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MCV: Retail sources talk used Xbox One games, £35 for used game in UK [U2: Eurogamer]

I feel that way and I buy all new games most on launch day. The only used games I've bought are last gen and earlier. Just because I can say this doesn't affect me doesn't mean I should be ok with it.

i really wish people were like you.
they're so damn near-sighted and only care about their situation and ability to play games, they've really forgetting anything else
 

Spartaner

Banned
No, what upsets me is how anyone who has ever done the above of renting, selling, buying used is ok with this.

Something that was available before and a big part of gaming culture is being taken away. The movie industry doesn't do this, the music, the book industry....

But you're " ok with it"

Awesome.

nope im not ok with this but what would you have me do ? i enjoy the ms franchises and exclusives and i love remedy (they are xbone exlusive as far as i know) so it doesnt concern me. i buy the system which has the games i like. if they wont deliver at e3 ill probably spent the money on upgrading my pc.
 

Moobabe

Member
I feel that way and I buy all new games most on launch day. The only used games I've bought are last gen and earlier. Just because I can say this doesn't affect me doesn't mean I should be ok with it.

Exactly. Not everyone is in a position to buy ALL their games new.

If you bought an XBone this Christmas for whatever the cost is people might buy - Watch Dogs, AC IV, FIFA, COD, BF4 etc - that's an enormous amount of money to a LOT of people.

So now the price of "second hand" games will rise - but also the TRADE value of people's games will drop drastically. I know GAF isn't indicative of the mainstream market - because lots of people DO trade their games in for credit so they can buy new ones.
 

PopeReal

Member
So would a game bought at a garage sale even usable by an individual? If it is, would they be charging me whatever the price for a new copy would be?

No. Not unless it is still new and sealed.

If you buy a used game on eBay, craigslist, yardsale, whatever, you will take it home and then pay the full price anyway just to play it.

There will be confusion. (and probably some shady people who know exactly what they are doing).

EDIT: Well yes, it will usable, but you will pay for the disc and then pay again to play it.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
If the MCV report is true, then I wonder if the "Kinect watches how many people are in the room and charges for content accordingly" rumor they also reported on is true too.

I just...man. Jeez.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
This is absolutely perfect for Microsoft. They get to determine the price of a used game, plus they get a large percentage of the sale. It's a win/win for them. Giant money making scam.
 

Jinko

Member
10% cut for retailers, man I would tell em to F right off if I was a retailer.

Retailer does all the hard work and gets basically nothing for it.
 

Owzers

Member
In a perfect world Sony would come out at their e3 conference and just lay into Microsoft's 3 operating systems requiring extra resources and online checks/used game stuff.
 

DoubleTap

Member
To actually hear these people say " I'm ok with this" or " sounds fair" disgusts me.

Have you ever this generation EVER bought a used game from amazon or eBay? How about a swapmeet? Mom and pop game shop? Ever buy a game from your friend? Borrow a game from your friend? Sell a game to your friend? Let them borrow a game?

This will all be lost with xbone. And you sit there and say " I'm ok with this?"

You lost private rights to sell, rent, or just fucking give away a game to charity.

Fuck you guys Serioulsy.

Exactly.
 
you forgot the bolded part, and THAT is the big deal.

My buddy wants to buy my copy for $35 because I frickin hated it? Nope.
I want to sell my copy on Amazon Marketplace? Nope.
Want to lend it to my friend after I've beaten it? Nope.
Like the fact that there are 40 copies of varying quality listed as used on Amazon and ebay? Nope.

The problem with this system is that the only WINNERS from it are the publishers. And at what expense? At the expense of the fucking user.

And here's the thing. If it were DRM, if it were to curb piracy? I mean those things suck, and sometimes user rights might be sacrificed slightly to help fight those things.

But this has NOTHING TO DO with piracy! This is fighting the used game market, which is a market that even under the STRICTEST copyright laws has EVERY RIGHT to exist!

So yeah, that's the big deal. It's greatly limiting the experience of the user to fight a problem that is, well... only a problem for the publishers, and frankly only a problem because games cost $60 and they need to sell 3M copies just to break even on their ridiculous budgets these days.



Given the information we have as of now... a) they can sell you the game for whatever they want, b) you are still going to have to pay the activation fee to play it.. aka full price.


sums it up nicely.

have you guys noticed the lack of media/podcast comments on the used game thing?

i've not heard anything about it... makes me worries that the general public is okay with this.
 
Fuck this shit. I just bought Armored Core For Answer used off eBay for like $15. Now I'd have to pay something like $25 MSRP or whatever for a used game from Microsoft's store??? That sucks!! Even if eBay becomes an official channel, WHY??
 
To actually hear these people say " I'm ok with this" or " sounds fair" disgusts me.

