Sounds like they did a shit job then.
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Microsoft mismanagement ofthird party partnerships leaving developers in a bad state?
- Thread starter nynt9
- Start date
Sounds like they did a shit job then.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
So you've been holding back then? Good god.
What power do small, relatively unknown developers have when negotiating with major publishers? It could simply be that they didn't have the clout to get a better contract, even if they wanted it. If MS said no to a better deal, the dev would be out an entire game deal, while MS could just move on to find a new developer. A large dev like Activision or Ubisoft can negotiate terms like that, but not small unknowns.
Astral Dog
Member
Why they would even want to work with Kamiya after this
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
This is well known...
Do not forget about Gigantic as well.
Do not forget about Gigantic as well.
Neuromancer
Member
I guess someone at MS finally realized that Phantom Dust and Scalebound were only going to sell about 10,000 copies each. It's too bad they couldn't figure that out a little earlier in the process.
Tallshortman
Member
Seeing as Platinum has been pumping out games at a high rate, it certainly lends some leeway to the rumors/heresay.. Not all their games are great but the games they get the budget and time to work on seem to all be good and on time.
I don't know what you're trying to say. Are you assuming fanboyism is coming into play here or something?
Since the news of Scalebound's cancellation broke, and several tweets arose from reputable sources suggesting that Microsoft was up to some sketchy stuff here, I've been posting fairly skeptical stuff towards Microsoft in both the Scalebound cancellation thread and this one.
So MS meddled and ruined this game? I don't get where games like Forza Horizon can be one of the most polished 3rd Party games, and that's because of Playground games. Yet when a game gets cancelled, it's Microsoft's missmanagment. This is the almost always the case in GAF debates. Games are good in spite of Microsodf, games are bad/cancelled becuase of Microsoft.
Not really a great comparsion, especially when you got a franchise that's selling like Forza does and is PROVEN compared to a new IP from a studio like Platinum.
Of course MS will gladly pour resources into a sucessful IP like Forza.
We don't exactly know what happened with Scalebound, unless we get more details. However, there are some indicators that MS handled the situation rather shitty and this isn't the first time as you can see with the things in OP.
That doesn't mean MS is completely unable to handle things, there have been plenty of suceess stories and some partnerships turned out rather well, but let's not pretend that everything is fine.
adversarial
Member
Why is this not possible?
Forza is a tried-and-true money maker for Microsoft. Scale is unproven.
ohdearohdear
Banned
it's not just third party, look at what happened to Lionhead, Rare, FASA and Ensemble after microsoft bought them
Yeah, the optics of shutting Rare down would be abysmal, even today, knowing what we know about what's actually left of them.
Yeah, gotta love those venerated NoA veterans, huh?
RichiRamjag
Member
Guy is on my friends list playing on his x1 all the time, so I doubt that's the case. Seemed disappointed about the Scalebound thing for sure though.
Looks like you missed the big news everyone is talking about today.
lol, just check the front page and try not to trip over the 130-page thread on it.
It all went down today.
therealbigrich
Member
Cant see MS changing at this point not that they have been doing anything really crazy. Guess not supporting Xbox and complaining about them on the internet is what a lot of people are stuck with
Yes, hence their unwillingness to ever work with MS again. MS has a long history of this sort of shit. Whether it's mismanagement, or corporate decisions to tank projects to get out of a contract early, they have a history that stretches back throughout their time as a game publisher/hardware maker. That doesn't even touch on how many first party studios, and others, they ran into the ground over the years.
therealbigrich
Member
Thinking about the third party games that have been released recently (FH3, DR4, Recore) it makes me think are these 3rd party games being produced on time and of quality and MS just canceling them for now reason?
How so? By canceling a first party game they were funding? It's a shitty situation but I wouldn't call it mishandling, maybe risk aversion, fiscally conservative, I dunno.
I mean look at the Mighty No 9, who mishandled that situation? Inticreates is a great developer but not this time, Inafune not a creator but he is a business man, Kickstarter backers aren't buying a product it's more like a patronage/donation/gamble.
Listen I'm not an MS apologist, their first party output is meager and I don't think they wanted to cancel this game as this is a huge blow for their 2017 lineup considering how few exclusives they had. As an Xbox one owner the only exclusive game I am stoked about is Cuphead, that's really where they are mismanaging in my opinion because those games are constantly delayed and there aren't enough Super Time Force, Below, Ori, and Inside caliber games.
Granted they need to make big AAA bets but they need to make more small bets too. It sounds like 3rd parties think its easier and like working with Sony so MS need to work extra hard to get them back. That's why this isn't good, it's a viscous cycle that I would have hoped flipped under Spencer's leadership but we're just not seeing the investment in games. That raises serious doubts for me about the Xbox platform and their future.
