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[Zathalus]

Microsoft and Nvidia have been hand-in-glove partners since 3dfx was foreclosed two decades ago by Nvidia with help from massive loans from Microsoft killing the number 1 Windows gaming API (glide) overnight, and through Microsoft locking Opengl to version 1.1(1.4 now) on Windows, unless using extensions from 1.1, they made DirectX the default graphics API for games on Windows, taking it from third to first courtesy of Nvidia being the developer and partner. So I'd argue it has been obvious for decades - along with Nvidia's treatment of Drivers on linux - that both Nvidia and Microsoft share a vision of Nvidia DirectX and Microsoft Windows as the defacto OS for all of Cloud, even beyond gaming, and Nvidia as the monopoly supplier of the graphics cards for the serving..

Nvidia supposedly being the independent pushback of current ATVI just wouldn't ever happen, and would have the ability to work with Microsoft to work around the monitoring, just like whipping boy Ubisoft represents none of the operational independence that a current ATVI exercises in the market.

Just consider that Nvidia's technical, cadence and price issues with Cloud game serving on Windows Server licenses should mirror those the CMA listed of Stadia, and yet Nvidia as DirectX API developer for Windows probably pay nothing like the same for Windows licenses, and can fix any issues they have immediately because they are on the inside of the deal with Microsoft.

Nvidia don't even do native driver support for opengl and vulkan in Windows AFAIK and just do a reverse-proton on their DirectX solution, causing throttled performance for Opengl and Vulkan on Windows compared to linux, and you only need see Nvidia's attitude to linux drivers over the years to be concerned if they are the authority to advocate for CoD on linux using vulkan for the whole cloud gaming market. That's basically everyone, except for hand-in-glove Microsoft and Nvidia

OpenGL isn't locked down on Windows. Rather Windows ships with the basic 1.1 support (in a DX3D wrapper) and the latest version of OpenGl installs via your GPU driver. My PC has the latest version of 4.6 on it. Doom 2016 uses OpenGl 4.5.

For Nvidia and AMD there is little to no performance difference between Windows and Linux native games running on the same API, as has been benchmarked extensively. It's a few percentage point either way. Just check Phoronix.

 

[freefornow]

 

[drganon]

 

[PaintTinJr]

OpenGL isn't locked down on Windows. Rather Windows ships with the basic 1.1 support (in a DX3D wrapper) and the latest version of OpenGl installs via your GPU driver. My PC has the latest version of 4.6 on it. Doom 2016 uses OpenGl 4.5.

For Nvidia and AMD there is little to no performance difference between Windows and Linux native games running on the same API, as has been benchmarked extensively. It's a few percentage point either way. Just check Phoronix.

No, the highly optimised and advanced Ubershader's solution for Dolphin shows Nvidia's Opengl/Vulkan to DirectX wrapper was eating over half the performance, most likely by throttling to promote DirectX which both Nvidia and Microsoft have an obvious conflict of interest to promote over Vulkan and OpenGL.

As for the Windows situation with Opengl/Vulkan how does that experience compare to every other Non-windows OS? On Windows, using VisualStudio template graphics projects they all exclusively provide DirectX and modern versions of it with turn key setup. Compare and contrast setting up the latest Vulkan or OpenGL to use in a Unity, or Unreal VisualStudio project on Windows and then tell me that isn't anti-competitive to drive everyone to use DirectX on Windows? Which means any on going gaming IPs captured by Microsoft (like CoD) then automatically get washed in those same APIs as the standard supported version, with a after thought fork of the original put on life support like Minecraft Java edition.

The only reason Opengl is locked at 1.1 on Windows by default is because of a successfully executed EEE strategy by Microsoft on SGI's OpenGL back in 1998 forcing all new feature access through a very convoluted extension enumeration, when the purpose of the deal SGI was lead to believe was for OpenGL to be where DirectX is on Windows.

And the reason all other graphics APIs operates as 2nd tier on Windows through a throttling wrapper is because of Microsoft's and Nvidia's anti competitive strategy with DirectX with the launch of Windows Vista and the OG Xbox.

