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[Giolon]

Curiously, there's always something "high priority".

BTW, did people here know that LB-X/Standard round swapping for Clan LB-X ACs has been cancelled? Something about "nightmare code" or such. What a surprise. Somehow i doubt they ever intended to do that...

Given all the shit that needed to be done like Community Warfare, fixing HSR, etc. of course there are things more important to fix than spending time crafting a newbie tutorial. As lame as the skill trees are, they work. They provide some progression. They provide some way to measurably improve your mechs. I really do hope they get pulled soon for something that makes more sense on an individual chassis basis, and ideally something less grindy (though I'm not holding my breath for that. It is an F2P business after all).

And no, I don't think they were lying that they said they wanted to add C-LBX/AC ammo switching at some point (again dependent on priorities). I'm a software developer. There's lots of shit that our Product Managers want us to do, and we say "yeah, we should be able to do that" and sometimes you then go and look at the code that makes the feature work and it's like "Eeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh, this is not a good idea based on X, Y, or Z" and then we don't do it. In fact I'm dealing with that right now.

Not everything comes down to maliciousness or deception. Sometimes you run into practical realities. You only have X number of zots to devote to development. How do you best spend them at any given time? If you were hanging your hat on the belief that MWO would absolutely get ammo switching at some point, I don't know what to tell you. It's possible it still will, but it's now less likely than before.

 

[Woorloog]

Oh, i know that. Just disagree with some directions MWO is going to, and what the priorities should be. And that's keeping within what MWO is and ignoring my wish for a more hardcore, sim-like mech game.
And i wasn't accusing them of being malicious, just accusing them of promising stuff and then "forgetting" about it (there was an awful long silence about the ammo-switching).
I dislike empty promises, whether they're intentional or not; one reason i am really disinterested in gaming in general nowadays (i cannot recall the last time i was really interested in a game), too many non-existent and empty promises, along with other things.

I do think the ammo switching should be implemented, because it would also allow for LRM/SRM alternate munitions: Infernos, Smoke, FASCAM/Thunder (mines), Swarm, and whatever else there's in BT.
Would make a perfect money-making scheme anyway, if small stuff actually sells. If.
Consider: Standard alternate ammo, eg Infernos cost C-bills, must be replenished unlike standard ammo. Or you can buy improved special ammo for MC, in extra large packs, must be replenished, with GXP buyable perks to improve them.
It isn't like the game is not P2W already by strict definitions (P2W can mean just buying a limited advantage).


I'd argue a tutorial for newbies is quite important in a F2P game. As long as it isn't like in WoT... though that maybe just me, the tutorial was insultingly hand-holding while managing to stay too vague overall. (Curiously, both, hand-holding and vagueness seem to be common elements in modern tutorials. Or i just perceive them as such. Either way i cannot recall the last time i saw tutorial i liked.)

Perhaps a strict tutorial is not the best idea anyway, rather some kind newbies only mode (including free customization to teach that aspect of the game) might be a better idea. Of course, it would be also more complicated than just a tutorial.

EDIT The last i read, it seems like CW isn't very popular compared to standard matchmaking. Any idea why?
I know i disliked CW because finding a game is annoyingly slow due to lack of matchmaking, and because getting matched against a large party kills all the fun right away. Perhaps that's a common experience among players?

 

[Giolon]

It's my misunderstanding then. I mostly agree with the position you elaborated on.

As far as CW popularity, I'd say it mainly boils down to a couple factors.

1) The lack of separate group and solo queues means going in as a casual player means the odds of getting ROFLBBQ-stomped by pre-mades is quite high. 12-man groups get to dictate where they attack, and the defenders at that point are frequently pulled from notices sent to disparate people.

2) While winning in CW can pay extremely well, losing in CW pays horribly for the time invested. This could be fixed by making contracts payout something on a loss instead of being all or nothing.

When you combine the odds are high that you're likely to lose going in as a solo player with the fact that once you do lose you see that the money is absolutely garbage, you just hop in there once or twice and never go back.

 

[Ketch]

so i just tried it out, and things they've added since I played last include like all of the maps (I think there were 3 last time I played), a ton of bonus c-bills for noobs, and a ton more trial mechs. It was, but I don't know how much i'll play it moving forward.

 

[Shaitan]

Honestly, I dont play CW for the money. I play it for the increase in complexity and excitement. In CW your actions have a much more lasting effect whether in the match or out of it when you influence a planet. That being said, I do think the reward should be higher.

