Just did this. That's really cool they made a cutscene for this.
Sorry dudes. I'll get more dough.
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MGSV The Phantom Pain - One Year Later
- Thread starter Kindekuma
- Start date
Sorry dudes. I'll get more dough.
Yes just 2-3 (!) of them just so that time advances... and in one of my previous post I advise people to go for the side ops for Paz side story which is not required for the ending, but which is a very important imo part of the story. So if you do just these side ops which are story related and important you are set.
in essense the point still stands though that apart from just 3 side missions, side or remixed stuff is not required to finish the game.
If Kojima would have put some GTA into it we wouldn't have this MB thing but only all the story relevant NPCs who gave you missions ON the map in Afghanistan and Africa, which i would have loved more. But still a great game.
I'm so glad it's not like that. That would turn the map away from a tool I use to progress through missions, into an open space I have to traverse every time I want to do something interesting.
The ACC and MB are such good choices. They break up the game play, they make the maps interesting.
forcevapour
Banned
Think I played 75 hours of mgsv, then I had to watch the real ending on youtube....it honestly soured the whole experience for me and I'd rate it bottom of the franchise
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
by real ending do you mean the eli/mantis one? i mean i know it technically does fill in the timeline of what happened after they left but its sort of irrelevant in that we know what happens to both of those characters eventually. the whole point of the game is to reveal venom snake, anything else is just totally fan service. the truth is this game needs way more exposition on the zero/patriots than any other plot point in the game.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
Well, as far as Big Boss' MGS games go, it sort of was his ending game haha.
And you could sort of view MGS V as a sort of Metal Gear Rising... Metal Gear Venom -- the Venom story between Big Boss and Solid Snake.
cj_iwakura
Member
V felt like the story of how BB and Kaz drifted apart.
Its amazing how many people seem to forget BB's actions in MGSV. The guy, is willing to have countless innocent people die just so he can save his ass.
What he does to V is also appalling, even though he didnt start it, he very much agreed into it without much hesitation.
Then after V finds out the truth, he again is called upon to pretty much sacrifice his life in order for Big Boss to save his ass once again.
If you ask me, BB is a pretty dark bastard in MGSV. Just because it is not thrown directly in your face, that doesnt mean that his actions are unaccountable or something...
What he does to V is also appalling, even though he didnt start it, he very much agreed into it without much hesitation.
Then after V finds out the truth, he again is called upon to pretty much sacrifice his life in order for Big Boss to save his ass once again.
If you ask me, BB is a pretty dark bastard in MGSV. Just because it is not thrown directly in your face, that doesnt mean that his actions are unaccountable or something...
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
In GZ, when Kaz first says that Paz is alive, Big Boss' initial response is "So what's the plan, silence her before we're compromised?"
I've been playing it the last couple of weeks and I enjoyed it. I've always liked stealth games so sneaking into facilities was cool. I haven't played any other MGS game so sometimes I had no clue what was going on, some things just didn't make sense to me and that's fine. Now all I'm gonna do is finish up the missions with added difficulty, develop some more stuff and get some more trophies and them I'm done with it.
The entirety of Mother Base's staff, is expendable for Big Boss... that pretty much sums him up as how fucked up he is.
Rotch Crot
Banned
When did he have countless innocent people die?
Hospital scene. Countless innocent bystanders got gunned down as a distraction so he and Venom Snake could escape. And it's no coincidence. One of the truth tapes revealed that the patients were there as shield for them.
A subtitle that seems too close for comfort.
I may have talked to Kojima and shaked his hand this year but it doesn't really give me any comfort about what I experienced at the ending of the game when I sunk 300 hours into. It legitimately made me feel like all my efforts and all the emotions I've went through, let alone my consumption of the whole franchise, feel "hallow" and I'm still uncertain this was ever the right decision to go.
A god damn phantom pain.
I may have talked to Kojima and shaked his hand this year but it doesn't really give me any comfort about what I experienced at the ending of the game when I sunk 300 hours into. It legitimately made me feel like all my efforts and all the emotions I've went through, let alone my consumption of the whole franchise, feel "hallow" and I'm still uncertain this was ever the right decision to go.
A god damn phantom pain.
I think that was really the only loose thread that Peace Walker had still left open before MGSV. I think just about everything else had run it's course or been explained at that point.
Agent Gibbs
Member
it was an amazing open world game, but a mediocre Metal Gear game;
For me the story and characterisations were weak
(from most annoying to minor gripes)
I'll start with the most irritating; Big Boss's voice actor and the reasoning behind the switch - David Hayter was always snake, and whilst the direction and scripts he was given near the end had more hammy performances, that was a product of the stories. Fast forward to him unceremoniously being dropped for Kojima's lust affair with Jack Baur/Keither Sutherland, it was painfully obvious that this decision was not based on what the statements were it was pure fanboyism. The justification given was for the acting prowess and to convey emotions more subtly (than Hayter could), which is something I could believe if Snake actually spoke during visual scenes, he barely grunts with the vast majority of the plot hidden behind audio tapes - something that could easily have been done with Hayter
It further hurt the game itself as hayters fees will have been considerably higher than Hayters, money that could have been spent on......
