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[Mr. Pointy]

Why has no one used the 8GB 3DS cart yet? Are they not cheap enough or too slow or has it just not been needed?

Nintendo are still partnering with Macronix through 2016, so it's highly likely they'll continue with ROM storage for the portable.

 

[ElFly]

Dunno if Nintendo wants to ship expensive 64gb flash memory games, let alone 128gb ones. Maybe in a few years, but not in 2016. And this gen will probably not need cards bigger than 32gb anyway. They could easily go for NX cards go from 4gb to 32gb and this would be enough for a whole gen, with a super crazy big 64gb card by the generation's end. Super crazy big games will need to download the excess anyway.

For the home console this means dropping discs, which give bigger margins on production. Then again, discs are so cheap they could just release everything in dual format, in the same box.

Me thinks they will rather eat the costs of including a heftier harddrive, and then will have everything be downloaded. Maybe retail 4gb to 16gb games and force downloads for the rest of the game (if applicable). They already did something like that with Xenoblade X, though the result is not necessarily successful. e: now that I think xenoblade x does the equivalent of installing to the harddrive, only nintendo makes you download it because of reasons.

And they need good storage, cause everyone else is getting used to doing multi-gb patches regularly. So they may as well cut the physical middleman of a huge cart.

 

[KojiKnight]

Which is still not enough. For reference, Xenoblade X almost completely fills a 25GB disc.

For a portable, it'd be very easy to make sacrifices to get a game to fit in 16GB... The majority of space like that is going to be used on pre-rendered assets (FMVs, uncompressed or low compressed audio, etc).

People expect that portable experiences are going to be in some way negatively impacted. If the thought that the portable and console versions will be one and the same... I have very little hopes of that. At best I could see a sort of cross-buy where if a game has both versions the other will come at a significant discount.

 

[Neoxon]

For a portable, it'd be very easy to make sacrifices to get a game to fit in 16GB... The majority of space like that is going to be used on pre-rendered assets (FMVs, uncompressed or low compressed audio, etc).

People expect that portable experiences are going to be in some way negatively impacted. If the thought that the portable and console versions will be one and the same... I have very little hopes of that. At best I could see a sort of cross-buy where if a game has both versions the other will come at a significant discount.

Yeah, my posts are referencing the idea that the console & handheld could share a physical media format. I personally don't think it's financially feasible for what the console versions would necessitate as far as storage goes.

 

[ElFly]

Yeah, my posts are referencing the idea that the console & handheld could share a physical media format. I personally don't think it's financially feasible for what the console versions would necessitate as far as storage goes.

I don't think it is insurmountable once you factor in downloads.

A bigger problem is that you'd be forcing developers to face hd-console levels of costs for handheld games, if they want their games to be presentable on the home version. Dunno if every japanese dev would accept that.

Nintendo may let devs decide if their game only supports one of the two platforms, or if it is a dual platform release (maybe buy the dual-platform functionality for a premium). Given how Nintendo has to juggle their handheld and home developments and either platform hurts once the other starts receiving attention, they'd be better served by forcing their internal devs to do dual games, but not every 3rd party developers (in fact, very few) will be happy with that.

Maybe some will see the light if Nintendo manages to make a single game that shines on handhelds in japan and consoles in the west.

 

[Mpl90]

It could be that the cartridge contains the "handheld" version of the game, while, once you put it into the console, you can download additional assets, and this is how it becomes 1080p/60fps/better textures/better shaders/whatever the "home" version needs. However, that would mean that each game, even if physical, would occupy some space on the console's memory, which shouldn't be as problematic as on the handheld due to being a console and external hard disks, but still.

 

[Neoxon]

I don't think it is insurmountable once you factor in downloads.

A bigger problem is that you'd be forcing developers to face hd-console levels of costs for handheld games, if they want their games to be presentable on the home version. Dunno if every japanese dev would accept that.

