Honestly Uncharted killed Tomb Raider in my eyes. I look at a character like Chloe or Nadeen and they seem far more compelling.
That's because they are.
Honestly Uncharted killed Tomb Raider in my eyes. I look at a character like Chloe or Nadeen and they seem far more compelling.
This is a video game. Video games are not real. Characters can wear whatever they want, practical or not. ROtTR has enemies that are undead firing magic at you, so there's no excuses why they can't take liberties in making more varied outfits.I hate to break it to you but an adventurer adventuring in Siberia is unlikely to be wearing anything other than trousers.
It's exactly what you said: "imo what they should do is recognise that current Lara is a ruthless, unusually driven psychopath and then make that her character arc in the next game"that's not what I said?
PLENTY of women love classic Lara, grew up with her and were inspired by her. Where did you get your information from that 90s games were like a boy's club?Lara's sexuality played a large part in her marketing because it was the 90s, video games were considered at the time to be a boys club, and Lara was the perfect marketing tool due to the fact that she was an inanimate woman that they could pose however they liked so she could endorse or behave however they liked. It was not a good thing.
This is an awful argument to make. You can't use the logic of "if x character isn't wearing y character's outfit, then y character can't wear whatever they want". It doesn't really matter if Nathan Drake only wears trousers (btw, he doesn't, so where are you getting that he does because Drake definitely does wear shorts for different costumes) because he's a totally different character, in a totally different game, made by totally different people. If that's the case, then using your logic, Nathan Drake isn't allowed to have shoot guns because Indiana Jones uses a whip. Sorry!Like, yes, women are allowed to look sexy, and so are men, so until Nathan Drake is out there in booty shorts I'm fine with keeping Lara in trousers. Sorry!
Opinions, man. What you think is mediocre could be the best, or the worst, to somebody else, and has nothing to do with modern Lara's personality. Also what do you mean by poor story and Lara looking out of place? A lack of story doesn't necessarily mean the game is worse off, otherwise Nintendo would have gone out of business a long time ago along with most arcade games during their time.With the LAU they tried to carry lara's design language forward and it didn't work. You ended up with really mediocre platforming, a poor story and a protagonist that looked out of place when compared to the other NPCs.
It's not that I want to see her wearing less clothes, just more variety in them. This is a fictional video game, be creative and don't constrict yourself to holding grounds of realism, in a far unrealistic game.I agree with you that ROTTR doesnt have particularly good writing, I just think it's at a standard video game level, and I don't want them to throw out this new design of Lara because certain people want to see her wear less clothes and have nostalgia goggles for a Lara that wasn't a well constructed character. People need to accept that Lara's design - first and foremost - was made that way to be sexy and that's no way to set about creating a multi dimensional character.
Chloe and Nadine have the personality of wet blankets, Nadine is written to be flawless and invincible while Chloe lost any sense of agency and relevance after Drake chose Elena. Literally, she could've been replaced with anyone in UC3 and the game wouldn't be any different.That's because they are.
Keeley Raider will always reign supreme.
Chloe and Nadine have the personality of wet blankets, Nadine is written to be flawless and invincible while Chloe lost any sense of agency and relevance after Drake chose Elena. Literally, she could've been replaced with anyone in UC3 and the game wouldn't be any different.
By flopped, you mean sold around 2.5 million copies by 2009, more than Chronicles, Angel of Darkness and Anniversary, and quite possibly Rise.I feel like the main thing that everyone is forgetting is that there was a reason Underworld flopped, and many critics attributed it to the fact that Lara as a character was outdated and lacked any depth.
Yup, it's absolutely eye-rolling characterization. Made a similar thread earlier this year, albeit with a different point of departure.
I like her as well. I think her personality is fine, I just think that she could use more scenes where she is more emotional. I loved how they explained why she got the second pistol in the first gameI like the reboot character. For a video game, she is easily a top 10 in complexity for a potaganist in a active series.
All of the characters in TR2013 are complete embarrassing garbage.
Not really. The presentation is better but they certainly aren't more believable.Yet despite that they're more engaging and have a more believable personality than Lara. Writing is much more than that. I feel like you're being very reductive in your assessment of both characters.
Honestly, I think modern Lara would be fine if she had some of the old Lara's smug humor injected back into her.
Less "I can do this, I can do this" and more, well, just doing it, making it look easy, and then cocking a smile like "I BREATHE adventure and action".
Basically, she needs to enjoy herself.
Could they have written any less personality into this character? What a crushing bore this character has become. One facial expression, one tone, the same monotonous dialogue over and over. Combine that with a somewhat bizarre urge to throw herself into incredibly dangerous situations without any thought - a borderline psychopath with the most paper thin motivations for everything. The half a dozen polygons of classic Lara gave off a more varied set of emotions than the one we have now. I'm not sure I've cared any less for a protagonist and their motivations than I have for new Lara.
PLENTY of women love classic Lara, grew up with her and were inspired by her. Where did you get your information from that 90s games were like a boy's club?