The Story
My god what a drab and short story stretched out to breaking point over the course of the game, there wasn't enough plot there to fill it all, which is why so many missions centred around irrelevant tasks or repeated missions.
Snakeface who was the main villain was very weak and barely there in the story, with poor motivation really, right up until the 'End' I thought it was going to be revealed he wasn't the big bad guy
It was the usual convoluted MGS Story, but what was there was good, it just felt unfinished, the most glaring point and example of this is
Mission 51
Salahanthropus itself was awesome, but it felt far too advanced compared to Metal Gear Rex which would be its successor, unless all knowledge, wreckage etc of it were erased and that's just never addressed.
I also missed the distinctive boss fights from the previous games with unique enemies, MGSV only really had the burning man (with Psycho mantis sort of) and repeated encountered with the skulls, who themselves were just heavy normal enemies. Whilst not a terrible thing it was lacking something, some unique leaders or bosses who spoke and had meaning to the story, the skulls were just more advanced cannon fodder (Fulton extraction fodder)
Fultoning and Motherbase itself also were a little too grindy, I was compelled during the early game to not kill anyone and just extract everyone in a mission so I could upgrade weapons. it was only by the end where only certain enemies were useful and the realisation that every weapon was so similar that it was pointless that I could forgo that playstyle and kill or avoid 90% of enemies.
This was further hampered by the ridiculous level costs of the 'online' weapons that became available, which are just forever unobtainable because of it
All in all I could live with the lack of true boss battles odd management/fultron system but the issues with the story were just so jarring and emersion breaking for me, frankly that tweet from Konami the other day stating mission 51 was never meant to be in the game is laughable, it was obviously cut around the time they fired Kojima and began to push this game out finished or not
For me the story and characterisations were weak
(from most annoying to minor gripes)
I'll start with the most irritating; Big Boss's voice actor and the reasoning behind the switch - David Hayter was always snake, and whilst the direction and scripts he was given near the end had more hammy performances, that was a product of the stories. Fast forward to him unceremoniously being dropped for Kojima's lust affair with Jack Baur/Keither Sutherland, it was painfully obvious that this decision was not based on what the statements were it was pure fanboyism. The justification given was for the acting prowess and to convey emotions more subtly (than Hayter could), which is something I could believe if Snake actually spoke during visual scenes, he barely grunts with the vast majority of the plot hidden behind audio tapes - something that could easily have been done with Hayter
It further hurt the game itself as hayters fees will have been considerably higher than Hayters, money that could have been spent on......
The Story
My god what a drab and short story stretched out to breaking point over the course of the game, there wasn't enough plot there to fill it all, which is why so many missions centred around irrelevant tasks or repeated missions.
Snakeface who was the main villain was very weak and barely there in the story, with poor motivation really, right up until the 'End' I thought it was going to be revealed he wasn't the big bad guy
It was the usual convoluted MGS Story, but what was there was good, it just felt unfinished, the most glaring point and example of this is
Eli, Salahanthropus and Psycho Mantis!
near the end of the game, after defeating Snakeface and claiming the trophy of Salahanthropus, it is summarily repaired by Huey for Eli and Psycho Mantis, who then flee Motherbase with an operation metal gear and a desire to show the world who's boss.........................................
And then its never fucking mentioned again?
WHAT? seriously a huge emersion breaking point of the story is just left?
No to be continued, no teaser after the credits of a sixth game to deal with that or anything, just gone?!
So this game which serves as almost a direct prequel to Metal Gear Solid does not explain how Eli looses Salahanthropus, Joins Foxhound, then performs the shadow moses incident? As the game is left he has a more advance Metal Gear than Rex that we are to just assume disappears and the world never learns of......Right gotcha
And then its never fucking mentioned again?
WHAT? seriously a huge emersion breaking point of the story is just left?
No to be continued, no teaser after the credits of a sixth game to deal with that or anything, just gone?!
So this game which serves as almost a direct prequel to Metal Gear Solid does not explain how Eli looses Salahanthropus, Joins Foxhound, then performs the shadow moses incident? As the game is left he has a more advance Metal Gear than Rex that we are to just assume disappears and the world never learns of......Right gotcha
Salahanthropus itself was awesome, but it felt far too advanced compared to Metal Gear Rex which would be its successor, unless all knowledge, wreckage etc of it were erased and that's just never addressed.
