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[ZeoVGM]

Oh Tabris, just stop.

 

[Phife Dawg]

You didn't call them conceptually shitty? What part of them is shitty, their packaging?

And if you weren't talking about BT and AC, which shitty non-games were you referring to as clogging up the charts?

Well you have Common Knowledge Training, English Training, Kanji Test x2 and the Nintendo Cook Book. And man did these titles run amok in the Top 50.
This whole non-games agenda is gettind old and tiresome. All these titles are not games, that is right, I would refer to them simply as applications. When Iwata was talking about non-games he was referring to AC, which doesn't follow a conservative game's formula (e.g. no "goal", no levels). In this context Sims is as much a non-game as Spore will probably be.
I know trolls should be ignored but this is getting ridiculous.

 

[Deku]

Phife I would make a minor correction. Animal Crossing has goals except the goals are more general. I describe it as a single player MMO. The whole game experience is geared towards wealth accumulation and collecting trinkets. This is the effective hook of most MMOs today.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Phife I would make a minor correction. Animal Crossing has goals except the goals are more general. I describe it as a single player MMO. The whole game experience is geared towards wealth accumulation and collecting trinkets. This is the effective hook of most MMOs today.

I certainly consider AC a game, I was just stating why Iwata refered to it as a non-game. I totally agree with you.
Makes all these "non-game are f*ing up the charts" people even more ridiculous. All the software they are refering to as non-games are not games at all, as I said more like applications or "learning-software" (if such a term exists).
I mean my PC is full of this stuff (typewriter training etc.) I guess it's a non-gaming machine :lol .

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Most games on the top 30 charts for the DS are non-games nowadays, Viscen.

my bad

 

[Totalriot]

From gamefront.de:

Bandai Namco hat in der ersten Woche der Veröffentlichung ca. 180.000 Einheiten von Gundam Musou in Japan verkaufen können. Das geht aus Erhebungen des Einzel- und Großhändlers Tsutaya hervor.

Der Absatz der PS3 soll sich - unter Berüchsichtigung des Gundam Musou-Bundles - im Vorwochenvergleich verdoppelt haben.

180,000 units of Gundam Musou sold last week, number of PS3 doubled (including the Gundam Musou Bundle)

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

From gamefront.de:

Bandai Namco hat in der ersten Woche der Veröffentlichung ca. 180.000 Einheiten von Gundam Musou in Japan verkaufen können. Das geht aus Erhebungen des Einzel- und Großhändlers Tsutaya hervor.

Der Absatz der PS3 soll sich - unter Berüchsichtigung des Gundam Musou-Bundles - im Vorwochenvergleich verdoppelt haben.

180,000 units of Gundam Musou sold last week, number of PS3 doubled (including the Gundam Musou Bundle)

So, PS3 should have reached ~40k. Not bad, but not enough for a game like Gundam Musou. The problem is that in the short term, the console has not games as big as Gundam anymore.
A situation that remind me the PSP: not enough big games ((1) outside MHP2. 2) this doesn't mean that the games are bad on PSP).

 

[Jonnyram]

So, PS3 should have reached ~40k. Not bad.

Excuse me... let's backtrack a little here.

The PS3 is now selling slower than the GC at the respective point in its lifetime... and that's "not bad"!? Please educate me as to what it would take to have bad sales.

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

So, PS3 should have reached ~40k. Not bad, .

only 40k, with Gundam-launch + Gundam-Bundle ? i think is really bad..

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Excuse me... let's backtrack a little here.

The PS3 is now selling slower than the GC at the respective point in its lifetime... and that's "not bad"!? Please educate me as to what it would take to have bad sales.

If you have read the rest, I have add "but not enough !". I have wrote this for something ! And I said "not bad", because I'm not the person who said "Sony is doomed" and similia. It was only a way to make things appear less dramatic for the PS3.

 

[Ryu1999]

Excuse me... let's backtrack a little here.

The PS3 is now selling slower than the GC at the respective point in its lifetime... and that's "not bad"!? Please educate me as to what it would take to have bad sales.

