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[malboroking]

I highly doubt you can name them.

Pretty sure he's talking about the fact that the PC is an open platform whereas the Xbone is not. There's a lot of choices when it comes to where you can get your PC games, On the Xbone, Microsoft is the only game in town.

 

[Chief Icaroc]

I'm so upset by this. Took away family sharing digital games, which is the future, and also kept the need for disc in tray. Gave me no internet connection needed - I'm on 24/7 as it is, that's not a benefit.

This helps almost no one. Anyone upset by the initial MS offering jumped to PS4 and will be too proud to jump back. Anyone who is a PS fanboy is already getting PS4.

All it's doing it hurting people who were going to buy and were excited about the new future features.

I kind of agree. Look at the "getting an Xbox One now?" all the replies are still "$499" or "Kinect sux". One guy even says "would you date someone who tried to rape you?" which is insane after the thread we just endured over the "it will all be over soon" comment during the Microsoft press conference.

I was kind of looking forward to not changing he discs, even though that is not a huge deal I guess, I don't sell my games back for scratch, and I buy new so devs get paid. My console is always plugged into the internet and so therefore in my mind it is already always on.

I get that this doesn't work for everyone, but it is too bad that they couldn't make the service opt in instead of across the board.

You would think that they could just say that if the disc is in the tray, then no checkin. Otherwise, you are opting in to checks. Solves most of the issues.

Super long post. Anyway I'll have both.

 

[bearlabored]

Pretty sure he's talking about the fact that the PC is an open platform whereas the Xbone is not. There's a lot of choices when it comes to where you can get your PC games, On the Xbone, Microsoft is the only game in town.

If so, it is retarded way of thinking.

1) I doubt Steam Box will have origin/uplay or disc support.
2) Xbox One - whole package as a Steam, if you want alternative, buy Wii U, PS4 or PC. Why you want feature from device, clearly not supported by design, and MS clearly says so. Who forces you to buy it?

 

[cicero]

I clearly felt the benefits (family sharing, instant access anywhere, not swapping discs) outweighed the negatives (24 hour check-in, complicated used sell).

That's much better than steam imo.

Except that there is no comparable relationship on the Steam side with brick-and-mortar retailers that MS relies on and must maintain on their end. MS can't and doesn't undercut retailers like Gamestop like anyone can see regularly happens on Steam. What Steam does is provide free keys. "Once your game is accepted for distribution on Steam, we will give you as many keys for your game as you want at no cost." and this from 2009, pre-Greenlight "There is no requirement that you sell your game on the Steam digital store." This was simply never likely to happen with MS. The big retailer competition that some people here assume was going to happen to drive down prices to Steam sale levels would never occur.


http://www.geekwire.com/2011/experiments-video-game-economics-valves-gabe-newell/

Gabe Newell: It’s interesting to touch on a number of pricing and service issues, because it will help convey the complexity of what we’re seeing in the entertainment space, and there’s probably also going to be lessons in it for other people trying to create value on the Internet.
One thing that we have learned is that piracy is not a pricing issue. It’s a service issue. The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It’s by giving those people a service that’s better than what they’re receiving from the pirates. For example, Russia. You say, oh, we’re going to enter Russia, people say, you’re doomed, they’ll pirate everything in Russia. Russia now outside of Germany is our largest continental European market.

Ed Fries: That’s incredible. That’s in dollars?