I also missed the distinctive boss fights from the previous games with unique enemies, MGSV only really had the burning man (with Psycho mantis sort of) and repeated encountered with the skulls, who themselves were just heavy normal enemies. Whilst not a terrible thing it was lacking something, some unique leaders or bosses who spoke and had meaning to the story, the skulls were just more advanced cannon fodder (Fulton extraction fodder)
Fultoning and Motherbase itself also were a little too grindy, I was compelled during the early game to not kill anyone and just extract everyone in a mission so I could upgrade weapons. it was only by the end where only certain enemies were useful and the realisation that every weapon was so similar that it was pointless that I could forgo that playstyle and kill or avoid 90% of enemies.
This was further hampered by the ridiculous level costs of the 'online' weapons that became available, which are just forever unobtainable because of it
All in all I could live with the lack of true boss battles odd management/fultron system but the issues with the story were just so jarring and emersion breaking for me, frankly that tweet from Konami the other day stating mission 51 was never meant to be in the game is laughable, it was obviously cut around the time they fired Kojima and began to push this game out finished or not
Apart from the Hospital scene and whoever was gunned down in clean up ops hunting for Big Boss, you must realize that for Big Boss, V, the entire staff of Mother Base, are all expendables. So long as he stays in the clear and he is thought to be V, his plan is working.
So, basically BB is ready and willing to sacrifice all these people and he uses them as a distraction. Edit: And you have to see the irony here... BB being all about soldiers finding a place to call home, not being manipulated by governments, only for him to use, to deceive and to manipulate them in the same manner...
Thats pretty darn evil if you ask me, and he does that again with V and the Outer Heaven staff in Metal Gear events. He is pure evil and there is nothing heroic about him any more. He went on to be a part of futile stupid war, in hopes of realizing his interpretation of the Boss's Will, just like he explains in the epilogue of MGS4.
MGSV pretty much establishes him as an asshole and Venom Snake is pivotal for understanding the dark place BB is in.
Your line of reasoning is pretty sound but "pure evil" is a pretty big exaggeration. I don't think they ever quite left anyone in the series in that category, just about everyone had reasons for what they did, especially Boss.
He certainly wasn't heroic at that point though and it's totally inaccurate for people to try to act like the Outer Heaven/Zanzibar Land incidents are out of character for him post MGSV.
But it is evil. Ok remove the pure part, maybe that's too much I agree.
But he is nonetheless evil at that point. All his ideals about soldiers are thrown out the window just so he can escape and continue his war against Zero. Also, what he does to V is simply horrible. He destroys whatever this person was completely. Yes he was not the one to start this process, or even the one who thought about it, but he was on board the moment it was explained to him. His only worry was whether this plan will work... at no point was he interested about what the medic was put through... or what will happen to the person he was. Same for all the innocent people at the hospital who were there just to act as bullet sponges for him.
Its all evil really.
swearing-circle
Member
Still the most important aspect to me in regards to BB's character is the parallel between him and the US government.
In MGS3 the US used their best soldier The Boss to take the fall for them. Big Boss hated them for this.
However, in 5.
We can see his ideals have changed because he uses V in the exact same way from behind the scenes. He's a hypocrite.
Yeah overall I agreed with you, he definitely overstepped the line in a lot of ways and he was completely in line with his later character. I think it's ridiculous people are claiming otherwise but it's probably just a negative response to the bait and switch with the main character.
That whole thing sounds kind of familiar, wasn't there some other game that came out and tricked people into thinking a different character was the lead? I vaguely remember a lot of people were upset about that one too and acted like the game was bad because of that too.
I wish I could remember the name of that game...
Yeah after V came out it became pretty apparent that both Zero and Boss basically came what they were initially going against trying to follow thier interpretation of the Boss's will.
I also realized that Solid Snake was supposed to mirror her, essentially using the same ideals as she was established to have and also making the ultimate sacrifice to bring peace. The major difference is that they changed the ending for 4 so Snake didn't die, but aside from that I think it holds true and was intentional.
Now I'd like to shift the focus from Big Boss for a sec and bring up perhaps the only character who can be termed pure evil in the series. Colonel Volgin. Not only does he kill anyone he believes betrayed him, he seems to enjoy torture and even murdered his own men just to start an international conflict when he launched the missile. What do you guys think?
HyperBitHero
Member
Huge letdown. Ambitious, but not able to achieve much of it.
Definitely. This guy truly deserves the term like no one else in MGS universe. (i havent played Rising though and I dont think I ever will).
Yep. While Liquid can be snobbish and even heartless, at least we can understand why he behaves this way. Volgin just straight up murders and tortures people for no apparent reason, LOL.
To be honest, that's one thing I love about MGS. There is never a clear line between heroes and villains. Even the supposedly "bad guys" have a sensible reason for the bad deeds they commit. Well, except Volgin.