Also, and I know I will get some hate here, CW is not for pugs. Going in by yourself, you should not expect a win or a fair match. The "community" in the title makes it very clear that this is a team game mode. As a follow up to that,separating group and solo queues would never work since the population density is too low and that will likely never change as long as there is a normal drop option. Despite all this, there are very few things more enjoyable than leading a good pug group to crush a premade (only happens once in a while).

Finally, join a unit! It makes the entire game (CW and normal drops) 10x better. Even if you only play a bit, the camaraderie and ability to use teamwork makes each game a lot more fun.

 

[Shaitan]

Also, this game is in no way P2W. Its pay to get early access, but not P2W. I can not think of a single aspect that cannot be earned that gives an unfair advantage, especially since they started giving out mech bays in events and as CW rank rewards.

 

[Shaitan]

For those who enjoyed Mech Warrior 2. Its Director is kickstarting a new game (not a mech game sadly)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/impellerstudios/starfighter-inc?ref=hero_thanks

A real cool point is that is will be using Newtonian physics as described by the lead designer in the intro video. The lead designer is David Wessman, who worked on Tie Fighter and X-Wing.

I'm looking at you Woorloog. This seems like it has you written all over it since they are taking a simulator approach it seems.

 

[K.Jack]

I messed with the new Mechlab for a while on the test server. It's a great start that needs some tweaks.

 

[Woorloog]

Is this new mechlab testing just temporary, asking for feedback for tweaks before releasing it? Or is it just bug fixing now, with release soon and tweaks coming later (or never)?

BTW, the special variants for the next Resistance mechs look terrible.

Also, CTF-0x. Wonder if they put the ballistic hardpoint up high like in the art...

I'm looking at you Woorloog. This seems like it has you written all over it since they are taking a simulator approach it seems.

Not really. Not really a fan of of space fighters (as a controllable craft, or even as a concept). Will give them a pass in Star Wars and Battletech but that's about it. (Yes, yes, i know mechs are not particularly realistic, Battletech is a funny exception.)

Both Eliteangerous and Star Citizen also have newtonian physics, yet you don't see me talking about them, nor am i interested in either.

I was interested in the former for a moment because it does have quite a lot of things i like but when it became a online-only game, i lost a lot interest. And anything left when it became apparent typical flying speeds in the game are around 500m/s, which is nothing in realistic space combat. And dogfighting? If i wanted that kind of combat, i'd just play an older sim, IL-2 Sturmovik or X-Wing Alliance or Freelancer (not that the latter two are really sims).

I'll make an exception the day there's an AeroTech game but considering how niche that part is in Battletech, i doubt such will ever happen.

Call me when there's a space combat game that combines realism with focus on big ships, ie you're the captain. Star Trek Bridge Commander and I-War are just about the only games i know do this.

 

[Woorloog]

Figure i could try MWO again for a change.
...
7GBs of patches? And downloading them takes 2.5h? Oookaay... why is this so goddamn slow? And that is ignoring the time it will take to install the patches.
Probably faster to delete the game and download a fresh installer and use it...

Sigh.

And i just realized i really wanna see my inventory (everything, really) on the MWO website, wouldn't need to launch the game to see what do i have and what do i need when planning builds.
I fear i've sold the XL360 engine i had since i've sold my Dragon...

 

[Giolon]

Actually, if you haven't played in a while, you basically did so a reinstall. In early April, I think, they changed the file format from being a few giant PAK files to individual resource bundles.

On the plus side, they added some new optimization in DX11 mode yesterday that people are saying gave them large performance improvements.

 

[Woorloog]

I need to update my graphics drivers as well, the last time i did something with them, it was to downgrade them so that i could play Tiberian Sun without issues...

Is MWO really coming to Steam as i occasionally see people claiming? Honestly, can't wait for it, wouldn't have to deal with stuff like being surprised by 7GB patch as often, Steam having auto-downloads etc. (This is ignoring the fact i don't keep Steam up to date either, or use it often. At least it has about 50% faster download speed compared to the MWO launcher).

 

[Giolon]

The last I heard Russ say something about it it was that their goal was for Steam in late summer. I think it was during one of his town halls w/ NGNG. Before that happens though, they want to get their new, "new user experience" out there which includes some sort of AI bots.

New Mechlab comes in the next patch if all goes well. I used it on the PTS and it's a massive improvement over UI 2.0. However, it's not as good as it could be. A forum user made some fantastic suggestions and PGI seemed very receptive to them, but it's unknown if/when they will be incorporated.

 

[Woorloog]

I see.

Speaking of mechlabs... did they fix the Jagermech's guns? That is, do they look like they used to, pre-Jagermech mode update? Or at least close to that...

