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Mat Piscatella: US Video Game Hardware Market Peaked in 2008, young people not buying consoles much; Every company looking to expand beyond consoles.
- Thread starter Leonidas
- Start date
Mibu no ookami
Member
Mat is a bit of an idiot who has a platform because he has access to data that most don't.
Suggesting that gaming peaked in spending in 2008 when most of the spending was on the Wii and was from non core-gamers is highly misleading.
He isn't entirely wrong in his analysis that younger people aren't as interested in consoles, but just because you get to the right conclusion doesn't make your math right.
We've largely seen growth in core gaming, the Wii was largely a fluke that had little overall impact on the industry overall. 3rd party games weren't selling on the Wii. If we looked at just software sales it would show us a clearer picture of the health of the industry and how much of an outlier the Wii was.
Edit: Imagine putting smartphone sales into the hardware equation because people can play games on them. That's how ridiculous his argument is here.
Suggesting that gaming peaked in spending in 2008 when most of the spending was on the Wii and was from non core-gamers is highly misleading.
He isn't entirely wrong in his analysis that younger people aren't as interested in consoles, but just because you get to the right conclusion doesn't make your math right.
We've largely seen growth in core gaming, the Wii was largely a fluke that had little overall impact on the industry overall. 3rd party games weren't selling on the Wii. If we looked at just software sales it would show us a clearer picture of the health of the industry and how much of an outlier the Wii was.
Edit: Imagine putting smartphone sales into the hardware equation because people can play games on them. That's how ridiculous his argument is here.
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MisterXDTV
Member
Piscatella, the guy who hides Xbox terrible sale numbers (but we know them anyway)
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hybrid_birth
Member
Really Purdy Graphics.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I'm sure a major shake-up in the console industry is prompting analysts to take a look at it and talk about it. But I remember very similar conversation happening 20 years ago when Iwata was giving his Blue Ocean speeches. And shortly after that, mobile phone gaming exploded, Zynga/Facebook gaming, so his prediction was right.
And even worse, now that the blue ocean was discovered around roughly 2008 with smart phones, it seems none of them are transitioning over to consoles.
And even worse, now that the blue ocean was discovered around roughly 2008 with smart phones, it seems none of them are transitioning over to consoles.
Del_X
Member
Is this true, inflation-adjusted?
nush
Member
The price of them has been. Maybe these two things are connected?
Zathalus
Member
Gen Z (and early Alpha) appear to be drawn to two things;
1. Mobile, because obviously, everyone has one. These generations are growing up with handheld touch devices.
2. PC, because that is where the majority of streamers (Twitch, Youtube, TikTok) are + everyone hangs out on Discord.
That is not to say Consoles are irrelevant or dying, but unit hardware growth has not grown at all since Gen 7. It has shrunk.
1. Mobile, because obviously, everyone has one. These generations are growing up with handheld touch devices.
2. PC, because that is where the majority of streamers (Twitch, Youtube, TikTok) are + everyone hangs out on Discord.
That is not to say Consoles are irrelevant or dying, but unit hardware growth has not grown at all since Gen 7. It has shrunk.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Spitting facts.
mayham2199
Member
The only issue I have with these kind of reports is it doesn't take into account that gaming habits change. When I was a kid I started off with a console only. Then PC gaming for a very long time. Now as an adult with a family it's console only. I do have a gaming PC as well but I hardly use it anymore and I plan to sell the GPU whenever I decide to stop being lazy.
Who's to say the same wont happen once zoomers and alphas grow up? They might not ask for consoles now because they most likely have a PC at home that's decent enough and then they have a phone so they have no need to ask for a console.
Who's to say the same wont happen once zoomers and alphas grow up? They might not ask for consoles now because they most likely have a PC at home that's decent enough and then they have a phone so they have no need to ask for a console.
Topher
Gold Member
Regurgitating them maybe. Microsoft announced games for PS5. Sony announced plans to expand more into PC and mobile. Both have TV shows and such in play. Nothing Piscatella is saying is new.
It is like he trying to be relevant outside of the monthly/yearly Circana numbers, but really....he just isn't.
MisterXDTV
Member
To get the actual numbers we have to go to InstallBase as he hides them in cryptic percentages anyway
Killjoy-NL
Member
Buy a kid a PS5 and see if they're unhappy.
StereoVsn
Member
Accounting for inflation, has the price really increase that much? I remember buying PS3 / X360 for $299 around 2008.
nush
Member
How much did the games cost?
FunkMiller
Member
It’s almost as if the video games industry has reached the point of market maturity the same way movies and TV did.