For 15years CPUs have been strong enough to run a fallback open source Mesa3D software library version like linux, to functionally provide the latest OpenGL/Vulkan bindings easily for developers, and yet Microsoft intentionally don't provide that, even though it would provide better compatibility for historical software because with Microsoft and Nvidia all intended roads lead back to Windows via the proprietary DirectX.

 

[Thirty7ven]

What a shock.

 

[ReBurn]

No, the highly optimised and advanced Ubershader's solution for Dolphin shows Nvidia's Opengl/Vulkan to DirectX wrapper was eating over half the performance, most likely by throttling to promote DirectX which both Nvidia and Microsoft have an obvious conflict of interest to promote over Vulkan and OpenGL.

As for the Windows situation with Opengl/Vulkan how does that experience compare to every other Non-windows OS? On Windows, using VisualStudio template graphics projects they all exclusively provide DirectX and modern versions of it with turn key setup. Compare and contrast setting up the latest Vulkan or OpenGL to use in a Unity, or Unreal VisualStudio project on Windows and then tell me that isn't anti-competitive to drive everyone to use DirectX on Windows? Which means any on going gaming IPs captured by Microsoft (like CoD) then automatically get washed in those same APIs as the standard supported version, with a after thought fork of the original put on life support like Minecraft Java edition.

The only reason Opengl is locked at 1.1 on Windows by default is because of a successfully executed EEE strategy by Microsoft on SGI's OpenGL back in 1998 forcing all new feature access through a very convoluted extension enumeration, when the purpose of the deal SGI was lead to believe was for OpenGL to be where DirectX is on Windows.

And the reason all other graphics APIs operates as 2nd tier on Windows through a throttling wrapper is because of Microsoft's and Nvidia's anti competitive strategy with DirectX with the launch of Windows Vista and the OG Xbox.

For 15years CPUs have been strong enough to run a fallback open source Mesa3D software library version like linux, to functionally provide the latest OpenGL/Vulkan bindings easily for developers, and yet Microsoft intentionally don't provide that, even though it would provide better compatibility for historical software because with Microsoft and Nvidia all intended roads lead back to Windows via the proprietary DirectX.

How is that important? Windows at the core includes OpenGL 1.1 for several reasons, but Windows does not prevent installation or execution of later versions. It's in Direct 3D, but it's also used in basic graphics support for virtual machines running under HyperV and to provide some basic video functions so you can see your screen when Windows is using basic graphics hardware. Not being able to update the version Windows uses for its own purposes does not mean OpenGL is locked to version 1.1 on Windows. That's a wholly disingenuous assertion framed to support your point.

You're making it sound like it was an anticompetitive move by Microsoft to build their own graphics API for Windows. I don't understand this. It was more a necessity to keep up with evolution of graphics technology. It wouldn't be smart to continue to build any product with a direct dependency on a project like OpenGL. Especially OpenGL, which has been trailing technology evolution for decades. OpenGL was holding things back because it couldn't react quickly enough to change.

A lot of performance bottlenecks with OpenGL are directly due to failure to evolve, like holding on to old paradigms nobody uses any more and not working well in multithreaded scenarios. In trying to support backward compatibility OpenGL sacrifices future capability. It's a driver for why Vulkan emerged and why Apple dropped OpenGL support from MacOS.

Dolphin may not a good example to use, either. That team made their own decisions when it comes to cross-platform support and compatibility. So it's their responsibility resolve performance issues that arise from those choices, not the platforms they want to run on. If performance is wasted on Windows it's fair to question their implementation instead of jumping to a 1998 conspiracy theory.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Watch Lulu become the Secretary of some department one day. Maybe she'll be the FTC commissioner herself! Revolving door, and all that.

 

[Zathalus]

No, the highly optimised and advanced Ubershader's solution for Dolphin shows Nvidia's Opengl/Vulkan to DirectX wrapper was eating over half the performance, most likely by throttling to promote DirectX which both Nvidia and Microsoft have an obvious conflict of interest to promote over Vulkan and OpenGL.

As for the Windows situation with Opengl/Vulkan how does that experience compare to every other Non-windows OS? On Windows, using VisualStudio template graphics projects they all exclusively provide DirectX and modern versions of it with turn key setup. Compare and contrast setting up the latest Vulkan or OpenGL to use in a Unity, or Unreal VisualStudio project on Windows and then tell me that isn't anti-competitive to drive everyone to use DirectX on Windows? Which means any on going gaming IPs captured by Microsoft (like CoD) then automatically get washed in those same APIs as the standard supported version, with a after thought fork of the original put on life support like Minecraft Java edition.