Nintendo may let devs decide if their game only supports one of the two platforms, or if it is a dual platform release (maybe buy the dual-platform functionality for a premium). Given how Nintendo has to juggle their handheld and home developments and either platform hurts once the other starts receiving attention, they'd be better served by forcing their internal devs to do dual games, but not every 3rd party developers (in fact, very few) will be happy with that.

Maybe some will see the light if Nintendo manages to make a single game that shines on handhelds in japan and consoles in the west.

I've referenced this issue with the potential that Game Freak could lock the next main Pokémon game to the handheld, but you just put it into greater detail. While Game Freak is technically not a Nintendo developer, the mainline Pokémon games will likely be the exception to the "all internal devs doing dual games" deal if Nintendo doesn't want to run the risk of pissing Game Freak off. As for everyone else, I feel like this would result in third parties (if any) going for the NX Console exclusively, leaving the NX Handheld in the cold when it's fully capable (in theory) of a scaled experience.

 

[Kandinsky]

Why has no one used the 8GB 3DS cart yet? Are they not cheap enough or too slow or has it just not been needed?

Nintendo are still partnering with Macronix through 2016, so it's highly likely they'll continue with ROM storage for the portable.

I think it has to do with the eShop versions.

 

[Snakeyes]

A bigger problem is that you'd be forcing developers to face hd-console levels of costs for handheld games, if they want their games to be presentable on the home version. Dunno if every japanese dev would accept that.

Looking at how eager Japanese devs are to put their games on the PS4, I don't think it would be that much of an issue. In fact, I think some of them would welcome it, as it would be an easy opportunity to sell their home console projects in their home market. It's just a matter of downscaling their assets to handheld settings.

 

[ElFly]

I've referenced this issue with the potential that Game Freak could lock the next main Pokémon game to the handheld, but you just put it into greater detail. While Game Freak is technically not a Nintendo developer, the mainline Pokémon games will likely be the exception to the "all internal devs doing dual games" deal if Nintendo doesn't want to run the risk of pissing Game Freak off. As for everyone else, I feel like this would result in third parties (if any) going for the NX Console exclusively, leaving the NX Handheld in the cold when it's fully capable (in theory) of a scaled experience.

Yeah I guess pokemon would be the biggie.

The other interesting question is whether they are ready to sell only one Mario Kart per generation.

Looking at how eager Japanese devs are to put their games on the PS4, I don't think it would be that much of an issue. In fact, I think some of them would welcome it, as it would be an easy opportunity to sell their home console projects in their home market. It's just a matter of downscaling their assets to handheld settings.

I think the problem comes from the other way; would have Atlus made SMT4 a 3ds game if they knew it had to perform as a Wii U game too? Is Capcom ready to make Monster Hunter a full console game that will look weak on the home releases?

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

I've referenced this issue with the potential that Game Freak could lock the next main Pokémon game to the handheld, but you just put it into greater detail. While Game Freak is technically not a Nintendo developer, the mainline Pokémon games will likely be the exception to the "all internal devs doing dual games" deal if Nintendo doesn't want to run the risk of pissing Game Freak off. As for everyone else, I feel like this would result in third parties (if any) going for the NX Console exclusively, leaving the NX Handheld in the cold when it's fully capable (in theory) of a scaled experience.

You keep pushing this extrapolation that GameFreak is going to ban Pokemon from being played on consoles. How would it be any different than the GameBoy Player on the GameCube? Did GameFreak go out of their way to add lines of code so that players couldn't play over ten Pokemon games on their GameCube?

There really may not even be a market for dedicated handhelds outside of Japan next iteration, so even if this "artistic integrity" was as strong as your implying, the business is going to force it.

 

[ElFly]

You keep pushing this extrapolation that GameFreak is going to bad Pokemon from being played on consoles. How would it be any different than the GameBoy Player on the GameCube? Did GameFreak go out of their way to add lines of code so that players couldn't play over ten Pokemon games on their GameCube?

Maybe the end result would be that Gamefreak will not add any extra assets or adjustment to Pokemon, so it will look like the handheld release just on a bigger screen.

