• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

MS doesn’t want you to have cool DLC for free: Gears,Epic, & gamers get screwed

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
I read this whole topic thinking why haven't neoGAF's resident MS employees chimed end to put an end to this ridiculousness by denying these accusations. It is very rare and unusual for a topic so derived from MS's supposed incompetence to go unanswered from Stinkles, Arne and co. I mean wouldn't they love to come in here and clear this misuderstanding up for everyone? Then it hit me. They would risk job security saying a word about this because the accusations brought foward aren't entirely false and might have more truth to them than even they would like to admit up to.

Having said that if this is true I sadly predicted this would happen when I first saw the financial corner MS was backing themselves into with Xbox. Xbox fans got too use to MS taking a big hit in their pockets just to spoil us gamers with cheap moddable hardware with all the fixins (HDD standard) and a buisness model seemingly designed around making their fanbase happy. But when it came time for them to make that money back people would start to see a completely different MS whoes primary concern is now pure profit. There is nothing wrong with that if it wasn't for the fact that MS had already established a loyal fanbase designed around their old buisness model no matter how unrealistic it was to maintain.

Anyone else remember when Xbox was revealed and MS bragged about being the only console to come with hardrive as standard allowing for possibilities not possible on PS2 and Gamecube? They stated how Sony and Nintendo were holding back progress by not making HDD standard as well and they were the only ones moving the industry foward. Not only did they completely flip-flop on there stance on integrated HDD and developers being able to design around it but now they even refused to make things like wifi standard (not even in their "Elite" sku) when even the Wii the technoligical joke of the generation made wifi a standard. When you are forced to turn a profit it is impossible to run the kind of buisness model MS did with Xbox which sadly means decisions like stabalizing download prices.

If we continue to get more free content like the GoW map pack then XBL consumers will get use to having that sort of content for free and will eventually refuse to be charged for a similiar expansion in another game because they feel it could of been provided free of charge just like the other games. MS definitely do not want us getting use to having such content for free especially with a game that popular and what they probably have in store for Halo 3. Thats it in a nutshell.
 
Shaheed79 said:
I read this whole topic thinking why haven't neoGAF's resident MS employees chimed end to put an end to this ridiculousness by denying these accusations. It is very rare and unusual for a topic so derived from MS's supposed incompetence to go unanswered from Stinkles, Arne and co. I mean wouldn't they love to come in here and clear this misuderstanding up for everyone? .

They aren't here, because this is entirely true. Listen to the latest 1upYours, and you'll hear Mark Rein and Tim Sweeney attest to the fact that MS wants devs to charge for premium DLC on 360.
 

open_mouth_

insert_foot_
the laws of supply and demand will conquer all.

if the content is worth it to *you*, then pay the price. If it's not or if you're pride gets in the way, then don't. Unfortunately, it seems more people are willing to pay for that extra content so it probably won't be going away any time soon. In fact, I predict Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo will milk their fanbase for all they can get, which is not the worst thing in the world because it may actually keep the gaming market healthy, keep competition levels sky high, and enable the game makers to continue to make the games we love, even if it costs us more each year.
 

Bamihap

Good at being the bigger man
I will not pay for content for Gears of War.. Period. Epic has always supported there fanbase with free content (they've even released complete expansion packs for free). If M$ forces us to pay for content that was meant to be free... forget it.

When i buy an Epic game i'm paying for the support they've always given their fanbase.
If WE pay for content, M$ will only force more developers to release their content for money!
 

urk

butthole fishhooking yes
Bamihap said:
If WE pay for content, M$ will only force more developers to release their content for money!

You're standing on the shore and a Tsunami is cresting. I appreciate your point of view, but good luck with that.
 
After listening to Mark Rein on 1Up Yours, I was almost shocked. From reading GAF I kept getting the vibe that Epic is pissed, this is driving a spike between Epic and MS, and so on. But listening to Mark it sounded like they aren't pissed, they acknowledge the disagreement but understand Microsoft's point of view, and it certainly doesn't sound like anything that would drive them away from the platform.

He seemed a lot more irked about the GFW Live restrictions, and for good reason.
 

