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[cw_sasuke]

I know there are fans trying to write off GT6 and say it's decline doesn't count, so we'll see in other territories I guess.

They are a bit delusional...obv. it will do better comparatively in the west but i read some posts thinking its will be the biggest Holiday title across all systems...come on. It will do okay in Japan, good in the US and great in Europe .

But this isnt GT3 -A Spec or the PS2 era anymore.

Might have been a mistake not calling it GT7,

I dont think it would matter...i mean either you are interested in this kind of game/IP or you are not and this is the first PS4 GT 4 years into the generation. I dont think the name would have made a difference.

 

[Vena]

Might have been a mistake not calling it GT7,

I think is more to do with the decline of the sim racer.

 

[Kyoufu]

Might have been a mistake not calling it GT7,

Doesn't matter what they call it.

 

[bombshell]

That is not a good number for GT.

Why is it a bad number to launch with same number as GT 6? PS4 was not released in Japan when GT6 launched, so it had a different situation there than in the rest of the world. How are the numbers for the rest of the series?

 

[Zedark]

Why is it a bad number to launch with same number as GT 6? PS4 was not released in Japan when GT6 launched, so it had a different situation there than in the rest of the world. How are the numbers for the rest of the series?

1 PS2 Gran Turismo 4 SCE 634,769 new

01. / 00. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 (SCE) {25/11/10} - 430.707 / NEW

01./00. [PS3] Gran Turismo 6 # <RCE> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2013.12.05} (¥6.980) - 204.784 / NEW <55,92%>

GT6 sales are very low for the series, and GTS being as low as GT6 is not a great result for the series in a vacuum at least, even if it is at least somewhat expected due to the declining popularity of sim racers.

 

[MoonFrog]

I'm a fan of GT. Probably not getting Sport myself, but I hope the franchise does well.

 

[bombshell]

1 PS2 Gran Turismo 4 SCE 634,769 new

01. / 00. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 (SCE) {25/11/10} - 430.707 / NEW

01./00. [PS3] Gran Turismo 6 # <RCE> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2013.12.05} (¥6.980) - 204.784 / NEW <55,92%>

GT6 sales are very low for the series, and GTS being as low as GT6 is not a great result for the series in a vacuum at least, even if it is at least somewhat expected due to the declining popularity of sim racers.

Thanks, Zedark. I don't see why putting a stop to a declining trajectory is a bad number.

 

[The James]

Did we get any indication of Switch shipments this week? Did Bic Camera have zero stock again?

 

[Jigorath]

I think is more to do with the decline of the sim racer.

Aside from Gran Turismo, was the sim racer ever all that popular?

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Aside from Gran Turismo, was the sim racer ever all that popular?

Doesnt forza sell about 2 million every year?

 

[sems4arsenal]

So GTSport is more or less on par with GT6 with digital rate?

Still disappointing I think. Then again, everything is switch in Japan.

 

[Laplasakos]

1 PS2 Gran Turismo 4 SCE 634,769 new

01. / 00. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 (SCE) {25/11/10} - 430.707 / NEW

01./00. [PS3] Gran Turismo 6 # <RCE> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2013.12.05} (¥6.980) - 204.784 / NEW <55,92%>

GT6 sales are very low for the series, and GTS being as low as GT6 is not a great result for the series in a vacuum at least, even if it is at least somewhat expected due to the declining popularity of sim racers.

We are not talking about the mainline series here, so i fail to see how this new take on the franchise, opening on par with GT6 is not a good result. Yamauchi was pretty clear that this isn't GT7, so people shouldn't have high expectations for this. 180-200k seems like a solid start for Sport.

 

[cw_sasuke]

We are not talking about the mainline series here, so i fail to see how this new take on the franchise, opening on par with GT6 is not a good result. Yamauchi was pretty clear that this isn't GT7, so people shouldn't have high expectations for this. 180-200k seems like a solid start for Sport.

No one cares what they call it - GT7 wont or wouldnt sell much more either. Its been 4 years and anyone remotely interested in a GT type of title will buy this game.

 

[MoonFrog]

Idk. I'm waiting for GT7 . But I guess I've only ever bought the series on and off since after A-spec.

