Sony can't, but publishers can probably code it into their PS4 games. Obviously you can just avoid those games at least.
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MCV: Retail sources talk used Xbox One games, £35 for used game in UK [U2: Eurogamer]
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
Sony can't, but publishers can probably code it into their PS4 games. Obviously you can just avoid those games at least.
seems a bit restrictive and will limit support to the big retail chains.
also means that you'll get less for your game when you trade in, depending what the cut is for the retailer. Which means less money available to buy more games (but more money in the hands of publishers and MS)
also means that you'll get less for your game when you trade in, depending what the cut is for the retailer. Which means less money available to buy more games (but more money in the hands of publishers and MS)
this will kill the buy/sell/trade here on neogaf.This.Fuck this shit.
i've bought so much stuff from fellow gaffers.yeah in the end big publishers win since gamers with less money will take less chances and only buy AAA games. guess a lot of people will stop buying games and just wait for them to have bomba sales which isn't going to be good in the end for publishers but i doubt they care what happens long term.
semiconscious
Member
that was then, this is now. this's the gaming industry, via the xbone, attempting to fabricate a new consumer perception of what it means to 'buy' something, & to 'own' something. it's called rentier capitalism for a reason...
Wolves Evolve
Member
This is why the console checks in every 24 hours.
Oh my god. You bastards.
It's worse than even I, the king of the divon, had imagined.
Oh my god. You bastards.
It's worse than even I, the king of the divon, had imagined.
metalslimer
Member
Exactly, Sony is global company in too many nations that don't have great access to the internet to try this. MS has made the Fuck Yeah America box, so they don't give two shits how many countries they fuck over with this. Basically Microsoft will have almost zero deals in smaller countries so everyone there will be fucked over. But hey, why would you want to live there?!
TheDrowningMan
Member
Then what? I suppose people who aren't utter lackeys opt for a console without that stuff. But that, of course, is assuming Sony go through with it. There's hope that, at the very least, their version isn't nearly as extreme.
If I cannot sell my games at any point, I want an absolute cast-iron guarantee that the servers will be active for at least 30 years, with purchased games unhindered. Perpetual backwards compatibility *must* be confirmed before I jump on board.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Well, not unless they want to pay full price to install it on their system. This also kills ebay, Amazon, Gamefly, Craigslist, Redbox, etc... How is this is good?
I understand some people enjoy putting publishers and Microsoft's interests above their own, but I don't. It's real nice that upon buying a preplayed game a cut of the sale goes to the publisher AND Microsoft?! What business does Microsoft have in getting anything from a second sale? Oh wait, I guess all of the money they get from stupid consumers can pay for celebrities to pimp their system at E3.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Sorry but says who?
On stage at Sony's reveal they said they were building a huge cloud network for streaming and the gaikai stuff.
'the cloud' is just server farms at the end of the day and Sony have plenty of those.
UberTag
Member
Gamefly is screwed.
Mom and pop shop indie stores are screwed.
GameStop wins.
Greedy publishers win.
Developers are still screwed.
Microsoft wins.
Gamers lose.
I can see Microsoft starting up their own rental service through Xbox LIVE (once again where publishers and MS would cash-in) where games would instantly delete themselves (or, more likely, prompt you to buy them or pay another rental fee) after a 48-hour period. Most likely piecemeal per game. The Gamefly model isn't viable for them.
Mom and pop shop indie stores are screwed.
GameStop wins.
Greedy publishers win.
Developers are still screwed.
Microsoft wins.
Gamers lose.
I can see Microsoft starting up their own rental service through Xbox LIVE (once again where publishers and MS would cash-in) where games would instantly delete themselves (or, more likely, prompt you to buy them or pay another rental fee) after a 48-hour period. Most likely piecemeal per game. The Gamefly model isn't viable for them.
MrCunningham
Member
Yes true, but I was still expecting the disc reactivation method to be much worse than what was described here. But this doesn't change how I feel about this.
amstradcpc
Member
But if the buyer must pay full price or near full price, he would better buy the cheaper downloadable version ( i supposse there will be downloadable versions and that they will be cheaper ) or instead buy in retail a disc that is new...
