Any boy who touches her should be expelled. If we have to separate every person who is "different" in ways they wouldnt like then what exactly are we teaching them?
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Missouri Teenagers Protest a Transgender Students Use of the Girls Bathroom
- Thread starter Dalek
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Any boy who touches her should be expelled. If we have to separate every person who is "different" in ways they wouldnt like then what exactly are we teaching them?
Captainbojanglesiii
Banned
And once again, as stated before, your hypothetical lacks any basis. Transgendered individuals, I'm sure, don't one day say, "You know what, I'm a woman now." It's a thought which remains consistent over some time. And I think it's quite apparent that the girl this article is written about is taking steps/ has taken steps to alter her appearance to conform with what is typical in women. I think you should stop taking everything in this thread so literally. A label without evidence doesn't exist in these cases despite your persostence that it may happen.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
It's a legit question and scenario. The reason you replied like you just did is because there's no answer to it. It's something we as a society don't have an answer too. I'm with you on the girl in the article being allowed to use the girl's rest room but that opens up a pandora's box of scenarios like the one that I described a few times.
captainpat
Member
Wow
and there are people how think bigotry dies out with the younger generation.
and there are people how think bigotry dies out with the younger generation.
Making the genitals of others your business again?
QueenOfThorns
Member
You nailed it!
But really, I'm of the opinion that everyone's fixation and lack of comfortability with others' genders is ridiculous. If a transgendered person wants to use the same bathroom/locker room/whatever as me it in no way affects me personally. It's just... another person.
Fuck it. Just make everything unisex. Anyone can use whatever bathroom and Will Smith's kid can wear a skirt as much as he wants.
QueenOfThorns
Member
It's. It's stupid. So what? Who cares what she looks like? You think transgender women don't already get attacked for how they look?
No no I get this too... I've seen this way to much that I need to comment on this.
--
Transgender Person A (TPA for short) has a discussion with Cisgender Person A (CPA for short) about trans issues. TPA and CPA walk away fine -- CPA has learnt something.
TPA has the same discussion with CPB...
and so on and so on until basically, TPA is fucking sick of being outnumbered by "simple-minded, bigoted, disgusting CPs" who haven't ever been presented with trans issues before.
So when TPA has that discussion with CPX... TPA walks away angry, annoyed, and CPX basically says "know what, fuck it, why are you being such an asshole?"
--
This is basically every transgender thread on GAF. TPA and CPX's reactions are both understandable.
Which is why a fucking school system should be able to educate children on this issue, and not leave it up to TPA to go on camera to protest a policy etc. because CPY and onwards don't have time or care to listen.
CrocMother
Banned
I don't think we should be separating anyone.
Why don't we deal with what is actually happening instead of some hypothetical? I mean that's what the thread is about right?
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Alright let's say the person in my scenario realized she was a girl and identified as such at age 13...the same age as the Missouri teen this thread is about began identifying as a girl. But let's say she didnt' want to conform to traditional 'girl' looks and appearances. Let's say she looked like a dudebro high school football player. All of this is reasonable... For example it's perfectly fine if a 5 year old wants to play with Barbie dolls. Who are we to say no? In the same sense it's fine if someone who identifies as a girl and is therefore a girl wants to dress up like a dudebro and ends up growing up looking like Brock Lesnar. It would be intolerant to say certain appearances should be gender specific correct? Still a girl that should be able to use the girl's rest room and locker room according to the reasoning in this thread. Opens up a Pandora's box doesn't it? I think it's super interesting to think about. This is the way my brain works...a weird logical way of thinking.
Interesting summary there. Applicable to a host of other conversations too.
It kind of becomes an issue when a high school girl starts seeing a penis at school.
I agree. My issue is with her using the locker room for now.
Locker room separation makes sense. Unisex bathrooms would be ok in my opinion.
Is this where we get pictures of Buck Angel and ask if you want him in the bathroom with your daughter just because he has a vagina?
Edit: Fuck it., have a free one.
According to your rules, he is in the girls locker room now. Do you think that will make female students comfortable?
Christopher
Member
They gave them an option to use a bathroom without the necessary drama and they turned it down? Listen I'm big about understanding and being open minded but it's not like the school wasn't trying to be accommodating.
The gender neutral one she was offered to be honest. Not sure why you all act like teenage girls are so safe. Do you not watch Youtube?
the thing is there needs to be boundaries and some kind of legislation passed because, like it or not trans people are a very, tiny small minority of the population of the world, as such we should accommodate them.
Also more education is definitely important. Hell the story said she began to feel like a girl at age 13. to ME that sounds like she decided she wanted to be a girl, in which case, its not society's job to accommodate your lifestyle choice.
Can someone explain to me why it should be different than say, being gay? when people who are gay are born gay, that's them, their person and being and has always been that way.
Just like i've seen trans people speak who say they knew, since they could remember they were in the wrong body. That again, is understandable, but to me, someone deciding, "well i feel like a girl now," shouldn't get those same accommodations.
How would you tell? you wouldn't, but society needs something they can latch onto, and that seems as good of a criteria as any.