 

[KillerMan91]

We are not talking about the mainline series here, so i fail to see how this new take on the franchise, opening on par with GT6 is not a good result. Yamauchi was pretty clear that this isn't GT7, so people shouldn't have high expectations for this. 180-200k seems like a solid start for Sport.

It's mainline game in all but name. I mean they have worked on it for 4 years and it's getting huge push from Sony especially in Europe. I don't think there will be another GT this gen.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Idk. I'm waiting for GT7 . But I guess I've only ever bought the series on and off since after A-spec.

Why though ? Thats the GT you will get this gen...thats like skipping MHW World because you are waiting for MH5.

 

[Jigorath]

Doesnt forza sell about 2 million every year?

I doubt it. Forza Horizon 3 (which isn't a sim racer) sold 2.5m. MS never announced sales for 5 or 6 as far as I'm aware. And 7 has declined pretty heavily in its debut.

But even so, the 2nd most popular franchise the genre selling 2m+ per game doesn't seem all that huge to me?

 

[Sandfox]

We are not talking about the mainline series here, so i fail to see how this new take on the franchise, opening on par with GT6 is not a good result. Yamauchi was pretty clear that this isn't GT7, so people shouldn't have high expectations for this. 180-200k seems like a solid start for Sport.

Yamauchi comments from last year:

”GT SPORT is a regular title of the GT Series. The gaming contents is so ample that you can consider it as "Gran Turismo 7”. It is titled " GT Sport” because the ”Sport Mode" of the game is important. If I have to change a statement，maybe ”Gran Turismo 7 Sport" is more correct name."

”For me, Gran Turismo Sport is Gran Turismo 7. Gran Turismo Sport is something that marks the beginning of a new generation or era. When you consider Gran Turismo 1-6 as the first era, GT Sport marks a new generation moving forward."

Idk. I'm waiting for GT7 . But I guess I've only ever bought the series on and off since after A-spec.

"GT7" isn't happening.

 

[Laplasakos]

No one cares what they call it - GT7 wont or wouldnt sell much more either. Its been 4 years and anyone remotely interested in a GT type of title will buy this game.

Where does the impression that no one cares what it's called comes from? I don't agree with this at all. I know many friends that played all the GT games and they won't buy this because it's not 7. I am talking about casual fans here. Totally anecdotal evidence i know but it's a fact. You can't possibly believe though that no one cares this isn't 7. It makes no sense.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I doubt it. Forza Horizon 3 (which isn't a sim racer) sold 2.5m. MS never announced sales for 5 or 6 as far as I'm aware. And 7 has declined pretty heavily in its debut.

But even so, the 2nd most popular franchise the genre selling 2m+ per game doesn't seem all that huge to me?

Yeah but they come out every year. I dont know how much they cost to make though. But it takes Sony so long to make a GT game and MS pumps them out easily.

 

[MoonFrog]

Yamauchi comments from last year:





"GT7" isn't happening.

Well maybe I should look more into sport then. But I wasn't a fan of the reduced feature set iirc.

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[Mory Dunz]

01. [PS4] Gran Turismo Sport < 200k (average 185k)
02. [PS4] Itadaki Street: Dragon Quest & Final Fantasy 30th Anniversary < 50k (average 40k)
03. [PS4] Kyoei Toshi < 50k (average 40k)
04. [PS4] The Evil Within 2 < 45k (average 35k)

wow, PS4's week.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Where does the impression that no one cares what it's called comes from? I don't agree with this at all. I know many friends that played all the GT games and they won't buy this because it's not 7. I am talking about casual fans here. Totally anecdotal evidence i know but it's a fact. You can't possibly believe though that no one cares this isn't 7. It makes no sense.

No one cares as it wont make a big difference... the people who buy these game in 2017 are likely more hardcore anyway - i doubt anyone would skip this game just because of the name...especially when it look like GT7 might not even be a thing this generation.

So you are talking about a audience that is irrelevant on the PS4. It would be different if this was a Prologue release we have gotten in 2014 or 2015...but not 4 years in, especially with GT7 nowhere to be seen.

If you can skip GT Sports as a fan of the IP or sim racers this late in the gen...well sounds hard to believe.

 

[Laplasakos]

Yamauchi comments from last year:





"GT7" isn't happening.

