other times, they were just wacko.
"Oh hey, this ten second audio clip is irrefutable proof that Saren is a traitor, since apparently even with all our advanced technology the idea that someone with, say, a grudge against him could fake it is absolutely inconceivable.
Well rather then launch a competent investigation this time around, we'll just strip him of all his power, and appoint said grudge-holder's pet Commander to one of the most powerful and unquestioned positions of authority in the galaxy"

 

[Blue Ninja]

I was actually referring to the ridiculous "you get scars because you're EEEVIL" bullshit that they carried over from KOTOR.

Oh wow, I forgot about that. Another lame design decision I choose to ignore. :lol

ME2's amazing if you leave out some annoying details.

 

[thetrin]

Well they seem to be taking steps towards making the combat better.

And if combat is as common as it was in ME2, that's a pretty big deal.

I really don't care about the combat if they don't completely overhaul the skill tree. It needs more complexity, and it needs more flexibility. Otherwise, no amount of dynamic combat will get me interested.

 

[heliosRAzi]

You know what would be great? Not centering the entire story around recruiting a crew! That whole concept is dumb beyond belief. Great, yes. Let's take the most common mechanic in party based RPGs, and make it the plot. That will go over REAL well.

I loved the recruiting in ME1. You get most of your crew in the first couple of hours and then you tackle some missions for the plot.

Also, like someone else said earlier, having Shepard die was stupid and pointless. What was the purpose? Just to be shocking? And then having him work for Cerberus? Cerberus should have been represented by Miranda and her ass only and make her a kind of temporary ally that you don't entirely trust, but she has good info. And the Alliance hires you to investigate the disappearance of human colonies, not Cerberus. Cerberus is only involved to further their agenda.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

The resurrection bit was stupid to begin with, imo. There were numerous ways they could've started it off a bit more plausibly.

Oh well, that's water under the bridge. Or over. Or whatever.

The river has flooded, and the stress caused by the raging waters caused the bridge to collapse.

 

[Rahxephon91]

They killed Shep because Bioware thought it would be cool and a clever way to explain why you don't have all your powers.

I hope they kill him off again. So he can be resurrected again as space Jesus.

 

[The Technomancer]

They killed Shep because Bioware thought it would be cool and a clever way to explain why you don't have all your powers.

I hope they kill him off again. So he can be resurrected again as space Jesus.

Man, didn't they learn anything from Metroid?