Can someone answer these two questions without actually spoiling it?
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MGSV in my opinion is a bad metal gear solid game.
- Thread starter FATALITY
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JadedWriter
Member
HD Peacewalker (never started it) and MGS V are the only two Metal Gear Solid games that aren't the MSX games in my collection that I haven't beaten yet. I think I took a long ass break from V at around mission 22 or 23. Bear in mind I have MGS 1 (Original and Twin Snakes), 2, 3 (Snake Eater and Subsistence), 4, Metal Gear Acid 2 and Revengence. V has great gameplay, but it's just horribly padded and grindy to a point that it loses the fun aspect for me.
1.) You'll be surprised somewhat - so play more.
2.) There are more bosses, but they aren't what you would expect from MGS except for one. One of the biggest let downs of this game is the bosses.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
1. Yes, but keep your expectations low.
2. Yes, but keep your expectations low.
Edit: and I mean really low
Edit 2: and really if those are the only reasons you'd want to continue playing, it is not worth your time.
Fate/Cipher
Member
There are
three
And as far as whether or not we see Solid and Liquid Snake's development over the course of the game:
Only one of the two makes an appearance in-game, and their development is minimal and cut short by cut content.
I stopped playing MGSV shortly after release already disappointed. I went back to it recently to finish it.
I got all of the "endings" and it only made me more disappointed.
I just wanted a traditional MGS game with a story and set pieces.
The game play is great, but nothing else feels right.
partime
Member
Metal Gear 5 really hits the stealth element, which is a big part of all MG games. Being able to sneak around, getting caught, then going guns blazing is what it's all about, and MG5 hits a home run in that regard.
Now the AI does become predictable, but once you realize this you've already invested so much into this game that it doesn't matter too much, and it adds to the fun.
My main gripe is having to manage my motherbase. This was one of the main drawbacks for me going in, and up to 23% completed you really didn't have to worry about it. Now, with the additions to
, it's starting to become a drag.
Now the AI does become predictable, but once you realize this you've already invested so much into this game that it doesn't matter too much, and it adds to the fun.
My main gripe is having to manage my motherbase. This was one of the main drawbacks for me going in, and up to 23% completed you really didn't have to worry about it. Now, with the additions to
security, and managing more than 1x base
Crimsonclaw111
Member
The salt and piss this game generates will never cease to amaze me.
"You're not a real fan"
"It's not a real MGS"
Etc.
Peace Walker only did the story better and people still consider that a MGS even though it's crap and MGSV perfected everything PW tries to do besides the timers.
Portable Ops is still considered a MGS and it's not even canon.
"You're not a real fan"
"It's not a real MGS"
Etc.
Peace Walker only did the story better and people still consider that a MGS even though it's crap and MGSV perfected everything PW tries to do besides the timers.
Portable Ops is still considered a MGS and it's not even canon.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
I finished MGSV a couple of days ago (ie. beat the main missions, not the "repeats", or all of the side-ops), and while I had a great time with it, I'm still disappointed with it. A game can be great and still a disappointment, especially when it's an instalment in one of the best game series' ever.
The engine is fantastic, but my biggest problems with the game are the following:
1) Too repetitive. I wouldn't say I was bored at any point, but the lack of variety in gameplay meant that the initial magic I felt for the first few hours wore off, and never returned. Pretty much every mission involves identifying and taking out all the guards in an area. Very few setpieces or interesting bossfights.
2) The open world was poor. Each area of importance (ie. each base that had enemies stationed there) felt self-contained, and there was no real purpose in going off and exploring. All you'd find is animals and plants, neither of which were particularly interesting. The terrain wasn't particularly impressive; no real rivers, lakes, forests, or anything. I felt that the map in Ground Zeroes was far more well-designed, because of how small it was. This is the perfect example of open-world not automatically being a good thing. I'd rather have had 15 or so maps that were comparable to Camp Omega from GZ, in terms of size and quality.
2) Very weak story. I have no problem with the story that was told, but I was very disappointed by *how* it was told, and that there wasn't enough of it. There weren't enough cutscenes, and while there were a lot of audiotapes, most of these were monologues, which isn't great storytelling. Peace Walker's audiotapes were much better, as Snake was actually involved. Plus, Peace Walker still had plenty of cutscenes (they may have been in a graphic novel style, but that didn't bother me at all).