Dina

Member
beermonkey@tehbias said:
After listening to Mark Rein on 1Up Yours, I was almost shocked. From reading GAF I kept getting the vibe that Epic is pissed, this is driving a spike between Epic and MS, and so on. But listening to Mark it sounded like they aren't pissed, they acknowledge the disagreement but understand Microsoft's point of view, and it certainly doesn't sound like anything that would drive them away from the platform.

He seemed a lot more irked about the GFW Live restrictions, and for good reason.

Both parties are professional on this, it's not too hard to imagine how the rest of the prized DLC will look in comparison to free GoW DLC, even more when you imagine the average quality of DLC's compared to the standard GoW has set.
 

Xisiqomelir

Member
shpankey said:
*IF* true, this is complete bullshit. Not to overreact, but if this shit it true I would honestly sell my 360 and buy a Wii and PS3 and never ever look on MSFT favorably again.

Is this going to go down now?
 

Tieno

Member
beermonkey@tehbias said:
After listening to Mark Rein on 1Up Yours, I was almost shocked. From reading GAF I kept getting the vibe that Epic is pissed, this is driving a spike between Epic and MS, and so on. But listening to Mark it sounded like they aren't pissed, they acknowledge the disagreement but understand Microsoft's point of view, and it certainly doesn't sound like anything that would drive them away from the platform.

He seemed a lot more irked about the GFW Live restrictions, and for good reason.
I'm just glad that at the end of the day, Epic got what they wanted and the DLC is free.
Both postions(MS and Epic's) are understandable though.
 

MCD

Junior Member
Tieno said:
I'm just glad that at the end of the day, Epic got what they wanted and the DLC is free.
Both postions(MS and Epic's) are understandable though.

So wait...the new 4 maps for GOW will be free now?
 
McDragon said:
So wait...the new 4 maps for GOW will be free now?

I don't think that's confirmed. It did sound like the 'pay if you want it now, get it free if you wait a few months' model of the prior Halo 2 maps is a distinct possibility.
 

MCD

Junior Member
beermonkey@tehbias said:
I don't think that's confirmed. It did sound like the 'pay if you want it now, get it free if you wait a few months' model of the prior Halo 2 maps is a distinct possibility.

hmm...nice strategy but isn't it all about choice? i mean why can't we get it for free?

i remember that Peter Moore guy talking about choices...
 

Tieno

Member
McDragon said:
So wait...the new 4 maps for GOW will be free now?
They aren't? I thought Mark said on the forums the DLC(mode?) will be free...maybe I jumped to conclusions too soo?
 

PleoMax

Banned
I think MS should really stop and take a moment to think about where's it's going from here.

Don't get so greedy so fast.
 
Tieno said:
They aren't? I thought Mark said on the forums the DLC(mode?) will be free...maybe I jumped to conclusions too soo?

The mode is in the next free patch, and the mode works on the existing multiplayer maps. The new maps are a whole separate thing.
 

yukoner

Member
watership said:
Publishers and Developers having disagreements and infighting is not unusal in the gaming industry.

What is unusual, is that 1up and Epic have dragged this out into the open. I don't know if it's good or bad. It certainly makes the community rally around Epic and start throwing rocks at Microsoft. This isn't supposed to public. Epic and MS are partners. Epic just decided to take this disagreement to the rest of us, and it sorta feels like dirty pool to me. Insiders knew this sort of stuff was happening and has happened before.. I'm sorta torn on who to throw rocks at.

You should be commending epic for having the balls to shine the light on this.

MS is making mistakes, if they don't get called out, they won't stop and question them. Hopefully more 3rd parties begin speaking out as well.
 

yukoner

Member
beermonkey@tehbias said:
The mode is in the next free patch, and the mode works on the existing multiplayer maps. The new maps are a whole separate thing.

Epic said it's looking like the maps will eventually be free, after an exclusive period for purchasers, ala Halo 2.
 
PleoMax said:
I think MS should really stop and take a moment to think about where's it's going from here.

Don't get so greedy so fast.


Yeah its not all tied up yet. Sony is far from dead and buried.

My take on this? WTF do I pay for gold? This kind of shit should be for "gold" members. Things like character downloads should be for gold members.

Then again, I got the "premium" system until there was an Elite.