Have you ever this generation EVER bought a used game from amazon or eBay? How about a swapmeet? Mom and pop game shop? Ever buy a game from your friend? Borrow a game from your friend? Sell a game to your friend? Let them borrow a game?

This will all be lost with xbone. And you sit there and say " I'm ok with this?"

You lost private rights to sell, rent, or just fucking give away a game to charity.

Fuck you guys Serioulsy.

I answered no to all your questions. Thus yes, I'm okay with this.
 

Moobabe

Member
In a perfect world Sony would come out at their e3 conference and just lay into Microsoft's 3 operating systems requiring extra resources and online checks/used game stuff.

Or walk on stage and say "The system does not need to be connected to the internet EVER. There are no restrictions on what you can do with your games re: selling - now here's some awesome games. Enjoy"
 
Eurogamer have a huge update about this

...

What this means for second-hand games is that Microsoft effectively controls how much they cost, because it controls the activation fee. Whether that fee will move up or down or diminish over time isn't clear. But it does mean second-hand games will probably be more expensive than they are now.

So the consumer gets screwed both ways: Limited to selling their games only through Microsoft approved retailers like Gamestop, and also probably paying more for used games when they go there (and only there) to buy them?

How can people defend this? Seriously?
 

Arnie

Member
No, what upsets me is how anyone who has ever done the above of renting, selling, buying used is ok with this.

Something that was available before and a big part of gaming culture is being taken away. The movie industry doesn't do this, the music, the book industry....

But you're " ok with it"

Awesome.

Those industries don't have the endemic problem that the games industry does, though, in that costs to create this entertainment keep rising, and yet more and more people are choosing to buy used and cut the content creators out of the equation.

Used sales are legalised piracy, essentially. Not from the consumer's perspective (they certainly aren't guilty of anything), but from the end result.

I feel like there's a huge contradiction here on GAF. People are appalled by this, which is a move to cut out the used game problem that is killing off developers and even publishers, yet they want increasingly diverse and original entertainment.

That's not how it works. If the only games people buy new are shooters, then that's all people will make, because the fear of two big budget, original titles failing and tanking a huge company is very real. People might buy these off the wall, original IPs, but they're more likely to do it used at half the price.

I'm not thrilled about not being able to borrow Call of Duty from my friend when I fancy the odd game of zombies, but I'm not distraught about it, either. I'd be more bothered if my favourite developer went under or every game that game out involved killing things in some capacity, which is where this industry's going.
 

RetroStu

Banned
If GAME are going to have to re authenticate Xbox One games it's just gonna make sorting out all the traded in games even more annoying when things get busy. Oh Joy.

GAME was very apologetic and sticking up for the X1 on Wednesday when i went in the store in the middle of near riots over people complaining about the X1, it seemed to me that they were certainly looking at X1 being a big part of their future.
 
nope im not ok with this but what would you have me do ? i enjoy the ms franchises and exclusives and i love remedy (they are xbone exlusive as far as i know) so it doesnt concern me. i buy the system which has the games i like. if they wont deliver at e3 ill probably spent the money on upgrading my pc.

this is more than just playing games that you like however.
this is beyond purchasing a console because there's games you like for it.

this is exhibiting the very nature of how we buy and do things with it.

and if you're overlooking the latter, you just arn't getting it.

I answered no to all your questions. Thus yes, I'm okay with this.


GAHHHHHH
 
My friend doesn't have to pay a fee to John Deere when he uses my lawn mower.
Imagine how rich John Deere would be though if they did. Imagine the benefits, better blades, cheaper repairs and cheap lawn mowers. You just don't understand how backwards thinking you are. Times are a changing and it is awesome!
 

PopeReal

Member
Fuck this shit. I just bought Armored Core For Answer used off eBay for like $15. Now I'd have to pay something like $25 MSRP or whatever for a used game from Microsoft's store??? That sucks!! Even if eBay becomes an official channel, WHY??

How can eBay become an official channel for used XBox One games?

We are all private sellers. Microsoft is going to set up a way for me to sell their used games? Never going to happen. Private sales are over.
 
So what? Who lends £40 discs to get scratched to fuck anyway?

I have friends that I trust and always return my stuff in pristine condition. Sorry your friends suck.

Fuck this shit. I just bought Armored Core For Answer used off eBay for like $15. Now I'd have to pay something like $25 MSRP or whatever for a used game from Microsoft's store??? That sucks!! Even if eBay becomes an official channel, WHY??

I'm more sorry that you bought For Answer

I kid, I kid. =P

But yeah, it basically kills private selling.
 

ttech10

Member
or

1) Mattrick used to work for EA and has friends there...

