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Mizuguchi does damage control on Lumines Live 'microtransactions': Next Gen SUCKS
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Hey guys next gen sucks.
I dunno but there seems to be something more beyond than just "It's the wave of the future". Sounds like PR talk, even though he talks sensibly in this interview.
Either MS forced them to, or Q? wanted to do it anyhow, but we'll exactly never know...
My question is, do you unlock new skins when beating CPUs in VS CPU mode like the PSP version? Or do you only get new skins through advance packs, Madonna packs, etc? I'd hate to buy the CPU mode pack just to unlock more skins :/
Either MS forced them to, or Q? wanted to do it anyhow, but we'll exactly never know...
My question is, do you unlock new skins when beating CPUs in VS CPU mode like the PSP version? Or do you only get new skins through advance packs, Madonna packs, etc? I'd hate to buy the CPU mode pack just to unlock more skins :/
SolidSnakex
Member
Nash said:
Lumines started off really well though. It was just after Lumines and Meteos when Q started gettign rocky.
krypt0nian
Banned
Dragona Akehi said:
Nah it rocks. Miz sucks.
SuperPac
Member
So if they were really going for this "a la care is the future" thing, why didn't they mimic the iTunes CD model by putting multiple parts up at once and then offering a "complete" package for a slightly lower price than all of them would've been separately? Seems like they would have pissed off fewer people that way.
My guess is that Mizuguchi is taking the analogy with music too far, and selling the base pack as an album, for an album price. The problem from our point of view is that the puzzles cost next to nothing to add... it's just designing a small 2 colour sprite for each one. Why should we not get that in the base pack?
I can understand charging for skins - that's the meat of the game - but charging for puzzle mode and mission mode stinks. When everything's added up, if it's more than the PSP version, it's shocking.
I can understand charging for skins - that's the meat of the game - but charging for puzzle mode and mission mode stinks. When everything's added up, if it's more than the PSP version, it's shocking.
krypt0nian
Banned
Brobzoid said:
Dead kittens.
orbital123
Banned
This wouldn't be an issue if the final cost was equal to the original, but the final cost of buying 5 packs at 7 dollars each plus 15 dollars for Lumines... Plus you aren't even getting as much content for more money... I don't see how that is a good business model in terms of making consumers happy unless they don't realize that they are being screwed.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
krypt0nian said:
This whole "premium downloads" malarky is directly tied in with next gen.
Premium downloads that should be part of the game in the first ****ing place: suck.
Ergo, next gen: sucks.
monchi-kun
Member
orbital123 said:
most people never know they're getting screwed over
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Mojovonio said:
That's what we said when horse ****ing armour came out.
Yeah. That really worked well.
I really hate this microtransactions business.
It also means devleopers can ship "incomplete" games and release the rest later as an expansion for 10 bucks.
For RPGs, this really concerns me. Instead of the current format of rpgs, which are like novels in structure, they may eventually turn into something more akin to comic books. What I mean by this is that instead of a full and complete story with a definite ending, rpgs may end up coming out as seemingly neverending scenarios and sketches. Aspects of the story may be compromised and we may constantly be left with cliffhangers so that developers can continue to release new episodes. Imagine RPGs being Dragon Ball Z-ized. It sucks.
It also means devleopers can ship "incomplete" games and release the rest later as an expansion for 10 bucks.
For RPGs, this really concerns me. Instead of the current format of rpgs, which are like novels in structure, they may eventually turn into something more akin to comic books. What I mean by this is that instead of a full and complete story with a definite ending, rpgs may end up coming out as seemingly neverending scenarios and sketches. Aspects of the story may be compromised and we may constantly be left with cliffhangers so that developers can continue to release new episodes. Imagine RPGs being Dragon Ball Z-ized. It sucks.
Can anyone clear up how much the initial game is, and then how much the packs are? Because I actually don't think it's a bad idea. I mean, there are many many games that I've bought in my gaming history for full price, that I played for a few levels, realised it was crap, and then wished I only spent a third of the price on it.
So it's all down to the price in my opinion. As long as they are offering the original game for a small amount, and then the packs for even smaller amounts. I think it's a good idea in the long run.
However, I can see some negatives. If developers don't bother creating the extra content unless people are coughing up the cash (in other words, only if the game becomes popular), then there could quite possibly be a stifling of original content. There are many games I've beaten and loved that no one else has even heard of. If developers don't bother finishing a game because no one's buying the packs, we have a problem.