As far as mismanagement goes maybe it's just Microsoft being Microsoft. I mean thinking about all the initiatives they have going on right now, like UWP and merging Xbox and Windows just reminds me of GFWL and the sad tale of Skulls of the Shogun.
Andronicus
Banned
??? they have been doing just fine for years.
this is sad news though.
the players at MS have changed but they are still having many similar outcomes
Let's not forget that MS had plans to released the original Phantom Dust in the west THEMSELVES after they published it first-party in Japan. Only to pull out at the 11th hour and have Majestco publish it for fans.
MS simply have no clue what the hell they're doing in regards to new IP's and haven't since J. Allard and the original X-box crew left. Hence, FASA closing, MS Flight Sim closing, et. al. closing and losing the little Japan support they had.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
When I read about that, I was baffled. That alone made me distrust Microsoft as a game publisher.
No they didn't. Microsoft also still has a stake in Bungie and has the right of first refusal in regards to publishing any new Bungie IP.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
Yup. People need to eat.
Poison pills in publisher contracts are standard. Unfortunately pubs also intentionally market and get gamers to blame the dev.
The funny thing is people that run sites like Steamspy think they're helping when they're giving the big publishers even MORE leverage over developers. Because publishers will always obfuscate or straight up never share numbers, while if you're a small dev all your numbers are supplied to the publisher under the guise of whatever purpose sites like SS think they're filling, which is none.
Hockeymac18
Member
NegativeCero
Banned
I wasn't aware of the details surrounding those other games' cancellations. It's crazy to me that a company could be as unprofessional as those stories seem to suggest. I would expect better from them.
foolishoptimist
Member
Not saying this isn't crappy behavior, but this is not strange for a developer/publisher relationship.
Developers are typically absolutely beholden to their publisher, to the point where saying no and risking the deal in place, is like deciding to close your company. So you suck it up and do your best to keep going. Ideally, the request from the publisher isn't as ridiculous as "add SP to an MP game for the same budget".
It comes down to the person(s) that you're dealing with for how smoothly your project will go. Hopefully, MS is cancelling their managements employment in cases like Phantom Dust.
Developers are typically absolutely beholden to their publisher, to the point where saying no and risking the deal in place, is like deciding to close your company. So you suck it up and do your best to keep going. Ideally, the request from the publisher isn't as ridiculous as "add SP to an MP game for the same budget".
It comes down to the person(s) that you're dealing with for how smoothly your project will go. Hopefully, MS is cancelling their managements employment in cases like Phantom Dust.
Omega Kirby
Member
Was it True Fantasy Live Online?
If all this is true, especially with Platinum...MS is dangerously close to following in the footsteps of Nintendo and 3rd party relations.
It would be amazing if Nintendo does good with 3rd party relations with the Switch and MS starts to become Nintendo.
It would be amazing if Nintendo does good with 3rd party relations with the Switch and MS starts to become Nintendo.
intheinbetween
Member
not the same situation, not even in the same league. IIRC 5 and Atlus took advantage of MS in the early OG XBOX days, they took the money and run.
Christ these kind of threads, we don't know anything for real besides the cancellation of Scalebound, we don't know the reasons, I don't think it's fair to blame MS for whatever happened with this without having factual pieces of information.
As other gaffers have already stated, unfortunately some games we get cancelled, some get cancelled during the early stages of development, others close to the final stages, and some others get resurrected (Rime), it's part of the industry.
What really upsets me is the way some people take this as something only MS do, and to some exent, some even take it like a personal attack, while they know nothing, but their bias leads them to pull the trigger so easily.
After this debacle, it's obvious MS should focus in their 3rd party relationship, they have to streghten them, this situation isn't good for any company.
http://kotaku.com/microsoft-is-late-on-paying-xbox-indie-developers-agai-1666323327
I understand what you're getting at, but at a certain point, you're going to stop making excuses for them and notice a pattern in how they treat developers.
This isn't an Xbox problem; it's a Microsoft problem. Microsoft is a company with a well-documented history of mistreating partners and developers. There is not a single company that hasn't made a mistake in a partnership or in an external relationship. However, when your company is the King Kong of anti-competition and strategic destruction of others, it becomes evident that doing business together is a special risk. The bad kind of special.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
While I'd normally agree, in THIS particular case, it's hard to argue that this isn't pretty much all on Microsoft.
If Platinum's reputation was similar to Kojima's I could understand and even most of GAF would be iffy on who to blame were he involved. But Platinum is literally THE studio the big publishers go to to pump out a decent quality action game in a hurry and within a shoestring budget. More often than not, 2 + 2 generally equals 4.