Newell: That’s in dollars, yes. Whenever I talk about how much money we make it’s always dollar-denominated. All of our products are sold in local currency. But the point was, the people who are telling you that Russians pirate everything are the people who wait six months to localize their product into Russia. … So that, as far as we’re concerned, is asked and answered. It doesn’t take much in terms of providing a better service to make pirates a non-issue.
Now we did something where we decided to look at price elasticity. Without making announcements, we varied the price of one of our products. We have Steam so we can watch user behavior in real time. That gives us a useful tool for making experiments which you can’t really do through a lot of other distribution mechanisms. What we saw was that pricing was perfectly elastic. In other words, our gross revenue would remain constant. We thought, hooray, we understand this really well. There’s no way to use price to increase or decrease the size of your business.
But then we did this different experiment where we did a sale. The sale is a highly promoted event that has ancillary media like comic books and movies associated with it. We do a 75 percent price reduction, our Counter-Strike experience tells us that our gross revenue would remain constant. Instead what we saw was our gross revenue increased by a factor of 40. Not 40 percent, but a factor of 40. Which is completely not predicted by our previous experience with silent price variation. …
Then we decided that all we were really doing was time-shifting revenue. We were moving sales forward from the future. Then when we analyzed that we saw two things that were very surprising. Promotions on the digital channel increased sales at retail at the same time, and increased sales after the sale was finished, which falsified the temporal shifting and channel cannibalization arguments. Essentially, your audience, the people who bought the game, were more effective than traditional promotional tools. So we tried a third-party product to see if we had some artificial home-field advantage. We saw the same pricing phenomenon. Twenty-five percent, 50 percent and 75 percent very reliably generate different increases in gross revenue.

http://www.geekwire.com/2011/valves-newell-predicts-shakeup-for-closed-game-consoles/

Newell: I consider Apple to be very closed. Let’s say you have a book business and you are charging 5 to 7 percent gross margins, you can’t exist in an Apple world because they want 30 percent, and they don’t care that you only have 7 percent to play with.

Fries: How is Steam different? Because you run your own digital distribution system that has its own tax.

Newell: Yeah, people can use it or not use it. We give away the tools for free. They can be included in people’s products. … We’ll provide server capacity, matchmaking services, product services, and all that’s free for content developers. If a product gets sold through our system, then we take a tax. If it’s sold through retail, or if it’s sold through a developer’s website or it’s sold through Origin or Direct2Drive, then we don’t take anything.
We’re only generating money when we’re directly contributing to a sale. Our tools and services are free to use, regardless of distribution channel. If we were to create a hardware platform of our own, and put our stuff on it, the first people we would want to stand up on stage with us would be people who built competitive distribution signals, so that people understood that we actually value openness and alternatives as being critical to the long-term viability of the entertainment and games industries.

If people seriously read that and actually expect that Microsoft was going down that same exact road, or that their relationship with brick-and-mortar retailers was going to exist on that same level, they are delusional to say the least. Most of the apparent Steam and Microsoft Xbox One comparisons and expectations were never legitimate and have been based on ignorance. All one has to do is read those interviews and suddenly it becomes clear just why many people would trust Steam on a basic level even despite the unfortunate DRM they refer to as a "terminable non-exclusive license" where people are basically renting access. I will continue to trust them to a certain degree as long as they maintain that trust. Microsoft has already violated the trust of the general public and its customers on a regular basis. They have had no qualms about doing so. There is no comparison between the two when it comes to anti-consumer corporate policy and trust.

 

[jediyoshi]

Learn about it, before telling something, will ya.
In steam you need internet connection to go offline, and not simple ping check, but good speed for downloading all the mandatory updates.

Wow, completely incorrect. This takes like two seconds to check, spoilers: you don't. The hubris in this post is astounding.

 

[bishopcruz]

It still amazes me how many people are caught up on a family plan that we knew practically nothing about. Could it have been awesome? Maybe, but with no real information to go on, what exactly was Microsoft expecting? I don't what it says MS thinks of the consumer, either they thought we were all idiots and would take the DRM restrictions with nary a peep, or they assumed that their fanbase were all geniuses that saw the world exactly as they did. Probably a little of both.

The possibility of losing out on digital sharing sucks, but once more, blaming the vocal community is just dumb. Microsoft shat the bed when it came to any sort of communication, and that is that. I know that I feel better with the old model as compared to the nebulous DRM strategy that seemed to be changing by the person and by the hour.

Had MS spent 20 minutes of their initial TV-heavy reveal to outline the sharing plan, the DRM, and specifics as to how used games would work, maybe things would be different. Then again, people, myself included love their ability to control their physical purchases, so maybe not.

