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Microsoft: "We purposefully did not target the highest end graphics"
- Thread starter GC|Simon
- Start date
Bf4 was running on pc and so was dead rising 3. As to quantum break, I'll believe it when it's released. Not saying that it's not possible but there is a huge difference between in engine and on hardware. Btw, power is an additive. It's makes the purchase even more compelling when the most powerful hardware is also the cheaper hardware.
Dead Rising 3 wasn't that good looking and it barely maintained 15fps. Do you really think that's indicative of a game running on a card twice as powerful as an Xbone? A card twice as powerful as an Xbone is more powerful than a PS4—do you think Dead Rising looked better than all the PS4 games at the show? Ditto for BF4.
I agree that more powerful for less money is compelling, though. Especially since, if this gen is to be a repeat of last gen, the lion's share of the best games are going to be multiplatforms. But the price alone would be almost as compelling even if the PS4 and Xbone had identical hardware.
But isn't that the whole point? the PS4 games just need optomising like DR3 does. Also people bang on about F5 looking amazing, but wasn't it limited tracks and cars? So a dev could concentrate on spit and polishing a small sample - you can imagine how much MS threw into making sure they demo'd well or it would have been game over by now.
Well, I will say that the only confirmation I needed for the specs was when Microsoft came out and said, we purposely did not target the highest graphics. What a nonsensical statement. Imagine if you had a child and you were paying for his education. How would you feel if the child says, "I didn't target the highest grades on purpose"?
In the article itself the guy said MS clarified that notebook was playing videos and digitalfoundry confirmed it was running on the console. You really believed the game was running on a laptop? and in the same time you say its unimpressive lol
But Dead Rising 3 is ostensibly making use of a card twice as powerful as Xbone, hence also notably more powerful than PS4. Does that seem to be the case to you, given the performance issues and overall visuals of the game?
I don't see how the F5 'argument' (really more like speculation) isn't also applicable to PS4 games, either. And it's not a question of console power, but development time.
Yeah, that's just lunacy. I can't even take that seriously. I believe the leaked specs are what they are, the real deal. But I can't deal with the craziness of some of these theories .
What, you haven't seen games that are running on pc's that are visually not impressive? Well if you'd like me to provide you with a list, I can. My steam account is a testament to that.
Hey I'm not creating the theories, I'm just letting you know about them. The bait and switch is definitely going to happen with BF4. Money back guarantee.
Ok, thanks for the facts. Makes me no difference as I'll be playing on PS4.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Dead Rising 3 is still extremely early and has been written to hardware that was only just finalized very recently. You can't draw any conclusions about the hardware from the DR3 E3 demo, or indeed any E3 demo.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
I still cannot believe for a second that a company would intentionally not target the best graphics available. That is just retarded.
Its like "Yeah guys, we don't need the best hardware! This inferior stuff will do just fine.". PLEASE!
This is all about that lame ass Kinect business. They probably chose weaker hardware so they could pack-in that crap.
Its like "Yeah guys, we don't need the best hardware! This inferior stuff will do just fine.". PLEASE!
This is all about that lame ass Kinect business. They probably chose weaker hardware so they could pack-in that crap.
More like it will end up looking the same on both consoles, and people will claim that "M$" moneyhatted EA to "gimp" the PS4 version.
Gaming Nostalgia
Banned
You are spot on. I believe most launch titles are coded with 4gb of ram in mind. I expect multiplatform games to look and run very similar on both PS4 and XBone with maybe even an edge to XBone games. Once the final dev kits are distributed to developers I think we will see the difference in Sony's console for both 1st party and multiplatform games.
Would you consider PS4 the best graphics available?
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
Agreed dumbest thing ever, sounds like something Id' expect Nintendo to say.
Honestly this is what turned me off of Xbone the most(by far) , I could care aless about used games, always on DRM crap as I buy everything digitally I can anyways.
They could afford to blow Sony away on specs but some fucking marketing dipship and or bean counter thought it wasn't necessary..............these people should be taken out back and shot.
If we don't get similarity from what we saw at E3 on the BF4 gameplay demo, then I'm going straight to PC. No two ways about it.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Ok.
Let us compare the 1GB version of 7850.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2012/11/05/msi-radeon-hd-7850-1gb-review/4
1080p, no AA, Dx11, Ultra
7850: 50 fps
7770: 30 fps
To be honest, I don't think having tons of VRAM will automatically facilitate good performance.
But despite having such a 'weak' GPU, I think the Xbox One has impressed me - Ryse, Forza, and Quantum Break look fantastic, though the latter is simply a cutscene so we will see.
The best graphics per dollar, yes. Obviously you could build a more powerful PC, but certainly not for $400. Maybe not even for $800, though this is probably where you'll be really close either way.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Not that I'm agreeing with you, but perhaps Microsoft is trying to replicate the Wii's success. I don't think it's too out there to say that Kinect 1 was the natural evolution of the WiiMote (i.e. motion controls without a hand-held control), so packing it in the box from day one will bring in the "casual" crowd as well as keeping the "hardcore" crowd happy with a competent gaming machine. The price point is definitely a counter-argument to that, and I do think that they are pricing it way too high for casuals.
Thanks.
Wiisaleschart.bmp
WiiUsaleschart.bmp ;-)
Wii's success has more to do with their unique motion controls at the time of release...
It merely demonstrates that graphics do not have the hallowed position among the buying public that some people imagine that they do, and hence that not targeting the best possible graphics is not 'retarded'.
You might agree that the Xbone's tradeoffs for the lower performance aren't worth it, though.
No, it demonstrated that the people who bought the Wii don´t care about graphics.
Those people are not the same people that usually buy consoles. And that makes this observation completely worthless for future console sales predictions.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Wasn't the wii 250 at launch? The kinect could not have the wii effect at 500 dollar entry price.
All of these are confirmed ? :-(
yes
You're right unfortunately. However, this is an area where the PS4 might show its advantage. As the engines get more clogged with stuff, and as PC engines push forward,both consoles will struggle to keep up, but the Xbox one will struggle noticably more.
It's perhaps a bit of a negative view - that PS4 might not show it's strength through better performance,but more through 'less bad' performance, if that makes sense.
Monumental
Banned
Man the console warriors are having a field day and yet the completely stumble and contradict themselves at every turn.
Xbox One games were running on PCs that are twice as powerful as actual hardware.
Xbox One games were ugly and didn't look as impressive as PS4 games.
Xbox One games are 6 months behind and the PS4 architecture is much simpler.
The reason the PS4 games don't look much improved is because you'll won't see these differences at launch.
PC graphics cards don't translate to specialized console graphics cards.
Let's compare a PC graphics card equivalent for PS4 to a PC graphics card equivalent to Xbox One.
Forza is half baked and not impressive.
Forza was only impressive because it was running on a laptop.
Digital Foundry will sort this out in the end and it'll be amusing to see how much better PS4 games are than Xbox One games.
The article Digital Foundry wrote on Xbox One games being consistenly polished and focusing on 1080p/60FPS while many PS4 games being sub-1080 or 30FPS is too early. We can't judge these games yet.
Lol @ Xbox One developers using PC devkits, sure seems like Xbox One kits aren't finalized.
You can't fully judge PS4 games because the devkits aren't final and are running on only 4GB Ram.
It's like nobody can get their messaging right about how and why they want to attack the Xbox One.
I mean seriously, BOTH system are using non-finalized hardware, and in the case of devs using PC hardware, you'd be a fool to not realize that the devs would obviously be using architecture that mimicked the finalized hardware for each console.
As for direct comparisons, Forza 5 is certainly more polished than DriveClub and certainly more impressive. Killzone looks pretty but Battlefield 4 looked just as impressive on the Xbox One. Infamous looked great but that's not at launch, just like Quantum Break. MGSV looked incredible and that was on Xbox One. Just like Watch Dogs on PS4.
At this point, both systems have incredible games and the games that are struggling still have time to be polished and optimized for final hardware.
Just quit the hyperbolic conjecture using backwards and hypocritical logic. Come launch time, you can have a jolly ol' time with Digital Foundry comparisons.
Xbox One games were running on PCs that are twice as powerful as actual hardware.
Xbox One games were ugly and didn't look as impressive as PS4 games.
Xbox One games are 6 months behind and the PS4 architecture is much simpler.
The reason the PS4 games don't look much improved is because you'll won't see these differences at launch.
PC graphics cards don't translate to specialized console graphics cards.
Let's compare a PC graphics card equivalent for PS4 to a PC graphics card equivalent to Xbox One.
Forza is half baked and not impressive.
Forza was only impressive because it was running on a laptop.
Digital Foundry will sort this out in the end and it'll be amusing to see how much better PS4 games are than Xbox One games.
The article Digital Foundry wrote on Xbox One games being consistenly polished and focusing on 1080p/60FPS while many PS4 games being sub-1080 or 30FPS is too early. We can't judge these games yet.
Lol @ Xbox One developers using PC devkits, sure seems like Xbox One kits aren't finalized.
You can't fully judge PS4 games because the devkits aren't final and are running on only 4GB Ram.
It's like nobody can get their messaging right about how and why they want to attack the Xbox One.
I mean seriously, BOTH system are using non-finalized hardware, and in the case of devs using PC hardware, you'd be a fool to not realize that the devs would obviously be using architecture that mimicked the finalized hardware for each console.
As for direct comparisons, Forza 5 is certainly more polished than DriveClub and certainly more impressive. Killzone looks pretty but Battlefield 4 looked just as impressive on the Xbox One. Infamous looked great but that's not at launch, just like Quantum Break. MGSV looked incredible and that was on Xbox One. Just like Watch Dogs on PS4.
At this point, both systems have incredible games and the games that are struggling still have time to be polished and optimized for final hardware.
Just quit the hyperbolic conjecture using backwards and hypocritical logic. Come launch time, you can have a jolly ol' time with Digital Foundry comparisons.
You have spent far too much time thinking about this. Especially when you only seem to mention instances where it goes in one direction.
I still fing it funny that people claim the power difference wont be noticeable. Yet the same people went out of their way this gen to claim console superiority when a blade of grass was missing from a PS3 version of a game
If Kinect is what is raising the price of admission and changing the focus of the Xbone, they need to start showing why we want it.
I understand their hesitation in their E3 presser. But now its time to start showing the kinect games or applications within controller based games. Skype isn't a killer app for me.
I understand their hesitation in their E3 presser. But now its time to start showing the kinect games or applications within controller based games. Skype isn't a killer app for me.
Proelite
Member
If they wanted Kinect 2.0 motion controls to be heavily integrated into games, they wouldn't have made a traditional controller.
As someone who has been a regular campaigner in console wars on GAF since 2006, dude you don't need to take it personally.
Eeeewww the thought of that.
sonic moob
Banned
Day one profits but what if they sell far less units? Making a profit on each machine won't mean much if it flippity flops.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Although it is difficult to quantify how much of a difference a 'closed box' architecture will make (console GPU vs PC GPU), we can still compare the differences and relative power between these two GPUs. These parts are the closest match based on what we currently know.
Who said anything about heavy integration. All we've really seen at this point is the tech demo'd in completely mechanical way. They haven't showed us a game with it yet, they basically breezed over Kinect Rivals. The tech does look impressive, but there has been nothing really demo'd using it yet.
JonathanPower
Member
What exactly is lacking in the PS4 GPU for not having a good AA? It has 32ROPS and 176Gb/sec., which is plenty of power for implementing AA.
velociraptor
Junior Member
MSAA is extremely expensive, even on powerful GPUs.
SMAA seems like a good technique to me though. It looks as good as MSAA without being so detrimental to performance.
The best your going to get on consoles is FXAA and maybe SMAA. FXAA blurs the image like crazy, and SMAA implementation is still quite new and so far the only engine that does it is Cryengine.
Actual deferred MSAA is very taxing and even brings a GTX 680 into the 30fps range at 1080p.
Can Crusher
Banned
It would've made sense if they hadn't targeted the highest end graphics because they didn't want to be the most expensive option out there.
Of course, but they wanted to bundle Kinnect. Something's gotta give, eh?
Yes because going by what we have seen so far, X1 is clearly about as powerful as a Wii U.
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