Something is fishy here. Many people want to get profit ( gamestop, MS and the publisher ) from second hand and the customer is the screwed one as before he got all the money from the second hand sale.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Basically this.
All it is, is Microsoft planting themselves between the consumer and the publisher to earn extra money off of their software.
Yup.
I can't believe they are going to protect gamestop and prevent lending to a friend or sibling. Actually, I can believe that, I can't believe they are going to get away with it. But they will.
I can guarantee you the downloadable version will not be cheaper if there is pretty much no used game market. Considering the game installs, you're basically buying the downloadable version but you get to keep a disc as a souvenir in case you want to get a couple dollars back when you're done and don't want the game anymore.
metalslimer
Member
Unless Sony has a different method, this won't work. They were vague about used games, but have already said you don't need the internet for a PS4.
if the retailer only gets £5 of the resold game, they're not going to pay you anything for the game you trade in anyway. So why even bother trading in the game?
Everyone that has finished a game should just smash the disc and upload a video of it to youtube
zomgbbqftw
Banned
I think the furthest Sony will go is allow third parties to sell games with one time activation keys which need to be bought via PSN for a small fee when you buy the game used and the key has already been used.
As long as they limit the fee to £5-10 I would be alright with it. Just a logical extension of Online Pass.
I think it's absolutely unnecessary though and Sony could just play hardball with the publishers and force them to support PS4 by attaching it to PS3.
As long as they limit the fee to £5-10 I would be alright with it. Just a logical extension of Online Pass.
I think it's absolutely unnecessary though and Sony could just play hardball with the publishers and force them to support PS4 by attaching it to PS3.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Sony's console does NOT require an internet connection, or intermittent connections to 'the cloud' in order to function - therefore there's no way they can use it as a means to control licenses of software.
Remember when Batman Arkham City had the Catwoman DLC to decentivize used game sales....but WB just sold the DLC codes to Gamestop so they could sell it along side used games?
The Incarnation
Member
It could, but not in the way you are thinking, they're taking a risk publishing on the Xbox One to begin with.
No such risk with the PS4, which is maybe why they're willing to let the used game thing go. I'm sure they were fully aware of the direction the Xbox One is going in. They know the PS4 is focused on games, so they will sell.
The Xbox One is a different animal, it could flop harder than the Wii U even if it didn't mess around on the used game thing.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I long argued this, but it won't be that cheap. They'll be £15 minimum in my opinion.
£5 is just ridiculously low.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Hmm, I see what you mean.
metalslimer
Member
If theoretically Sony wanted to play hardball, they would have a huge advantage. People really think publishers are going to avoid Sony at this point?
amstradcpc
Member
Depend on the sales made for example on ebay vs the ones made in gamestop before. I think there are more people now that sell games by their own that by a reseller. The fortunate ones will be the reselers associated with MS, the rest will be screwed.
Glorified G
Member
Is there any industry who uses this warped logic:
In any other form of entertainment this practice would be laughable, but for some reason with gamers (or at least a lot of them) it's different.
I think Sony can also pitch this to publishers in a way to keep their business.
Sony allowing used sales, and MS not, allows publishers to do some nice A:B comparisons based on new Vs used sales, maybe actually allowing them to figure out whether used sales really do impact revenues.
MS' approach is good for Publisher 'A' of the game being traded in, but removes money from the consumer which may be spent on other games, so may negatively impact Publisher B of the game the consumer may otherwise have bought. Having two systems live in the market allows some data to be gathered on that.
blitzcloud
Banned
what if it wipes the achievements and/or save games related psvita style?
True, but a pub could use an activation system that requires the buyer to go online for a once off activation anyway, treat the game like an online game. I mean, this was even technically possible on PS3.
I don't think Sony can mandate a universal system though, if the system 'can be enjoyed with an internet connection at all'. That supposes there will be some chunk of games that don't need the net at least.
I want an xbone though, it seems ms doesnt want me to want one.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Not to bring up a tired comment, but publishers were more than happy to ignore the Wii.
Don't put anything past publishers.
Yeah I am always baffled by people thinking that someone deserves a cut of my privately sold property.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
47% of revenue made on consoles by third party publishers was made on Sony's platforms. According to data compiled by my bank. Publishers would be playing with fire if they tried to cut Sony off. Which is why they won't, a compromise will be sought and Sony will limit them to £10 for activation keys sold via PSN or even in the shops themselves. However, this doesn't help users who want to stay offline and play used games.
It's not even close to the same situation. Sony throwing publishers off PS3 would be the end of the line for many of them. They can't afford not to release PS3 games, and for Sony the damage would be very limited this late in the generation. Sony could play hardball and attach PS3 releases to PS4 releases and the publishers would not be able to do very much about it.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
If there's no competition for second hand sales even with this procedure, shit is going to be worthless
Say Gamestop buys in
You buy your $70 BF4, play it, get tired 1-2 months in return it to GS and they offer only $25-$30 for tops
They turn around sell it for say $60-$65 "Pre-Owned"
So MS and Pub get a cut from your resell say $5-$10, then when that new used copy sells get another $10-$20
They just made close to $100 off one copy of BF4, repeat
This may look great, but if there is no competition from other retailers, Gamestop can force any TIV (trade-in-value) MS/Pub asks it to be
Pub knows people are trading in their shitacular title and ask MS to force the resell to be $10-$20, even though title is less than a month old and still selling $70 new
Forcing GS to lower it and any other retailers using the program/service
GS had competition in the form of Best Buy and their 100% Trade-In's, really started eating into GS monopoly/cash cow, GS challenged and rose TIV's across the board, started adding those same deals with twist that still benefited them
So MS + Pubs + GS/Retailers that want to get in on this will literally hold hostage the market, the users will be at the mercy of their prices
There's a reason second hand sales have checks and balances, and so many avenues to sell your item, competition breeds good prices, deals, etc.
Collusion on the other hand will stagnant the market, less purchases, might even detract newer purchases
Say Gamestop buys in
You buy your $70 BF4, play it, get tired 1-2 months in return it to GS and they offer only $25-$30 for tops
They turn around sell it for say $60-$65 "Pre-Owned"
So MS and Pub get a cut from your resell say $5-$10, then when that new used copy sells get another $10-$20
They just made close to $100 off one copy of BF4, repeat
This may look great, but if there is no competition from other retailers, Gamestop can force any TIV (trade-in-value) MS/Pub asks it to be
Pub knows people are trading in their shitacular title and ask MS to force the resell to be $10-$20, even though title is less than a month old and still selling $70 new
Forcing GS to lower it and any other retailers using the program/service
GS had competition in the form of Best Buy and their 100% Trade-In's, really started eating into GS monopoly/cash cow, GS challenged and rose TIV's across the board, started adding those same deals with twist that still benefited them
So MS + Pubs + GS/Retailers that want to get in on this will literally hold hostage the market, the users will be at the mercy of their prices
There's a reason second hand sales have checks and balances, and so many avenues to sell your item, competition breeds good prices, deals, etc.
Collusion on the other hand will stagnant the market, less purchases, might even detract newer purchases
UberTag
Member
Would be amusing to see a scenario where GameStop REFUSES trade-ins of most non-triple AAA titles due to their smaller profit margins and the limited shelf space they would have on-hand. They're not going to want your 6-month old copy of Harvest Moon any more.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
If Sony finds a way around this, they could very well secure the market if they push it hard.
amstradcpc
Member
Then, if downloadable new versions are more expensive than second hand... nobody would buy the game new and everybody would wait for the second hand one, as it is basically a digital version too...
If retail cut was as little as 10%...I doubt Gamestop would be very happy about this and tweeting that everything was OK, and promoting preorders on the system. I think they'd at least have cause to hesitate on it.
I find it hard to believe Gamestop would accept that small a cut.