Well,he kinda had no choice tbh..Zero and Ocelot had already set the plan in motion without his consent.
The funny thing is that the doppleganger plan was supposed to make Venom think that he is the real BB for a few years,yet BB sent him a picture revealing everything lol.
Ocelot: It's the perfect ruse and he will believe it until you're ready.He will take your place for a long time so we must not let him find the truth.
BB: Ok,just let me sent him this cute pic so he has a nice memory when he wakes up,oh let me write something down first "thank you pal, your friend B-I-G B-O-S-S"
Ocelot: *facepalm* you fucking retard..
RyanardoDaVinci
Member
It's an Arsenal Gear-sized disappointment, but it's still a joy to play.
I deleted my save of 100+hrs, where I had everything developed and 2 FOB's fully staffed with all S/S+/S++ soldiers.
I'm having a blast playing only the vital missions, using only Desert/Green Tiger camo and unsuppressed .45 pistol/base AR, and C4 -- OSP everything else.
Though it's not a Metal Gear game to me, MGSV now stands for Mighty Guy Sneaking, Venom.
I deleted my save of 100+hrs, where I had everything developed and 2 FOB's fully staffed with all S/S+/S++ soldiers.
I'm having a blast playing only the vital missions, using only Desert/Green Tiger camo and unsuppressed .45 pistol/base AR, and C4 -- OSP everything else.
Though it's not a Metal Gear game to me, MGSV now stands for Mighty Guy Sneaking, Venom.
RAIDEN1
Member
When Metal Gear 4 came out in 2008, that game was the game-changer for me in terms of getting a Playstation for the first time..hell I even brought the imported version of the game from Hong Kong, just to play it asap.
For me, Metal Gear 5 TPP, doesn't have that sort of "pull" for me, it's all well and good having an open expansive world in this series for the first time, but at the expense of an engrossing immersive story? WTF? How many years have Kojima and co had on working on the story, and they could barely put one together?
..And whats going on with the "blatant" sexulisation of Quiet, was it necessary?
As I mentioned elsewhere till date the best game I have played on the PS4 is Uncharted 4, that game draws you in completely.. Metal Gear 5 TPP seems barren in comparison..
I've thought about trading in the Phantom Pain for the new Deus Ex game, but I am torn between trading it in, or just holding onto it a while longer and trying again to enjoy it, I wouldn't put this MGS game as a game of the year contender...graphically yeah it has the wow factor....but beneath that nothing hugely outstanding...
For me, Metal Gear 5 TPP, doesn't have that sort of "pull" for me, it's all well and good having an open expansive world in this series for the first time, but at the expense of an engrossing immersive story? WTF? How many years have Kojima and co had on working on the story, and they could barely put one together?
..And whats going on with the "blatant" sexulisation of Quiet, was it necessary?
As I mentioned elsewhere till date the best game I have played on the PS4 is Uncharted 4, that game draws you in completely.. Metal Gear 5 TPP seems barren in comparison..
I've thought about trading in the Phantom Pain for the new Deus Ex game, but I am torn between trading it in, or just holding onto it a while longer and trying again to enjoy it, I wouldn't put this MGS game as a game of the year contender...graphically yeah it has the wow factor....but beneath that nothing hugely outstanding...
You're reaching pretty damn hard to justify Big Boss's sudden heel turn. None of the "Big Boss doesn't care and now thinks his soldiers are expendable" shit makes any sense, especially when Ground Zeroes has him so distraught over a a soldier dying in his arms that he screams and charges in to shoot more enemies out of anger. Hell, he lands his helicopter to save whoever he can, Kaz included. Sure, somewhere between Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain, he turned into an asshole, but we didn't actually get to see that. We never saw "men becoming demons". It just suddenly happened off-screen.
The game was datamined a long time ago, nobody thinks it's on the disc
Maybe it could've been DLC if things hadn't gone sour with Konami
It's pretty obvious that CH3 doesn't exists,the best we can expect is the "peace" title card and the disarmament cutscene.
Also,there's nothing else to unlock in the game(key items,weapons,animals,achievements/trophies etc) so i don't think there's hidden content.
GekigangerV
Member
I loved the core mechanics of the game, but was let down by most of the missions.
Nothing really has the same "oomph" as Ground Zeroes. Maybe the Miller Rescue mission, but that is still a bit off.
Map design isn't as strong as Camp Omega either. OKB Zero gets a bit close, but is a fairly linear experience.
It is a shame that Kojima couldn't put in something similar to the helicopter mission in Ground Zeroes just to have something different. You can go in with a helicopter in one or two missions, but is no where near as fun. The one I remember is C2W where you shoot the communication stuff in 20 seconds and are out of there.
The game needed at least three more story support characters for variety. One for Afghanistan, one for African and one for the animal sanctuary strut.