3) The twist at the end.
I certainly enjoyed MGSV, and I'm glad I finished it, but I doubt I'll ever replay it, which I can't say for any other MGS game.
The engine is fantastic, but my biggest problems with the game are the following:
1) Too repetitive. I wouldn't say I was bored at any point, but the lack of variety in gameplay meant that the initial magic I felt for the first few hours wore off, and never returned. Pretty much every mission involves identifying and taking out all the guards in an area. Very few setpieces or interesting bossfights.
2) The open world was poor. Each area of importance (ie. each base that had enemies stationed there) felt self-contained, and there was no real purpose in going off and exploring. All you'd find is animals and plants, neither of which were particularly interesting. The terrain wasn't particularly impressive; no real rivers, lakes, forests, or anything. I felt that the map in Ground Zeroes was far more well-designed, because of how small it was. This is the perfect example of open-world not automatically being a good thing. I'd rather have had 15 or so maps that were comparable to Camp Omega from GZ, in terms of size and quality.
2) Very weak story. I have no problem with the story that was told, but I was very disappointed by *how* it was told, and that there wasn't enough of it. There weren't enough cutscenes, and while there were a lot of audiotapes, most of these were monologues, which isn't great storytelling. Peace Walker's audiotapes were much better, as Snake was actually involved. Plus, Peace Walker still had plenty of cutscenes (they may have been in a graphic novel style, but that didn't bother me at all).
3) The twist at the end.
It largely undermines the whole game, as it means we've learned very little about Big Boss, and we still don't have a good justification for him going on to become a villain in Metal Gear 1 and 2 (I know it's now established that it was Venom Snake in MG1, but Big Boss was still behind it all). It's a twist that exists for no other reason than to shock the audience; it doesn't add anything to the plot; in fact, it detracts from it.
I certainly enjoyed MGSV, and I'm glad I finished it, but I doubt I'll ever replay it, which I can't say for any other MGS game.
JumpCancel
Banned
MrJoobJoob
Member
MGSV is basically a worse PeaceWalker. Not a bad thing, both games are really great -- but from a gameplay perspective they practically don't belong in the same series as the main Solid games.
Well, let's be honest here, it was very clear that was the case even before launch.
Roni
Gold Member
That's exactly what I mean, the game telling you how to play is the gameplay systems exposing a clear winning strategy in your eyes.
Look, it's clear you don't like this game and even clearer you can't seem to simply not like it - "there must be something wrong with it, some bad game design choices were made" or whatever.
I've seen this a dozen times during the short time I've been here on GAF. I'll rest my case with you, but as a closing statement, I'll leave you with this nugget of logic.
You clearly had some fun with the game when you played under specific conditions... Specific conditions which you are totally able to replicate in any mission of the game.
And yet, unless the game forces you to play under those conditions, you won't. All because, in your mind, if a more effective strategy is available, you must use it.
Why not ditch that outrageous mindset and play the game under the conditions you enjoy? You know, have some fun with the damn game.
Anyway, never mind.
jabberwocker
Banned
The game is unfinished feeling and adds nothing to the story except we now know why we had to kill Big Boss twice. The project was managed poorly. The engine and the gameplay recieved the larger portion of effort. The level design and story suffered.
Wrong.
potatohead
Member
Peace Walker had better story and characterization than MGSV by far.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
I thought they said it wasn't canon? Or is that only certain parts? And I'm sorry I made a tiny mistake, the rest of my rant stands.
Hell, the scene where Big Boss rejects The Boss when she "puts down her gun", and then takes off his bandana and throws it into the wind... That scene ALONE puts Peace Walker so far ahead MGSV in characterization.
As per Kojima himself, the main plot of Portable Ops is 100% canon, but "there may be details that don't fit". Still, Portable Ops' story cinematics were featured in Metal Gear Solid 4, and even a painting in Eva's church.
I didn't like Peace Walker or MGSV, so I don't have a dog in the fight.
I would have liked a game more along the lines of MGS3 and that's not what we got.