My personal thoughts are the bathroom is fine, but a locker room, if it involved nude changing or nude showers is definitely controversial. I'm not a parent, but if I were, I can imagine I might care. I wish we lived in a society that was more open and understanding about sex and sexual identity, but we certainly are not. I'm not sure one person's right to appear naked with the opposite genitals should supersede other student's rights not to have to see it. Nudity is taught as something wrong to children immediately. Maybe some day things like that won't matter, but not today.
But wow at some of the responses in this thread. One person basically called all boys potential rapists (reading between the lines). Just wow.
But wow at some of the responses in this thread. One person basically called all boys potential rapists (reading between the lines). Just wow.
TipsyArchmage
Neo Member
Yeah it's awful but many people don't know any better
Most people around here at least don't actually know any transgender people at all. There's no basis for an understanding to even be built on. It's just a confusing and scary concept to many people and they can't understand it because no one is there to explain it. And when people make mistakes out of ignorance rather than actual hate they get jumped on and attacked for being transphobic. Which leads to them being no less ignorant and now just feeling like this group of people they don't understand hates them as well.
No one wins.
Shamrock7r
Member
I understand the argument "A man will just pretend to identify a girl to get into women's restrooms" in terms of general public areas around town, but I don't think it really applies to a school system, as it would be fairly easy to identify who is legit, and who is trying to do the former. Schools keep a detailed detailed detailed account of every student from Kindergarten and up. I would imagine a child going through transition will already have had documented meetings with counselors, and presumably doctors about their change way before they make the decision to want to fully transition, including from a societal perspective ie. using a certain gendered bathroom/locker.
But what does happen, which is men going into women's toilets and attacking them, does happen anyway. What makes you think someone will have to go through the trouble of identifying as transgender to do something that they would only have to do once before going to prison?
Sure it's a hypothetical but... if you fuck over people's comfortability with life over a hypothetical, low-risk hazard, then why not give everyone a private toilet under lock and key? Chastity belts everywhere, cut off everyone's arms and legs.
Like, why let the general population drive cars, they could hurt kids!
If a high school were sentient I'd think it would be a big issue...yeah.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
"Other" Bathroom isn't good enough. It's specifically there to segregate her from the rest of the girls.
To those saying that you agree with the girls protesting on the basis they saw a penis in a locker room, what is your reservation against this girl using the bathrooms where EVERYONE has a stall?
DontBeThatGuy
Member
...And?
*girl lol.
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
Oh, so it isn't okay for girls to see her naked, but it's okay for boys to do so?
birthday-suit
Banned
People get tired of educating when they hear the same old shit. That's how i feel when people say stupid stuff about black issues.
I understand that I'm always going to be seen as transphobic when it comes to transgender issues, but I'm not going get upset over someone's tone on the internet.
QueenOfThorns
Member
People realize their gender identity in different ways and at different times. THe same applies to sexual attraction. Not every gay person realizes it in their bones when they're 2 years old, some take a lot longer to understand their feelings.
Realizing you're not the gender you were raised as on the onset of puberty is common.
Why is it an issue?
Is this where we get pictures of Buck Angel and ask if you want him in the bathroom with your daughter just because he has a vagina?
Edit: Fuck it., have a free one.
According to your rules, he is in the girls locker room now. Do you think that will make female students comfortable?
I'm not basing my opinion on comfort, but on genitalia. If he has a vagina, then she can use the girls locker room with every other person that has a vagina.
I was with you until the first bolded part.
Some people don't understand that they're different, or why, until puberty, or perhaps even later in life (how many gay/trans 2 year olds do you know). It's not a choice for this girl - it's how she was born, and there 100% needs to be accommodations made for her.
Big about understanding but yet don't understand that this person identifies as a girl and wants to be treated like one? Instead of like a pariah.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Is this where we get pictures of Buck Angel and ask if you want him in the bathroom with your daughter just because he has a vagina?
Edit: Fuck it., have a free one.
According to your rules, he is in the girls locker room now. Do you think that will make female students comfortable?
This is what I'm saying with my Brock Lesnar aka dudebro example except reverse. Let's say that Buck Angel identified as a girl and that has always been the case. Should she be allowed in the girl's locker room and rest room looking like that?
E: wait hold on i think i have it backwards.
Probably is...
Hey man like, you never actually said you think such a person would attack anyone so I'll move away from that...
But could you do the mental gymnastics to compare how it would people uncomfortable for the first time versus what transgender people face everyday?
I don't want to assume you have no sympathy for transgender people, but the fact is that so many are scared to transition because people have these views.
Some people, are just too scared to. Which makes them, every day, feel like they shouldn't be in the body they are in just because they know other people would look at them weird. So when you see someone who is generally not very happy but has HAD the courage to transition in this world? Just notice that it took courage, and comparing their needs to a hypothetic pervert who would benefit is really sad.
This protest feels really disingenuous, like I feel the protest was just people being assholes to her rather than people actually feeling uncomfortable with her presence in the bathroom or locker room. Regardless, w/e discomfort people might feel with someone who is trans is nothing compared to the difficulty of living a transgender life so I say let her use the bathroom and locker room of her gender.
"Hey, I know you identify as a girl, but you'll never be a real one, so here's your own area that's designated just for people like you"
Look, good on the board for trying to accommodate her, but she just wants to be like one of the girls. She shouldn't have to cut her dick off just for that, she can do that when/if she feels like.
The reason people are ignoring the aspect, is that it should be obvious to anyone why she declined the area in the first place.
Also, this isn't directed at you Nealand, but I'm always blown away at the people that subtly hint that doing this puts the cis girls at physical risk. Like the primal male in her will come out when she sees a girl nude and go on a raping spree.
thank you. I didnt know generally it happened during puberty.
GustyGardens
Banned
The reaction of the teenagers and their parents is a bit overblown, but I can understand their concern. It comes from a place of ignorance, rather than hate. The more recent rise and advancement of the transgender community has exposed a lot of people to something they can't seemingly fathom. For us, there's no issue here, but for them, it's mind-boggling to think that someone out there doesn't identify as their biological sex.
The same way that this young woman didn't feel safe using the men's restroom and locker room, her peers don't feel safe with what they perceive to be a man in their facilities. What they see is an opportunity for a man to rape and abuse them.
This young lady deserves to feel as safe as everyone else.
There's a fine fine line between ignorance and hate. Some might even say that ignorance breeds hate, and I may be inclined to agree. I hope the school board doesn't renege on their decision as it's a way to educate an entire class of people. I also hope that parents don't turn this into a religious tirade. Religion has no place in our schools. The fact of the matter is that it's 2015, and it's time we began acting more like an enlightened civilization.
The same way that this young woman didn't feel safe using the men's restroom and locker room, her peers don't feel safe with what they perceive to be a man in their facilities. What they see is an opportunity for a man to rape and abuse them.
This young lady deserves to feel as safe as everyone else.
There's a fine fine line between ignorance and hate. Some might even say that ignorance breeds hate, and I may be inclined to agree. I hope the school board doesn't renege on their decision as it's a way to educate an entire class of people. I also hope that parents don't turn this into a religious tirade. Religion has no place in our schools. The fact of the matter is that it's 2015, and it's time we began acting more like an enlightened civilization.
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
Except he's a trans man, so that's irrelevant.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
I don't think there's a good answer here. People shitting on others opinions aren't really thinking the complexity of the situation through.
Why the fuck not? Transgender people are not rapists and, if someone was really determined to harass the opposite gender in the bathroom, they don't need approval from someone to do it.
There are a whole host of things wrong with your posts. I mean the unhealthy fixation with mentioning Brock Lesnar in every post among them. You're trying to call out people as inconsistent with a hypothetical situation of a grown man in a high school environment. Your analogy is stupid, no high schooler would look like that. Stop being disingenuous. And frankly even if they did, they should be allowed to go to the girl's locker room if they identify as a girl.
uncredited male
Member
I would like to see some of the logic here fight with the existence of intersex individuals.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
I edited that post after realizing it didn't make sense. How about this one: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=177261539&postcount=213
Read the post again and you'll see that I said that in high school she looks like a football player. I didn't say she looks like Brock at age 13.
ab.aeterno
Member
...did you really just use "it" to refer to a transgender person?
And at the same time you condescendingly misgendered her, wow. It's impressive how multi-layered the awful is in your post.
Is this where we get pictures of Buck Angel and ask if you want him in the bathroom with your daughter just because he has a vagina?
Edit: Fuck it., have a free one.
According to your rules, he is in the girls locker room now. Do you think that will make female students comfortable?
I don't think a forty year old should be in a high school locker room regardless of gender, but I guess I'm old fashioned like that. ¯_(ツ
_/¯Why are you basing your answer on genitalia?
He could be a teacher, he could be a visitor, he could be a janitor. The point is a generalised one, not a specific one.
Edit: Just for your old fashioned arse:
The girl is now in the boys room (apparently she did have SRS at some point, but until then she had a penis) and the boy is now in the girls room. Still awkward for everyone involved, I would suggest.
Because it is inappropriate, and the locker room separation is there to prevent such a thing from happening.
John Kowalski
Banned
So what you're saying is, this very neglected group of people who suffer through immense struggle just to have a semblance of comfort in their life, comfort from social rejection, comfort from severe psychological abuse, that has a suicide attempt rate higher than any other demographic in the world, that has to come to gaf and read threads like these, that cannot have the right to avoid real dangerous situations that might endanger not just their physical integrity but their lives, you're saying all of this isn't as important as your fear of an incredibly unrealistic hypothesis that has no real bearing on transgender rights?
If you're trying to make the point that men are scary and likely to commit acts of violence against girls, how's that not an argument for allowing this girl in the girl's locker room to protect her from male violence?
ayy fuck bottom page'd
Hard to fight logic against intersex individuals when they make up .05% of the population at this point. Regardless really, the consistency is what the person identifies with.
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