The only reason Opengl is locked at 1.1 on Windows by default is because of a successfully executed EEE strategy by Microsoft on SGI's OpenGL back in 1998 forcing all new feature access through a very convoluted extension enumeration, when the purpose of the deal SGI was lead to believe was for OpenGL to be where DirectX is on Windows.

And the reason all other graphics APIs operates as 2nd tier on Windows through a throttling wrapper is because of Microsoft's and Nvidia's anti competitive strategy with DirectX with the launch of Windows Vista and the OG Xbox.

For 15years CPUs have been strong enough to run a fallback open source Mesa3D software library version like linux, to functionally provide the latest OpenGL/Vulkan bindings easily for developers, and yet Microsoft intentionally don't provide that, even though it would provide better compatibility for historical software because with Microsoft and Nvidia all intended roads lead back to Windows via the proprietary DirectX.

Not sure what to say, Linux vs Windows Vulkan performance is very well benchmarked and neither Nvidia nor AMD offer any meaningful difference on one platform vs the other (well mostly, Windows has a few games that simply perform way better, even using Vulkan). No need to dip into conspiracy theories when you have factual data to prove the point.

Any sort of throttling wrapper can easily be tested by running a Vulkan game on Linux and getting a large performance boost, but it doesn't happen.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[analog_future]

 

[HoofHearted]

 

[Topher]

The FTC will save us.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Negotiator101]

Finally!

 

[splattered]

Can't wait for this to finally be over ahhhhh

 

[Topher]

Can't wait for this to finally be over ahhhhh

 

[Topher]

 

[havoc00]

Almost there Xbros let’s stay strong, the celebration will be worth it after all this time. When this closes how will you be celebrating what ya gonna eat drink etc ?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I don't see how they can claim it's short lived when the long term secular trend shows that exclusives have gradually shifted favor to Playstation.

There's a transient spike that's short lived, but the longer term trend is pretty clear.

 

[DavJay]

So is this deal likely or not? It’s dragging too long

 

[Topher]

So is this deal likely or not? It’s dragging too long

More than likely. Just waiting on CMA to finalize their approval.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Can't wait for this to finally be over ahhhhh

You mean until the acquisition of EA saga begins

EA ditching FIFA was just the first step in the Master Plan, they'll dump the NFL next and then MS will be free to acquire EA and take all sports franchises exclusive to Xbox

 

[splattered]

You mean until the acquisition of EA saga begins

EA ditching FIFA was just the first step in the Master Plan, they'll dump the NFL next and then MS will be free to acquire EA and take all sports franchises exclusive to Xbox

I'm totally blaming you if that actually happens...

 

[Ozriel]

You mean until the acquisition of EA saga begins

EA ditching FIFA was just the first step in the Master Plan, they'll dump the NFL next and then MS will be free to acquire EA and take all sports franchises exclusive to Xbox

Posts like this don’t really make any sense after seeing how this acquisition played out, how regulators responded to the possibility of keeping a mega franchise exclusive and how internal Microsoft documents discussed rationale for acquisition targets.

We all know why EA ditched FIFA, anyway.

 

[The Pleasure]

Almost there Xbros let’s stay strong, the celebration will be worth it after all this time. When this closes how will you be celebrating what ya gonna eat drink etc ?

I thought tradition dictated that they put lube on their disc slot and give the Sexbox the ceremonial Halo Infinite. Hype for a second, but ends in disappointment.

 

[//DEVIL//]

I don't think MS will buy a publisher after this ( assuming it goes through)

The biggest they will go after that is Projektred / cyberpunk devs in terms of size.

Just to avoid all this regular drama and they really don't need to anymore. With Activision they are the biggest gaming company and Sony's biggest partner whatever they like it or not.

 

[Negotiator101]

Almost there Xbros let’s stay strong, the celebration will be worth it after all this time. When this closes how will you be celebrating what ya gonna eat drink etc ?

I'm wondering when we'll get all the new games on Gamepass? That's all I'm interested in.