JadedWriter
Member
I can't even go back to it currently. I was just stuck in an endless loop of doing side missions and sending my guys out to do missions so I can get more gmp so I can expand my mother base only to keep finding out that I can't do shit cause I don't have enough fuel resources. It just kept feeling like some sort of slog for me so I put it down and haven't picked it up for weeks. Good gameplay but god damn I'm not happy with the game the way it is. I play MGS games for the characters, wonky as fuck story and set pieces, V is too different. I get where they were going with it, but it wasn't necessarily for the better. If I wanted to deal with grinding I'd play a JRPG, not a Metal Gear Solid game.
Keihart
Member
I would rank portable ops>MGSV>PW by how much fun they were when released. Obviously the gameplay in MGSV is much better than portable ops, but the game was a lot more memorable for it story and the build up to the boss fights and the characters you encounter.
MGSV is a really good game in my book, but a dissapointment nevertheless, the trailers are best ones tho :V
I really think that with one more year of development it would have been the perfect MGS.
potatohead
Member
That is a big problem with the game IMO too.
The progression system simply isn't fun for people who just want to go through the story.
It's far too punishing and time consuming and costly in terms of the in-game currency.
MGS gameplay is as much about the toys you get as the sneaking, so a MGS game that locks out players for hours before getting the toys they need and want for new missions is just stupid.
Before I replay on PC again I absolutely require that a mod completely reworks the R&D system for Mother Base and weapons/buddy research.
Also the bosses fucking suck. Fuck Kojimaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! WHY!? Quiet was literally the only good boss... and character.... so ridiculous for a MGS game.
Peace Walker is kind of like a proto-version of MGSV.
And it has a more linear progression a la MGS3.
Even though it also has a lot of side ops, Peace Walker is almost like a better MGS blend than MGSV.... it's like halfway between MGS3 and MGSV, which is probably what MGSV really should have been.
MrJoobJoob
Member
MGSV is basically PeaceWalker with a worse story & execution, a mostly unnecessary open world, no bosses, no co-op, and more load times.
JadedWriter
Member
I will also admit that there are not enough bosses in the game, great bosses are a franchise staple. So far the only boss I fought was Quiet back in Act 11, seriously, felt like 30 hourse ago...no scratch that I fought the man on fire once and that was just me running around in a circle avoiding fireballs. I pretty much got through most of the missions after a certain point by using a silenced sniper rifle and Quiets silenced sniper rifle. I just take guys randomly. It's just find guy, get blue print, destroy some tanks or just fulton what they ask you to destroy. Upgrading your chopper is fucking expensive and it just takes forever unlocking everything. I can call in a tank to drive around, but that's fucking expensive, I walk/run every where cause dropping a jeep next to me is fucking expensive, I haven't really upgraded certain things in a while cause it's either expensive or it wouldn't change up the basic gameplay too much. I'm just running around putting people to sleep or killing people if I fuck up my stealth or I just have Quiet put people to sleep and i mop up everything else. Or I'm just attaching balloons to a bunch of shit. I never even bothered buying the capture cage cause it's one extra thing to put money into so I don't even have probably 10% of the animals in the damn game.
Peace Walker is real bad. The only part of the story that contributed to the MGS lore was the final sequence, and it didn't develop any interesting themes. It ruined The Boss by twisting the ending from MGS3 unnecessarily. Gameplay was also worse than in MGS3, the game from it borrows its lack of crouch walk , with repetitive Monster Hunter type of areas in a non Monster Hunter type of game. The AI is amazingly bad and soldiers won't go check the surroundings even if they see something strange many times. There is not much to do if you like stealth. And you have to play hide and seek with Zadornov like 10 times before being able to play the final mission.
Seeing people comparing it positively to any other MG game amazes me, but to each one's own I guess. MGSV is the ultimate Metal Gear maker, you can play each chapter by landing in different areas and with totally different equipment, buddies, following different routes and objective priorities, etc. and they feel totally new in an almost arcadey way. I cannot get enough of this game and after 300 hours it still keeps me going back to it to try new things.