Gran Turismo Sport is not Gran Turismo 7
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-10-28-gran-turismo-sport-is-not-gran-turismo-7

Yamauchi: No plans for Gran Turismo 7 now
https://www.finder.com.au/gran-turismo-7-plan

Seems to me Sport and 7 is not the same thing.

 

[Primethius]

No one cares what they call it - GT7 wont or wouldnt sell much more either. Its been 4 years and anyone remotely interested in a GT type of title will buy this game.

Nah, I think if it was called GT7 and had an actual campaign mode rather than the barebones SP stuff Sport has, it would sell more for sure.

Not GT5 levels mind you, but Sport is a somewhat new direction for the series and that new direction is losing them sales.

 

[Jigorath]

Yeah but they come out every year. I dont know how much they cost to make though. But it takes Sony so long to make a GT game and MS pumps them out easily.

Okay. Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon are different franchises by different studios. The former is a GT-inspired sim racer, the other is an openworld arcade racer.

Both series are on a 2-year cycle, which, to be fair, is still better than the 3-4 years that Polyphony takes.

 

[MoonFrog]

Nah, I think if it was called GT7 and had an actual campaign mode rather than the barebones SP stuff Sport has, it would sell more for sure.

Not GT5 levels mind you, but Sport is a somewhat new direction for the series and that new direction is losing them sales.

Yeah this is exactly why it is off my radar. Sad to hear it isn't intended as a spin-off tbh.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Nah, I think if it was called GT7 and had an actual campaign mode rather than the barebones SP stuff Sport has, it would sell more for sure.

Not GT5 levels mind you, but Sport is a somewhat new direction for the series and that new direction is losing them sales.

Calling it GT7 wouldnt make it a diffrent game though - GT Sports is the GT title for the PS4 generation...you might not like it for whatever reasons but i dont think the name will be relevant.

You would have a point if the PS4 had already other GT titles or maybe a numbered one so people could confuse GT Sports as a spin-off. But not if its the only game in town.

 

[Cerium]

Why though ? Thats the GT you will get this gen...thats like skipping MHW World because you are waiting for MH5.

Not a great example. There will be a MH5 this gen.

 

[KillerMan91]

Nah, I think if it was called GT7 and had an actual campaign mode rather than the barebones SP stuff Sport has, it would sell more for sure.

Not GT5 levels mind you, but Sport is a somewhat new direction for the series and that new direction is losing them sales.

Based on what? Game hasn't even released yet. Reason for new direction is exactly the decline of the traditional sim racer genre. They want to get new and bigger audience with new game focusing on new hotness that is e-sports.

 

[Jigorath]

Not a great example. There will be a MH5 this gen.

Isn't that Monster Hunter: World?

The devs said it was 5 in all but name.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Not a great example. There will be a MH5 this gen.

My point wasnt that there wont be a MH5 ...but that no MH fan with a PS4/XB/PC is skipping MHW, waiting for MH5, thought this was obvious.

 

[MoonFrog]

Still hate that colon in the MHW title.

I always preferred to read things like SMW or DKC as the prior words modifying the last word. Can't read this title that way.

 

[Laplasakos]

No one cares as it wont make a big difference... the people who buy these game in 2017 are likely more hardcore anyway - i doubt anyone would skip this game just because of the name...especially when it look like GT7 might not even be a thing this generation.

So you are talking about a audience that is irrelevant on the PS4. It would be different if this was a Prologue release we have gotten in 2014 or 2015...but not 4 years in, especially with GT7 nowhere to be seen.

If you can skip GT Sports as a fan of the IP or sim racers this late in the gen...well sounds hard to believe.

Many people are already skipping the game because of the name and the absence of other mainline features. Even if it sells more than GT6 it won't have a bigger opening from GT4. Legs is another story. Casuals won't buy the game because they will believe it's not a true GT game. A number does make a difference especially in these audiences that are not so well informed about the contents of the game (even worse in Sport's case). Also, fans of sim racers already jumped out of the GT wagon and got on the Forza one for some time now. Racing fans are not gonna wait forever for GT (although i am not talking about Japan here).

 

[Primethius]

Calling it GT7 wouldnt make it a diffrent game though - GT Sports is the GT title for the PS4 generation...you might not like it for whatever reasons but i dont think the name will be relevant.

You would have a point if the PS4 had already other GT titles or maybe a numbered one so people could confuse GT Sports as a spin-off. But not if its the only game in town.

Agree to disagree I suppose. I think there's value in a name, and the content within as a result of that branding change.

Based on what? Game hasn't even released yet. Reason for new direction is exactly the decline of the traditional sim racer genre. They want to get new and bigger audience with new game focusing on new hotness that is e-sports.

Based on, what I'm assuming, will be a drastic delcine in sales from GT5 across most regions?

GT6 sales, even though it did 5 million post PS4, had that as an excuse to fall back on. GTS selling 6 levels in a generation without a GT game? I wouldn't put that solely on the genre. PD takes a bit of the blame.

 

[Kyoufu]

Still hate that colon in the MHW title.

I always preferred to read things like SMW or DKC as the prior words modifying the last word. Can't read this title that way.

Yeah, I don't like it either. There's no colon in the Freedom and Frontier titles. Consistency pls.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

There are definitely franchises that benfit from having a number in the title, i dont know if GT is one of those franchises though.

 

[MoonFrog]

My point wasnt that there wont be a MH5 ...but that no MH fan with a PS4/XB/PC is skipping MHW, waiting for MH5, thought this was obvious.

I think you are operating with a really odd idea of fan. Primethius gave you specific ways that the content of sport could be disappointing. I don't buy things in franchises I like if I don't want the content. IDK. I will give Sport another look now, but...that doesn't guarantee I buy it.

 

[Primethius]

There are definitely franchises that benfit from having a number in the title, i dont know if GT is one of those franchises though.

I'd be less inclined to believe that names don't have an effect here but this is GT. They've had Prologue versions. Those names are more clear cut indicators of a prelude to a mainline release but it's hard not to imagine, given the somewhat confusing PR, that some mainstream gamers think Sport is also just a prelude to a 7 release later.

 

[Sandfox]

Gran Turismo Sport is not Gran Turismo 7
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-10-28-gran-turismo-sport-is-not-gran-turismo-7

Yamauchi: No plans for Gran Turismo 7 now
https://www.finder.com.au/gran-turismo-7-plan

Seems to me Sport and 7 is not the same thing.

The first quote is the CEO of SCEE in 2015 up against more recent quotes from Yamauchi himself.

Also, even if we go down the Sport isn't GT7, it's supposed to to be the "next generation of GT" so treating it like a spinoff makes little sense. If sales suffer because of this direction, all it tells us is that PD screwed up.

 

[KillerMan91]

Based on, what I'm assuming, will be a drastic delcine in sales from GT5 across most regions?

GT6 sales, even though it did 5 million post PS4, had that as an excuse to fall back on. GTS selling 6 levels in a generation without a GT game? I wouldn't put that solely on the genre. PD takes a bit of the blame.

And you think that traditional GT7 would have not seen any drop from GT5? Well I hugely disagree. it has been 7 years since GT5. Gaming world has changed since then. GT Sport is exactly their answer to that changed landscape. They are trying to gain new audience with e-sport focus. GTS is also mid gen release. Even if it doesn't manage to gain that many new fans it will have longer legs than GT6 and should sell more globally.

 

[Primethius]

And you think that traditional GT7 would have not seen any drop from GT5? Well I hugely disagree. it has been 7 years since GT5. Gaming world has changed since then. GT Sport is exactly their answer to that changed landscape. They are trying to gain new audience with e-sport focus. GTS is also mid gen release. Even if it doesn't manage to gain that many new fans it will have longer legs than GT6 and should sell more globally.

I didn't say that?

But there's a way to sell more than 6 and less than 5...

 

[Laplasakos]

The first quote is the CEO of SCEE in 2015 up against more recent quotes from Yamauchi himself.

Also, even if we go down the Sport isn't GT7, it's supposed to to be the "next generation of GT" so treating it like a spinoff makes little sense. If sales suffer because of this direction, all it tells us is that PD screwed up.

The last one i posted from Yamauchi, (which implies that he considers 7 an other game not yet in development) is the most recent one i could find. Despite that the PR has been confusing on that front for quite some time now, probably due to the lukewarm response for the game each time they showed new footage and because people are treating it like a spin off game.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Many people are already skipping the game because of the name and the absence of other mainline features. Even if it sells more than GT6 it won't have a bigger opening from GT4. Legs is another story. Casuals won't buy the game because they will believe it's not a true GT game. A number does make a difference especially in these audiences that are not so well informed about the contents of the game (even worse in Sport's case). Also, fans of sim racers already jumped out of the GT wagon and got on the Forza one for some time now. Racing fans are not gonna wait forever for GT (although i am not talking about Japan here).

