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[Lord_Byron28]

Which is odd when you considering how highly regarded Sony's first parties are here on GAF.

They're highly regarded but they never had huge selling power which was always the huge problem. Outside of Gran Turismo, they had to rely on 3rd parties to succeed and even after 2 mega generations and 1 underperforming generation, Sony was still unable to get their foot in the ground.

It'd be as if Nintendo launched for their next system with Metroid Prime, Pikmin and Paper Mario and then expected 3rd parties to fill everything else. While all 3 of those series are highly regarded on GAF none of them have massive selling power.

I'm pretty convinced Sony was tricked by Nintendo...that, and perhaps investors started to ask about a new handheld

Sony had Vita in development for years way before 3DS was even anounced.

 

[Father_Brain]

I feel so so sorry for vita and Sony. Like many, I didn't buy a vita because there is not a single system seller for me. I bought most of Sony's consoles at launch, including the psp, and it is just sad to see the company collapse to the state it's in right now. I'm afraid that history is going to repeat itself and what is happening to vita is exactly what's to come on the ps4.

PS4 will at least get multiplatform titles, which will put it in a substantially better position than Vita. Depending on how Japanese third-party Wii U support shapes up, it may even get some major de facto exclusives in the JP market.

 

[metalslimer]

Sony honestly might have a better chance of rejuvenating the PSP than the Vita at this point. Maybe release a new PSP model with a touchscreen. There's no reason something like that couldn't continue to see some success in the homeland.

At the very least, it would probably get a lot of 3DS ports and I'm sure PSP's massive userbase would appreciate that.

This is what they should have done in the first place. It's wayyy too late now. Vita should have been a dual analog 3DS equivalent with a touchscreen. Maybe with double the resolution of the PSP. Cheap to develop for, cheap to make, would have probably made a multiplat portable situation in Japan even if it wouldn't have been viable in the west. Instead they went for it all, and are failing miserably.

 

[pixelbox]

In Sony's defense, all hardware sales dropped and has continued to forthe last month. Ps3 released heavy hitters and a console revision and it has done nothing. Thw Wii doesn't have releases anymore so you'd expect its sales and the 360 had a bump in sale with th RE 6 release. Why is that? Price in Japan holds weight as well as releases and hardware modifications. These Vita sales tell the story of the price being too high and no compelling software. If the old ass, non-japanese 360 gets a bump 7 years later due to being ~$180 and a RE release, there's hope for the vita.

 

[zroid]

Meh, my least favorite part of the Vita is the touchscreen. Talk about fingerprint magnet. I was happy when they finally let you use normal controls to access the menus. Put a 2nd stick on the PSP. Done. Best handheld.

That's fine, I was merely considering it from the perspective of being able to easily get ports of 3DS games.

 

[Fabrik]

8,000,000 3DS.
Good to see the market has chosen his favorite horse.
You know what to do now 3rd party developers.

 

[hatchx]

8,000,000 3DS.
Good to see the market has chosen his favorite horse.
You know what to do now 3rd party developers.

Localize! Localize!

Bravely Default! DQ7! MH4! Project X Zone!

Localize!

 

[VICI0US]

This is where being completely reliant on third-party support gets you. They apparently just assumed that PSP's JP support would carry over to Vita, and had no plan B if it didn't.

Sony is being forced to learn the same lesson Nintendo learned back in the 90's with the N64. This isn't the field of dreams. "If you build it, they will come" doesn't apply.

And unfortunately for sony they really cant carry a system on their own like nintendo can as their own IPs have nowhere near the selling power of nintendo franchises. uncharted and LBP are already on the vita, to little avail. The only sony franchise that could potentially have a bigger impact is GT, and I honestly don't even see that doing well.

they've gotten lucky with past systems (monster hunter on psp, industry shift towards all major games going multiplatform keeping the ps3 alive until it found its footing) but their luck seems to have run out with the vita.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Sony is being forced to learn the same lesson Nintendo learned back in the 90's with the N64. This isn't the field of dreams. "If you build it, they will come" doesn't apply.

And unfortunately for sony they really cant carry a system on their own like nintendo can as their own IPs have nowhere near the selling power of nintendo franchises. uncharted and LBP are already on the vita, to little avail. The only sony franchise that could potentially have a bigger impact is GT, and I honestly don't even see that doing well.

they've gotten lucky with past systems (monster hunter on psp, industry shift towards all major games going multiplatform keeping the ps3 alive until it found its footing) but their luck seems to have run out with the vita.

They should've learned this lesson with the PSP and PS3. Those two systems should've been a wake up call.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

I think the sales of the new colors of the vita will be very telling next week.

 

[demidar]

Sony is being forced to learn the same lesson Nintendo learned back in the 90's with the N64. This isn't the field of dreams. "If you build it, they will come" doesn't apply.