 

[Neoxon]

You keep pushing this extrapolation that GameFreak is going to bad Pokemon from being played on consoles. How would it be any different than the GameBoy Player on the GameCube? Did GameFreak go out of their way to add lines of code so that players couldn't play over ten Pokemon games on their GameCube?

This is referencing the idea that developers would have to go through a bit of trouble to scale their games between each of the NX systems. The Game Boy Player simply plays GBA, GBC, & GB games. If the NX requires different physical formats, developers would have to invest in scaling their games & getting them on the disc & cartridge for the console & handheld respectively.

There really may not even be a market for dedicated handhelds outside of Japan next iteration, so even if this "artistic integrity" was as strong as your implying, the business is going to force it.

Pokémon still sells millions of copies around the world on the 3DS, there's still a substantial market for handheld Pokémon games outside of Japan.

 

[Vena]

I think the problem comes from the other way; would have Atlus made SMT4 a 3ds game if they knew it had to perform as a Wii U game too? Is Capcom ready to make Monster Hunter a full console game that will look weak on the home releases?

UE4 (for example) has very good scaling and the largest limiters are simply making the HD models and textures. You're not making two stand-alone games. And Capcom already made a Monster Hunter on the WiiU which was already nothing more than a port of the 3DS game.

You don't really need to even make two sets of assets, just a scalable set like PC developers.

 

[Neoxon]

UE4 (for example) has very good scaling and the largest limiters are simply making the HD models and textures. You're not making two stand-alone games. And Capcom already made a Monster Hunter on the WiiU which was already nothing more than a port of the 3DS game.

You don't really need to even make two sets of assets, just a scalable set like PC developers.

The problem is that Nintendo prefers to use their own in-house engines. Since Game Freak is technically not Nintendo, they may feel differently. But they literally just made a 3D engine with models that can be scaled up to HD if they so choose. So I doubt that Game Freak will ditch that engine for a while.

 

[Vena]

The problem is that Nintendo prefers to use their own in-house engines. Since Game Freak is technically not Nintendo, they may feel differently. But they literally just made a 3D engine for Pokémon with models that can be scaled up to HD if they so choose.

Nintendo can do whatever they want. External devs will and are using more and more middleware solutions like UE4 and Unity.

 

[Neoxon]

Nintendo can do whatever they want. External devs will and are using more and more middleware solutions like UE4 and Unity.

But even when the Wii U supports Unity, Nintendo opts to still use their own engines. I'm not sure if Nintendo will change their ways & move towards UE4. Sony still uses their own engines for their bigger games (see Uncharted 4).

 

[ElFly]

UE4 (for example) has very good scaling and the largest limiters are simply making the HD models and textures. You're not making two stand-alone games. And Capcom already made a Monster Hunter on the WiiU which was already nothing more than a port of the 3DS game.

You don't really need to even make two sets of assets, just a scalable set like PC developers.

Wonder what's the minimum system for UE4 to run. All these ideas are interesting but if you still need separate engines for the handheld and console, or if the console has a ton of extra graphical features the handheld lacks, you still need to make two games.

Also, letting devs to choose which platform to target will be a need; if they can convince, say, Ubisoft to port Asscreed Victory to NX home, does Ubisoft also need to come up with a way to run that game on NX handheld? Probably would kill any kind of deal. Dual platform support will be spotty at best, rare at worst.

 

[Jigorath]

UE4 (for example) has very good scaling and the largest limiters are simply making the HD models and textures. You're not making two stand-alone games. And Capcom already made a Monster Hunter on the WiiU which was already nothing more than a port of the 3DS game.

You don't really need to even make two sets of assets, just a scalable set like PC developers.

A lot of devs aren't going to want to put games on the console and handheld. Nintendo mandating that is only going to hurt relationships with 3rd parties even more.

 

[Vena]

A lot of devs aren't going to want to put games on the console and handheld. Nintendo mandating that is only going to hurt relationships with 3rd parties even more.

Well, for one, I doubt any one said they'd be mandated to do it. I am speaking purely of how one would go about doing it.