 

[Minions]

I wonder how this will affect Steam. There was code found about game sharing among your friends list like Microsoft was planning. Wonder if they will still implement it or not.

 

[bearlabored]

Wow, completely incorrect. This takes like two seconds to check, spoilers: you don't. The hubris in this post is astounding.

Ignorance is bliss.

You need internet connection before you can go offline in steam.
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-agcb-2555

Many users have problems with actually staying offline for large amount of time.
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/828937979095845728/

 

[Quadraphonic]

It still amazes me how many people are caught up on a family plan that we knew practically nothing about. Could it have been awesome? Maybe, but with no real information to go on, what exactly was Microsoft expecting? I don't what it says MS thinks of the consumer, either they thought we were all idiots and would take the DRM restrictions with nary a peep, or they assumed that their fanbase were all geniuses that saw the world exactly as they did. Probably a little of both.

What's amazing is after the litany of terrible news NONSTOP for the last TWO MONTHS, that Xbox fans would have the ignorance to fill in the blanks on the 10-share with only positive beliefs is stunning and shows how desperate they were to embrace a loss of rights.

There was NO reason to believe this system was going to work as the fans advertised it to be. There were so many "what ifs" that it was never going to work. But they were so sold on buying an Xbox One, that they convinced themselves that all the "what ifs" worked to their own best interest even though there has been no evidence EVER to make them think that.

 

[ido]

Is the disc still install only, though?

Would I have to install every game I borrowed? That would really fucking suck and take forever.

 

[cicero]

It was going to be the greatest thing ever. But we ruined it. Microsoft's only mistake was that they cared too much in a cynical age.

This is so ridiculous it must either be blatant sarcasm or absolute truth in your mind. I sometimes have had a hard time measuring the levels of crazy in some written irrational but fervent beliefs.

 

[RebornYeti]

It's okay guys now we can share with infinity amounts of people. We win.

But now we have to physically give them a disc and we can't play it with them if we wanted to.

JK, but seriously that was an awesome benefit of the sharing system.

 

[kaching]

It still amazes me how many people are caught up on a family plan that we knew practically nothing about.

Not to mention it being a plan that MS was apparently willing to scrap for no apparent reason. It almost seems petulant.

 

[cicero]

I wonder how this will affect Steam. There was code found about game sharing among your friends list like Microsoft was planning. Wonder if they will still implement it or not.

They experiment all the time trying to find out what works best or why and how things work, I don't see why they wouldn't. It was never promised though, so I am not bothered either way.

 

[Shogmaster]

Fuck, I was really looking forward to the family sharing feature.

If I also have to swap discs to play different games like it's fucking 2005, then all you so called core gamer douchebags can die from chronic gonorrhea.

Fucking holding progress back like goddamn ass backward Republicans...

 

[MThanded]

This seems like a copout. Why can't the do family sharing for digital only purchases. Those are still single use purchases that could employ this.

 

[EatinOlives]

Fuck, I was really looking forward to the family sharing feature.

If I also have to swap discs to play different games like it's fucking 2005, then all you so called core gamer douchebags can die from chronic gonorrhea.

Fucking holding progress back like goddamn ass backward Republicans...

Shogmaster
Not genuinely interested in rational debate.
(Today, 11:32 PM)

As was said before, all this crying over a feature we barely knew about. Where was all this Family Plan rah rah when the PS3 let you gameshare with up to 5 devices? Let's not pretend like this was an innovative wave of the future that has never been seen before.

 

[King Tubby]

Fuck, I was really looking forward to the family sharing feature.

If I also have to swap discs to play different games like it's fucking 2005, then all you so called core gamer douchebags can die from chronic gonorrhea.

Uh, you don't have to. Just buy digital like Microsoft wants you to. If you're mad about the family sharing feature, blame MS. There's no reason whatsoever they can't institute it for digital only titles.

 

[travisbickle]

Fuck, I was really looking forward to the family sharing feature.