 

[Giolon]

Russ just tweeted this yesterday on that: https://twitter.com/russ_bullock/status/601233474125570048

Don't know the when though.

I want them to come back and fix the K2's tiny PPCs

 

[Woorloog]

...
Sigh.
My best killing machine is still unusable then.

 

[K.Jack]

Game will be DOA to Steam, if they don't triple rewards.

 

[Woorloog]

All i care are Steam auto-updates and faster download speeds (and patch installation). The game's own launcher is terrible. It is slow to download and install patches, and eats massive amounts of system resources.

 

[El'Kharn]

Those bans..

 

[Woorloog]

What are you talking about?

EDIT oh, cheaters?

EDIT Uh, they made the account names public? That is unusual...

 

[El'Kharn]

kinda like pouring a bucket of blood into a shark tank

 

[K.Jack]

I like the public shaming. Because fuck cheaters.

 

[Giolon]

Smurfy-style mechlab is here and it's pretty great! Finally, filters for used weapons only, edit and view all locations at the same time, no more popping out to another screen for upgrades. I love it!

Less loveable - Quirk information is hidden away in the "Mech Stats" in the lower right corner which you have to expand to see, and doing so covers up part of the expanded mechlab view. Mech selection is a little worse than before, but better than the old "Select Mech" screen since it has filters now.

 

[K.Jack]

Smurfy-style mechlab is here and it's pretty great! Finally, filters for used weapons only, edit and view all locations at the same time, no more popping out to another screen for upgrades. I love it!

Less loveable - Quirk information is hidden away in the "Mech Stats" in the lower right corner which you have to expand to see, and doing so covers up part of the expanded mechlab view. Mech selection is a little worse than before, but better than the old "Select Mech" screen since it has filters now.

Yeah I really like the changes.

Mech Select isn't so bad if you sort by class, as that gives you back the grid select instead of drop down menus.

Also, the Clan UAC changes are strooong. My favorite weapon, the UAC20, feels really good now with the shells clearing the barrel faster.

Dire Wolf might be super OP now.

 

[Giolon]

MASC is great. Going from 0 to top speed in an assault in less than 2 seconds is great. Same for going from full forward to full reverse.

Can't wait until this shows up on other mechs.

 

[Woorloog]

How exactly does it do? Just increase acceleration? Or also speed?

PGI still doesn't bother explaining things properly... I still have no idea what target computers do exactly (on the account of the stats for them not being available outside the game... at least not in places i visit).

EDIT Oh, wait, i forgot to check the patch notes. Still, they have no good channels for information.

EDIT 2 Left alt...? What did i have bound there... zoom most likely (my mouse wheel sucks), which is very unfortunate as i use it a lot.

 

[Giolon]

Actually, targeting computers have detailed tooltips now in the new mechlab. You just have to click on them first (like most equipment I think?)

In short, they increase zoom, increase ballistic projectile speeds, increase energy weapon range, and increase crit chance (but not on high crit weapons like MGs or LBX) to varying degrees depending on how large of a TC you put in. The best bang for your buck though is TC Mk I at only 1 ton.

 

[Woorloog]

I said outside the game :/ Don't think Smurfy (for example) lists the exact effects.
Nor does MWO's own site have database for items anywhere.

MASC implementation seems to be reasonable due to speed-cap and engine issues. About how i thought it could be fine.

The Zeus for C-bills and Jagermech AC scaling fixed (apparently?)... hrrm. Might be a good time to re-install the game, it is a couple of weeks till the next patch after all.

 

[Lime]

Haven't been checking up on this game for a while, but a new mech pack has been announced:

Jenner IIC, Hunchback IIC, Orion IIC, Highlander IIC

I also just had a thought that I would really love if the games from the 90's, especially MW2 and Mechcommander, would come to GOG and/or Steam.

 

[Woorloog]

Well it was only a matter of time before Clan BattleMechs would be introduced.

A shame the selection is... uninspiring.
Probably chosen because they can be made quickly by modifying existing designs (EDIT They claim it is new art though *shrug*), and because nearly all other IICS either don't exists in the 3050s or are based on the Unseen. (Plus the usual "does the mech have enough variants yet" question.)

Damn it. Would have loved Marauder, Rifleman or Warhammer IIC. (Admittedly none of them have more than 2 variants by 3050, not that this should stop PGI from making a P variant.)

I really don't get the aversion PGI has for those, the IS or Clan versions, as long as the MWO versions use art based on the Reseen or just new art.
WizKids used Warhammer and Marauder IIC (Reseen) in their Mechwarrior: Dark Age/Age of Destruction lineup, Catalyst Gamelabs has no issues showing art of the Reseen or producing miniatures for them. I really don't see how there could be any legal issues, unless it is just about PGI covering their own asses just in case, no matter how remote.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Well it was only a matter of time before Clan BattleMechs would be introduced.

A shame the selection is... uninspiring.
Probably chosen because they can be made quickly by modifying existing designs (EDIT They claim it is new art though *shrug*), and because nearly all other IICS either don't exists in the 3050s or are based on the Unseen. (Plus the usual "does the mech have enough variants yet" question.)

Damn it. Would have loved Marauder, Rifleman or Warhammer IIC. (Admittedly none of them have more than 2 variants by 3050, not that this should stop PGI from making a P variant.)

I really don't get the aversion PGI has for those, the IS or Clan versions, as long as the MWO versions use art based on the Reseen or just new art.
WizKids used Warhammer and Marauder IIC (Reseen) in their Mechwarrior: Dark Age/Age of Destruction lineup, Catalyst Gamelabs has no issues showing art of the Reseen or producing miniatures for them. I really don't see how there could be any legal issues, unless it is just about PGI covering their own asses just in case, no matter how remote.

When this game was going to be Mechwarrior 5 before being turned into MWO, they got flak from Harmony Gold for showing the reseen mechs in their original trailer and things went silent for a while. Think they just rather not touch the subject at this point

 

[Woorloog]

When this game was going to be Mechwarrior 5 before being turned into MWO, they got flak from Harmony Gold for showing the reseen mechs in their original trailer and things went silent for a while. Think they just rather not touch the subject at this point

Oh, right, i forgot that.
But they made a slight mistake of using the unseen Warhammer as a basis for their Warhammer in the trailer.
Figure if it had been a Reseen, it would have gone better, though of course many casual Mechwarrior fans would have been like "What is that mech", doubt the reseen are that known outside BT fans. (I recall being surprised when i read about them the first time.)

Of course the real issue is Harmony Gold. Fuck Harmony Gold.

 

[Lime]

Oh, right, i forgot that.
But they made a slight mistake of using the unseen Warhammer as a basis for their Warhammer in the trailer.
Figure if it had been a Reseen, it would have gone better, though of course many casual Mechwarrior fans would have been like "What is that mech", doubt the reseen are that known outside BT fans. (I recall being surprised when i read about them the first time.)

Of course the real issue is Harmony Gold. Fuck Harmony Gold.

Funny enough, Harmony Gold just got bought by Sony recently

Maybe they'll be more cooperative

 

[Woorloog]

Huh.
Maybe... I hope so.
Though even if they're, the Unseen are probably going to stay that way but that's OK, we got Reseen (though some really need redesigns). All they need to do is to be OK with them... after all really have no say over them as they're original art (that is at most influenced by the originals).

 

[K.Jack]

Russ did say that he was going to call Harmony Gold again.

I for one can't wait for the Hunchback IIC. I'll throw a couple UAC10s on it and have a load of fun.

 

[Woorloog]

I admit Hunchie IIC might be fun despite calling the lineup uninspiring. My issues is largely that they're mechs we already have in some form.
Dual LB-20Xs sound fun really (twin giant shotguns, what's not to love?), coupled with reasonable speed a medium chassis would allow.
Of course, there are issues with ammo endurance and armor... By default, the mech carries about 55% armor, i'd prefer at least 70% but finding space for everything is difficult.

(Oh and the Orion IIC? It never had any variants. Thus anything PGI makes, they're "non-canonical" variants. So the argument, like i suggested above ironically enough, that "must have enough variants" is no longer valid, indeed hasn't been for a long time now really.)


Also having a terrible deja vu right now, as if i have written this exact thing before.

 

[Giolon]

Funny enough, Harmony Gold just got bought by Sony recently

Maybe they'll be more cooperative

Uh, that's not true even remotely true. Sony bought the rights for a Robotech movie from Harmony Gold. That much is clear.

It's been pretty widely reported that they bought the entire rights to Robotech, but I read some clarification somewhere that it was literally the rights to the live-action movies only.

The originating report is here: http://variety.com/2015/film/news/robotech-movie-sony-tv-series-anime-1201460191/

Sadly, Harmony Gold endures, and so likely does its stranglehold over Macross.

 

[Lime]

Thanks for the correction, Giolon. I knew it was too good to be true

 

[Woorloog]

The concept art for the mechs is out (apparently from Russ' twitter?).

They do look pretty nice... unfortunately this applies to every single concept art in MWO. That is, all art looks better than anything in-game.