If Capcom wants to keep MH or GF wants to keep Pokemon purely handheld, then they can do whatever they want. Nintendo would likely offer incentives to that end.

But even when the Wii U supports Unity, Nintendo opts to still use their own engines. I'm not sure if Nintendo will change their ways & move towards UE4. Sony still uses their own engines for their bigger games (see Uncharted 4).

What? Nintendo can do whatever they want with their dev tools. They don't need to use UE or Unity, they know their hardware inside and out can make a scalable engine that is superior to middleware. Why would they use middleware?

Wonder what's the minimum system for UE4 to run. All these ideas are interesting but if you still need separate engines for the handheld and console, or if the console has a ton of extra graphical features the handheld lacks, you still need to make two games.

Graphical settings.

 

[ElFly]

I'd drop Wii U BC if it was needed; it uses an already weird PowerPC chip, and may be hard to emulate even on modern hardware.

But I think the real problem is 3ds BC. If we are discussing a 540p handheld, that can play downscaled home console games, does that mean a landscape handheld? How does that fit with 3ds BC?

A 540p screen would support putting both 3ds screens on top of each other (prolly dropping 3d?), but it would look ridiculously tiny. Maybe putting them side by side? Maybe having a weird ass rotating part for the pads and buttons? Don't see a good solution.

 

[Neoxon]

What? Nintendo can do whatever they want with their dev tools. They don't need to use UE or Unity, they know their hardware inside and out can make a scalable engine that is superior to middleware. Why would they use middleware?

That's my point, Nintendo doesn't need UE4 or Unity.

 

[Jigorath]

Well, for one, I doubt any one said they'd be mandated to do it. I am speaking purely of how one would go about doing it.

If Capcom wants to keep MH or GF wants to keep Pokemon purely handheld, then they can do whatever they want. Nintendo would likely offer incentives to that end.

I've read a lot of posts with people expecting every released game to be on both the console and the handheld.

 

[Vena]

That's my point, Nintendo doesn't need UE4 or Unity.

Then I have no idea what you're saying or why you quoted me initially.

I've read a lot of posts with people expecting every released game to be on both the console and the handheld.

From a business standpoint, it makes sense to sell to as many people for as little investment as possible. Same reason developers in Japan are making PS4/PS3/Vita games (which is more work than this would be in theory).

 

[Neoxon]

Then I have no idea what you're saying or why you quoted me initially.

I thought you meant that Nintendo can do whatever they want, as in they can opt for UE4 if they want. Sorry if I misread your post.

But I think the real problem is 3ds BC. If we are discussing a 540p handheld, that can play downscaled home console games, does that mean a landscape handheld? How does that fit with 3ds BC?

A 540p screen would support putting both 3ds screens on top of each other (prolly dropping 3d?), but it would look ridiculously tiny. Maybe putting them side by side? Maybe having a weird ass rotating part for the pads and buttons? Don't see a good solution.

Unless, you know, the NX Handheld also has a bottom screen.

 

[Overside]

Are you referring to the 3DS game card storage? Last I heard was they could go all the way up to 8GB: http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/24569/3ds-cartridges-could-store-up-to-8gb

They should have cracked the seal on the 6B cart size a while ago, at the very least upon the release of the new 3ds.

Squashing Xenoblade from 4.5 Gb (Japan single layer disc, ntsc disc was 6.5 Gb because of extra voice track) to 3.6 Gb really took its toll on the textures. Theyre the same textures, just full of compression artifacts.

 

[ElFly]

I thought you meant that Nintendo can do whatever they want, as in they can opt for UE4 if they want. Sorry if I misread your post.


Unless, you know, the NX Handheld also has a bottom screen.

Yeeeah but how does that fir with the handheld-to-console games. It is yet another hurdle.

 

[Roo]

The other interesting question is whether they are ready to sell only one Mario Kart per generation.

Honestly, Mario Kart is probably one of the Nintendo franchises that would be the less affected by this.
They can always support the game with DLC as long as they see demand for it.

