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Media Create Sales: Week 4, 2016 (Jan 25 - Jan 31)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Ha, I guess that's kind of why I asked.
If I want to start up a lengthy discussion about mobile I'll usually just go talk directly to someone like charlequin or duckroll.
I post observations in here under the assumption there are people who actually find this helpful or interesting. If people just want to talk about how based Splatoon's legs are or whether a 30K selling licensed games should be on 3DS or Vita, and feel like I'm being a jerk by flooding their desired conversation with mobile information, I'm just wasting both my and their time.
Mind, certainly not all discussions in here are like that, but I thought people would feel there was some added content this way. If that's not the case, I had no intention to intrude.
No idea.
But will happen again, and probabily with a lot o f weeks... expecially if NX eat 3DS sales, Vita could outsell 3DS a lot of weeks in 2017.
Personally speaking I'm not always interested in the mobile stuff but sometimes it's interesting and I'm never offended or offput by it being posted in this thread.
I'd even say it makes more sense to be in these threads because the people who have any interest in that stuff are probably here already and there would be a massive amount of cross pollination anyway.
The only real issue to me is that mobile data is even more obfuscated than the retail data!
I'd even say it makes more sense to be in these threads because the people who have any interest in that stuff are probably here already and there would be a massive amount of cross pollination anyway.
The only real issue to me is that mobile data is even more obfuscated than the retail data!
I feel the mobile market and the information we get about the performance of Japanese titles is big enough to warrant a own thread. I am interested in those posts and discussions but they end up getting overshadowed in MC threads most of time.
A monthly thread or so about the Japanese mobile market would be something i would subscribe to, it would also be nice to monitor how games that get global versions perform outside of Japan. A dedicated thread would make it easier to compare the performance of mobile games and publishers between each other over longer period. 30 Mio PaD downloads in the same thread that might celebrate Mario Tennis WiiU selling more than 50k a week seems...a bit off imo.
Edit:
Especially with Nintendo moving into that space soon i think we will reach a point where we can have dedicated thread to talk about about the performance of japanese mobile games in Japan and Global.
Obviously I'm not Nirolak but I don't think it's off-topic really. The success of mobile games directly influences the success of retail software and obviously affects publisher's strategies.
In fact with the recent stuff about the rising cost of producing mobile software it might even explain why some publishers are seemingly more willing to produce low budget retail software than a few years ago.
Moor-Angol
Banned
I don't care about mobile games in the same way I don't care about digital sales, but if something is not interesting for me I just pass over, I really don't see the point about this discussion.
Using the same topic keeps the users in the same place, if someone needs data a specific topic can be created in the same way it has been created for digital sales (thanks to hiska and mpl90) or retro sales (thanks to BBK, Celine and others, sorry if I don't remember you all).
And as it has been pointed out, it might happen that some mobile games arrive on console, or some browser game, or F2P, so we have to realize that nowadays we can't exclusively talk about some specific way of playing games, and as I said before, if something is not interesting just ignore it and keep discussing about what you are interested for.
Using the same topic keeps the users in the same place, if someone needs data a specific topic can be created in the same way it has been created for digital sales (thanks to hiska and mpl90) or retro sales (thanks to BBK, Celine and others, sorry if I don't remember you all).
And as it has been pointed out, it might happen that some mobile games arrive on console, or some browser game, or F2P, so we have to realize that nowadays we can't exclusively talk about some specific way of playing games, and as I said before, if something is not interesting just ignore it and keep discussing about what you are interested for.
The mobile content is worthwhile. It gives us a view on the consumption of the Japanese audience and why certain publishers take the actions they do. It's not as if repeated gloating at the sales of their favourite franchise/companies performance or petty rivalry over games that would be deemed inconsequential normally of not for the warring aspect are particularly meaningful anyway. So interupting those conversations don't really matter and if the fanboys from whatever direction don't like it, does it matter what they think or is it worth caring about them?
That type of content is useful - within the MC threads per se we've seen over the past decade the general movements of mainstream gaming from physically console to handheld then to digital mobile and digital console/handheld (slowly). The latter has started to gain ground in some conversations here (sales don't include digital, so potential for more?)