The 360 in Japan

But seriously, it costs more than 2 times as much as a Gamecube and it looks like the Japanese have a budget

 

[Souldriver]

All conventional rules seem to not apply on the PS3 anymore, so I ask: is 180k and 40k considered "good" now?

 

[PantherLotus]

Where is this 40k number coming from? The PS3 didn't sell that.

 

[The Innocent X]

Where is this 40k number coming from? The PS3 didn't sell that.

Dodgy german article above says that sales doubled from previous week, eg. 19K odd times 2, equals ~40K

 

[PantherLotus]

Doubling?! OMG

They could quadruple their sales and barely match their competition. That sucks.

 

[Parl]

The PS3 sales are bad. Not good, not okay, not modest, not "not bad", puurrrfect, and not faaaantastic, so there's no reason to smile.

Yes, it's because of price and lack of games, but there's ALWAYS a reason for bad sales. Just people have this weird thing going off where they say some reasons are good reasons and some are bad reasons, and thus, they don't see beyond this and realise that, in comparison to Wii and PS2, PlayStation 3 is doing bad.

 

[Jonnyram]

Yes, it's because of ... lack of games

???

 

[PantherLotus]

The PS3 sales are bad. Not good, not okay, not modest, not "not bad", puurrrfect, and not faaaantastic, so there's no reason to smile.

Yes, it's because of price and lack of games, but there's ALWAYS a reason for bad sales. Just people have this weird thing going off where they say some reasons are good reasons and some are bad reasons, and thus, they don't see beyond this and realise that, in comparison to Wii and PS2, PlayStation 3 is doing bad.

Why bother comparing it to anything? The sales are bad compared to everything. Other than the 360.

 

[Haunted]

Excuse me... let's backtrack a little here.

The PS3 is now selling slower than the GC at the respective point in its lifetime... and that's "not bad"!? Please educate me as to what it would take to have bad sales.

****ing wow. If anyone had predicted that in the months before the PS3 launch = instant ban and 25 people jumping on that poster with ridicule. Unbelievable.

 

[DefectiveReject]

Wii seems to be taken up by the PS2 crowd!
Look at the tracking for Wii and Ps2 they're almost identical!

 

[PantherLotus]

****ing wow. If anyone had predicted that in the months before the PS3 launch = instant ban and 25 people jumping on that poster with ridicule. Unbelievable.

That's why one doesn't make shocking predictions.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

180,000 copies of Gundam Musou and 40,000 PS3s sold isn't that bad. Not that great either but shows that there are people out there using their PS3s that were sold in the past couple of months.

With Virtua Fighter 5 tanking hard (65,000 units), Sony is going to need to do something to fill in the gaps between major releases. PS3 games don't seem to have much in terms of legs.

 

[Parl]

???

If PS3 had more (popular) games out now, it would've sold more.

 

[ITA84]

???

I'm guessing it's the number of games available for each platform.

Edit: beaten.

 

[PantherLotus]

180,000 copies of Gundam Musou and 40,000 PS3s sold isn't that bad. Not that great either but shows that there are people out there using their PS3s that were sold in the past couple of months.

With Virtua Fighter 5 tanking hard (65,000 units), Sony is going to need to do something to fill in the gaps between major releases. PS3 games don't seem to have much in terms of legs.

No, it's bad. Bad. By any standard. It's clearly not a hot product, and it's not going to magically change, either. They will need sustained, huge, unbelievable, and mind-jarring releases week after week for several months to overcome their initial stumble. And at that price, it's impossible.

And I don't believe it really doubled. You guys are taking this as actual MC numbers, which they aren't.

 

[MasterMFauli]

If PS3 had more (popular) games out now, it would've sold more.

If i had 2 Dollars, i could buy a 2 Dollar-bread....WTH ?!? :-/

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

No, it's bad. Bad. By any standard. It's clearly not a hot product, and it's not going to magically change, either. They will need sustained, huge, unbelievable, and mind-jarring releases week after week for several months to overcome their initial stumble. And at that price, it's impossible.

And I don't believe it really doubled. You guys are taking this as actual MC numbers, which they aren't.