Agree to disagree I suppose. I think there's value in a name, and the content within as a result of that branding change.

Yeah...this wasnt part of the initial argument though. Even if there is a effect its much smaller than some of you are thinking.

At the end of the day no one can say how this would have impacted the casual audience because honestly outside of Europe i dont think GT is a IP that speaks to casuals in this day and age anyway. Dont you think Sony or PD would have gone this way if they thought it would be this easy to get GT selling as much as it did during the height of the IP ? The market has changed quite a bit since GT3 -GT5.

With GT6 people said the PS3 was the issue even though it had a massive userbase and the PS4 had sold next to nothing at that point. With GT Sports its the name and missing of some feature. This all may be right or wrong - no one can tell for sure but at the end of the day the IP is declining for multiple reasons.

Them dropping GT7 wont just fix this because of the name.

I think you are operating with a really odd idea of fan. Primethius gave you specific ways that the content of sport could be disappointing. I don't buy things in franchises I like if I don't want the content. IDK. I will give Sport another look now, but...that doesn't guarantee I buy it.

My main point was that just changing the name wouldnt make a big difference...only after that you guys added the content changes you would like for GT Sports. This wasnt the argument - so the game being different and having a different name could have impact on the sales. Of course.

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[MoonFrog]

Yeah...this wasnt part of the initial argument though. Even if there is a effect its much smaller than some of you are thinking.

At the end of the day no one can say how this would have impacted the casual audience because honestly outside of Europe i dont think GT is a IP that speaks to casuals in this day and age anyway. Dont you think Sony or PD would have gone this way if they thought it would be this easy to get GT selling as much as it did during the height of the IP ? The market has changed quite a bit since GT3 -GT5.

With GT6 people said the PS3 was the issue even though it had a massive userbase and the PS4 had sold next to nothing at that point. With GT Sports its the name and missing of some feature. This all may be right or wrong - no one can tell for sure but at the end of the day the IP is declining for multiple reasons.

Them dropping GT7 wont just fix this because of the name.


My main point was that just changing the name wouldnt make a big difference...only after that you guys added the content changes you would like for GT Sports. This wasnt the argument - so the game being different and having a different name could have impact on the sales. Of course.

I mean you did also act like I was an impossibility, completely tangent to this argument you're having That's what I'm responding to.

 

[KillerMan91]

I didn't say that?

But there's a way to sell more than 6 and less than 5...

And I really don't see why GT Sport wouldn't sell between 5 and 6 (globally)? I mean if it somehow does they obviously screwed up with new direction and will probably change it back to more traditional GT but as of now Sports is just as mainline game as previous entries with just new direction.

 

[cw_sasuke]

I mean you did also act like I was an impossibility, completely tangent to this argument you're having That's what I'm responding to.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=252095393&postcount=900

This statement started off the discussion. All i said was that a name change wouldnt have a big impact on its sales...the game is what it is.

 

[Laplasakos]

At the end of the day no one can say how this would have impacted the casual audience because honestly outside of Europe i dont think GT is a IP that speaks to casuals in this day and age anyway. Dont you think Sony or PD would have gone this way if they thought it would be this easy to get GT selling as much as it did during the height of the IP ? The market has changed quite a bit since GT3 -GT5.

With GT6 people said the PS3 was the issue even though it had a massive userbase and the PS4 had sold next to nothing at that point. With GT Sports its the name and missing of some feature. This all may be right or wrong - no one can tell for sure but at the end of the day the IP is declining for multiple reasons.

This would be the case if there was a big decline between GT4 and GT5. But instead of a decline we had this

GT4 - 11.760.000
GT5 - 11.950.000

It's no coincidence that the decline exists only with GT6 and the game launching so late on PS3 is the main and probably only reason for that. PS4 may have sold next to nothing at that point but this was almost case with GT3 too. Game launched 8 months after PS2 launched in US/EU and it was selling along with the console. GT6 should at least be a cross gen game and the decision of keeping it a PS3 only game at that point made no sense at all.