2) Moneyhats


or yeah maybe its because of DRM

edit: i heard a rumour FIFA 14 ultimate team is exclusive to Xbox One on next gen platforms


thats fucking huge in europe if true :\

Which is just more proof that people can't just jump to conclusions. EA removing Online Passes could be completely unrelated to Microsoft's policy even. They could just not want to be the worst company in America three years running.

Sony has said they will not require a game to be registered online before it can be played. It would be down to publishers to implement such things (so like what EA had).

So games on their system could still use DRM, but it doesn't look like it's something forced like what Microsoft has. But maybe I'm just trying to convince myself this next console generation isn't a complete waste.
 

Snubbers

Member
You can have separate login ID's and store ID's on Apple. I share my store ID with my parents and my wife, but we all have our unique user ID's for iMessage, FaceTime, logging in, etc. Plus I don't spend more than $5 on a single item there except for Pixelmator.

I do something similar and don't bat an eye-lid, but it's still DRM that has zero secondhand value.. XB1 will allow multiple people to play it on the console it's activated on, and you can login on other consoles and people can play it..

I can see the difference, but I can't see that it's really much different at all, yet one is perfectly OK, the other is being satanised?

I keep saying I think it sucks, but I can't see a viable future for physical media with zero DRM, I don't necessarily like it, but as Android/iOS and Steam have proven, it's not all bad.. especially as there is second hand value in the product..
 

QaaQer

Member
Mine's not a Quattro. I bought a 6-series, which is the higest model without Quattro, as I had heard similar things about it.

glad to hear it. we actually bought three tvs at one time to test them side by side (+ 3 bluray players, and 3 of the same blu rays, lol!)
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
You really think that a company like MS would go this route if they were not sure it was legal? It's possible I guess, though unlikely.

ha. companies are sued all the time (especially in the EU) for trampling on consumer rights.

Honestly, that's how you operate as a company nowadays.. Trample on consumer rights, get away with it for as long as you can, pay some of that money back to users in the form of coupons or rebates, and then find out how far legally you CAN get away with screwing them.

I am pretty sure when MS goes to court in the EU over this, it definitely won't be the first time this decade they'll have gone, and it might not even be the only case they have being heard in the EU when it hits..

I keep saying I think it sucks, but I can't see a viable future for physical media with zero DRM, I don't necessarily like it, but as Android/iOS and Steam have proven, it's not all bad.. especially as there is second hand value in the product..

you can't (really) share or resell on steam... true. And definitely not on iOS (well, you can share appleIDs, but there are limits and potentially inconveniences, etc). The difference is on iOS you are talking typically 99¢-$5 apps. On Steam I can't lend my copy of Bioshock Infinite to my buddy, but if he really wants it he can be certain that within the first 120 days it will be half price at some point, and within the first 365 days it will likely be 75% off at some point.

We have ZERO reason to believe that will happen here. I mean even looking at Sony (currently the better of the two IMHO), you STILL have games that have long since dropped to $30-40 at retail, and are STILL $60 on PSN. And likewise games that are $30-40 on PSN that you can routinely get for under $20 in the store. While these companies are in charge of pricing (which this now puts them in charge of used pricing as well), do you really think given these existing policies that they will say "Oh... well it's a 5 year old game... a used copy I guess is worth $13". Oh hell no..
 

RetroStu

Banned
If GAME are going to have to re authenticate Xbox One games it's just gonna make sorting out all the traded in games even more annoying when things get busy. Oh Joy.

I'm guessing that they will be able to do beforehand (unless you mean when you trade them in).
Speaking of waiting times, does anyone here trade/sell games at CEX?, fuck me do they take their time in that store, you can be waiting over an hour literaly if its busy.
 

QaaQer

Member
I do something similar and don't bat an eye=lid, but it's still DRM that has zero secondhand value.. XB1 will allow multiple people to play it on the console it's activated on, and you can login on other consoles and people can play it..

I can see the difference, but I can't see that it's any really much different at all, yet one is perfectly OK, the other is being satanised?

I keep saying I think it sucks, but I can't see a viable future for physical media with zero DRM, I don't necessarily like it, but as Android/iOS and Steam have proven, it's not all bad..

the difference is competition. and it is a massive giant un-ignorable difference.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Those industries don't have the endemic problem that the games industry does, though, in that costs to create this entertainment keep rising, and yet more and more people are choosing to buy used and cut the content creators out of the equation.

Used sales are legalised piracy, essentially. Not from the consumer's perspective (they certainly aren't guilty of anything), but from the end result.

I feel like there's a huge contradiction here on GAF. People are appalled by this, which is a move to cut out the used game problem that is killing off developers and even publishers, yet they want increasingly diverse and original entertainment.

That's not how it works. If the only games people buy new are shooters, then that's all people will make, because the fear of two big budget, original titles failing and tanking a huge company is very real. People might buy these off the wall, original IPs, but they're more likely to do it used at half the price.