The Afghanistan and Africa ones could have easily been done with stuff already in the game. The arm engineer and one of the child soldiers could have been made REAL characters.
I would have liked to have seen a 80's pop culture character for the animal sanctuary area. Someone who could have commentated on the various music tapes you have picked up along the way.
I have put some 240 hours into The Phantom Pain and 60 into Ground Zeroes and I think I am dwindling down of The Phantom Pain. MGO really hasn't been as fun as I wanted and Mother Base invasions can get a bit tedious with some of the more advanced defense options.
Nothing really has the same "oomph" as Ground Zeroes. Maybe the Miller Rescue mission, but that is still a bit off.
Map design isn't as strong as Camp Omega either. OKB Zero gets a bit close, but is a fairly linear experience.
It is a shame that Kojima couldn't put in something similar to the helicopter mission in Ground Zeroes just to have something different. You can go in with a helicopter in one or two missions, but is no where near as fun. The one I remember is C2W where you shoot the communication stuff in 20 seconds and are out of there.
The game needed at least three more story support characters for variety. One for Afghanistan, one for African and one for the animal sanctuary strut.
The Afghanistan and Africa ones could have easily been done with stuff already in the game. The arm engineer and one of the child soldiers could have been made REAL characters.
I would have liked to have seen a 80's pop culture character for the animal sanctuary area. Someone who could have commentated on the various music tapes you have picked up along the way.
I have put some 240 hours into The Phantom Pain and 60 into Ground Zeroes and I think I am dwindling down of The Phantom Pain. MGO really hasn't been as fun as I wanted and Mother Base invasions can get a bit tedious with some of the more advanced defense options.
None of what I said makes sense? I am trying to "justify" things? Sure man. Whatever.
Mentioning Ground Zeroes and how BB was distraught has nothing to do with anything that I said. And I dont have to justify anything, MGS3 Peace Walker and GZ did this, by laying the ground, to him waking up 9 years later acting like he did in MGSV. It didnt require anything more than that really. Peace Walker was pretty enough to justify BB's demons and his eventual "turn". Even in GZ's tapes he sounds cold and angry. Then MB gets destroyed and thats the final nail in the coffin for what he stood for.
MIght as well ask here.
So I have an MGSV save file with about 50 hours on it but I'd like to start a new game. Can I just save my old file onto a USB stick in case I get annoyed 10 hours in and want to go back to the old save?
Also, I have never gone online with it since a week or two after launch (always declining the newer TOS) because last year it would prevent some of the FOB shit from mucking with the game. Is that all moot now? Should I just cave in and go online with it?
So I have an MGSV save file with about 50 hours on it but I'd like to start a new game. Can I just save my old file onto a USB stick in case I get annoyed 10 hours in and want to go back to the old save?
Also, I have never gone online with it since a week or two after launch (always declining the newer TOS) because last year it would prevent some of the FOB shit from mucking with the game. Is that all moot now? Should I just cave in and go online with it?
If the "heel turn" is so sudden what is the deal with the speech at the end of Peace Walker, and why is he keeping nuclear weapons and hiding them.
He may have been distraught over the death of one of his soldiers, but he initially thought using Venom the way he used him was wrong too. Same with having the nuke in Peace Walker.
I know you and a lot of people wanted the game to be about Big Boss but it's pretty hard to ignore all the things they showed us that had him heading down that oarh, even though he was out of sight for most of MGSV.
Adam_Vania
Banned
this right here. hell yes.
MGSV draws a lot of comparisons to MGS3. feel like the whole Quiet subplot is also an attempt to invert the Snake/The Boss arc.
Solid Shammy
Banned
I wanna tackle some of the bigger criticisms for MGSV, mainly its story, because I feel that it does a lot of great things that feel under appreciated by the majority. The Pantom Pain is paced like a TV show. It's obvious that Kojima Productions intended for this one to be a slow burn. With a steady tension that builds as the story escalates to its conclusion. Chapter 1 perfectly captures this, its paced to fluctuate at intervals until the crescendo towards the end. The previous games were of course paced like Hollywood blockbusters, so the shift in style came as a shock. But it was a necessary change, the game is no longer linear, it's open world, and its story knows that. I play a lot of open world games, and often come to a point in these games where I need to rush through the story just to enjoy the full breadth of their content. Why? Because their stories are often paced like 2 hour movies. Sometimes I just want to go a have a game of chess, yet my sister's been kidnapped, and now I feel uncomfortable doing all of this side content. But in the end it doesn't matter that my sister has been kidnapped, because it doesn't actually effect the gameplay in any meaningful way. It's more of a problem with me, I can't help but force myself through the story, I just don't feel comfortable exploring all of this side content when my main character should be in a state of distress.