And unfortunately for sony they really cant carry a system on their own like nintendo can as their own IPs have nowhere near the selling power of nintendo franchises. uncharted and LBP are already on the vita, to little avail. The only sony franchise that could potentially have a bigger impact is GT, and I honestly don't even see that doing well.

they've gotten lucky with past systems (monster hunter on psp, industry shift towards all major games going multiplatform keeping the ps3 alive until it found its footing) but their luck seems to have run out with the vita.

Sony struck gold with the PS2, but they don't understand how or why. That's why they came into this gen full of hubris and why they can't replicate their success with the PS3 and the Vita.

 

[Baconsammy]

Sony is being forced to learn the same lesson Nintendo learned back in the 90's with the N64. This isn't the field of dreams. "If you build it, they will come" doesn't apply.

The fact that the failure of numerous proprietary disc-based music players and the PS3 didn't teach them this makes me think that the devastating Vita failure wont teach them anything either.

 

[Celine]

Sony is being forced to learn the same lesson Nintendo learned back in the 90's with the N64. This isn't the field of dreams. "If you build it, they will come" doesn't apply.

Nintendo never really relied on third-parties.
Heck, Famicom didn't even know what a third-party game was initially.

The lesson Nintendo learnt with the N64 was that they weren't strong enough to make a system successful against all the other publishers combined effort.

 

[The Horror the horror]

Sony honestly might have a better chance of rejuvenating the PSP than the Vita at this point. Maybe release a new PSP model with a touchscreen. There's no reason something like that couldn't continue to see some success in the homeland.

At the very least, it would probably get a lot of 3DS ports and I'm sure PSP's massive userbase would appreciate that.

You mean develop an "official" PSP2 and announce that the Vita was more of an aberration, or dare I ask -- a third pillar?

 

[Oersted]

I see a lot of "The Vita deserves success" or "Vita deserves third party attention" comments every week.


...why? Isn't that attitude exactly why it's not doing very well? It doesn't deserve jack shit, Sony needs to push it with consumers and developers, not just let it sit there deserving support. It can "deserve" success all it wants until it dies, which at this rate is not a far-off, inconceivable result.

No consumer electronics product in history has deserved success. Companies have made their product successful by being smart.

It seems like such a "I like this thing, but Sony doesn't, so I will blame them and not the product" mentality.

ShockingAlberto
is too reasonable
for this forum.

And yes, you are absolutly right. Wondering what IPad 4 deserves. Graphical-wise better, better Ios, more games, more and better apps...

 

[Count Dookkake]

I think the sales of the new colors of the vita will be very telling next week.

How much more telling is needed?

 

[Opus Angelorum]

How much more telling is needed?

Wait for...

 

[muu]

PS4 will at least get multiplatform titles, which will put it in a substantially better position than Vita. Depending on how Japanese third-party Wii U support shapes up, it may even get some major de facto exclusives in the JP market.

This is a dangerous assumption to make. At the start sure, multiplayer may be available but if sales lag to a point it may be justified to boil down multiplat options for all but the biggest franchises to other console systems. Development costs are going to rise, and ports for multiplat purpose certainly ain't free.

 

[demidar]

ShockingAlberto
is too reasonable
for this forum.

And yes, you are absolutly right. Wondering what IPad 4 deserves. Graphical-wise better, better Ios, more games, more and better apps...

Good first parties are vital for success. Putting out a new system requires games to draw in people, but third parties won't put games on the system unless there is already an established fanbase. To break that deadlock, the first parties need to put their best games onto the system to attract a fanbase, then the third party support will come.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Until proven otherwise, I assume Japanese developers are going to base most of their development on PS4/XBox 3 simply because they want American sales.

 

[Culex]

Hardware YTD:

PSP: 694,154

Vita: 589,727

There is ZERO excuse for this.

To put this in perspective.....here's the past eight weeks:

PSP: 127,396

Vita: 59,315

Sony should be asking itself why it's former console is so thoroughly outselling it's NEW, SHINY handheld

 

[iammeiam]

How big of an impact are new colors expected to have, in this case? I know successful systems usually get a notable bump, but I'm at a complete loss for what impact new Vita colors could or should have. Tripling sales at this point would only get them to 12k units, which can't be what Sony's hoping for.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

They're highly regarded but they never had huge selling power which was always the huge problem. Outside of Gran Turismo, they had to rely on 3rd parties to succeed and even after 2 mega generations and 1 underperforming generation, Sony was still unable to get their foot in the ground.

Well, almost all Sony's first parties are geared towards the West and Gran Turismo has been on a steep decline in Japan for years now.

 

[demidar]

Until proven otherwise, I assume Japanese developers are going to base most of their development on PS4/XBox 3 simply because they want American sales.