I'm not thrilled about not being able to borrow Call of Duty from my friend when I fancy the odd game of zombies, but I'm not distraught about it, either. I'd be more bothered if my favourite developer went under or every game that game out involved killing things in some capacity, which is where this industry's going.

It costs a lot to create movies, indie games exist. There is nothing in this industry that forces these losses. Nintendo made billions in profit last gen due to the wii and it's software which don't have exponential costs.
 

Moobabe

Member
Those industries don't have the endemic problem that the games industry does, though, in that costs to create this entertainment keep rising, and yet more and more people are choosing to buy used and cut the content creators out of the equation.

Used sales are legalised piracy, essentially. Not from the consumer's perspective (they certainly aren't guilty of anything), but from the end result.

I feel like there's a huge contradiction here on GAF. People are appalled by this, which is a move to cut out the used game problem that is killing off developers and even publishers, yet they want increasingly diverse and original entertainment.

That's not how it works. If the only games people buy new are shooters, then that's all people will make, because the fear of two big budget, original titles failing and tanking a huge company is very real. People might buy these off the wall, original IPs, but they're more likely to do it used at half the price.

I'm not thrilled about not being able to borrow Call of Duty from my friend when I fancy the odd game of zombies, but I'm not distraught about it, either. I'd be more bothered if my favourite developer went under or every game that game out involved killing things in some capacity, which is where this industry's going.

I expected more from you man!

It's not the consumers fault that Square- Enix needed to sell 6 million units of Tomb Raider to make a profit - it's theirs.
 
I cannot wait for used games to pop up on Craigslist/eBay/Amazon and then the buyer attempts to use it and gets locked out.

Oh God, the hilarity will almost be worth the death of the the used game market.
 
nope im not ok with this but what would you have me do ? i enjoy the ms franchises and exclusives and i love remedy (they are xbone exlusive as far as i know) so it doesnt concern me. i buy the system which has the games i like. if they wont deliver at e3 ill probably spent the money on upgrading my pc.
All Remedy games so far have come out on PC. In fact most of these games come out on PC.
 

BraXzy

Member
Who wants to pay for a preowned game that is £5 cheaper than brand new.. umless new games will be priced at £50 a pop.

As for rental services.. they will obviously have special discs/permissions that give people a games license to play for the limited time set. Doesn't mean the always on thing is justified.
 

coldfoot

Banned
The issue seems that we aren't willing to 'pay' a sustainable price for the games, we expect amazing games/assets but only want to pay the same price as 5 years ago..
The Souls' games have pretty cool graphics and their budgets are small.
Even an amazing looking game like UC2 had 20M budget.
 
Those industries don't have the endemic problem that the games industry does, though, in that costs to create this entertainment keep rising, and yet more and more people are choosing to buy used and cut the content creators out of the equation.

Used sales are legalised piracy, essentially. Not from the consumer's perspective (they certainly aren't guilty of anything), but from the end result.

I feel like there's a huge contradiction here on GAF. People are appalled by this, which is a move to cut out the used game problem that is killing off developers and even publishers, yet they want increasingly diverse and original entertainment.

That's not how it works. If the only games people buy new are shooters, then that's all people will make, because the fear of two big budget, original titles failing and tanking a huge company is very real. People might buy these off the wall, original IPs, but they're more likely to do it used at half the price.

I'm not thrilled about not being able to borrow Call of Duty from my friend when I fancy the odd game of zombies, but I'm not distraught about it, either. I'd be more bothered if my favourite developer went under or every game that game out involved killing things in some capacity, which is where this industry's going.

Original and diverse does not equal more expensive to produce. The reason people care about resale values is because these games aren't actually worth the money they are charging, so for many people it's only worth it if they can sell it after they play or buy it used.
 

Mael

Member
You really think that a company like MS would go this route if they were not sure it was legal? It's possible I guess, though unlikely.

That's the same company that greenlighted a remake of a game and near completed it without checking whether or not they had any right to do it...
 

Moobabe

Member
GAME was very apologetic and sticking up for the X1 on Wednesday when i went in the store in the middle of near riots over people complaining about the X1, it seemed to me that they were certainly looking at X1 being a big part of their future.

Unfortunately I can confirm that this is the official company line on the X1.
 

szaromir

Banned
How do you know they will receive a good enough cut? Seems to me that the publisher as well as MS might get the bigger cut leaving the developers in a similar shitty situation. There is no good coming out of this at all. MS is pocketing off used game sales.
Most retail console games are developed by publishers' internal studios. Making a distinction between developers and publishers is pointless for the most part. Independent devs should make sure in their contract that they get a cut of the used games sales
 
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