Also, look at it this way, if they only focus on a single game they should *ideally* beef the shit out of it. Maybe we'd get 40 default tracks instead of the standard 32, tournaments like MKW, missions like MKDS, a proper (lol) battle mode like N64, etc.

This basically applies to every game.

For instance, Smash ALWAYS has been a massive game in terms of content because it was meant as a single game for home consoles per generation.
As you can see, for this gen, even tho both games (3DS & Wii U) are still massive, they suffered because of the existence of each other.

Bringing virtually the same game to both platforms would allow them to focus on it for a longer time instead of moving on to the next installment (in this case, Mario Kart 8 basically started development right after they were done with MK7)
It even gives them room for new IP's as they don't have to work on the same series over and over and over again.

The way I see it, this new development philosophy can either go incredibly well or awfully wrong.
It's only matter of time to see if Nintendo is up to the task.

 

[Father_Brain]

Eh, I think the vast majority of games, if not all, will run on both the NX console and handheld. Since AAA console multiplats seem not to be a major concern for Nintendo, I don't think getting games to run on reasonably capable mobile hardware should be that great a challenge.

I suppose Zelda U could prove problematic, though.

 

[PotionBleue]

But even when the Wii U supports Unity, Nintendo opts to still use their own engines. I'm not sure if Nintendo will change their ways & move towards UE4. Sony still uses their own engines for their bigger games (see Uncharted 4).

What? Nintendo can do whatever they want with their dev tools. They don't need to use UE or Unity, they know their hardware inside and out can make a scalable engine that is superior to middleware. Why would they use middleware?

Though I'm not sure if it's for the game engine per se, Nintendo does use middleware in their first-party games; for example, Splatoon's e-manual says the game includes Autodesk® Beast™ software, which correlates with this 2012 announcement:

Autodesk Enters License Agreement with Nintendo

“Under terms of the agreement, Autodesk, Inc. has granted Nintendo the right to provide licensed Wii U game developers with three Gameware products: Autodesk Scaleform middleware for user interface development, Autodesk Kynapse middleware for artificial intelligence and Autodesk HumanIK middleware for interactive character animation.

The Autodesk Gameware product line is comprised of production-proven game development solutions that have been used in at least 1,000 games to date. This technology helps developers enhance production value while reducing development time, enabling them to focus efforts on creating compelling gameplay that resonates with consumers.”

 

[Vena]

Though I'm not sure if it's for the game engine per se, Nintendo does use middleware in their first-party games; for example, Splatoon's e-manual says the game includes Autodesk® Beast™ software, which correlates with this 2012 announcement:

Autodesk Enters License Agreement with Nintendo

“Under terms of the agreement, Autodesk, Inc. has granted Nintendo the right to provide licensed Wii U game developers with three Gameware products: Autodesk Scaleform middleware for user interface development, Autodesk Kynapse middleware for artificial intelligence and Autodesk HumanIK middleware for interactive character animation.

The Autodesk Gameware product line is comprised of production-proven game development solutions that have been used in at least 1,000 games to date. This technology helps developers enhance production value while reducing development time, enabling them to focus efforts on creating compelling gameplay that resonates with consumers.”

Beast is a lighting solution, and the others are model/AI solutions, but they aren't game engines in and of themselves, they are tools to building assets. What I meant in terms of middleware was an entire game development engine, like Unreal or Unity, not add-on solutions.

Like, for example, I'm pretty sure Splatoon is built on the base of the 3DWorld engine.

 

[PotionBleue]

Like, for example, I'm pretty sure Splatoon is built on the base of the 3DWorld engine.

Indeed, a hacker confirmed so. This is Blackbelly Skatepark.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/splatoon-hacking-a-whole-new-view.393929/

It works almost the same as 3DW.

 

[Vena]

Indeed, a hacker confirmed so. This is Blackbelly Skatepark.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/splatoon-hacking-a-whole-new-view.393929/

Nice to have confirmation. (Thanks.)

But, ya, this is what I meant when I was talking about middleware. They've been using middleware add-ons for a long, long time though.