If I also have to swap discs to play different games like it's fucking 2005, then all you so called core gamer douchebags can die from chronic gonorrhea.

Fucking holding progress back like goddamn ass backward Republicans...

Buy digital, no more disc swapping.

Then petition MS to bring back family sharing for digital titles, considering that's the reason they had it in the first place it shouldn't be difficult. May I suggest a Twitter campaign.

 

[ido]

Fuck, I was really looking forward to the family sharing feature.

If I also have to swap discs to play different games like it's fucking 2005, then all you so called core gamer douchebags can die from chronic gonorrhea.

Fucking holding progress back like goddamn ass backward Republicans...

I'm going to assume you are serious.

The issue was about ownership rights, and whether or not the consumer truly owned their copy. The family sharing feature was something Microsoft was going to ALLOW the consumer to do while stripping away every other positive reason to purchase a physical disc.

 

[xenoflux2113]

Fuck, I was really looking forward to the family sharing feature.

If I also have to swap discs to play different games like it's fucking 2005, then all you so called core gamer douchebags can die from chronic gonorrhea.

Fucking holding progress back like goddamn ass backward Republicans...

Great thing though, you don't. You can still buy digital and download the game and never have to use the tray. I personally am happy to "hold back progress" for my consumer rights.

 

[Playsation_]

Wait, I came to the impression that this "family sharing plan" was very limited.
I've seen a few interviews on it.
You can only play the singleplayer portion of the game, and can't play mulitplayer, and only one person at a time can play it (the one's you're sharing it with).
If true, then that's no different from game demos, or "try before you buy".

Am I missing something here? That's how I understood it. In that case, this Family Share plan isn't all that special.

 

[tafer]

This is so ridiculous it must either be blatant sarcasm or absolute truth in your mind. I sometimes have had a hard time measuring the levels of crazy in some written irrational but fervent beliefs.

That was a sarcasm without doubt, but I have to admit that this thread is becoming some sort of text book of Poe's law.

 

[beastworship]

Wait, I came to the impression that this "family sharing plan" was very limited.
I've seen a few interviews on it.
You can only play the singleplayer portion of the game, and can't play mulitplayer, and only one person at a time can play it (the one's you're sharing it with).
If true, then that's no different from game demos, or "try before you buy".

Am I missing something here? That's how I understood it. In that case, this Family Share plan isn't all that special.

I think you nailed it, but people have creative imaginations and tend to make up things beyond what they are. It maybe something more but everything I've read sounds like a glorified demo.

 

[Windu]

Wait, I came to the impression that this "family sharing plan" was very limited.
I've seen a few interviews on it.
You can only play the singleplayer portion of the game, and can't play mulitplayer, and only one person at a time can play it (the one's you're sharing it with).
If true, then that's no different from game demos, or "try before you buy".

Am I missing something here? That's how I understood it. In that case, this Family Share plan isn't all that special.

Unlike game demos, you could play the entire game.

 

[travisbickle]

Wait, I came to the impression that this "family sharing plan" was very limited.
I've seen a few interviews on it.
You can only play the singleplayer portion of the game, and can't play mulitplayer, and only one person at a time can play it (the one's you're sharing it with).
If true, then that's no different from game demos, or "try before you buy".

Am I missing something here? That's how I understood it. In that case, this Family Share plan isn't all that special.

It was all made up on the spot. There has been literally four and a half weeks since the announcement of the One. The family plan was not announced at the launch, but raised and dropped halfway between announcement and now.

Do you believe a workable system was in place that MS couldn't actually explain? and then dropped so easily?

 

[Averon]

Oh, so in other words people are projecting their most optimistic fantasies onto an ambiguous policy from the same company that was also responsible for the DRM equivalent of sticking all of their customers heads in a vise?

Nailed it. Really, why would the publishers allow this to pass when they wouldn't let Sony do it? This entire thing was a rushed, ill-thought out reaction to the horrible PR they were experiencing. The fact that NO exec could explain it clearly and concisely, and they'll repeatedly say different things about the plan day-to-day, should be proof enough that the family plan was a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[Playsation_]

Fuck, I was really looking forward to the family sharing feature.