Now I will be getting a PS3 as soon as they get their act together.
 
Microsoft and Epic have reached a compromise:

Mark Rein said:
Epic thinks the way to maximize the return on Gears of War is to give the maps away for free and Microsoft thinks the way to maximize the return on Gears of War is to sell the maps. So what we’ve agreed to do is to put these maps on sale at a reasonable price then make them free a few months later. They did this with the original Halo2 map pack and it was a huge success. Lots of people bought the maps and lots of people downloaded them when they became free. That’s what is going to happen and it seems like a fair compromise for both companies and a win-win for Gears players.

The broader issue of Microsoft controling the prices of content and what content developers make available for free is still unresolved...
 

watership

Member
I like how this is all a MS bashing thread when the purpose of all business is to make money.
Let EPIC move to Sony.. where they don't overcharge for anything.

.. oh wait.
 

Zonar

Member
Shaheed79 said:
I read this whole topic thinking why haven't neoGAF's resident MS employees chimed end to put an end to this ridiculousness by denying these accusations. It is very rare and unusual for a topic so derived from MS's supposed incompetence to go unanswered from Stinkles, Arne and co. I mean wouldn't they love to come in here and clear this misuderstanding up for everyone? Then it hit me. They would risk job security saying a word about this because the accusations brought foward aren't entirely false and might have more truth to them than even they would like to admit up to.

Having said that if this is true I sadly predicted this would happen when I first saw the financial corner MS was backing themselves into with Xbox. Xbox fans got too use to MS taking a big hit in their pockets just to spoil us gamers with cheap moddable hardware with all the fixins (HDD standard) and a buisness model seemingly designed around making their fanbase happy. But when it came time for them to make that money back people would start to see a completely different MS whoes primary concern is now pure profit. There is nothing wrong with that if it wasn't for the fact that MS had already established a loyal fanbase designed around their old buisness model no matter how unrealistic it was to maintain.

Anyone else remember when Xbox was revealed and MS bragged about being the only console to come with hardrive as standard allowing for possibilities not possible on PS2 and Gamecube? They stated how Sony and Nintendo were holding back progress by not making HDD standard as well and they were the only ones moving the industry foward. Not only did they completely flip-flop on there stance on integrated HDD and developers being able to design around it but now they even refused to make things like wifi standard (not even in their "Elite" sku) when even the Wii the technoligical joke of the generation made wifi a standard. When you are forced to turn a profit it is impossible to run the kind of buisness model MS did with Xbox which sadly means decisions like stabalizing download prices.

If we continue to get more free content like the GoW map pack then XBL consumers will get use to having that sort of content for free and will eventually refuse to be charged for a similiar expansion in another game because they feel it could of been provided free of charge just like the other games. MS definitely do not want us getting use to having such content for free especially with a game that popular and what they probably have in store for Halo 3. Thats it in a nutshell.

I have notice that every single time a Big fud comes up with MS's name on it and it's false they will all chime in.....but if it's true, you will never hear a peep denying it. do a search they (the people that work for MS) never lie. It's always only 3 ways they post.

A) If its just a flat out and complete lie, they post
B) If they truly don't know, but some if it is true, they don't post
C) If it's true, they don't post
 

maus

Member
I think all this charging for content would be totally permissible if these new games were still $50. But they're ****ing not. This price gauging has gotten way too prominent way too quickly.
 
In the new Team Fortress 2 preview, it certainly seems that Valve is making a dig...or two...at Microsoft over the whole Marketplace pricing controversy.

The extra content should be maps and "gameplay stuff," according to Valve's Marketing Director Doug Lombardi. As for price, Valve says it will all be free. "We have no plans to do booster packs for ten dollars," says Lombardi. Walker went on to add, "We've never charged for any extra content...We want people to be glad to be a customer of Valve."

It does look like we'll be seeing some real free in-game content for Worms, though.

PREMIUM DLC

* Gamerpics 150 pts (standard MS pricing)
* Worms Dashboard Theme 150 pts (standard MS pricing)

DLC

* Speech Pack 1 (FREE) - A dozen or so speech banks. **
* Space Theme & Audio (FREE) - New background level to play on
* Audio Pack (FREE) - Various background audio and Worms theme

Expect additional speech packs, level themes, more audio, gamerpics and dashboard themes from then on. Some of the content will be charged, some will be free.