 

[sörine]

I expect most games to run on both NX handheld and console, that's sort of the point of Nintendo going in this direction. They won't force cross-compatibility, they'll just make it simple and cheap enough that publishers will naturally go with it. The console may even natively play handheld code as is for developers who don't want to bother with dual or scaled assets for HD. And I suspect it's less about trying to get western AAA back and more about consolidating Japan, supporting indies and luring in mobile studios.

If there are any exclusives I'd more expect them console side due to expanded interfaces, storage and performance. Things like Wii Fit X or Xenoblade Origins or whatever.

 

[Calamari41]

As for the Mario Kart dilemma, as it stands right now they have released a new Mario Kart every three years since Super Circuit, with only two years between DD and DS.

They can just move it out to four years between games without a problem. That's plenty of time given the game's history. And then there's the added benefit of having each release work with both the handheld and the home console, which would potentially result in more sales than any given individual release. The whole idea of "one per system per generation" simply won't apply anymore, since the age-old concept of console generations is about to completely change.

I don't think anybody would say that 2018 is too soon for the next Mario Kart, even with the robust DLC we've gotten with the 2014 release.

 

[Overside]

I expect most games to run on both NX handheld and console, that's sort of the point of Nintendo going in this direction. They won't force cross-compatibility, they'll just make it simple and cheap enough that publishers will naturally go with it. The console may even natively play handheld code as is for developers who don't want to bother with dual or scaled assets for HD. And I suspect it's less about trying to get western AAA back and more about consolidating Japan, supporting indies and luring in mobile studios.

If there are any exclusives I'd more expect them console side due to expanded interfaces, storage and performance. Things like Wii Fit X or Xenoblade Origins or whatever.

Its mainly all about Nintendo, and increasing their throughput while maintaining their quality.

Even if the nx home and mobile had completely different libraries, (Which, if this is a thing they are doing, they wont, there will be plenty cross play stuff) this would still benefit them immensely.

Nintendo, is having trouble bringing out games in a timely manner, this is a big problem, because they are pretty much supporting everything on their home console by themselves, while they also have to make games for the 3ds.

The problem is, these two platforms are very very different. In order to make high quality products on 3ds, you require people who have mastered how to utilize that platform.

For the Wii u, you need people who have mastered that platform.

Someone who has mastered the wii u platform, can not make high quality games on the 3ds, and someone who is highly skilled at making games for the 3ds, can not simply take that expertise and make high quality wii u games with it.

The systems are completely different, one would need to take the extra time, to master both platforms.... And its not a matter of system power, even if you magically made them the same power, they are completely different.

What Nintendo wants, is to make making games on both platforms the same. That way, Everyone can be a highly proficient on either the home console, or the mobile platform, without needing to take the extra time to get trained up to the point of having mastery on that platform, you just master the 'nx' platform, and you are fully proficient at producing on any platform in the current Nintendo umbrella. Personell can freely be moved as needed between projects, even if they are on different platforms.

It will greatly expediate nintendos content throughput, while maintaining their high quality, and their employees quality of life.

 

[z0m3le]

I think you guys are over thinking this, Nintendo's best option is to create one console with multiple formfactors, developers could choose to change their settings but many will likely just use an automatic solution of rendering the same graphics at a higher resolution. Think dolphin or how that dark souls fix allowed you to render above 720p on pc, you don't need to create a whole new game to have the handheld play 540p and the console play 720p - 1080p.

As for file sizes, there shouldn't be a need for anything beyond 32gb, even ps4 games are limited to 50gb and that is 1080p for most third parties, they would be able to have the same game at 720p fit in 32gb in this way.

Also disc drive costs a lot in terms of design, cooling, repair and the hardware, these savings can be used for a larger memory pool with sdxc as a way to extend the memory on both the console and handheld.

Everything becomes easy if you stop thinking about the handheld and console as separate platforms, it really is the only solution for Nintendo as they are adding a new market with smart phones and they already struggle to produce enough content for just 2.