So it's all down to the price in my opinion. As long as they are offering the original game for a small amount, and then the packs for even smaller amounts. I think it's a good idea in the long run.
However, I can see some negatives. If developers don't bother creating the extra content unless people are coughing up the cash (in other words, only if the game becomes popular), then there could quite possibly be a stifling of original content. There are many games I've beaten and loved that no one else has even heard of. If developers don't bother finishing a game because no one's buying the packs, we have a problem.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
kevm3 said:
DING DING DING. WE HAVE WINNER.***
***YOU MUST DOWNLOAD 5000 POINTS WORTH OF SHIT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE GAME FOR THE FIRST ****ING PLACE TO CLAIM YOUR PRIZE.
akachan ningen
Member
He probably didn't have any choice in the matter. I'm betting it was MS pushing for this.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Odysseus said:
DAMN RIGHT. WE DIDN'T BUY ****ING HORSE ARMOUR! THOSE ASSHATS DID AND THEY'RE RUINING GAMING FOR US. **** NON-GAMES, THIS SHIT IS WORSE.
Ok, enough allcaps for now.
Mojovonio said:
Even if most of us here don't buy it, we will continue to be punished because there are people that WILL buy it and continue this trend of content removal for sale later... The rest of us not buying this will be left with fragmented games. Developers have the audacity to charge 60 bucks for games and not even give us the whole package. Look at EA sports titles. They don't have all the features of previous gen titles. You have to buy them. W
I can understand developers are rightly becoming to see themselves as "content providers" and starting to look towards the episodic model of the major television networks for guidance....
But shit, this seems to be getting out of hand.
Instead of new episodes being released after the game is released we are getting content held back before release.
WTF?
But shit, this seems to be getting out of hand.
Instead of new episodes being released after the game is released we are getting content held back before release.
WTF?
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Safe Bet said:
I so called this shit man.
michael000
Banned
kevm3 said:
You rang!?
Not saying it'll be blue dragon (this game looks great other than the 10 year old lead, ugh), but it's going to happen. It's inevitable.
hyp
Member
don't be so quick to dismiss what he's saying. it's true, with all 3 next gen consoles coming online, publishers will find different ways to present the content. i think the point he's trying to make is that it's up to the gamer to change the way that he/she thinks. getting everything in an all inclusive package is what we've been trained to expect. but with the ipod/downloadable content generation, it will be cheaper developmentally for these companies to release content on a per "feature" basis instead of all at once. when it comes down to it, it's all business... and i don't know about you, but i'd like these small studios to stay alive so i can play their creative masterpieces.
i'm not saying this is the right/wrong path to go, but maybe it's true... we've gotta start getting used to seeing this. in the overall scheme of things, downloadable content is going to present everyone with options. it's up to the publishers to price these things right. unfortunately this way of doing business is so new that we end up feeling victimized. but hey, no one's forcing you to buy it either.
i'm not saying this is the right/wrong path to go, but maybe it's true... we've gotta start getting used to seeing this. in the overall scheme of things, downloadable content is going to present everyone with options. it's up to the publishers to price these things right. unfortunately this way of doing business is so new that we end up feeling victimized. but hey, no one's forcing you to buy it either.
I finally thought of what this reminds me of: shitty, amateur shareware. "We'll look for those viruses for free! And for $49.95, we'll remove them!"
Except that, in this example, you'd also have to pay to even get a scan.
It also reminds me of a bunch of shit I used to download when I first got the Internet. "You got to Level 2! Use PayPal now to continue!"
Except that, in this example, you'd also have to pay to even get a scan.
It also reminds me of a bunch of shit I used to download when I first got the Internet. "You got to Level 2! Use PayPal now to continue!"
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I just don't like the fact that they assumed we would easily accept this sort of crap in the first place.
What do they think we are?
What do they think we are?
Russian Steve
Member
Wario64 said:
... This scares the shit out of me.
However, you can point the finger at the companies doing this, but you have to remember the folks out there who keep paying for this stuff are just as much to blame. We as consumers have as much power to stop it as the head of whatever company that is trying to bend us over next.
Bottom line: Stop paying for it and it will stop.
Safe Bet said:
It shows up the lack of maturity of the games industry really.