If there's a mobile thread, then it might be more useful to have a regular Japan/global thread as it's worth following - traditional and new videogame publishers are competing in this front worldwide and for many, have brought their older IP with fresh coats of paint (SE for instance with FF/DQ/Hitman/Lara Croft). We're already seeing the rise and fall of these old and new competitors in the market and it's interesting to watch whether they'll continue to try with new things on mobile or shift back towards handheld/PC (P&D for the former, various mobile upports for the latter on Steam)
I dont tend to post much in these threads but I always follow them and I do find fascinating the mobile market info that Nirolak and other posters bring to these threads from time to time and would get sad if they stop coming considering how the JP market is switching towards mobile or how some IP and publishers I follow (like Lvl5) do on mobile compared to traditional plataforms.
Hopefully they keep bringing them =/
Hopefully they keep bringing them =/
Well personally, I consider Media Create threads a general look at the Japanese industry, despite what the thread title says. We get Media Create numbers, Famitsu numbers, pre-order information, retailer anecdotes about sell-throughs, and more. So I appreciate the mobile information because it's relevant to the Japanese industry. And it's more relevant to the current state of the industry than say, more pointless speculation about the NX.
I asked earlier, but what about Nintendo's mobile games? Will they be banned here if mobile is a no go? Will we not be allowed to discuss any positive effects they might have on Nintendo hardware/software? And if that's allowed, why wouldn't we be allowed to talk about the elephant in the room, and the reason we see these consoles fighting for scraps?
A more dedicated JP mobile thread could be worthwhile to look up stuff that aren't normally looked up here. Games that are high in the rankings, but don't dominate and aren't part of franchises we care about, but could still fuel potential discussion. And we could still bring in say, how the latest Final Fantasy app performed here the next time we want to lament how Final Fantasy is dead. A test run may not be a bad idea to see if there's any actual interest.
Pennywise83
Banned
I just don't understand the attitude of exaggerating an argument in order to make the debate itself looking pointless.
Of course what you and other users are posting is interesting (I very often discussed about mobile trends in response of some of your posts); and is related to Japanese video game market sales trends. Therefore, of course you don't have to feel like you're being a jerk (hyperbole #1) - because you're often bringing valuable information. The point is not about you being a jerk in flooding "desired" conversations with mobile information - the point is: should these information belong to this thread, and why so? If the answer is yes - how should we adapt these threads to accomodate mobile information?
This thread is about weekly Japanese sales posted by Media Create, Famitsu and Dengeki - therefore pertaining dedicated gaming devices; the thread evolved over time to incorporate digital sales about games released on those dedicated platforms. It is also a weekly thread - this corroborate its nature even more: people come here to read and discuss about weekly data about the dedicated video game market. The fact that people are discussing about Splatoon legs and 30k anime tie-ins (hyperole #2) is in line with the thread topic, like it or not. If you think that discussing mobile trends is more relevant than discussing Splatoon legs on a weekly basis is perfectly fine - but this doesn't have nothing to do with the inclusion of news and data which are not directly related to the thread. I can also revert your exaggeration by implying that many news and information you and other users (me included) are posting about mobile trends are irrelevant as well; e.g., the monthly grossing chart of mobile game X (in a weekly sales thread?) without any actual number and reference point; or the fact that event Y caused a surge in download for game Z. Also, it seems that fanboys and people talking about silly things are exclusive to the dedicated space - is this true? I mean, do you think that a more developed discussion about mobile trends won't bring people defending the failure of a project, or trying to adapt information to his or her own view of the market?
Mobile news and data are adding contents to the discussion - because more or less we are interested in the Japanese video game market, and mobile is surely one of its most relevant components. That said, sometimes those posts feel a bit out-of-place in here because:
- there's not much regularity in PR and releases as in the dedicated market, where every Thursday games are being released and people can follow sales trajectory from pre-orders to first-day sales to actual numbers.
- many posts are just following grossing and download rankings without a specific ratio of why they should be brought up today and not in a week or the past month - posts get lost in the stream of discussion about first-day sales and comments to announcement relevant to the dedicated gaming space.
- it very often occurs that when posts with valuable information are dropped here, there is a mismatch between the short life of these very threads and the medium and long-time range informational contents of such posts.
For example, wouldn't it be nicer to know that there's a thread where all the discussions about Mobius Final Fantasy are, and can be looked at along with information about the game's performance, trends and events, instead of digging MC sales threads and wasting time? Mobius Final Fantasy, as virtually all other mobile games, have long commercial durations instead of games on dedicated devices that typically dropped off by the chart in a few weeks / months.
But then, of course, if we want to keep all mobile news in weekly sales threads, I don't have nothing against it - but if you feel that those news and information would be ignored otherwise, and for this very reason you don't want to have a dedicated thread - well, first you would go against the "law of the market" (here information are a non-market item, but you got the point) such that if there's no demand for a product there should not be a reason for such products to exist (after all, it takes time to write posts); and secondly you create a precedent such that a niche topic (as mobile trends appear to be) would find its way in an unrelated thread, as some other users wrote just a few posts ago; e.g., retail gaming store discounts in a Steam sales topic. It does strike me how you don't feel confindent about the topic itself while dedicating a lot of (appreciated) effort and time in writing about it - perhaps a separate thread would give more exposure to mobile trends in the Japanese market, and would be an occasion to have a more cohesive and streamlined discussion about grossing & downloads, instead of occasional information dropped in topics that last only a week.
Gotdatmoney
Member
As a lurker who doesnt post much I read all the mobile stuff. The two go hand in hand since the Japanese market is seeing a segmentation. If you put it in another thread I dont think it will get much visibility. I think the visibility is necessary since its a major part of the Indusrry. So I vote (not that this is a democracy ) that all the mobile stuff stays.
It seems counter intuituve to have "mobile is eating dedicated devices market" but then never have any data in the thread to show why.
) that all the mobile stuff stays.It seems counter intuituve to have "mobile is eating dedicated devices market" but then never have any data in the thread to show why.
Advertisement for Attack on Titan seemed to have begun about a week ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIOuzSvZ6Ds
That's a 30 second TV ad, they also uploaded a brief video of raw footage of the Vita and PS3 versions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cnznmmvBtI
I haven't seem much footage of the game, but sheesh, the Vita version looks terrible.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Just to add my two cents, I do not care whether the mobile discussion continues here or whether it gets its own thread. I do not care about mobile news so it doesn't bother me either way.
1st Course
Member
^
No PS4 footage?
No PS4 footage?
On JP PS Store it currently has 366 reviews and is No.1 in the Vita title ranking.
https://store.playstation.com/#!/ja...ー外伝-/cid=JP0082-PCSG00759_00-SEIKENFFGAIDENRM
https://store.playstation.com/#!/ja-jp/ps-vita-タイトルランキング/cid=PN.CH.JP-PN.CH.MIXED.JP-PSVITARANKING
All right, based on the feedback, I see two main options and a third one that's basically staying the course.
Option 1: Make a monthly Japanese mobile games thread.
1.) After earnings season ends (it will be over in a few more days) and we have a variety of data to work with, try to start up a new series of monthly Japanese Mobile Games sales threads that include that month's App Annie top-10 earners, the Sega revenue ranking chart (so we have a barometer for how sales performance works for top titles), and any other notable information for that month (new releases - at least as is possible given the low level of English reporting on this - and any other type of information we get like daily earnings or other such things).
2.) For overlapping games, post in both threads as normal. For example, when Snack World comes out, it would make sense to put its mobile performance in the Media Create thread and its Media Create performance in the mobile thread since we're comparing the performance of the SKUs. It would also make sense to discuss how things like Monster Strike and Puzzle & Dragons did/are doing on mobile when discussing the dedicated games. There are obviously judgment calls involved in this.
3.) My main concern is that at this point I don't think there's an obvious home for discussing the Japanese industry as a whole, which I'm not sure is especially helpful. In this scenario, neither thread is an obvious fit for discussing how the interactions between Capcom's ambitions in mobile/online and how their ambitions in dedicated gaming interact. The same is true for Square Enix, Sega, or even Nintendo, who seems interested in using mobile games to onboard potential customers to their dedicated devices through My Nintendo rewards. This is also true for IPs as a whole. A page or two ago I went over how Dragon Ball's audience in Japan seems to have had a notable shift to mobile, but how Namco is incentivized to keep making dedicated games due to how the IP performs worldwide. However, if this is preferred, I'm certainly not opposed to it.
Option 2: Overhaul Media Create into Japan Sales Weekly (we can leave the titles mostly the same an append onto them for searching purposes).