**Africaan, Angry Scots, Classic, Cyberworms, Danish2, DanisPyrus, DoubleohSeven, Dutch, Dutch2, Finnish, Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese, Redneck, Russian, Scouser, Stiff Upper Lip, Swedish & Swedish 2 (Note: It is currently hoped that all speech banks will be supplied FREE).

Of course, that's all stuff that would have been included if the game hadn't been developed under the old 50MB limit...
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Crap man, EA is publishing PS3's half-life2 orange right? Gah bet they'll pull a MS and charge for map packs and such.
 
Ploid 3.0 said:
Crap man, EA is publishing PS3's half-life2 orange right? Gah bet they'll pull a MS and charge for map packs and such.

Publishers are wise to not piss off Valve. Ask Vivendi.

Valve has plenty of clout. If they want content to be free, where possible, they could certainly put it that in their contract with EA.
 

LAMBO

Member
Yup, Valve and Steam shows how to do DLC in a way that keeps bringing the customer back. Epic has been pretty good too with DLC when MS isn't publishing.
 

FightyF

Banned
We already got free game-modes and free maps with Gears.

I don't mind paying for new maps, as they already gave us some free ones.

After giving away free content, I think developers are entitled to charge for new content.
 

strikeselect

You like me, you really really like me!
The extra content should be maps and "gameplay stuff," according to Valve's Marketing Director Doug Lombardi. As for price, Valve says it will all be free. "We have no plans to do booster packs for ten dollars," says Lombardi. Walker went on to add, "We've never charged for any extra content...We want people to be glad to be a customer of Valve."


go valve! :D
 

FlyinJ

Douchebag. Yes, me.
Fight for Freeform said:
After giving away free content, I think developers are entitled to charge for new content.

Yeap, they certainly are. And no one is contesting that. Have you read the thread?
 
The extra content should be maps and "gameplay stuff," according to Valve's Marketing Director Doug Lombardi. As for price, Valve says it will all be free. "We have no plans to do booster packs for ten dollars," says Lombardi. Walker went on to add, "We've never charged for any extra content...We want people to be glad to be a customer of Valve."

I love Valve.
 

tizer111

Member
Fight for Freeform said:
We already got free game-modes and free maps with Gears.

I don't mind paying for new maps, as they already gave us some free ones.

After giving away free content, I think developers are entitled to charge for new content.

I think the point is they didn't want to charge for it but have been forced to.

Having your choices removed is never a good thing.

If PS Home works well MS won't be getting a renewal of my Gold subscription.
 
tizer111 said:
If PS Home works well MS won't be getting a renewal of my Gold subscription.

That statement really doesn't make much sense. Your renewal of your Gold subscription should be based on your desire to play the online multiplayer portion of Xbox 360 games. It is almost like you are saying “if the PS3 has an awesome 3D chatroom, I won’t want to play 360 games”.
 
a Master Ninja said:
Major Nelson and his co-host "e" make some asinine comments on why Microsoft is charging for the maps Epic wanted free from the start. Ugh...not funny...

http://www.*******.com/2007/05/08/major-nelson-co-host-burns-epic-in-free-debate/

http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2007/05/06/show-224-the-one-with-e-and-the-pac-man-expert.aspx
:lol :lol :lol

awesome.

maybe a few more people will realize that his show is just a weekly ad for microsoft and stop listening.
 

chriskzoo

Banned
LOL, just got done listening to the segment on Major Nelson (LINK)

Starts around the 7:00 mark. LOL, trying to blame it on Epic for costing them $1 Billion by bumping up the RAM from 256 to 512 which they needed for Gears. Without that RAM, the 360 would be dead in the water.

Just a notch below on the "lame" scale was "e" saying "people who leak things just suck" about the Halo 3 leaks. Seriously, who does that leak hurt?
 
The Faceless Master said:
:lol :lol :lol

awesome.

maybe a few more people will realize that his show is just a weekly ad for microsoft and stop listening.

I've stopped listening. The Guitar Hero justification and RAM b.s. is sickening.
 
Top Bottom