 

[Neoxon]

I think you guys are over thinking this, Nintendo's best option is to create one console with multiple formfactors, developers could choose to change their settings but many will likely just use an automatic solution of rendering the same graphics at a higher resolution. Think dolphin or how that dark souls fix allowed you to render above 720p on pc, you don't need to create a whole new game to have the handheld play 540p and the console play 720p - 1080p.

As for file sizes, there shouldn't be a need for anything beyond 32gb, even ps4 games are limited to 50gb and that is 1080p for most third parties, they would be able to have the same game at 720p fit in 32gb in this way.

Also disc drive costs a lot in terms of design, cooling, repair and the hardware, these savings can be used for a larger memory pool with sdxc as a way to extend the memory on both the console and handheld.

Everything becomes easy if you stop thinking about the handheld and console as separate platforms, it really is the only solution for Nintendo as they are adding a new market with smart phones and they already struggle to produce enough content for just 2.

I think the issue lies in the idea that the console can just use the handheld's cartridges. While 32GB is enough for most Nintendo games, it won't be enough for the big Nintendo games like Zelda or Xenoblade, along with any potential AAA third party games (if any).

 

[tronic307]

But I think the real problem is 3ds BC. If we are discussing a 540p handheld, that can play downscaled home console games, does that mean a landscape handheld? How does that fit with 3ds BC?
.

Could be a single vertical screen with a divider like the 2DS. That form factor would make for a more ergonomic GamePad, should Nintendo wish to carry that functionality forward. I wouldn't expect the NX console to include one. Modular controls could also allow for adaptable screen orientation. The GamePad's controls are already internally modular.

 

[z0m3le]

I think the issue lies in the idea that the console can just use the handheld's cartridges. While 32GB is enough for most Nintendo games, it won't be enough for the big Nintendo games like Zelda or Xenoblade, along with any potential AAA third party games (if any).

I touched on that with 720p vs 1080p, but I wonder why you think 32GB wouldn't be enough for Zelda or Xenoblade. Wii U is limited to 25GB discs currently and there is also solutions like Xenoblade Chronicles X with an install patch.

I don't see a real reason why 32GB wouldn't be enough and there also isn't a reason 64GB cards couldn't exist.

 

[Neoxon]

I touched on that with 720p vs 1080p, but I wonder why you think 32GB wouldn't be enough for Zelda or Xenoblade. Wii U is limited to 25GB discs currently and there is also solutions like Xenoblade Chronicles X with an install patch.

I don't see a real reason why 32GB wouldn't be enough and there also isn't a reason 64GB cards couldn't exist.

And those games are at 720p. Imagine trying to store 1080p textures as well as more detailed environments.

 

[z0m3le]

And those games are at 720p. Imagine trying to store 1080p textures as well as more detailed environments.

I don't see a reason for them to push 1080p for AAA games, especially 3rd party ones. I think Nintendo's direction for Wii U with their mix of 1080p and 720p games already hit a nice balance. How many PS4 games even use more than 32GBs? Are most PS4 games even dual layer? (50gb) or mostly 25gb single layer.

After looking at the launch titles, it seems they are mostly at or below 32GB, many actually much lower. There really is no such limit to these card sizes, so they could still offer 64GB but it would be bigger than PS4 or Xbox one can go and NX shouldn't need that, considering we are expecting it below PS4.

One last point I'd like to make is that Nintendo has since the N64 used less storage media than their competitors, N64 I believe had 32MB carts, GameCube had 1.8gb mini discs, wii used dual layer DVDs while PS3 had 50gb discs, Wii U is 25th, so they still haven't completely caught up.

 

[lwilliams3]

I don't see a reason for them to push 1080p for AAA games, especially 3rd party ones. I think Nintendo's direction for Wii U with their mix of 1080p and 720p games already hit a nice balance. How many PS4 games even use more than 32GBs? Are most PS4 games even dual layer? (50gb) or mostly 25gb single layer.

After looking at the launch titles, it seems they are mostly at or below 32GB, many actually much lower. There really is no such limit to these card sizes, so they could still offer 64GB but it would be bigger than PS4 or Xbox one can go and NX shouldn't need that, considering we are expecting it below PS4.