1.) The most common complaint about the mobile posts was that people felt it was hard to find old dedicated information in these threads. NPD threads lack full information in the OP/first few posts for externalities don't exist for Japan. We can shift the Media Create threads to reserving the first few posts for all the types of information we actually track. We put Media Create and Famitsu in there currently, but I don't see much reason to not have a second post that tracks all the information we seem to value less, but still follow. We could put in Dengeki, Comgnet, upcoming release schedules, the prediction league titles, the prediction league scoreboard, the monthly digital sales, notable sales announcements, links to financial results, quotes of notable executive statements about sales, or anything else of that nature that people see fit. I'm fine with just editing those posts to contain that information since generally they're just "woohoo I love Game X!" so I'd just add a "--------------------------------" and then put in that type of information below. If people want to make sure their information gets put into one of the first posts, they can just put in a red highlighted "Log To Top" and I'll try to make sure it gets done. Digging up historical information would be much easier this way since you'd only ever have to look at the first few posts to have everything notable. The OP itself stays the same as it always does in this scenario, and it's only the first couple of replies that have additional information.
2.) If we do step one, similarly we can put mobile in either the second or third post and have it contain the same types of information that would otherwise go into the mobile monthly sales thread as described above. At this point we also have everything presented in one place and it's easy to discuss the overall industry. Mind, the discussion would probably be more varied in the thread at this point since we're very openly expanding to the entire industry, including things about dedicated games we don't always discuss in an organized manner.
Option 3: Leave things as is.
1.) This is also an option, but since we seem to have a variety of strong opinions on this, I feel we should probably go with one of the above.
Edit:
If it's helpful I can convert posts 2 and 3 of this thread as an example of Option 2.
---
Option 1: Make a monthly Japanese mobile games thread.
1.) After earnings season ends (it will be over in a few more days) and we have a variety of data to work with, try to start up a new series of monthly Japanese Mobile Games sales threads that include that month's App Annie top-10 earners, the Sega revenue ranking chart (so we have a barometer for how sales performance works for top titles), and any other notable information for that month (new releases - at least as is possible given the low level of English reporting on this - and any other type of information we get like daily earnings or other such things).
2.) For overlapping games, post in both threads as normal. For example, when Snack World comes out, it would make sense to put its mobile performance in the Media Create thread and its Media Create performance in the mobile thread since we're comparing the performance of the SKUs. It would also make sense to discuss how things like Monster Strike and Puzzle & Dragons did/are doing on mobile when discussing the dedicated games. There are obviously judgment calls involved in this.
3.) My main concern is that at this point I don't think there's an obvious home for discussing the Japanese industry as a whole, which I'm not sure is especially helpful. In this scenario, neither thread is an obvious fit for discussing how the interactions between Capcom's ambitions in mobile/online and how their ambitions in dedicated gaming interact. The same is true for Square Enix, Sega, or even Nintendo, who seems interested in using mobile games to onboard potential customers to their dedicated devices through My Nintendo rewards. This is also true for IPs as a whole. A page or two ago I went over how Dragon Ball's audience in Japan seems to have had a notable shift to mobile, but how Namco is incentivized to keep making dedicated games due to how the IP performs worldwide. However, if this is preferred, I'm certainly not opposed to it.
Option 2: Overhaul Media Create into Japan Sales Weekly (we can leave the titles mostly the same an append onto them for searching purposes).
1.) The most common complaint about the mobile posts was that people felt it was hard to find old dedicated information in these threads. NPD threads lack full information in the OP/first few posts for externalities don't exist for Japan. We can shift the Media Create threads to reserving the first few posts for all the types of information we actually track. We put Media Create and Famitsu in there currently, but I don't see much reason to not have a second post that tracks all the information we seem to value less, but still follow. We could put in Dengeki, Comgnet, upcoming release schedules, the prediction league titles, the prediction league scoreboard, the monthly digital sales, notable sales announcements, links to financial results, quotes of notable executive statements about sales, or anything else of that nature that people see fit. I'm fine with just editing those posts to contain that information since generally they're just "woohoo I love Game X!" so I'd just add a "--------------------------------" and then put in that type of information below. If people want to make sure their information gets put into one of the first posts, they can just put in a red highlighted "Log To Top" and I'll try to make sure it gets done. Digging up historical information would be much easier this way since you'd only ever have to look at the first few posts to have everything notable. The OP itself stays the same as it always does in this scenario, and it's only the first couple of replies that have additional information.