These kinds of reports always come from people who don’t really understand economics.
Nothing. Grows. Forever.
These kinds of reports always come from people who don’t really understand economics.
Nothing. Grows. Forever.
ByWatterson
Member
Right? First thought. Dude can't read his own graph.
ReBurn
Gold Member
I don't see where he said consoles were dying. He just said that hardware spending peaked in 2008.
nial
Gold Member
2008 was such a bad year for gaming.
{insert code here}
Member
The youngsters aren't buying consoles probably because almost the entire lineup of modern AAA releases are made up of 20 year old game design philosophies made for an older audience.
TropicanaTwista
Member
Came to say this. The Wii sales were a complete anomaly. Pretty much every I knew had one, gamers, nongamers, kids, adults etc. Mainly just for Wii sports bowling. I would also argue that was the last time that all 3 consoles manufacturers were on their A game. That was right away the time PS3 started to turn it around with their games. Wii had the casual crowd on lock and the 360 was in the middle of their best gen. Don't think it's too surprising when you think about it. Not a coincidence that it was high in 09 too then started too fall off in 2010 when Wii started to lose steam and Xbox invested in Kinect.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I wonder when kids will start saying that about Fortnite and everything else. I buy games monthly and I don’t think I’d bother if all I got was Fortnite, Minecraft, and Warzone.
It’s a weird situation. Kids or upcoming generations don’t want to spend like we use to (still do) because their access to games is filled with mtx/freemium content or not profiting anyone besides a mega corp pushing out gatcha games.
I buy $70 games, but would I recommend my kids do that? The kid I have bought $60 Advanced Wars and played a single match. They spent more time watching the Mario movie than playing Mario games. There’s nothing wrong with what they like, but it’s the reality of the situation. It’s also funny the Wii is brought up. I still see nursing homes with Wii consoles.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Filtering outliers is a pretty basic component of data analysis.
He's an absolute fraud and/or a moron.
It's also worth noting that the PS2 was purchased by non-gamers just to use it as a DVD player.
Consoles now are really primarily game machines for the first time since the PS1/N64/Saturn generation, even more so than the PS4/X1 which acted very much as streaming devices when at the time most people didn't have smart TVs. Yet the PS5 is on pace to outsell the PS4 and will ultimately probably outsell the difference in the X1 and XBS.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
That’s is because they are choosing between gas and more food. The young are mostly lower middle class or near the poverty line just starting out in life.
We have higher auto insurance premiums, higher medical bills, home insurance premiums have doubled, house and rent have skyrocketed, groceries are around 30 percent inflated right now, natural gas has more than doubled in two years according to their websites, educational costs have gone up, interests rates on cars and home have gone up, credit cards, heating and air have jumped, etc.
Folks working hard everyday are having to choose between things they need and their wants are pushed to the bottom of the line.
I council underprivileged children in Savanah GA and Charleston SC and most of their parents are asking questions about how they can stabilize their lives for their children with the money they make with their jobs. It is heartbreaking.
Most folks didn’t and do not realize that inflation accumulates month to month and even when it drops prices are still rising. They do not realize how much their purchasing power has dropped in the last couple years. Most don’t even realize that volatile goods like energy, food, etc are not considered in core inflation, making them not understand why oil and natural gas prices stay high and get higher.
I know I’m oversimplifying it, but folks are averaging 12-15000 more a year in expenditures just to have basic goods and services. I’d wager that is one of the main proponents of folks, especially younger folks not buying a lot of games and systems.
Just my opinion though.
We have higher auto insurance premiums, higher medical bills, home insurance premiums have doubled, house and rent have skyrocketed, groceries are around 30 percent inflated right now, natural gas has more than doubled in two years according to their websites, educational costs have gone up, interests rates on cars and home have gone up, credit cards, heating and air have jumped, etc.
Folks working hard everyday are having to choose between things they need and their wants are pushed to the bottom of the line.
I council underprivileged children in Savanah GA and Charleston SC and most of their parents are asking questions about how they can stabilize their lives for their children with the money they make with their jobs. It is heartbreaking.
Most folks didn’t and do not realize that inflation accumulates month to month and even when it drops prices are still rising. They do not realize how much their purchasing power has dropped in the last couple years. Most don’t even realize that volatile goods like energy, food, etc are not considered in core inflation, making them not understand why oil and natural gas prices stay high and get higher.
I know I’m oversimplifying it, but folks are averaging 12-15000 more a year in expenditures just to have basic goods and services. I’d wager that is one of the main proponents of folks, especially younger folks not buying a lot of games and systems.
Just my opinion though.