Could be worse. It could have sold at the rate of Virtua Fighter 5.

I agree with your idea though. The PS3's situation is moving away from bad to disastrous. Sony needs a miracle to regain footing. Maybe Motorstorm in the US would be that miracle. Maybe the Europeans will love the PS3.

I won't be holding my breath though. It appears that the 360 is cementing itself as the premium priced console and Wii as the budget priced console.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Excuse me... let's backtrack a little here.

The PS3 is now selling slower than the GC at the respective point in its lifetime... and that's "not bad"!? Please educate me as to what it would take to have bad sales.

Spinning the facts with art skills isn't fair. The PS3 is the most successful $600 console ever, and easily the most successful device that features a Blu Ray player, which is the next big thing anyway.

 

[TTP]

where is the next MC report coming out?

 

[Wiitard]

There is no other way of looking at it - PS3 has lost Japan. If from now on they don't do any major scew-up, keep their expected releases and so on, they will keep up with the GC in Japan - remember the GC did have major titles.

But the Euro launch will be interesting. I would expect a lot of developers are looking at it before jumping ship. I predict that if PS3 sells >800,000 at launch we'll see some announcements from the 3rd parties withing the next couple of weeks.

If it sells below 400,000, I would also expect news from 3rd parties within the next two weeks - canceled ports, EA rumbling about how Sony need to change some things if they want to keep support and etc.

Maybe the news from the Euro will ever resonate in announcements for other consoles.

What do you guys think?

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Spinning the facts with art skills isn't fair. The PS3 is the most successful $600 console ever, and easily the most successful device that features a Blu Ray player, which is the next big thing anyway.

Didn't this schtick wear thin a few months back?

There is no other way of looking at it - PS3 has lost Japan. If from now on they don't do any major scew-up, keep their expected releases and so on, they will keep up with the GC in Japan - remember the GC did have major titles.

But the Euro launch will be interesting. I would expect a lot of developers are looking at it before jumping ship. I predict that if PS3 sells >800,000 at launch we'll see some announcements from the 3rd parties withing the next couple of weeks.

If it sells below 400,000, I would also expect news from 3rd parties within the next two weeks - canceled ports, EA rumbling about how Sony need to change some things if they want to keep support and etc.

Maybe the news from the Euro will ever resonate in announcements for other consoles.

What do you guys think?

Assuming it does flop at launch, I still doubt you'll see the kind of exodus - or rumblings about one - that you suggest. Projects under wraps might be quietly scaled back, exclusives might be considered for porting to 360 etc. but most of this will happen quietly and out of sight. If the situation gets much worse, then perhaps you'll see the kind of public "we're jumping ship" declarations you imagine, but I think any initial move away from the system by the publishing community off the back of a poor launch will be more in terms of what is not announced, rather than what is cancelled.

 

[MasterMFauli]

The PS3 is the most successful $600 console ever.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Wiitard]

The PS3 is the most successful $600 console ever.

Even better, it's the most successful over 10lbs console ever - a heavyweight champion. The only title which really matters. Just like Rocky!

 

[P90]

Well you have Common Knowledge Training, English Training, Kanji Test x2 and the Nintendo Cook Book. And man did these titles run amok in the Top 50.
This whole non-games agenda is gettind old and tiresome. All these titles are not games, that is right, I would refer to them simply as applications. When Iwata was talking about non-games he was referring to AC, which doesn't follow a conservative game's formula (e.g. no "goal", no levels). In this context Sims is as much a non-game as Spore will probably be.
I know trolls should be ignored but this is getting ridiculous.

Do you live in Japan? Do "non-games" limit your gaming choices on the DS or other platforms? No one holds a gun to my head, making me play "non-games" instead of "games". Maybe in your part of the world that isn't true.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

There is no other way of looking at it - PS3 has lost Japan. If from now on they don't do any major scew-up, keep their expected releases and so on, they will keep up with the GC in Japan - remember the GC did have major titles.

But the Euro launch will be interesting. I would expect a lot of developers are looking at it before jumping ship. I predict that if PS3 sells >800,000 at launch we'll see some announcements from the 3rd parties withing the next couple of weeks.

If it sells below 400,000, I would also expect news from 3rd parties within the next two weeks - canceled ports, EA rumbling about how Sony need to change some things if they want to keep support and etc.

Maybe the news from the Euro will ever resonate in announcements for other consoles.

What do you guys think?

I agree that Japan is all but a lost cause for Sony now. The Wii has gained some serious momentum, and the PS3 release schedule is still too staggered to combat it. By the time Sony gets anything truly worthwhile, the battle will already have ended.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

There is no other way of looking at it - PS3 has lost Japan. If from now on they don't do any major scew-up, keep their expected releases and so on, they will keep up with the GC in Japan - remember the GC did have major titles.

But the Euro launch will be interesting. I would expect a lot of developers are looking at it before jumping ship. I predict that if PS3 sells >800,000 at launch we'll see some announcements from the 3rd parties withing the next couple of weeks.

If it sells below 400,000, I would also expect news from 3rd parties within the next two weeks - canceled ports, EA rumbling about how Sony need to change some things if they want to keep support and etc.

Maybe the news from the Euro will ever resonate in announcements for other consoles.

What do you guys think?

Peter Moore is probably one of the happiest guys in the world.

There is no doubt in my mind that we will see more and more 360 support if third parties are annoyed at the piss poor performance of the PS3. All Microsoft has to do is offer some cash incentives to seal the deal.

As for Sony, their PR sounds confident, but I know that there are some executives that are not sleeping at night, wondering how they can turn the PS3 around.

 

[Wiitard]

I agree that Japan is all but a lost cause for Sony now. The Wii has gained some serious momentum, and the PS3 release schedule is still too staggered to combat it. By the time Sony gets anything truly worthwhile, the battle will already have ended.

I think the smart thing for them to do now is to just shift development resourses away from Japan at this point. Not sure this will change anything at time to matter but throwing good money after bad in Japan does not make sense.

 

[P90]

But seriously, it costs more than 2 times as much as a Gamecube and it looks like the Japanese have a budget

And who's fault is it that the PS3 costs so much that people aren't buying it like its earlier iteration? Nintendo's? MS's? Japan? The US? Iraq? Todd Bertuzzi?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Do you live in Japan? Do "non-games" limit your gaming choices on the DS or other platforms? No one holds a gun to my head, making me play "non-games" instead of "games". Maybe in your part of the world that isn't true.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[P90]

What the hell are you talking about?

Read the quote I responded to. If you can't figure it out then you might benefit from:

http://www.rif.org/

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: People gripe about "nongames" dominating the top sales spot in a country they probably don't live in as if that will force them to have to play "nongames". No one has to play "games" or "nongames".

 

[Wiitard]

Peter Moore is probably one of the happiest guys in the world.

There is no doubt in my mind that we will see more and more 360 support if third parties are annoyed at the piss poor performance of the PS3. All Microsoft has to do is offer some cash incentives to seal the deal.

As for Sony, their PR sounds confident, but I know that there are some executives that are not sleeping at night, wondering how they can turn the PS3 around.

I agree. The question is - will it be slow meldown as up to this point or will it accelerate. The way I see it, Euro launch is the very last chance for Sony in a lot of 3rd parties eyes.

Who benefits most from that: MS or Nintendo is something pretty hard to tell. At the very short term, probably MS.

 

[f@luS]

There is no other way of looking at it - PS3 has lost Japan. If from now on they don't do any major scew-up, keep their expected releases and so on, they will keep up with the GC in Japan - remember the GC did have major titles.

But the Euro launch will be interesting. I would expect a lot of developers are looking at it before jumping ship. I predict that if PS3 sells >800,000 at launch we'll see some announcements from the 3rd parties withing the next couple of weeks.

If it sells below 400,000, I would also expect news from 3rd parties within the next two weeks - canceled ports, EA rumbling about how Sony need to change some things if they want to keep support and etc.

Maybe the news from the Euro will ever resonate in announcements for other consoles.

What do you guys think?