I also found the story and exposition adequate for the type of game it is that favors the player's actions above all, with lots of background information for the ones who want to know more. It's very Nintendo-ish in design.
Seeing people comparing it positively to any other MG game amazes me, but to each one's own I guess. MGSV is the ultimate Metal Gear maker, you can play each chapter by landing in different areas and with totally different equipment, buddies, following different routes and objective priorities, etc. and they feel totally new in an almost arcadey way. I cannot get enough of this game and after 300 hours it still keeps me going back to it to try new things.
I also found the story and exposition adequate for the type of game it is that favors the player's actions above all, with lots of background information for the ones who want to know more. It's very Nintendo-ish in design.
tensuke
Member
It has the best Metal Gear of any MGS game, but sadly it underutilizes it. I loved PW having essentially 5 Metal Gears to fight. If MGSV mixed multiple Metal Gear fights (even fighting the same one multiple times...) plus actual boss fights plus insane cutscenes plus its amazing gameplay, it would be GAME OF THE FOREVER. As it is, it's still a great game, but there's definitely a longing for something more.
TheKastorian
Member
Couldn't agree more.
No shit, maybe that's why I wrote it in the spoiler tag.
JumpCancel
Banned
The A.I was balanced for a control scheme with only 1 analogue stick. Hyper reactive guards wouldn't have fitted with the lack of control you had on the PSP. The final Zadornov mission was brilliant. I'm sure it kept most people puzzled as to where he could be. From there it lead to an actual "ending" rather than revealing an event that should have been shown at the start of the game, instead of attempting to be this twist from left field (which most people saw or at least expected). The unlocking requirements are not clear and do not lead the player to the final mission, instead just gives them access.
Tranqueris
Banned
I thought the game was good, I don't really regret the time I spent on it. That being said, after I finished it I didn't go back to it once, I didn't think twice about deleting it for space and in a few weeks it'll reach that Evolve status in my mind where I'll have forgotten just about everything about the game.
What? All Zadornov missions are plain bad and they just pad out the game with goofy and repetitive hide and seek missions that were not funny or interesting to do. The recycled chapters in MGSV are optional and you are not forced to do them all to see the last mission. I did some of them, focused on the main misions and replayed some others while doing some FOBs in and between. I was having lots of fun with them and with the new cutscenes that took place from 30 and onwards and I was not expecting an ending mission of sorts at all. At some point in PW I was tempted to check a walkthrough to see if the game was just messing with me and how many were left. There was no progression at all.
For me it was a very disappointing game that didn't try to justify itself its existence. It didn't have the Kojima's flair, it didn't try anything new, nor in narrative or in gameplay. It didn't explain anything new. What was the point of the game then?
JumpCancel
Banned
So the fact your expectations were so low you didn't expect an ending at all redeemed misson 43's inclusion. Ok, I'm not going to be able to dissuade you of that.
There was progression throught the game, and even with the padding "Zadornov" at least they knew they were padding. Not rehashing older missions with difficulty multipliers, that should have been available for all missions. After you find Zadornov,
you kill him, and the final battle with Zeke piloted by Paz ensues. Not that the intro is shown from another perspective as a delayed "YOU WERE THE MEDIC ALL ALONG!" empty ending.
If however you're being literal about which order to do missions on, the ALL missions tab showed you the unlock order. It couldn't have been simpler.
And finally, the point of the game was to show Big Boss creating the beginnings of Outer Heaven. It detailed its establishment, growth and the image and legend of Big Boss on the battlefield. As for "Kojima flair" I suggest you play the game and listen to the tapes. Flair all over the place.
MGSV could be cut out of the timeline and would change nothing. It basically solves a plothole from the MSX games that most people didn't question.
And it wasn't even a plothole.
Barry Burton
Member
I agree that it is a bad Metal Gear game, but I love the shit out of it for reasons that are different from the others. And I love the previous Metal Gears (well, some of them...sorry MGS4) for reasons that are different from those of MGSV.
MGSV definitely has its shortcomings and deserves legitimate criticism, but I can't deny the nearly 300 hours I've put into it. It is fun as hell. I think it belongs in the upper tier of MG games along with MGS2 and 3. Those are great and so is this, but for so many other reasons.