 

[Negotiator101]

I don't think MS will buy a publisher after this ( assuming it goes through)

The biggest they will go after that is Projektred / cyberpunk devs in terms of size.

Just to avoid all this regular drama and they really don't need to anymore. With Activision they are the biggest gaming company and Sony's biggest partner whatever they like it or not.

assuming it will go through? you do know that's its a dead cert now right? Deal is done for all intents and purposes.

 

[//DEVIL//]

assuming it will go through? you do know that's its a dead cert now right? Deal is done for all intents and purposes.

I haveagood feeling that's the case too. But CMA before gave the impression there is no monopoly and harm just to deny it over stupid cloud that doesn't exist or barely does.

So who knows what kind of shitty excuse they might use this time.

 

[Negotiator101]

I haveagood feeling that's the case too. But CMA before gave the impression there is monopoly and harm just to deny it over stupid cloud that doesn't exist or barely does.

So who knows what kind of shitty excuse they might use this time.

Literally just ironing out a few minor issues but overall the CMA'S concerns have been satisfied.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Literally just ironing out a few minor issues but overall the CMA'S concerns have been satisfied.

Have you got a link to a CMA comment to that affect?

I don't doubt that they have completely thrown in the towel, after seeing the official Ex-cloud page pull the email address to give further feedback, and looking very suspect. But on second thoughts it was that they only want feedback from existing concerned parties, so anyone that was sat back contented that the deal was being blocked and only wanted to give feedback if and when a change of position happened, like it did just weeks ago for the first time in 2 years, well...they've been intentionally excluded from the process, going by the CMA webpage, so expecting them to wait for actual feedback to the deadline, and then the couple of weeks of due process doesn't look like it is happening.

Let's face it, a deal being blocked for two years, then just sort of does enough to get approval on balance, with major reservations still held by the CMA, then getting swept through for approval hardly looks consistent with the robustness of the start of this process IMO, and looks like Microsoft strong armed weak politicians damaging the credibility of the process, because I find it very hard to believe that the French competition department are dawn raiding Nvidia, and yet the CMA can't clearly see the threat to all of Cloud, never mind cloud gaming via this merger, coming from the close relation between $3Trillion Microsoft and $1T Nvidia that have had their stocks' fortunes trend with each other fairly similar in quarterly terms since the OG Xbox deal, when 3dfx died.

Just imagine if Nvidia offers to buy EA next week.

 

[Jemm]

raiding Nvidia, and yet the CMA can't clearly see the threat to all of Cloud, never mind cloud gaming via this merger, coming from the close relation between $3Trillion Microsoft and $1T Nvidia that have had their stocks' fortunes trend with each other fairly similar in quarterly terms since the OG Xbox deal, when 3dfx died.

I doubt that Xbox/gaming/DirectX has affected Microsoft's stock price at all (or positively, at least).

When Satya Nadella started as a CEO in 2014, MSFT was at $36.35. That's after Xbox One.
Since then, the stock has risen to current levels ($321.80), but hardly due to gaming related reasons.

 

[PaintTinJr]

I doubt that Xbox/gaming/DirectX has affected Microsoft's stock price at all (or positively, at least).

When Satya Nadella started as a CEO in 2014, MSFT was at $36.35. That's after Xbox One.
Since then, the stock has risen to current levels ($321.80), but hardly due to gaming related reasons.

You are trying to misconstrue the wording I used by talking about actual stock prices, and unless you are saying that Microsoft don't hold a 95% OS monopoly over PC gaming then your assertion that their fortunes are out with gaming indirectly is equally false, as you can be sure if they lost 50% of that OS market share and so had Nvidia, neither company would have seen the trends in stock fortunes that they 've had.

 

[TheRedRiders]

CMA launches market investigation into cloud services

Following Ofcom’s referral, the CMA is launching a market investigation into the supply of public cloud infrastructure services in the UK.

www.gov.uk

 

[Varteras]

CMA launches market investigation into cloud services

Following Ofcom’s referral, the CMA is launching a market investigation into the supply of public cloud infrastructure services in the UK.

www.gov.uk

 

[GHG]

CMA launches market investigation into cloud services

Following Ofcom’s referral, the CMA is launching a market investigation into the supply of public cloud infrastructure services in the UK.

www.gov.uk

On the face of it this appears to have nothing to do with the activision blizzard deal.