Then they are going to be taught a very harsh lesson. They have enough trouble with this gen's tech.

 

[Oersted]

Good first parties are vital for success. Putting out a new system requires games to draw in people, but third parties won't put games on the system unless there is already an established fanbase. To break that deadlock, the first parties need to put their best games onto the system to attract a fanbase, then the third party support will come.

And IPad doesn´t need that. Game developers have to explain themselves why they are not bringing games to the plattform. The brand is that powerful. Meanwhile devs have to explain themselves when they are releasing games for Vita.


... Stating the obvious here.

 

[zroid]

You mean develop an "official" PSP2 and announce that the Vita was more of an aberration, or dare I ask -- a third pillar?

Whatever they end up doing -- if anything -- I think the keys are the PSP 2/Touch/Dual-stick/etc should not cost much more than the PSP does now, it should be fully backwards compatible with PSP UMDs, and the platform's marketing should be tailored towards both the continuing release of standard PSP games in addition to some enhanced (maybe exclusive) for the new model, where applicable.

Maybe they can continue producing the Vita in low numbers and it can be seen as a "luxury item" of sorts. Essentially, the new model could be seen as a PSP version of the DSi.

 

[Currygan]

Sony had Vita in development for years way before 3DS was even anounced.

I shoulda explained myself better. The initial 250 price tag for the 3DS was perhaps not so bad for Nintendo, because - maybe - it tricked Sony into launching their own handheld at the same price

 

[demidar]

And IPad doesn´t need that. Game developers have to explain themselves why they are not bringing games to the plattform. The brand is that powerful. Meanwhile devs have to explain themselves when they are releasing games for Vita.


... Stating the obvious here.

A great many devs don't make bank on the iOS platform, only a very few achieve substantial success, like Angry Birds. But the thing is Rovio's biggest source of income isn;t selling the games or ad revenue, it's the merchandise.

Vita simply doesn't have the fanbase nor the games (Yes, I know the Vita has great games, but none of them are killer apps that would shift a hundred thousand units). Sony put their B teams on Vita so people saw the lack of faith Sony had in their new system and stayed away.

 

[Father_Brain]

Sony put their B teams on Vita so people saw the lack of faith Sony had in their new system and stayed away.

I think this is a bit of an oversimplification. By and large, Sony's A-teams don't make the kinds of games that actually sell on handhelds, and thus it might not be coincidental that their most "family-friendly" A-team, Media Molecule, seems to be the only one supporting Vita.

 

[jman2050]

The lesson Nintendo learnt with the N64 was that they weren't strong enough to make a system successful against all the other publishers combined effort.

Not then I suppose.

Right now? Well they basically won the console/handheld spaces almost completely on their own so...

 

[demidar]

I think this is a bit of an oversimplification. By and large, Sony's A-teams don't make the kinds of games that actually sell on handhelds, and thus it might not be coincidental that their most "family-friendly" A-team, Media Molecule, seems to be the only one supporting Vita.

What you're saying is that Sony pretty much hamstrung themselves right out of the gate, which is not a smart thing to do.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

As yall must already know... Vita's worst week ever.

Media Create
1. 4,021 (Nov 05, 2012)
2. 4,842 (Oct 29, 2012)
3. 5,806 (Oct 22, 2012)

Famitsu
1. 4,263 (Nov 05, 2012)
2. 5,368 (Oct 29, 2012)
3. 5,849 (May 07, 2012)

Tough month (27k), but Sony will release two new colors tomorrow and I think Vita won't dip below 10k for the rest of the year (holiday boost). I wouldn't be surprised if it does though.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Well, almost all Sony's first parties are geared towards the West and Gran Turismo has been on a steep decline in Japan for years now.

While true, I wouldn't say their 1st party titles are system sellers even in the west or the Vita would've done much better there, imo.

 

[brumx]

Truth is PSP did everything right except for not having a touch screen. All Sony needed to do was add a touch screen and make it a little better and PSP could still compete with 3DS.

 

[Oersted]

A great many devs don't make bank on the iOS platform, only a very few achieve substantial success, like Angry Birds. But the thing is Rovio's biggest source of income isn;t selling the games or ad revenue, it's the merchandise.

Vita simply doesn't have the fanbase nor the games (Yes, I know the Vita has great games, but none of them are killer apps that would shift a hundred thousand units). Sony put their B teams on Vita so people saw the lack of faith Sony had in their new system and stayed away.

More and more devs do. The install base plus F2P are doing their job. And that was my point. You have to explain yourself when you are not bringing your games to the IPad. Besides that, I completly agree with you. Even when you are a little bit overstretching the B-team case. It is part of the problem, not the whole one.

 

[VICI0US]

I just realized the vita sold less this week under "normal" circumstances than the 3DS did the week before its publicly announced, massive price drop.

that's grim.