So how does MGSV handle this? Quite damn exceptionally. MGSV starts with a pilot episode, Ground Zeroes. This pilot is the bridge between Peace Walker and The Phantom Pain. The conclusion for one, and a beginning for another. The Phantom Pain is at a stark contrast to what came before. It's filled with miserably serious characters, and very light on humour compared to Peace Walker. I often felt longing for the times of Peace Walker, how fun and witty it was. I missed it. But now I was in MGSV, a direct sequel, yet very different game.
The Phantom Pain opens with a very drawn out experience. You wake up from your 9 year coma, and are now bed ridden. It takes a whole hour before you escape the hospital. It's a very memorable experience, and it's also a goodbye. A goodbye to the previous Metal Gear games. They were highly scripted, and of course linear. The hospital is the perfect analogy of what came before. When you escape, and enter Afghanistan for the first time, it's supposed to be overwhelming, Ground Zeroes attempted to ready you for the experience, but it still didn't anticipate you for the complete freedom that this new world opens for you. After rescuing Kaz, you are now introduced to the real game. The story knows this. It lets you, the player, the Big Boss, play at your own pace. You're free to experiment with the side ops, explore the world, dabble in all of the games content, and the story doesn't intrude. No early story mission has a cliff hanger, or something to entice you to play more. It merely grooves at your beat, and continues when you want it to. Every early episode is self-contained, they all end with a credits sequence. You don't feel guilty for letting the story hang while you build your motherbase, because it doesn't. It accounts for your agency.
Now the brilliant thing about this is when the story does take centre, it forces you the player to pay attention to it. The Phantom Pain isn't afraid to hurt your gameplay, it will literally kill your staff you've spent hours building when a virus breaks out. You can attempt to identify the cause, and treat it. But the only way to cure it, is by continuing the story. This is great, because the things you value, you have built, are being hurt. It effects you the player, not just Big Boss the character. This idea really comes to fruition later in the game, when you have to personally execute staff members when another viral outbreak takes place. In a scene opposite of the hospital escape, in the only other linear episode in the whole game. You are now the executioner. It was one of the most intriguing things I've seen a game do in regards to connecting its mechanical world with its narrative world, and just after that mission, the game goes one step further.
Quiet is a very controversial character, I personally find her appearance distracting, and that is the best word I can use to describe it. It doesn't offend me, but it feels as though her sexual titillation is an attempt to make her more likeable. As if they felt her actual character wasn't enough to make her arc have impact. It's a shame, because it means she often gets overlooked. If one ignores her ridiculous appearance, and looks at how she fits into the bigger picture, then it's another example of MGSV's clever combination of narrative and mechanics. You bond with her not through cut scenes, but through gameplay. As a female character she surprisingly has actual agency, she is her own person, and bonds with you. She starts out being difficult to play with, going from the obedient D-dog to an actual person with freewill definitely has some growing pains. But the more you take her on missions, the more you work with her, the more useful she becomes. You become to rely on her, she becomes an asset to you, and then you lose her. Because the story loses her, because Big Boss loses her. Depending on how you play the game, this can be incredibly shocking. She becomes so overpowered mechanically, that taking her away can cause a huge reversion in how you play the game. It'd quite literally be like taking away the Red 9 handgun from Resident Evil 4 if for some reason the narrative dictated it. It'd hurt Leon, and it'd hurt you.
That's the thing that makes The Phantom Pain one of the best games I have ever played. It truly shows off Hideo growing as an excellent creative designer. MGSV is the closest he has came to capturing this idea he has envisioned ever since Metal Gears creation 20+ years ago. MGSV is the first time he has truly let the mechanics and narrative gel together, to let you the player dictate it, and to be imprisoned by it. MGSV is one of the most consistently designed games I have ever seen, everything mechanically is relevant to the narrative, and the narrative is mechanically relevant to the player. Hell, even the ending that everyone likes to take so literally, is tying its mechanical and narrative theme together. You get Big Boss' identity, and Big Boss gets yours. He thanks you the player for always being there, you deny your identity, you aren't you when play this game. You are Punished "Venom" Snake, a phantom of Big Boss. You quite literally live his identity through everything you do mechanically. There's so much beauty in its notion, so many ways that it speaks to you the player.
Everyone gets upset over Venom's limited dialogue, yet if he were too rounded out as a character, than it would hurt the games theme. If we are to be Big Boss mechanically, than our actions can't be ruined by his characterisation narratively. Venom's characterisation is dictated by how we play the game, he has to accommodate our agency, he is our avatar for how we interact with this virtual world. One of the rewards we get for finishing the Phantom Pain is being able to unmask ourselves, to genuinely play as our created avatar. It's our reward for this games design coming to fruition within its conclusion.