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People just made their own argument and ran with it. Even worse when the first response went on a weird tangent about 'casual gamers' and roped in software sales in what is a discussion solely about spending on hardware.
All he's said is hardware spending peaked in 2008. From the graphs, that's 100% correct. Why are you answering an entirely different argument that's not being made in the OP?
ReBurn
Gold Member
This is a basic sum sliced by year. There's no reason to filter outliers when its just a sum if the sum is the answer you're looking for.
Puscifer
Member
I mean it's still something to consider. The PS2 had a ton of casual games that had people interested. We don't have stuff like Sing star and Dance Dance Revolution anymore and I know a bunch of people who bought consoles just for stuff like that. All those casual people are on phones and it's a market that consoles just don't have anymore
James Sawyer Ford
Member
they were never that big on console to begin with. they were gimmicks and fads. let the smart phone market have them
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
The guy is a total idiot. Gen Z aren’t interested in Xbox is the only thing I can see from this data and Wii was a fluke.
yazenov
Member
In 2008 we had more consoles and portable hardware in the market than today. Maybe this is the reason why it peaked in 2008. He said gaming hardware so portables are included I assume.
That is around 6 console/portable gaming hardware, as opposed to the current lineup of 3 consoles: PS5, Switch , and XBS.
It seems like selective data to fit his narrative without context.
- Nintendo DS
- PSP
- Wii
- PS3
- PS2 ( kept on selling great even with the PS3 release)
- Xbox 360
That is around 6 console/portable gaming hardware, as opposed to the current lineup of 3 consoles: PS5, Switch , and XBS.
It seems like selective data to fit his narrative without context.
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Topher
Gold Member
Yeah, I'm not reading this as doom n' gloom. Expanding out from your base doesn't mean the base is going anywhere.
ProtoByte
Member
1. This is just the US. PS4 and Switch sold more than both the PS3 and Wii and the same will be true of the PS5 and Switch2.
2. 2008 was the peak, but it's not like recent years are that far off, and they are higher than anything before and a lot after.
3. As stated above, there were 3 home consoles (one of them silly with peripherals), and 2 of the highest selling handhelds iirc. There's just no full comparison.
4. Piscatella is a dumbass PR stooge who just regurgitates the copium and big ideas of those in the game industry trying to string along the stock market.
5. Most of gen z is very young and has no money and all the time in the world. Habits are not going to stay the same forever. Adults have always been the ones spending on gaming, because adults have the money. Wtf? Lmao
6. Expanding beyond the console means expanding to an audience that does not want to pay for games. Understand that. It's not like the mobile space isn't having its own problems; problems that typify the race to the bottom.
2. 2008 was the peak, but it's not like recent years are that far off, and they are higher than anything before and a lot after.
3. As stated above, there were 3 home consoles (one of them silly with peripherals), and 2 of the highest selling handhelds iirc. There's just no full comparison.
4. Piscatella is a dumbass PR stooge who just regurgitates the copium and big ideas of those in the game industry trying to string along the stock market.
5. Most of gen z is very young and has no money and all the time in the world. Habits are not going to stay the same forever. Adults have always been the ones spending on gaming, because adults have the money. Wtf? Lmao
6. Expanding beyond the console means expanding to an audience that does not want to pay for games. Understand that. It's not like the mobile space isn't having its own problems; problems that typify the race to the bottom.
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Gaming is doing fine, Xbox isn't. The gaming platforms are making more money today than they ever did. And the man is referencing a time when the Playstation and Xbox weren't even profitable.
This is that America = The world retarded mentality in full flight. Just that in this case its Xbox = gaming industry.
What is even more disturbing than people like this saying shit like this, is that there are probably people here that buys into that kinda thinking.
This is that America = The world retarded mentality in full flight. Just that in this case its Xbox = gaming industry.
What is even more disturbing than people like this saying shit like this, is that there are probably people here that buys into that kinda thinking.
Sleepwalker
Member
There are some twitter "journalists" and twitter people that are keen on doomposting about consoles and it's all very weird to me.
yazenov
Member
Suppose he is comparing consoles and excluding portables from the equation. In that case, another possible reason sales are less than in 2008 is that the XBS console is severely underperforming compared to the Xbox 360. Sure the PS5 is overperforming compared to the PS3, but XBS sales are atrocious, and it's the main reason for pulling the market down compared to 2008. Thank Phil for the dead weight.
Klayzer
Member
I find it strange, the gaming media, just glosses over that important fact whenever the comparisons start.
darrylgorn
Member
Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
ChorizoPicozo
Member
People are so dumb