One last point I'd like to make is that Nintendo has since the N64 used less storage media than their competitors, N64 I believe had 32MB carts, GameCube had 1.8gb mini discs, wii used dual layer DVDs while PS3 had 50gb discs, Wii U is 25th, so they still haven't completely caught up.

There are several things we need to look at: while it is not nearly as bad as it was back in the N64 era, the type of cards the uses 3DS does cost more than discs, and the difference does get more pronounce as you increase the card size. This is one of the reason why we didn't see a 8GB card for the 3DS even if it was capable. Of course, a disc drive in a portable system is still a no go, but a disc drive for a console may still be preferred for this generation until those prices reduce more, especially if Nintendo don't want to completely lose the possibility of having physical BC with the Wii U/Wii.

 

[Neoxon]

There are several things we need to look at: while it is not nearly as bad as it was back in the N64 era, the type of cards the uses 3DS does cost more than discs, and the difference does get more pronounce as you increase the card size. This is one of the reason why we didn't see a 8GB card for the 3DS even if it was capable. Of course, a disc drive in a portable system is still a no go, but a disc drive for a console may still be preferred for this generation until those prices reduce more, especially if Nintendo don't want to completely lose the possibility of having physical BC with the Wii U/Wii.

BC would already be gone anyway once they change the architecture.

 

[MCN]

BC would already be gone anyway once they change the architecture.

Not necessarily. Xbox One can play Xbox 360 games now, and it is a completely different architecture. Ways and means.

 

[Starchasing]

There are several things we need to look at: while it is not nearly as bad as it was back in the N64 era, the type of cards the uses 3DS does cost more than discs, and the difference does get more pronounce as you increase the card size. This is one of the reason why we didn't see a 8GB card for the 3DS even if it was capable. Of course, a disc drive in a portable system is still a no go, but a disc drive for a console may still be preferred for this generation until those prices reduce more, especially if Nintendo don't want to completely lose the possibility of having physical BC with the Wii U/Wii.

Would Nintendo go digital download only? Mobile does it and consumers dont care. Video games stores have now lots os space dedicated to clothes and second hand gadgets. They would be happy selling Amiibos and cards.

 

[Neoxon]

Would Nintendo go digital download only? Mobile does it and consumers dont care. Video games stores have now lots os space dedicated to clothes and second hand gadgets. They would be happy selling Amiibos and cards.

Xbox One tried & got crucified for it. Plus you have to account for those with limited access to the Internet.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Wait, are people talking about using game cards for the console?

I'd like to see something like:

- Game cards for handheld, discs for console.
- Console might also be able to take game cards in and play upressed versions of the same game natively. But it could also just be you buy the game, associate it with your account, and then can download either the "Console version" or the "Handheld version" to your two devices.
- Handheld targets 540p at visual fidelity roughly in the ballpark of the WiiU (maybe a bit less), console targets 1080p at PS4+ level.
- Handheld designed to do low latency streaming from console when you're physically in close proximity, or higher latency network streaming over long distances / the internet.

I'm also expecting that my hopes are far too high and I won't get something nearly this good.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Wait, are people talking about using game cards for the console?

I'd like to see something like:

- Game cards for handheld, discs for console. Console might also be able to take game cards in and play upressed versions of the same game natively.
- Handheld targets 540p at visual fidelity roughly in the ballpark of the WiiU (maybe a bit less), console targets 1080p at PS4+ level.

Exactly. This would be incredible value for money. I would have to buy an NX.

 

[Pokemaniac]

BC would already be gone anyway once they change the architecture.

No it wouldn't. Even if they don't include the Wii U CPU as a BC chip in the console (something Nintendo has been known to do), certain forms of emulation, such as binary translation, will also be possible. If they planned ahead far enough, Nintendo may even be able to get Wii U games running on NX by just recompiling the source code.

Nintendo have gone to great lengths to accommodate BC in the past. It is unwise to just assume that they won't this time without some actual evidence..