MGSV definitely has its shortcomings and deserves legitimate criticism, but I can't deny the nearly 300 hours I've put into it. It is fun as hell. I think it belongs in the upper tier of MG games along with MGS2 and 3. Those are great and so is this, but for so many other reasons.
Gravy Boat
Member
I agree. Loved every other game in the series but haven't bothered to finish this one. Got to mission 42 or something and just don't feel the urge to go back to it. All the Mother Base and FOB stuff just felt like a waste of time, as did most of the side missions, and there were only a few missions that I actually felt were repayable. I also didn't like their approach to story telling and all of the characters seemed to fall flat.
Not a terrible game overall, but definitely the weakest in the series for me and overall quite disappointing.
Not a terrible game overall, but definitely the weakest in the series for me and overall quite disappointing.
I might be in the extreme minority, but MGS2 was a bigger letdown for me than MGS5.
Fate/Cipher
Member
MGSV has Hakeem Olajuwon talent, but Michael Olowokandi execution.
MakeMeFeelAlive
Member
I love metal gear. I enjoy mgs5, it is overall a good game. But I agree with your main premise, it is not a metal gear solid game. It's a weird catch 22. What moves it away from being a "mgs" game are the things that make it a cool and interesting game. It is a little too long for my taste. It does feel a bit too vast. But I enjoy it. Oddly, despite me really liking the game, the fact that it isn't a traditional mgs game keeps me from finishing it. I really don't care about the story. I probably lost track of what was supposed to be happening or what it all means. I just play for the gameplay and cause it's fun doing missions.
My biggest issue with The Phantom Pain is that Far Cry already exists. There's a series that pretty good at doing the hostile open-world thing, and TPP doesn't all that much to the table.
Thinking of it as a spin-off, MGSV and not as MGS5 (like Kojima has hinted at), increased my opinion of it. Metal Gear Solid is almost a genre unto itself, and getting a game that owes more of its identity to Splinter Cell and Far Cry than it does to Metal Gear Solid was and is disappointing.
Thinking of it as a spin-off, MGSV and not as MGS5 (like Kojima has hinted at), increased my opinion of it. Metal Gear Solid is almost a genre unto itself, and getting a game that owes more of its identity to Splinter Cell and Far Cry than it does to Metal Gear Solid was and is disappointing.
MGSV's post game had new story missions and new content apart from the optional recycled missions, with new cutscenes and plot developments dealing with Paz, Quiet, Huey, the man on fire, Mantis, the parasites, Eli (sort of...) and lots of background information on Code Talker, Skullface, Zero, Cipher, etc. The game ended in 31, the Skullface plot - the rest is just the post game, the extra for passionate and persistent players, and where they give closure to several characters and subplots.
PW post game is a joke, it's just the Zadornov missions with just joke dialogue of Kaz telling you he escaped again until you find him for the last time. There is nothing new in between. As a way to reward players for reaching that far, it's just poor and lazy. And the worst thing is that they are compulsory for unlocking the true ending, which is just some dialogue and a (cool) fight.
Peace Walker could have been removed from the timeline altogether, you don't make a game just for the three minutes where you tell the players that a big militaristic figure with his own outlaw militar organization, revered like a messiah by his fanatic soldiers and armed with a giant robot and a nuke is going to be demonized by the Western establishment. As a standalone story, Peace Walker doesn't have anything beyond messing with the beauty of The Boss' story. MGSV's story struggles to add new lore to the series (as everything beyond MGS4) but as a standalone story is much better and what it does is unique in structure, presentation, mood, gameplay. That is Kojima pushing the gameplay and narrative boundaries of the series, even if it doesn't met the expectations in some areas. PW is just a watered down MGS3 with worse map design, worse AI, worse controls, story, everything, but there is nothing like MGSV.
I mean, are you really comparing the two? I'm sorry but I can't see how PW's horrendous postgame is better than MGSV's one. You could play through the whole franchise two or three times until you could 100% MGSV, it's not short in content or possibilities.
This has been my experience for the most part. Pretty indifferent to the plot.
The voice acting was meh overall.
David Hayter was something quite special. Still get nostalgia when I hear his voice in the older games.