I lol'ed.
The wii will stay strong.
But there is no way every japanese will handle current gen system from a gfx standpoint for the next 6/7 years. THEY will have to go with a next g en system , and they will of course pick the PS3 instead of xbox 360.
Sooner or later the ps3 will sell really well in japan , in europe and pretty good in usa (= xbox i think)

 

[Frankfurter]

And who's fault is it that the PS3 costs so much that people aren't buying it like its earlier iteration? Nintendo's? MS's? Japan? The US? Iraq? Todd Bertuzzi?

I'd pick Iraq.

 

[Wiitard]

I lol'ed.
....
But there is no way every japanese will handle current gen system from a gfx standpoint for the next 6/7 years. THEY will have to go with a next g en system , and they will of course pick the PS3 instead of xbox 360.
Sooner or later the ps3 will sell really well in japan , in europe and pretty good in usa (= xbox i think)

PS2 is a year 2000 tech and is still selling. Why the hell would the japanese pick in 6-7 year time a yesterday news system? There will be new consoles around, new portables. In 6-7 years time PS3 will be dead. Probably Wii as well (or have some kind of GBA status).

 

[PantherLotus]

I lol'ed.
The wii will stay strong.
But there is no way every japanese will handle current gen system from a gfx standpoint for the next 6/7 years. THEY will have to go with a next g en system , and they will of course pick the PS3 instead of xbox 360.
Sooner or later the ps3 will sell really well in japan , in europe and pretty good in usa (= xbox i think)

These are the assumptions that will cost many greater men than yourself their jobs.

 

[Dave Long]

I lol'ed.
The wii will stay strong.
But there is no way every japanese will handle current gen system from a gfx standpoint for the next 6/7 years. THEY will have to go with a next g en system , and they will of course pick the PS3 instead of xbox 360.
Sooner or later the ps3 will sell really well in japan , in europe and pretty good in usa (= xbox i think)

I think you have far too much faith in graphics and in six to seven years, Sony will have already launched a new system IMO. They'll have to in order to regain their PS2 position, if that's even possible by then.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Read the quote I responded to. If you can't figure it out then you might benefit from:

http://www.rif.org/

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: People gripe about "nongames" dominating the top sales spot in a country they probably don't live in as if that will force them to have to play "nongames". No one has to play "games" or "nongames".

That's not what Phife was arguing.

 

[Phife Dawg]

There is no other way of looking at it - PS3 has lost Japan. If from now on they don't do any major scew-up, keep their expected releases and so on, they will keep up with the GC in Japan - remember the GC did have major titles.

But the Euro launch will be interesting. I would expect a lot of developers are looking at it before jumping ship. I predict that if PS3 sells >800,000 at launch we'll see some announcements from the 3rd parties withing the next couple of weeks.

If it sells below 400,000, I would also expect news from 3rd parties within the next two weeks - canceled ports, EA rumbling about how Sony need to change some things if they want to keep support and etc.

Maybe the news from the Euro will ever resonate in announcements for other consoles.

What do you guys think?

Developers won't jump ship so easily, with the current development cycles it isn't easy either. I don't have the slightest doubt that PS3 will easily surpass X360, which is pretty much shunned by the majority of people (at least here in Germany) because PC gaming is still going strong and results in a lack of attractive software (most see the light on PC as well, GoW not getting released here didn't help either).
But this is the Media Create Sales thread, so this discussion is better taking place elsewhere.

 

[PantherLotus]

I think people like that are forgetting that bad sales are exponential and compounding. Bad sales beget less games beget even worse sales.


You think it's bad now? They have exactly ONE YEAR to change everything.

 

[f@luS]

PS2 is a year 2000 tech and is still selling. Why the hell would the japanese pick in 6-7 year time a yesterday news system? There will be new consoles around, new portables. In 6-7 years time PS3 will be dead. Probably Wii as well (or have some kind of GBA status).

Yeah ,its current gen.
Wii gfx will be soon 10 years old graphic (2/3 years) .
Im not saying they will stop buying wii , im just saying that in 2/3 years next gen games will be so mind blowing they wont be able to stop themselves from buying , especially at "my guess" a 200/300$ ps3 (in 2/3 years) max.