The comparisons with Apple are interesting, in that the games industry has seemed to have warped the whole concept. The whole iTunes microtransactions thing was as much about placating the user, and making them feel happy about buying something which they'd originally just got for free. Hence the low fixed price, discounts when you bought the whole CD in one go. And Apple strongly resisted pressure from the record labels for increasing prices on newer stuff. They realise they need to keep the impression of it being fair.
But in the games industry, microtransactions are being offered as the developer's Holy Grail to development costs. And far less about keeping the buyer happy. The backlash over Lumines is a classic example of not thinking about the consumer.
As a collector who likes physical ownership of things, I can't say I feel any need to buy this instead of emulating/pirating it. Not that I own an xbox360 or would have any interest in this game regardless. If the only offer you're gonna give me is a download, I better be a real fan of the people I am going to financially support.
edit;
sadly, information isn't there. Like with lumines Live, what do you get in the core download? are you informed that "If you want x-feature or y-feature, you'll have to give me an additional amount of money later"
Not only is poor marketing with little information on what you get, it's expesive and it takes more time to download the core pack and five smaller ones in turn, instead of one whole pack.
edit;
Russian Steve said:
sadly, information isn't there. Like with lumines Live, what do you get in the core download? are you informed that "If you want x-feature or y-feature, you'll have to give me an additional amount of money later"
Not only is poor marketing with little information on what you get, it's expesive and it takes more time to download the core pack and five smaller ones in turn, instead of one whole pack.
If developers become 'content providers' in the sense of following what tv developers are doing, then I'm most likely done with gaming... especially if this hits rpgs, my favorite genre. Instead of playing a game and beingrewarded with a satisfying ending, we're going to continually be left with a 'to be continued' theme?
It's really ridiculous that companies are even removing CORE features of games and trying to charge you for them later. Oh, want to play two player? That'll be five extra bucks. Charging for extra game modes that should be included in the original product is ridiculous.
I was surprised the 'purity' of gaming survived so long. It looks like making games more and more mainstream and the focus of profit maximization is finally catching up with games and slowly but surely morphing it into a bastardized version of its former self.
I hate having to make so many posts back to back on this subject, but this microtransactions business seems to have the potential to ruin a hobby I've enjoyed since I was 3. So please excuse my anger.
It's really ridiculous that companies are even removing CORE features of games and trying to charge you for them later. Oh, want to play two player? That'll be five extra bucks. Charging for extra game modes that should be included in the original product is ridiculous.
I was surprised the 'purity' of gaming survived so long. It looks like making games more and more mainstream and the focus of profit maximization is finally catching up with games and slowly but surely morphing it into a bastardized version of its former self.
I hate having to make so many posts back to back on this subject, but this microtransactions business seems to have the potential to ruin a hobby I've enjoyed since I was 3. So please excuse my anger.
hyp
Member
Jonnyram said:
from his tone in the article, i think what Q is trying to do is expand their userbase a little. maybe by offering just a basic part of the game, they can snag some more people to purchase their products since the cost ($15) is a small barrier to entry for consumers as opposed to a $30-$40 fee at once. joe schmoe on the street might just be happy with the basics? maybe that's what they're banking on...
LiveFromKyoto
Member
I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea of microtransactions. But I must admit I'm bothered buy the fact that a 20 GB HDD fills up awful fast when you're downloading content, and can't be transferred to another HDD; so what happens when I need to buy a second HDD? Do I have to keep swapping them around if I have update A on one, and update B and a game save on another?
And I'm also bothered by the fact that this content has no trade or resale value. For publishers I'm sure this is wonderful, wipe out the secondary market they don't see a dime from. But for anyone else, it stinks.
I also think they've been charging too much - look at what the Oblivion DLC costs - and what you're actually getting - relative to the Morrowind expansions like Tribunal. There was several times as much content for your money there.
And I'm also bothered by the fact that this content has no trade or resale value. For publishers I'm sure this is wonderful, wipe out the secondary market they don't see a dime from. But for anyone else, it stinks.
I also think they've been charging too much - look at what the Oblivion DLC costs - and what you're actually getting - relative to the Morrowind expansions like Tribunal. There was several times as much content for your money there.
Howard Alan Treesong
Member
(Reposted from other thread)
Old microtransactions:
New microtransactions:
Old microtransactions:
New microtransactions: