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[MisterXDTV]

Mat having access to data doesn't mean he knows his shit. It's how you process the data. His analysis of the data is laughable at this point.





His tweet confirmed that portables are included in hardware gaming revenue. How the fuck did he come to that conclusion when he was comparing 6 platforms in 2008 to the current 3 platforms? It seems disingenuous especially now that Nintendo decided to make the Switch a hybrid instead of releasing two separate hardware in the market, a console, and the other dedicated portable hardware. He also completely neglected to mention the main factor underperformer that is dragging down the market aka XBS.

1. Nintendo DS
2. PSP
3. Wii
4. PS3
5. PS2 ( kept on selling great even with the PS3 release)
6. Xbox 360

This guy should stick to releasing data without his extremely dumb takes. Your average Joe on this forum knows better than this full-time paid shill.

I don't get it: what's his job exactly?

- To read real data fans have to convert his useless data to real numbers

- He's probably the worst analyst you can find


And he's probably making big money out of this, unbelievable

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Neither.

What I'm saying is that including the Wii is as arbitrary as not including cell phones.

It was not a traditional game console and it sold significantly to non-console gamers who checks notes did not buy console games.



What numbers?



Selling below inflated expectations doesn't mean it isn't selling well or that it isn't on pace to outsell the PS4.

This is fiction.




It's not a theory. I was there. It was well reported on.

Alright if it's fiction then what's the public number Sony has given that the PS5 will reach lifetime and then tell me what date did they give it on?

 

[Wildebeest]

The console gaming companies are focussing on older and wealthier players than they used to, and extracting more money from each player for a similar number of "games sold". This is why it has not seemed relevant at all to complain that the user base was stagnating with an ageing playerbase without as many "broke kids" being given consoles by their parents. Let's say, for example, the last real pipeline of kids into the console gaming hobby was the Nintendo DS. You have someone who was 10 in 2004, they are around 30 now. Maybe now they can spend more on games, but they have less time to game. Maybe they have kids and are very busy otherwise. Compared to someone 20 years younger than them, with very different habits and preferences, they might be spending more time playing "hardcore games" but compared to themselves 10 years ago probably less.

 

[mdkirby]

I could be way off, but I sometimes wonder if this is the fault of addictive mobile gaming and microtransactions.

GenZ have been eschewing vices such as alcohol. They grew up during the toxic peak of exploitative microtransaction mobile gaming, and were exposed to those practices whilst young. Became addicted on those phone or tablet games. Many would have shirked off that addiction and never graduated to console, likely assuming it was the same poison. Others will have, and there become addicted to Fortnite, an addictive beast that also eats all their money and time, few play other games. They simply never turn into the historical “gamer” with varied tastes, and view all gaming as like alcohol, an addictive poison designed to exploit you like a casino. So as they enter their 20s, they just aren’t interested. This is coupled with people spending all their time on social . Some companies reaped vast short term treasures in the last 10-15yr, but it may have been at the expense of the broader long term growth of the industry. Any just my thoughts. Could be totally wrong.

 

[Yonyx]

Mat, you haven't processed it yet.

(Nov 22 - Feb 24)
PS5 10.3 m (64%)
XBS 5.9 m (36%)

(Nov 13 - Oct 22)
PS 44.0 m (54%)
XB 37.0 m (46%)


Console gaming is booming

Is this data (the chart) worldwide or is it just USA?

 

[demigod]

In usual Mat fashion he seems to have now deleted his tweet.

No shock there whatsoever. Mat Piscatella is such a manbaby. Any push back whatsoever and he throws sarcastic temper tantrums and runs away crying.

At least all these shills, Mat, Warren, Jez have one thing in common. Cowards.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Alright if it's fiction then what's the public number Sony has given that the PS5 will reach lifetime and then tell me what date did they give it on?

When did they ever give a number for what the PS5 will reach?

 

[Iced Arcade]

I don't know about console sales but that era was firing at both barrels.

PS3/360 we got Halo 3, ODST, Reach, Halo 4. gears of war 1, 2, 3 and judgement. Uncharted 1, 2 & 3, resistance 1, 2 & 3. killzone 2, 3. Handful of God of war games Etc

Just naming a couple... That era was prime.

 

[DaGwaphics]

When you contrast the numbers against the ever increasing population, the data definitely points to people finding other avenues for gaming. Only thing sad about it is that a lot of the kids that are growing up on mobile games view those as the primary example of what gaming is.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

When you contrast the numbers against the ever increasing population, the data definitely points to people finding other avenues for gaming. Only thing sad about it is that a lot of the kids that are growing up on mobile games view those as the primary example of what gaming is.