The Phantom Pain is probably the most ambitious game I have ever played. We can all get hooked on what was cut, what didn't work, or what was poorly implemented. But in the end, the game is still an incredibly polished, content filled adventure. It stands on its own at all fronts.
I can't express how much this game has impacted my creative thinking. I've manage to take so much from its ambitions, and I haven't even talked about the amazingly directed cut scenes, all in one shot with very few cuts, all to further tie the mechanical and narrative world together. Or the inspiring yet sadly poorly implemented FOB multiplayer end game of ridding the world of nuclear weapons. The game is littered with issues, but when looking at everything it did manage to accomplish, and respecting its ambitions, the game is a behemoth of creative ideas all directed towards one theme. That of playing as Big Boss in an open ended game of tactical infiltration. An idea Hideo has been trying to master since the franchises foundation.
So how does MGSV handle this? Quite damn exceptionally. MGSV starts with a pilot episode, Ground Zeroes. This pilot is the bridge between Peace Walker and The Phantom Pain. The conclusion for one, and a beginning for another. The Phantom Pain is at a stark contrast to what came before. It's filled with miserably serious characters, and very light on humour compared to Peace Walker. I often felt longing for the times of Peace Walker, how fun and witty it was. I missed it. But now I was in MGSV, a direct sequel, yet very different game.
The Phantom Pain opens with a very drawn out experience. You wake up from your 9 year coma, and are now bed ridden. It takes a whole hour before you escape the hospital. It's a very memorable experience, and it's also a goodbye. A goodbye to the previous Metal Gear games. They were highly scripted, and of course linear. The hospital is the perfect analogy of what came before. When you escape, and enter Afghanistan for the first time, it's supposed to be overwhelming, Ground Zeroes attempted to ready you for the experience, but it still didn't anticipate you for the complete freedom that this new world opens for you. After rescuing Kaz, you are now introduced to the real game. The story knows this. It lets you, the player, the Big Boss, play at your own pace. You're free to experiment with the side ops, explore the world, dabble in all of the games content, and the story doesn't intrude. No early story mission has a cliff hanger, or something to entice you to play more. It merely grooves at your beat, and continues when you want it to. Every early episode is self-contained, they all end with a credits sequence. You don't feel guilty for letting the story hang while you build your motherbase, because it doesn't. It accounts for your agency.
Now the brilliant thing about this is when the story does take centre, it forces you the player to pay attention to it. The Phantom Pain isn't afraid to hurt your gameplay, it will literally kill your staff you've spent hours building when a virus breaks out. You can attempt to identify the cause, and treat it. But the only way to cure it, is by continuing the story. This is great, because the things you value, you have built, are being hurt. It effects you the player, not just Big Boss the character. This idea really comes to fruition later in the game, when you have to personally execute staff members when another viral outbreak takes place. In a scene opposite of the hospital escape, in the only other linear episode in the whole game. You are now the executioner. It was one of the most intriguing things I've seen a game do in regards to connecting its mechanical world with its narrative world, and just after that mission, the game goes one step further.
Quiet is a very controversial character, I personally find her appearance distracting, and that is the best word I can use to describe it. It doesn't offend me, but it feels as though her sexual titillation is an attempt to make her more likeable. As if they felt her actual character wasn't enough to make her arc have impact. It's a shame, because it means she often gets overlooked. If one ignores her ridiculous appearance, and looks at how she fits into the bigger picture, then it's another example of MGSV's clever combination of narrative and mechanics. You bond with her not through cut scenes, but through gameplay. As a female character she surprisingly has actual agency, she is her own person, and bonds with you. She starts out being difficult to play with, going from the obedient D-dog to an actual person with freewill definitely has some growing pains. But the more you take her on missions, the more you work with her, the more useful she becomes. You become to rely on her, she becomes an asset to you, and then you lose her. Because the story loses her, because Big Boss loses her. Depending on how you play the game, this can be incredibly shocking. She becomes so overpowered mechanically, that taking her away can cause a huge reversion in how you play the game. It'd quite literally be like taking away the Red 9 handgun from Resident Evil 4 if for some reason the narrative dictated it. It'd hurt Leon, and it'd hurt you.
That's the thing that makes The Phantom Pain one of the best games I have ever played. It truly shows off Hideo growing as an excellent creative designer. MGSV is the closest he has came to capturing this idea he has envisioned ever since Metal Gears creation 20+ years ago. MGSV is the first time he has truly let the mechanics and narrative gel together, to let you the player dictate it, and to be imprisoned by it. MGSV is one of the most consistently designed games I have ever seen, everything mechanically is relevant to the narrative, and the narrative is mechanically relevant to the player. Hell, even the ending that everyone likes to take so literally, is tying its mechanical and narrative theme together. You get Big Boss' identity, and Big Boss gets yours. He thanks you the player for always being there, you deny your identity, you aren't you when play this game. You are Punished "Venom" Snake, a phantom of Big Boss. You quite literally live his identity through everything you do mechanically. There's so much beauty in its notion, so many ways that it speaks to you the player.