This is an awful argument to make. You can't use the logic of "if x character isn't wearing y character's outfit, then y character can't wear whatever they want". It doesn't really matter if Nathan Drake only wears trousers (btw, he doesn't, so where are you getting that he does because Drake definitely does wear shorts for different costumes) because he's a totally different character, in a totally different game, made by totally different people. If that's the case, then using your logic, Nathan Drake isn't allowed to have shoot guns because Indiana Jones uses a whip. Sorry!
By flopped, you mean sold around 2.5 million copies by 2009, more than Chronicles, Angel of Darkness and Anniversary, and quite possibly Rise.
Lara Croft has always been a boring character. This is nothing new.
But I guess that's how you sell games in long-running franchises now, especially for reboots. You shit on the old games to make the new one look better.
Mission Failed.
People confuse near constant quips and banter as characterization. So a woman who isn't doing that and is genuinely taking what they're doing seriously, is seen as dull. New Lara is constantly determined to do what she needs to do, and is genuinely interested in the world of Archaeology based on her mannerisms and reactions to ancient monuments.she wants to do the right thing but due to the first game she's not very easily trusting of others, hell, she can even be straight up threatening as she takes her enemies hostage, and dishes as just as much punishment as they give to her. She's constantly fighting an uphill battle when literally the entire world is seemingly out to get her whether it's with fake news like her being crazy or with an army of armed goons, all except for her small group of friends. These are all admirable qualities for a character to have. What CD needs to work on is the characterization of side characters as while their motivations make sense, they aren't super compelling. But just to reiterate, no one is constantly quipping and in this day and age gamers see that as good characterization and writing.New Lara is better, I never liked Angelina Croft.
Did it, though?
You look at the reception for these new Tomb Raiders, and you'd think Crystal Dynamics had finally discovered the secret to making an actually good Tomb Raider game or something.
It's annoying.
People confuse near constant quips and banter as characterization. So a woman who isn't doing that and is genuinely taking what they're doing seriously, is seen as dull.
She is seen as dull because the writing is completely terrible, not because she lacks quips and one liners.People confuse near constant quips and banter as characterization. So a woman who isn't doing that and is genuinely taking what they're doing seriously, is seen as dull. New Lara is constantly determined to do what she needs to do, and is genuinely interested in the world of Archaeology based on her mannerisms and reactions to ancient monuments.she wants to do the right thing but due to the first game she's not very easily trusting of others, hell, she can even be straight up threatening as she takes her enemies hostage, and dishes as just as much punishment as they give to her. She's constantly fighting an uphill battle when literally the entire world is seemingly out to get her whether it's with fake news like her being crazy or with an army of armed goons, all except for her small group of friends. These are all admirable qualities for a character to have. What CD needs to work on is the characterization of side characters as while their motivations make sense, they aren't super compelling. But just to reiterate, no one is constantly quipping and in this day and age gamers see that as good characterization and writing.
People confuse near constant quips and banter as characterization. So a woman who isn't doing that and is genuinely taking what they're doing seriously, is seen as dull. New Lara is constantly determined to do what she needs to do, and is genuinely interested in the world of Archaeology based on her mannerisms and reactions to ancient monuments.she wants to do the right thing but due to the first game she's not very easily trusting of others, hell, she can even be straight up threatening as she takes her enemies hostage, and dishes as just as much punishment as they give to her. She's constantly fighting an uphill battle when literally the entire world is seemingly out to get her whether it's with fake news like her being crazy or with an army of armed goons, all except for her small group of friends. These are all admirable qualities for a character to have. What CD needs to work on is the characterization of side characters as while their motivations make sense, they aren't super compelling. But just to reiterate, no one is constantly quipping and in this day and age gamers see that as good characterization and writing.
Connor isn't even solemn, he's just around people who treat him like shit, marginalize and use him, and don't respect his culture, they had an entire side quest dedicated to showing his character around people who don't do that.Yeah, this is something that bothers me a lot about these sorts of threads. Not that I think modern Lara Croft is a completely great character (there's a lot of improvements to be made with her), but going by both this and countless past threads about characterization, sometimes I get the impression that some people think that if a character isn't making witty one-liners every couple of minutes, that they "lack a personality". Off the top of my head there was Connor in Assassin's Creed 3 (who, granted, had a good deal of characterization issues), and people kept comparing him to Ezio and saying he lacked a personality. No, he didn't lack a personality, he was just serious and solemn whereas Ezio was energetic and charismatic. Personality types, how do they work?
The writing isn't even terrible, her progression as a fearful college student interested in archaelogy who's forced to survive and fight for her lifeShe is seen as dull because the writing is completely terrible, not because she lacks quips and one liners.
The writing isn't even terrible
The first game had awful writing and voice direction.
She is supposed to be like Cloud or Crono, dull but not the in your face asshole character like Nathan Drake. Which works fine when you should focus on the gameplay.
Horrible, evil psychotic character like Nathan or Kratos as the main characters made the games unappealing for a lot of people.
The story and characters were awful in the TR reboot. It had great gameplay imo though.