When you consider that the numbers he is focused on had tons of non-core gamers who only dabbled in the "console" market due to the wii and have returned to mobile and other areas makes this really misleading.

You also have the rise in PC gaming since then to account for.

The reality is that the next 3-4 years could see 3 new handheld capable devices hit the market from Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony. It could also see the launch of the next Xbox and the PS6.

If we revisit this thread in 5 years, I'm guessing it is going to come across as even more comical than it does now.

When looking at population, maybe you would hope for more growth than there is, but again I think cost has a lot to do with that and supply chain issues. If the PS4 was allowed to drop naturally in price, we might have seen it sell another 5-20 million units for example.

The PS4 Pro had to be discontinued because it was just as expensive as the PS5 Digital. I guarantee you it wasn't as expensive to make, but what's the point in selling more PS4 Pros at that point when you're buying more expensive components to try to make as many PS5s as you can?

You should be able to buy a brand new PS4 base unit for 200-250 dollars right now, but that's not really an option.

The reality is Sony should want to get you on their platform for the lowest cost both to them and to the consumer. The closest you can get to free/no manufacturing cost the better.

Will Sony continue the PS5 as a low cost option once the PS6 launches? They will if they can manufacture it for cheaper, but as PC gaming continues to skyrocket in cost, the PS5 is going to become a bargain at some point.

 

[ArtHands]

Both can be true, but neither are a sign that Playstation is in trouble or in a decline.
Nor the console-market, for that matter.

It's just one company that's in trouble, no matter what diversion is being created.

If their hardware sales is below forecast, slashing lots of jobs and cancelling handful of game projects isn't in trouble, then ok. You're free to feel what you like.

 

[drganon]

Both can be true, but neither are a sign that Playstation is in trouble or in a decline.
Nor the console-market, for that matter.

It's just one company that's in trouble, no matter what diversion is being created.

There's no point in arguing with art. He's just another pcmr stooge who has a hate boner against playstation with a history of bans.

 

[HofT]

Hardware spending was higher in 2023 than each year from 2010 to 2021 - were consoles dying in those years too?

For sure. And with that you can put a positive spin on this. The chart shows hardware spending has been growing since 2019 and it's almost back to what it was in the late 2000s.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Whatever. Everyone tells me engagement is all that matters. Where’s your chart on that?

It's much higher these days than 2008.

 

[demigod]

There's no point in arguing with art. He's just another xbox fan pretending to be pcmr stooge who has a hate boner against playstation with a history of bans.

Fixed for you.

 

[Celine]

He's right though, nothing has outsold the ps2 yet right?

In US NDS outsold the PS2 and currently sits as the best selling console of all time in that market.
NSW is expected to surpass PS2 in US during 2024 (it's about 1.5M away from overtaking).

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

The console market certainly is changing right before our eyes.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I would personally have them try hit other markets

PS is trying to do that. but that is a slow process.

 

[Celine]

We've largely seen growth in core gaming, the Wii was largely a fluke that had little overall impact on the industry overall. 3rd party games weren't selling on the Wii. If we looked at just software sales it would show us a clearer picture of the health of the industry and how much of an outlier the Wii was.

You don't know what you are talking about.
Third-party publishers enjoyed robust software sales on WII in US.
Who largely missed the party were the japanese publishers in their home market (they preferred to invest the budget on NDS and PSP projects).

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

If Xbox will do well, it will come at cost of Sony. Thats the point. Market is gonna be constant till old generation lasts. It will evaporate rapidly after that.

one thing is for certain. the console market can't sustain these many consoles, it's obvious that there is not space for xbox.
Play Station and Nintendo are firmly established across the world. their brands are stronger

Xbox has falied to gain market share and there is no turning back. this why they are scrambling to find success outside consoles.

My guess is 10 yrs from now till deterioration starts. After that it will be all about phones, tablets, pc (if its lucky. Next generation doesn’t hate it for some reason).

why do peole buy anything? (that's not a necessity for living).

Marketing is a powerful tool. Consoles have certain idiosyncrasies that differentiate them from mobile and PCs.

sony and Nintendo have an incentive to keep the machine alive, as long as there is money to be made, they will continue to try.

people acting like the console market is not worth any money are delusional.

A reminder of how fast market can drop, I will refer you to digital camera market after rise of smartphones

bad example. you don't use a camera to consume content.

a better example is the cinema or movie theater experience.

less people are going to the movie theater overall. But when they do, they do it for the massive blockbuster or the zeitgeist film....this is consoles.

in this context Sony and Nintendo have an incredibly strong advantage over any other competition.

They only need to expand/reach to the other market segments. Sony and Nintendo are finding some success doing so. They will be retarded to pivot away consoles.

 

[mckmas8808]

The problem when combining all the console sales as a unique user vs what one platform peaked at is people by the end of a generation have multiple consoles and only buying a game on 1 platform and possibly only subscribed to 1 sub service at a time. I'd argue a good bunch of those 260 mil ps3/360/wii had multiple consoles, I'm not a huge console guy but I had all 3 of those. Last gen I had 3 ps4's and that's it, this gen i've had 1 ps5 and probably a 2nd once the pro releases.

If we actually had 280 million unique users in the console market the ps4 would have toppled the ps2, I'd expect it to actually be around 170 million unique users. Unfortunately neither of us have access to the data we need to factual prove ourselves right. If we look at those ps3 and ps4 numbers you've got there 35m less people buy an xbone and ps4 sells 27m more and nintendo sell an extra 15m, could make a case that people shifted camps and there were a few million more actual new unique customers.

I don't think roblox is a good example of kids using consoles, i've got no idea how reliable the numbers are I've seen but they are saying it's like 80% mobile, 18% desktop and 2% console and I don't think minecraft would be much different. Will give you fortnite though consoles seem the major patform there.

Oh stop it! People had multiple PS1 and PS2s also. Also with multiple Gamecubes. That's nothing different than before.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You don't know what you are talking about.
Third-party publishers enjoyed robust software sales on WII in US.
Who largely missed the party were the japanese publishers in their home market (they preferred to invest the budget on NDS and PSP projects).

Yes because the generation ended August 2010...

GTA5 released in 2013.
Arkham City released in 2011.


The PS3 didn't start hitting its stride until late 2009 and its already close to parity with the Wii here and the 360 was significantly ahead on 3rd party support as was the DS despite the Wii being a console that sold 100 million units, it's attach rate for 3rd party was pretty bad.

 

[mckmas8808]

Haven't recent years displayed that there are no new swath of customers on the way?

Gamepass, Apple Arcade and Stadia have all failed.
The mobile crowd doesn't want to play core games, and doesn't want to pay for them.
The subscription attempt (obviously most attributed to Microsoft, but even Sony internally admits this with their more mild PS Plus model) has done nothing to grow the market, just undercut it.
Porting to PC has demonstrably done nothing but weaken Xbox, and it will show to do the same to PlayStation.

Unless there's some type of financial and cultural shift in Asia and Africa, console manufacturers should understand by now that gaming is done with its growth spurt. The market has matured.

Sony has literally started doing just this about 4 years ago. They started focusing on China I think 5 or 6 years ago. And Africa is next. They will probably look to grow the PS market by 5-10% in Asia and African markets this gen. It wouldn't surprise me if they sell an additional 10 million PS5s in Asia and Africa by the year 2030.

And I still see people ignoring that the DS and PSP are included in these 2008 numbers. A little silly, no?

 

[SHA]

Just looked it up. Sony posted a revenue of $30 billion last year.

Their 2008 revenue? 6.8 billion.

Overall, the industry was at $21 billion in 2008. So we are up 3x in 16 years.



Source:

Big 3 revenues compared: PlayStation made $30 billion in 2023, Xbox $18 billion

How much revenue did gaming's Big 3 triumvirate make during 2023? We take a closer look at the annualized revenues of PlayStation, Xbox, and Nintendo.

www.tweaktown.com

US PlayStation revenues down $1.3 billion last year

Gama's claiming that American PlayStation revenues dropped around $1.3 billion last year, with gains from an expanding …

www.vg247.com

Video game sales top $21 billion in 2008

All throughout 2008, as the economy went from bad to worse, video games continued to sell at record levels, boosted by the popularity of the Nintendo Wii and blockbuster games like "Grand Theft Auto IV."

www.nbcnews.com

PS2 sold 150 million to Gamecube's 21 million and Xbox's 24 million. In total the hardware sales that gen were less than 200 million. Add another 9 million for dreamcast.

the gen after that saw PS3 sell 88 million. xbox 360 85 million and Wii 100 million. Thats over 260 million.

PS4 sold 115 million. switch also 115 million and Xbox One 50 million. thats 280 million. Add another 13 million for Wii U.

The problem this gen is the Xbox underperforming. Nothing more. PS5 is selling like hotcakes. Switch is ending the generation relatively strong compared to other consoles. switch 2 will break records because despite what he says, kids are playing games more than ever. fortnite, minecraft, robolox are all massive hits among kids. you and i are not playing that trash.

Isn't the gap between Playstation and Xbox just 10b usd? Like 25b to 15b usd since 2022 and 2023 if you discount acquisitions, I don't understand the Doom and gloom that people are trying to show for ms machine, we get that xbox exclusives are relatively more sophisticated and fewer in numbers, but that just shows the difference between the two respectively, for all what did, discrimination to xbox is just wrong, 15b usd isn't a broken business, and the 10b gap isn't worth mentioning.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

one thing is for certain. the console market can't sustain these many consoles, it's obvious that there is not space for xbox.
Play Station and Nintendo are firmly established across the world. their brands are stronger

Xbox has falied to gain market share and there is no turning back. this why they are scrambling to find success outside consoles.

Maybe. Sony also conceded handheld market to Nintendo.

Maybe Xbox will leave home console market to Sony and do something else they consider worthwhile. Not outlandish.

why do peole buy anything? (that's not a necessity for living).

Marketing is a powerful tool. Consoles have certain idiosyncrasies that differentiate them from mobile and PCs.

sony and Nintendo have an incentive to keep the machine alive, as long as there is money to be made, they will continue to try.

people acting like the console market is not worth any money are delusional.

Marketing cannot solve this issue.

Will you start gaming on smartphones if they marketed it nicely to you?

When I was a kid, I started on console. Thats where I wish to stay, controller with physical buttons. Same goes for someone who started on mobile/ tablets.

bad example. you don't use a camera to consume content.

a better example is the cinema or movie theater experience.

less people are going to the movie theater overall. But when they do, they do it for the massive blockbuster or the zeitgeist film....this is consoles.

in this context Sony and Nintendo have an incredibly strong advantage over any other competition.

They only need to expand/reach to the other market segments. Sony and Nintendo are finding some success doing so. They will be retarded to pivot away consoles.

Camera - a dedicated photography device.

Console - a dedicated gaming device.

See the pattern?

For near future, console market is healthy. It will not last forever though, unless you get new generation interested in them.

These companies don’t look at 1-2 yrs in future but longer than that. They see a worrying pattern so are diversifying. If they won’t cater to market of future, they will be gone. Simple as that.

 

[Self_Destructive]

His tweet confirmed that portables are included in hardware gaming revenue. How the fuck did he come to that conclusion when he was comparing 6 platforms in 2008 to the current 3 platforms? It seems disingenuous especially now that Nintendo decided to make the Switch a hybrid instead of releasing two separate hardware in the market, a console, and the other dedicated portable hardware. He also completely neglected to mention the main factor underperformer that is dragging down the market aka XBS.


This guy should stick to releasing data without his extremely dumb takes. Your average Joe on this forum knows better than this full-time paid shill.

lmao... use your damn head. The reason he came to the conclusion he did... is because what Nintendo did with the Switch by making it a hybrid LITERALLY CONTRACTED THE CONSOLE MARKET. And there's no Vita/PSP anymore either... hmm wonder why that is??

And your point about the Series consoles dragging down the market doesn't change the fact that it's happened. Did you ever stop to consider why the market isn't buying Xboxes? Xbox not creating compelling content? Sure.. but maybe it also has to do with the fact that all of the consoles now share so much of the same library that an aging population of console gamers no longer sees the point in buying all of them? Hell, they're basically the same hardware at this point.

These aren't oversights or a misrepresentation of the data... it's literally the state of the market now... People are misunderstanding the difference between the amount of people who buy devices such as these (the market)... and the quantity of devices they are selling to those people. Yes... they are making more revenue... but finding ways to increase monetization of the player-base.. is not the same as "growing the market". They need people who weren't buying consoles before... to start buying them.. and that group of people no longer exists in NA to any substantial degree. The people that buy these devices are already buying them. Thus if they want to reach MORE people... they have to sell things on devices which aren't consoles.

 

[ThaGuy]

Fun fact, the Wii had a pretty high attachment rate. It was like 8 or 9 games per console. So it was never true that the average Wii user bought it for Wii sports and that was it.

On topic, I would say consoles not having price drops anymore doesn't help the numbers. I would've been bought a PS5 if it was a little cheaper, but now with pro versions and then the talk of next gen, sometimes it's just better to wait and see what happens.

 

[ArtHands]

The console gaming companies are focussing on older and wealthier players than they used to, and extracting more money from each player for a similar number of "games sold". This is why it has not seemed relevant at all to complain that the user base was stagnating with an ageing playerbase without as many "broke kids" being given consoles by their parents. Let's say, for example, the last real pipeline of kids into the console gaming hobby was the Nintendo DS. You have someone who was 10 in 2004, they are around 30 now. Maybe now they can spend more on games, but they have less time to game. Maybe they have kids and are very busy otherwise. Compared to someone 20 years younger than them, with very different habits and preferences, they might be spending more time playing "hardcore games" but compared to themselves 10 years ago probably less.

Certainly seems consoles is being undercut by mobile/tablet/budget laptop, because these are more versatile, convenient and is more common in households.

Kids has their phones for tiktok or instagram. Students have their school laptops that they’ll be using to play cheap Steam games over $499 for a console with $70 AAA games.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

And your point about the Series consoles dragging down the market doesn't change the fact that it's happened. Did you ever stop to consider why the market isn't buying Xboxes? Xbox not creating compelling content? Sure.. but maybe it also has to do with the fact that all of the consoles now share so much of the same library that an aging population of console gamers no longer sees the point in buying all of them? Hell, they're basically the same hardware at this point.

I highly doubt a significant portion of the console-demographic buys multiple systems anyway.

There is no dragging down of the market.

Only Xbox and Playstation are competing for the same demographic directly and people move in between those two.
When people move away from Xbox, they move to Playstation and vice versa.

We have the numbers to support this.

PS2 - 160M
Xbox - 24M

Total - 184M (likely mostly overlap, as Xbox was a new player during the layer part of the gen)

PS3 - 87M
X360 - 84M

Total: 171M

PS4 - 117M
XBO - 57M

Total 174M

As for Nintendo, their sales skew numbers as Wii was an outlier due to the massive success amongst non-gamers, Wii U only sold ~14M due to losing said non-gamers and got discontinued and Switch lumped the Nintendo console and handheld together.

So I imagine it is very difficult to make a proper estimate for the console-market due to Nintendo making different moves from the other two, which means it's easier to go with Playstation and Xbox, for arguments sake.

The market is stable and Xbox declining will only make Sony take over their share.

 

[Three]

You don't know what you are talking about.
Third-party publishers enjoyed robust software sales on WII in US.
Who largely missed the party were the japanese publishers in their home market (they preferred to invest the budget on NDS and PSP projects).

Look at the third party sales on the wii as a percentage of sales and you'll see that he's right. Then realise that there was only 1 publisher and a hand full of games that did really well on it (Ubisoft, Just dance, Rabbids).

 

[Wildebeest]

Certainly seems consoles is being undercut by mobile/tablet/budget laptop, because these are more versatile, convenient and is more common in households.

Kids has their phones for tiktok or instagram. Students have their school laptops that they’ll be using to play cheap Steam games over $499 for a console with $70 AAA games.

People used to have really mocking jokes against the argument that console gaming is more expensive than PC gaming because you also need to buy a huge TV, an expensive leather couch, and a huge mansion to put the TV in, but there is some truth to it.

 

[yazenov]

lmao... use your damn head. The reason he came to the conclusion he did... is because what Nintendo did with the Switch by making it a hybrid LITERALLY CONTRACTED THE CONSOLE MARKET. And there's no Vita/PSP anymore either... hmm wonder why that is??

And your point about the Series consoles dragging down the market doesn't change the fact that it's happened. Did you ever stop to consider why the market isn't buying Xboxes? Xbox not creating compelling content? Sure.. but maybe it also has to do with the fact that all of the consoles now share so much of the same library that an aging population of console gamers no longer sees the point in buying all of them? Hell, they're basically the same hardware at this point.

These aren't oversights or a misrepresentation of the data... it's literally the state of the market now... People are misunderstanding the difference between the amount of people who buy devices such as these (the market)... and the quantity of devices they are selling to those people. Yes... they are making more revenue... but finding ways to increase monetization of the player-base.. is not the same as "growing the market". They need people who weren't buying consoles before... to start buying them.. and that group of people no longer exists in NA to any substantial degree. The people that buy these devices are already buying them. Thus if they want to reach MORE people... they have to sell things on devices which aren't consoles.

Nintendo consolidated their portable and console hardware business was due to many factors but the major issue was catering to both audiences with a constant stream of quality and quantity of software and content. And avoid the major content drought during many month for both it's portable and console consumers.

As you are aware, the majority of content consumed by the audience that buys Nintendo hardware are buying them for Nintendo software, and 3rd party content are just icing on the cake. The proof of this are the software sales figures where Nintendo 1st party content dominates the charts, as opposed to the opposite with Sony and Xbox where 3rd party software are the bulk of the sales.

So Nintendo releasing 1st party software for both the portable and console with a relatively small team of developers is no easy task, especially to satisfy the damand of both markets at a satisfactory level, and with the increasing competitive market in the console space with Sony and Playstation.

How do they solve the problem? How do they cater for both audiences at the same time and decrease both development time and cost, and consequently reduce overhead cost? Yes you guest it, consolidation. Making a hybrid console that caters to both markets. Their decision proved a success and their sales of both software and hardwares speaks for themselves.

However, we do know that there is demand for a dedicated handheld space with the Steam Deck. Its priced as a premium product, and it caters to a different target audience than Nintendo. It targets gamers who wants to play their PC games on the go. It's reletive success and existance proves that the demand for such devices exists.

Sure the mobile phones exits, but the majority of its software are free to pay trash with micro transactions and shit. Same gaming on the go market, but different target audiences.

With regards to Xbox, anyone with half a brain knows that they have lost alot of their audience to other platforms and PC due to release their exclusive games on it rather than keeping it exclusive to their own platform. You don't need an Xbox. My point is, it's console sales won't be such a disappointment if they focused on 1st party software like Sony and Nintendo, and created demand for their on platform. The maket would have looked very differently from how it is now with 3 major healthy platform holders. And instead, MS with its XBS failure, managed so drag down the market.

I forgot to mention that the pandemic also severely affected the supply chain, especially with the PS5. I'd imagine the market would look very different if Sony had managed to satisfy the demand of the PS5 during the initial 2 years of its launch.

Finally you seem to neglect the fact the all consoles are priced nowadays at a premium rate instead of the mass market price of the previous generations to maximise profits, versus unit sales. Both Sony and Nintendo are currently more successful in terms of profit and software sales than in 2008, and it's not even close. This is in my opinion the barometer for success instead of hardware revenue.

Mat making a statement like this without context is extremely disingenuous, and the majority of us here knows better than him with regards to the actual market health.

 

[vkbest]

That is not to say Consoles are irrelevant or dying, but unit hardware growth has not grown at all since Gen 7. It has shrunk.

Gen 7: 101 + 87 + 84 = 272
Gen 8: 140 + 117 + 50 = 307

i don't know rick it looks fake

Also PC hardware and smartphones has shrunk too. It’s simply we are getting the point where hardware advances are lower. You will not get those jumps in hardware anymore.

 

[yazenov]

Certainly seems consoles is being undercut by mobile/tablet/budget laptop, because these are more versatile, convenient and is more common in households.

Kids has their phones for tiktok or instagram. Students have their school laptops that they’ll be using to play cheap Steam games over $499 for a console with $70 AAA games.

The types of games played on your typical mobile/tablet/budget laptops differ greatly from those played on your gaming consoles. They are a different target audience; if console manufacturers want to sell content to such an audience, they must create unique content. I don't see much of an overlap.

With regards to PC, sure there is an overlap, but the audience who prefer to play on consoles will remain on consoles.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

Edit: Cumulative US inflation since 2008 is 44.1%, which does hit home that spending has considerably decreased.

 

[Edmund]

PC will not be affected until nvidia migrate to only gpu rent model in 5-10 years. After that only cloud(xbox and nvidia) will be options or old pc hw with no updates.
Nintendo will keep their model until they can.

Sony is fucked on the long term.

Gotta change your name to Insanepar.

 

[hussar16]

What's expanding beyond a console to play games? On ur shoes hats?

 

[Zathalus]

Gen 7: 101 + 87 + 84 = 272
Gen 8: 140 + 117 + 50 = 307

i don't know rick it looks fake

Also PC hardware and smartphones has shrunk too. It’s simply we are getting the point where hardware advances are lower. You will not get those jumps in hardware anymore.

The Nintendo Switch is both a handheld device and a console. If you include the DS and PSP numbers for Gen 7 it looks quite a bit different when you do the comparison. Not only that but it can be either 9th or 8th gen depending on how you count it.

 

[Topher]

What's expanding beyond a console to play games? On ur shoes hats?

PC, mobile

 

[Killer8]

Sure, if you are looking at where the biggest line reaches, 2008 is the peak. But the overall trend since 1994 has been an increase - the shape of the graph is a rising wedge. This decade's hardware spending is already more than last decade's.

It also doesn't say anything about the overall state of the industry. Hardware sales don't mean nearly as much as software sales and subscriptions. A lot of hardware is sold at a loss and is just viewed by the manufacturer as a gateway to the software revenue, which is where the real money is made.

Gaming revenue continues to rise year on year for the last few decades, with only a slight correction recently which is perfectly explained by the pandemic ending.

 

[DaGwaphics]

When you consider that the numbers he is focused on had tons of non-core gamers who only dabbled in the "console" market due to the wii and have returned to mobile and other areas makes this really misleading.

You also have the rise in PC gaming since then to account for.

The reality is that the next 3-4 years could see 3 new handheld capable devices hit the market from Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony. It could also see the launch of the next Xbox and the PS6.

If we revisit this thread in 5 years, I'm guessing it is going to come across as even more comical than it does now.

When looking at population, maybe you would hope for more growth than there is, but again I think cost has a lot to do with that and supply chain issues. If the PS4 was allowed to drop naturally in price, we might have seen it sell another 5-20 million units for example.

The PS4 Pro had to be discontinued because it was just as expensive as the PS5 Digital. I guarantee you it wasn't as expensive to make, but what's the point in selling more PS4 Pros at that point when you're buying more expensive components to try to make as many PS5s as you can?

You should be able to buy a brand new PS4 base unit for 200-250 dollars right now, but that's not really an option.

The reality is Sony should want to get you on their platform for the lowest cost both to them and to the consumer. The closest you can get to free/no manufacturing cost the better.

Will Sony continue the PS5 as a low cost option once the PS6 launches? They will if they can manufacture it for cheaper, but as PC gaming continues to skyrocket in cost, the PS5 is going to become a bargain at some point.

I don't think the consoles are going anywhere no. It was just a general old man yelling at clouds post. LOL

I'm sure we'll get deeper experiences for mobile as time goes on as well, or maybe something that is mobile and PC/Console.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

You mean the market peaked when you had 3 home consoles selling: Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3 and 2 portable consoles: PSP and NDS instead of one hybrid console that's been out for 7 years, one hit home console and one flop home console? I'm shocked!

The market would be peaking right now if Nintendo was still portables and home consoles and Xbox wasn't flopping.

 

[Topher]

You mean the market peaked when you had 3 home consoles selling: Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3 and 2 portable consoles: PSP and NDS instead of one hybrid console that's been out for 7 years, one hit home console and one flop home console? I'm shocked!

The market would be peaking right now if Nintendo was still portables and home consoles and Xbox wasn't flopping.

Not to mention that during that market "peak" you had a Wii that was punching above its weight with sales to non-gamers like nursing homes and soccer moms as an exercise device. Very much a temporary expansion for the gaming industry due to a mega-fad device. I think it is funny that we have "analysts" who are doing surface level tidbit summaries like this. Devils in the details, as they say, but Mat Piscatella cannot be bothered with that nonsense.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Maybe bringing console exclusives to PC could be part of the problem? You obviously give customers less reasons to invest into your ecosystems.

 

[Three]

lmao... use your damn head. The reason he came to the conclusion he did... is because what Nintendo did with the Switch by making it a hybrid LITERALLY CONTRACTED THE CONSOLE MARKET. And there's no Vita/PSP anymore either... hmm wonder why that is??

And your point about the Series consoles dragging down the market doesn't change the fact that it's happened. Did you ever stop to consider why the market isn't buying Xboxes? Xbox not creating compelling content? Sure.. but maybe it also has to do with the fact that all of the consoles now share so much of the same library that an aging population of console gamers no longer sees the point in buying all of them? Hell, they're basically the same hardware at this point.

The graph Mat posted includes handhelds. Of course some nintendo fan or sony fan is going to spend less on hardware when they don't have to buy a Wii AND a DS or a PSP AND a PS3 but why would this mean companies are looking elsewhere now? Nintendo consolidating hardware was due to cost cutting in development, they make more money now than they ever have. sony weren't even making a profit on their hardware in 2008, they were taking major losses year after year.

Why is he looking at hardware spending like this to paint a picture where the console market is in trouble and companies looking elsewhere? Especially as both Nintendo and Sony wouldn’t want to go back to that era of losses or declines in 2008-2009. Nintendo has been on the up and so has Sony especially since then. There is only one anomaly here.

 

[Self_Destructive]

The graph Mat posted includes handhelds. Of course some nintendo fan or sony fan is going to spend less on hardware when they don't have to buy a Wii AND a DS or a PSP AND a PS3 but why would this mean companies are looking elsewhere now? Nintendo consolidating hardware was due to cost cutting in development, they make more money now than they ever have. sony weren't even making a profit on their hardware in 2008, they were taking major losses year after year.

Why is he looking at hardware spending like this to paint a picture where the console market is in trouble and companies looking elsewhere? Especially as both Nintendo and Sony wouldn’t want to go back to that era of losses or declines in 2008-2009. Nintendo has been on the up and so has Sony especially since then. There is only one anomaly here.

The answer is simple. You're selling all those different devices... to the same overall group of people. It's not growing the market.. you're just selling more things to the market that already exists for your products.

Companies have to look elsewhere to reach people who weren't buying their consoles or games before, and who aren't ever going to. This is "growth" that they are referring to. Obviously Nintendo and Sony and MS have found ways to increasingly monetize their platforms to draw more money out of the people that have already bought in... but that's not what grows the addressable market.

The market is already mature.. and what Mat is saying is that while it's not dying anytime soon.. as it's a huge important market... but that newer trends from younger people show that they don't have the same affinity or allegiance to consoles as the previous generations who grew up with them.. so it's important that these companies adapt and grow their business into those markets to reach the younger generations and continue to find greater success.

 

[Three]

The answer is simple. You're selling all those different devices... to the same overall group of people. It's not growing the market.. you're just selling more things to the market that already exists for your products.

Companies have to look elsewhere to reach people who weren't buying their consoles or games before, and who aren't ever going to. This is "growth" that they are referring to. Obviously Nintendo and Sony and MS have found ways to increasingly monetize their platforms to draw more money out of the people that have already bought in... but that's not what grows the addressable market.

The market is already mature.. and what Mat is saying is that while it's not dying anytime soon.. as it's a huge important market... but that newer trends from younger people show that they don't have the same affinity or allegiance to consoles as the previous generations who grew up with them.. so it's important that these companies adapt and grow their business into those markets to reach the younger generations and continue to find greater success.

The point is that looking at hardware spending and reminiscing about 2008 isn't showing any trend regarding what you're discussing. Nothing suggests that the group of people who bought a PSP were different to those who bought a PS3. The same group of people just had more hardware to buy back then. Every company is always looking for growth but this has nothing to do with consoles or companies now struggling vs 2008. Why does he frame it like that? Only one company has had its hardware sales sink badly to the point where it needs to look for a digital/service platform elsewhere out of necessity.

 

[Self_Destructive]

The point is that looking at hardware spending and reminiscing about 2008 isn't showing any trend regarding what you're discussing. Nothing suggests that the group of people who bought a PSP were different to those who bought a PS3. The same group of people just had more hardware to buy back then. Every company is always looking for growth but this has nothing to do with consoles or companies now struggling vs 2008. Why does he frame it like that? Only one company has had its hardware sales sink badly to the point where it needs to look for a digital/service platform elsewhere out of necessity.

And why do you think they don't have more hardware to buy now?

There's hardware like PSVR2, PSPortal...

 

[Three]

And why do you think they don't have more hardware to buy now?

There's hardware like PSVR2, PSPortal...

Those are not included in the stats. (if they were spending has increased considerably)

 

[Self_Destructive]

Those are not included in the stats. (if they were spending has increased considerably)

Nah, be real, it wouldn't matter even if they were. PSVR2 ain't moving units.. and PSPortal isn't either. If they made a huge difference, Mat would state as much separately.

The chart isn't adjusted for inflation... which means it's vastly worse than it actually looks in that chart.

And I disagree with the premise that Mat is purposefully framing it to show consoles struggling... what he's doing is framing how they're remaining flat... hardware spending-wise. It's simply meaning that the addressable market isn't growing for them.. and they've got to look elsewhere for growth and establish themselves in other markets because trends show that younger gamers aren't as interested in the consoles.. that's all.