Everyone gets upset over Venom's limited dialogue, yet if he were too rounded out as a character, than it would hurt the games theme. If we are to be Big Boss mechanically, than our actions can't be ruined by his characterisation narratively. Venom's characterisation is dictated by how we play the game, he has to accommodate our agency, he is our avatar for how we interact with this virtual world. One of the rewards we get for finishing the Phantom Pain is being able to unmask ourselves, to genuinely play as our created avatar. It's our reward for this games design coming to fruition within its conclusion.
The Phantom Pain is probably the most ambitious game I have ever played. We can all get hooked on what was cut, what didn't work, or what was poorly implemented. But in the end, the game is still an incredibly polished, content filled adventure. It stands on its own at all fronts.
I can't express how much this game has impacted my creative thinking. I've manage to take so much from its ambitions, and I haven't even talked about the amazingly directed cut scenes, all in one shot with very few cuts, all to further tie the mechanical and narrative world together. Or the inspiring yet sadly poorly implemented FOB multiplayer end game of ridding the world of nuclear weapons. The game is littered with issues, but when looking at everything it did manage to accomplish, and respecting its ambitions, the game is a behemoth of creative ideas all directed towards one theme. That of playing as Big Boss in an open ended game of tactical infiltration. An idea Hideo has been trying to master since the franchises foundation.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Au contraire. It happened over 3 to 4 games.
In MGS3, we see BB become disillusioned with the government and how it treats its soldiers.
In PW, we see BB build an army primarily by kidnapping and brainwashing soldiers on the battlefield (this started in PO really), employ his first two child soldiers, use a nuke as a deterrent and build his first Metal Gear. We also see him become disillusioned with The Boss' Will and embrace the perception of himself and his crew as criminals by the world's governments.
In GZ and TPP we see how brutal, pragmatic and duplicitous he can be. He thinks he's at Omega Base to kill Paz, he uses a hospital full of patients as a human shield without batting his single eyelid, and allows his very best soldier to act as a decoy with a target on his back as he schemes in the background, just like those he became disillusioned by did to The Boss in MGS3. This is the final nail in the coffin of Naked Snake and his full transformation into the Big Boss we know from MG/MG2.
Your whole post is spot on. It's no coincidence that this is the first game in the series to give so much agency to the player and for Big Boss to reveal that the main 'forgotten soldier' of the series (along with Skullface, Quiet and Venom) is actually
the player
Rotch Crot
Banned
I'd kill for MGS 1-5 on ps4, x1
Raven117
Member
This a million times.
While fans of the series can complain about the story and all (valid complaints), for someone who has a casual interest in MGS, the gameplay was a realization of everything MGS had been trying to accomplish since the 80's.
Its so good....
Rotch Crot
Banned
I had the virus portion of the game ruined for me.
I just kept plugging away at the story and it all solved itself. I never messed with trying to isolate sick people and all that.
I just kept plugging away at the story and it all solved itself. I never messed with trying to isolate sick people and all that.
Wind's Howling
Member
I still need to continue this game after having bought it Day 1. Never even completed it. There was something about it that just feels... off.
It didn't quite feel like MGS because the story made a huge drop towards the background and that is not something these series is known for.
I absolutely loved the gameplay side of things, though. It felt fluid and fun. Did the game changed in some drastic way with some of the patches? I know the online mode got added.
It didn't quite feel like MGS because the story made a huge drop towards the background and that is not something these series is known for.
I absolutely loved the gameplay side of things, though. It felt fluid and fun. Did the game changed in some drastic way with some of the patches? I know the online mode got added.
I'd also bring up his initial recruitment of Chico. Up till then I kind of saw Big Boss as a more charismatic Snake, morally. But I think it's when he tells Chico to give his life for BB to serve a cause that I realized this guy had shifted priorities and was now more concerned with ideals than people. That's not to say, obviously, that he doesn't care about people, but that his obsession with The Boss's legacy had transformed the manner in which he views them.
Crazy Diamond
Member
The focus of the game shifts drastically for those who plan on playing beyond the missions themselves in no small thanks to the patches applied. FOB and online resources are a pretty big part of post-game, for example, probably for the sake of the Disarmament event. It's not something you necessarily have to focus on, of course, but doing so opens up for more resources and more opportunities for base expansion, weapon/item development, and gameplay events such as invasions and the preset FOB Events, which award players new items (weapons, camp, base colors, emblems) as well as online resources (which allow for the development of items such as my personal favorite, Ocelot's personal Revolver) for completing these events and the mission tasks within. The patches applied after release are great, if you're into that aspect of the game.