And of course, the concept art paint-job helps, the drab single color mechs have by default looks terrible.

Nice to see they made the Jenner IIC a chicken walker.

 

[Giolon]

I've been wracking my brain over how they are going to balance these things. Clan weaponry w/ IS build rules can't possibly work...

Russ did say during the town hall this week that they're testing a completely new method for balancing all the mechs that will do away with Quirks as we know them. Hopefully that'll work out, and with an overall reduction in the power creep that's set in since Clans were introduced.

 

[Woorloog]

I doubt the power creep will really go away. It is effective method for selling stuff.
Sure things can be evened every now and then but it just resets the field for a moment.

I think actually balancing the IS and Clan tech is impossible unless radical changes are made.
The Battle Value system the tabletop game uses works mostly but it cannot be really translated to a game that is strictly 12v12, and pretty sure testing indicated asymmetric systems would not work due to focus fire and other factors most likely.

Mechwarrior IV, and especially the MekTek Mekpaks, tried to balance things by throwing away the tabletop systems though ultimately ClanTech was still superior in most cases.
Mixed tech wouldn't really help either... probably, considering most Clan weapons are superior despite some drawbacks (like higher heat for their lasers as they're ER versions).

(I've come to realize i don't really care for Clans as IS adversaries in Battletech, but Clan versus Clan stuff, like the Wars of Reaving is good stuff.)

---

I think that despite the Battle Value used in the Tabletop games, the current developers see Clan tech as something of an issue. The Dark Age era rules actually make mixed tech common and all IS nations have access to pure ClanTech designs.
The developers and writers have implied Clan-level tech will become standard in the future for all of humankind in Battletech. It is just a matter of when.


Oh, and speaking of that, there are new Battletech novels coming in the future. They're unofficially official, presumably they will be revealed officially once the current Dark Age storyline concludes this year or the next in the IlClan sourcebook (Timeline guess: 3150-3175.)

 

[Woorloog]

I love the idea of light mechs. (And commando classes and other similar things from other games.)
But i cannot play them.
I lack the subtlety and patience they need.

In retrospect, i have no idea why i bought the Jenner Oxide. I like its idea a lot, it is a damn torpedo-boat!
But i can't play properly with it.

Just annoyed my first game in months ends with me dying in a couple of minutes, someone effectively one-shotting my side torso. Because i wasn't on the move like i should be. My own fault really.

 

[Woorloog]

Anyone ever see any Quickdraw pilots?
Wondering out of curiosity, as the mech is regarded a bit weak, IIRC, partially due to its size.

The QKD-5K seems pretty good actually, with 6 medium lasers and 360XL engine. Good quirks for that. Laser vomit, i guess, but it works.

 

[K.Jack]

Nah I never see many QKDs. Even with the event running, I rarely see any IV-4s out there. The most you'll get is a 4H or 5K every once in a blue moon.

Good news is that it may be getting rescaled, to be much smaller than its Atlas height. That alone would have you seeing far many more of them out there.

 

[Giolon]

Even with their quirks Quickdraws are considered among the worst of the IS heavies. Likely because they have jumpjets, none of them got quirks as good as some of the Dragon's did - and even the crazy ones (the 1N, the Flame) still only really work as one trick ponies with specific highly quirked builds.

 

[Woorloog]

https://mwomercs.com/origins

They're up for pre-order.

Note the hardpoints, none of the mechs seem to be stellar when it comes to hardpoints. The Jenner IIC is probably the best.
Of course, they're Clan mechs so they're going to be good-ish at very least, assuming the models and hitboxes are not terrible.

EDIT no comment on how quirks affect them as they're not revealed.

 

[K.Jack]

Hunch IIC is going to be insanely good, while the other 3 do know less than obsolete their IS counterparts, due to the strength of the Clan XL engine.

 

[Lime]

Man, I'm so excited about the rumor with Harebrained Schemes possibly doing something with Battletech. I know it's much more likely it's Crimson Skies, but hoo boy would I love if they did the same to Battletech as they did to Shadowrun.

 

[K.Jack]

Man, I'm so excited about the rumor with Harebrained Schemes possibly doing something with Battletech. I know it's much more likely it's Crimson Skies, but hoo boy would I love if they did the same to Battletech as they did to Shadowrun.

I'm still holding out hope for it being Mechcommander 3.

 

[Lime]

I'm looking into starting to play this game again - I never got to try CW (I'm a lone wolf so), but how has the matchmaking been in regards to playing CW as a lone wolf? Is there still long queues for solo players? And will solo players still get steamrolled when doing CW?