 

[Aostia]

Until proven otherwise, I assume Japanese developers are going to base most of their development on PS4/XBox 3 simply because they want American sales.

SO you believe that they'll skip both Wii U and 3DS at all?
even the 3ds?

 

[Oersted]

Sony forecasted PSP and Vita would sell 10 million units combined by March 31st, 2013. Would anyone bet on that?

 

[test_account]

That was the last time they made big changes to the series. It has been the same game remade over and over. This is the first one in a long time that has a lot of new original content.

Yeah, but the DS version is the only portable version however (besides the newly released 3DS game of course), so it has been popular on a handheld system before

 

[demidar]

More and more devs do. The install base plus F2P are doing their job. And that was my point. You have to explain yourself when you are not bringing your games to the IPad. Besides that, I completly agree with you.

I would posit that it is simply because iOS is currently carving out its own audience and that it will peak soon. The market is making way for another contender whose audience isn't necessarily coming from traditional consoles and a new status quo will be reached as everything settles again. Same thing with F2P. Even Vita is gaining some ground, albeit extremely, extremely slowly.

 

[Father_Brain]

What you're saying is that Sony pretty much hamstrung themselves right out of the gate, which is not a smart thing to do.

They really should have ramped up original handheld IP development back in the PSP days. They didn't.

 

[Mileena]

8,000,000 3DS.
Good to see the market has chosen his favorite horse.
You know what to do now 3rd party developers.

Make good games that never leave Japan while we're stuck with complete garbage in the US?

 

[demidar]

They really should have ramped up original handheld IP development back in the PSP days. They didn't.

Poor management strikes again.

 

[bradigor]

Sorry if this has been mentioned. However isn't the onus on Sony now to push the Instant Game Collection to sell more Vita units? A bundle with a Vita, 16-32GB Card and 365 PS+ Membership at a decent price, especially in the run up to Christmas, they could potentially make a killing.

Forget selling it to gamers, push it to the more popular culture based areas. Between big TV programme, films, magazines. I rarely see much in the UK, apart from the odd bit showing it along with the PS3 for a major release.

A Christmas mega-bundle of the Vita, Card, PS+ and PS3 could really push people into buying one, especially if they promote the 18 free games across both systems.

Microsoft and Nintendo just seem to have a better grasp on how to sell systems to the mass market, Sony seem to struggle, despite having some fantastic products.

I still think not having some kind of app store model similar to Apple's is a mistake, would love to play many of my iOS titles on the PS Vita.

 

[Mr Swine]

Wow, so much for the 3DS and so little for Vita!

But what are the retailers going to do with these kind of sales? Won't there be risk of them not selling any Vita HW and SW for the future? Selling 4-10k a week is not good for retailers

 

[Fabrik]

Make good games that never leave Japan while we're stuck with complete garbage in the US?

It could change thanks to the eShop. Who would have thought Guild 01 would saw a Western release?

 

[demidar]

It could change thanks to the eShop. Who would have thought Guild 01 would saw a Western release?

Who would've thought Liberation Maiden would get released? Future's looking slightly less dim.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Sony is projecting shipments of 35 million smartphones by the end of the fiscal year. They will be fortunate to reach ltd sales of 5 million for the Vita by then.

What if Sony had simply branded one of their touchscreen smartphones as a gaming device? Get all Android games/apps plus Sony exclusives on the same device, only $199 with 2 year contract, $399-$599 alone. Sure, core gamers would turn up their noses at touchscreen versions of Uncharted and Wipeout, but what's the big loss? These customers are already snubbing the Vita for sub-PS3 graphics and features. Put an HDMI out and a USB port on that sumbitch and it would be ready to rock with a TV and Dual Shock 3. My Galaxy Note 2 can play GTA3 at 720p, I'm pretty sure that's an acceptable level of fidelity for handheld gamers, and I'm damn sure Samsung isn't taking a bath on the hardware.

Sony Computer Entertainment failed to leverage one of their brand's biggest advantages. The Vita is so specifically targeted to one audience that it's the Virtua Fighter 5 of hardware. The Xperia line will make them one of the largest smartphone makers in the world; the Vita might not make it to the first price drop.

 

[Culex]

How long until Vita / PSP are lumped in with their mobile phone figures?

 

[donny2112]

We have seen major discrepancies in the past, then not necessarily Media Create number for Animal Crossing doesn't includes download cards.

They don't. They didn't have the resurgence of Skyrim back in October that Famitsu showed to correspond with the new 360 bundle which included a download card. Famitsu is counting game+installed game+DL card (BEST version install still separate), and Media Create is counting game+installed game (BEST version install combined). Media Create is obviously not tracking the download cards after the Skyrim blip in October and now AC's difference.