 

[Godot25]

Who would have thought in January that we would have to wait until October 2024 for this deal to close.

Pretty crazy.

But it looks like next week will be The Week.

 

[bitbydeath]

On the face of it this appears to have nothing to do with the activision blizzard deal.

Can't tell because CMA were asking for feedback which closes out tomorrow...

New Microsoft/Activision deal addresses previous CMA concerns in cloud gaming

The sale of Activision’s cloud gaming rights to Ubisoft substantially addresses previous concerns and opens the door to the deal being cleared, the CMA said today.

www.gov.uk

This could fall in line with received feedback, but it's not clear yet.

 

[Negotiator101]

On the face of it this appears to have nothing to do with the activision blizzard deal.

Exactly.

 

[bitbydeath]

Oof, it is targeting Microsoft (and Amazon) specifically.

UK regulator to push for probe into Amazon, Microsoft cloud dominance

British media regulator Ofcom will this week push for an antitrust investigation into Amazon and Microsoft's dominance of the UK's cloud computing market, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

www.reuters.com

 

[Godot25]

Oof, it is targeting Microsoft (and Amazon) specifically.

UK regulator to push for probe into Amazon, Microsoft cloud dominance

British media regulator Ofcom will this week push for an antitrust investigation into Amazon and Microsoft's dominance of the UK's cloud computing market, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

www.reuters.com

And it has...
...jackshit to do with cloud gaming. Especially considering that Microsoft is selling ABK streaming rights to Ubisoft.

But okay. We can pretend for another week that deal is in jeopardy despite the fact that ABK shares are selling at almost 94$ per share

 

[GHG]

Oof, it is targeting Microsoft (and Amazon) specifically.

UK regulator to push for probe into Amazon, Microsoft cloud dominance

British media regulator Ofcom will this week push for an antitrust investigation into Amazon and Microsoft's dominance of the UK's cloud computing market, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

www.reuters.com

Playing devil's advocate, I think they will be letting that Activision deal go, while deciding that this is the area they will now investigate them on.

 

[bitbydeath]

And it has...
...jackshit to do with cloud gaming. Especially considering that Microsoft is selling ABK streaming rights to Ubisoft.

But okay. We can pretend for another week that deal is in jeopardy despite the fact that ABK shares are selling at almost 94$ per share

You know the price of shares don't mean anything right?

 

[bitbydeath]

Playing devil's advocate, I think they will be letting that Activision deal go, while deciding that this is the area they will now investigate them on.

Guess we'll find out soon.

 

[Godot25]

You know the price of shares don't mean anything right?

Yes. They represent "faith" of stock market that deal will close. So the closer stock price is to price that Microsoft offered for one ABK share (95$), the higher the chance of deal to be completed is.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yes. They represent "faith" of stock market that deal will close. So the closer stock price is to price that Microsoft offered for one ABK share (95$), the higher the chance of deal to be completed is.

Yes, but those invested know nothing.

 

[Godot25]

Yes, but those invested know nothing.

Of course shareholders don't have inside info because share price fluctuations happened as a reaction of what happened.

But share price is directly tied to probability of deal going through according to stock market. Which is what I said.

And almost 94$ per share price on stock market means that shareholders believe that there is almost non-existential chance of this deal not going through currently.

 

[GHG]

Yes, but those invested know nothing.

The hedge funds that are still invested are only adding to their positions right now.

Current trade on the stock is predominantly algo driven with anything under $93.5 getting scooped up as soon as it becomes available.

 

[bitbydeath]

Of course shareholders don't have inside info because share price fluctuations happened as a reaction of what happened.

But share price is directly tied to probability of deal going through according to stock market. Which is what I said.

And almost 94$ per share price on stock market means that shareholders believe that there is almost non-existential chance of this deal not going through currently.

Yes, but it holds no basis in the outcome, it’s all faith driven.

 

[Negotiator101]

You know the price of shares don't mean anything right?

Mate this new separate cloud investigation has no bearing on the Activision deal. Let's start using common sense and not take every little bit of news as being related to this deal.