2.) If we do step one, similarly we can put mobile in either the second or third post and have it contain the same types of information that would otherwise go into the mobile monthly sales thread as described above. At this point we also have everything presented in one place and it's easy to discuss the overall industry. Mind, the discussion would probably be more varied in the thread at this point since we're very openly expanding to the entire industry, including things about dedicated games we don't always discuss in an organized manner.
Option 3: Leave things as is.
1.) This is also an option, but since we seem to have a variety of strong opinions on this, I feel we should probably go with one of the above.
Edit:
If it's helpful I can convert posts 2 and 3 of this thread as an example of Option 2.
---
Admittedly I was being unfair there. My apologies. Thanks for the feedback.
Do you know if the ranking is by unit sales, views, or revenue?
It's still a browser game, what did you expect it'd get from Famitsu?
It's still a browser game? I thought it kept getting delayed because they were remaking it as an offline native vita game?
Isn't that what this is? I mean we have charts for Famitsu, Media Create, Dengeki, Digital Download charts from Famitsu, preorder charts from COMG, photos of storefronts, etc.
I believe it's unit sales since it says "売れ筋".
http://www.jp.playstation.com/psn/store/ranking/
Oh it's by number of downloads, says so at the bottom in fine print. So yeah, units. Also explains the F2P ranking lol.
Welfare
Member
I was referring to what Nirolak had in their post. If there was to be a change, Option 2 would be better. I mean, the title of the thread is Media Create Sales, but that's not all that is discussed here, like you said.
Ah missed that LOL. Thanks.
Yeah title is misleading. OP should be banned! >
Advertorial licensing agreement. Obviously.
The content in the OP wouldn't change. I'd be cannibalizing the second and third posts in the thread to post all the other information we dump in the middle of the thread so it's also near the start, and thus people wouldn't need to comb the thread to find information like this.
Imagine if instead of my post, the second post looked like the below (non-exhaustive), and then the third post had mobile information like the Sega stuff.
The core of the game is the same, they just changed the interface and added a few things here and there.
Also, offline? I was under the impression it wasn't. Is it really offline?
that seems...accurate. I'm with you.
Seems like a good idea to me. I find myself searching for YSO predictions too often. It would be helpful to have all that info compiled like that, and that monthly sales section would be nice.
I'm rather open to a discussion of what sorts of things would go in those posts (and what sorts of things shouldn't), but the concept is more along the lines of "Here's the information people keep going back for, so let's put it somewhere more accessible."
Maybe individual store rankings don't make sense, but things like YSO predictions and shipment results do. Maybe we have expected first week shipments in there. Maybe next week's new releases.
Similarly I'm open to what sort of mobile things would and wouldn't make sense for a post 3.
Maybe individual store rankings don't make sense, but things like YSO predictions and shipment results do. Maybe we have expected first week shipments in there. Maybe next week's new releases.
Similarly I'm open to what sort of mobile things would and wouldn't make sense for a post 3.
Welfare
Member
Some of this would be great. I'd like a quick stop at the very beginning for relevant info.
Also, how are months defined in Japan? Like, NPD has the 4-4-5 week counting, but is Japan different?
I'm not sure. The thread itself would still be weekly since it's driven by Media Create, even if it had some monthly data due to digital sales estimates being monthly and mobile being monthly and financial results being quarterly.
DriftingSpirit
Member
I am also for consolidating the information so we won't have to go through the thread. Maybe store rankings are, for the most part, irrelevant but I would like things like shipped numbers and YSO predictions in one place.
Pennywise83
Banned
Shipments and other official figures (e.g. MC data about monthly sales) = yes
Rakuten, Tsutaya, YSO = no (reason is that they serve the purpose of helping a discussion about sales before official data came out - they lose any meaning once the data are out).
It's a 5800yen single player retail title. Not a f2p service game with bonus dlc in a starter pack retail release.
The only one I'm a bit conflicted about is YSO since they're relatively accurate predictions for weeks that are about 1-2 weeks after the current thread, and thus would be in those threads instead of the one when the games are actually out.
This is mainly because people frequently go back and reference them however. I agree that in two weeks they inherently become irrelevant.
I don't post in the MC threads all that often but I do read regularly. I do think Japanese mobile discussion is a valid thing to post (even if I'm of the personal opinion where I don't like mobile games and don't want to hear about them
), since it gives a more holistic picture of industry trends over there. I agree with some of the posters in here that if there are mobile-related postings, they're more than a graph and a basic explanation, some actual discussion would be nice.