If I also have to swap discs to play different games like it's fucking 2005, then all you so called core gamer douchebags can die from chronic gonorrhea.

Fucking holding progress back like goddamn ass backward Republicans...

All games that are in retail stores will also be on Online PSN and XBL. You don't have to touch a physical copy ever again if you don't want.

 

[beastworship]

Unlike game demos, you could play the entire game.

is there any real evidence of this though? there's some whimpers from microsoft after the fact but otherwise it appears to be speculative unpacking from their initial statement.

 

[ReBurn]

I didn't have 10 friends to begin with.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Wait, I came to the impression that this "family sharing plan" was very limited.
I've seen a few interviews on it.
You can only play the singleplayer portion of the game, and can't play mulitplayer, and only one person at a time can play it (the one's you're sharing it with).
If true, then that's no different from game demos, or "try before you buy".

Am I missing something here? That's how I understood it. In that case, this Family Share plan isn't all that special.

The easiest way to explain it is just imagine it being like physical discs in digital form. Only one person can have access to the full game at any given time outside of the primary owner.

 

[EatinOlives]

is there any real evidence of this though? there's some whimpers from microsoft after the fact but otherwise it appears to be speculative unpacking from their initial statement.

You're correct. It was intentionally kept ambiguous because the details were left out.

Remember when Microsoft said something to the effect of "we're putting together a system for folks in the military getting consoles that are exempt from these policies"? When they revisited the conversation a few days ago they said "yeah, fuck that".

All of these details were being made up. The Family Share plan thing was trotted out the past few days as a desperate attempt at damage control. It's sad that so many people not only bought into the dupe but are actually genuinely pissed that the mess of a DRM system is gone because a fantasy sharing feature that was in no way fleshed out is gone. Are people really that easy to please?

 

[Windu]

is there any real evidence of this though? there's some whimpers from microsoft after the fact but otherwise it appears to be speculative unpacking from their initial statement.

They never said there was a time limit.

Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

 

[jagowar]

I have to imagine this will come back before this console generation is done... the code and services are already there.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

This could have been really neat. You and say, 3 friends want Titanfall. So, you four chip in. Bam! That $60 game just became a $15 that all four of you can enjoy.

Could have meant cheaper games in a way.

Oh well.

yeah. :I

 

[indubitably]

I clearly felt the benefits (family sharing, instant access anywhere, not swapping discs) outweighed the negatives (24 hour check-in, complicated used sell).

That's much better than steam imo.

I'm on the same boat as you and I feel like most people in this day and age would have actually had a better experience with the proposed changes. Internet mob mentality handily prevented any possibility of innovation. It sucks that Microsoft is getting bashed for trying to make this the last console you will ever have to buy while Sony is praised for repressing the evolution of entertainment.

 

[Spasm]

They never said there was a time limit.
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Incidentally, that was posted nearly a week before E3. The same time they posted their DRM rules, iirc. This feature was not an attempt at damage control after the backlash. It was there from the beginning. It was just... missing a lot of important details.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Serious question. If you and 4 friends chip in for Titanfall, how the eff is anyone gonna get a chance to play it? You cant play it at the SAME time. Its gonna be like piranhas trying to get dibs on it over 4 friends...

Or what? you're gonna take 20 minute turns? Id rather just go out and buy a copy so I dont have to deal with that shit.

 

[travisbickle]

I'm on the same boat as you and I feel like most people in this day and age would have actually had a better experience with the proposed changes. Internet mob mentality handily prevented any possibility of innovation. It sucks that Microsoft is getting bashed for trying to make this the last console you will ever have to buy while Sony is praised for repressing the evolution of entertainment.

Why don't you push MS to provide this service for consumers willing to tie their game purchases to the console?

 

[Windu]

Serious question. If you and 4 friends chip in for Titanfall, how the eff is anyone gonna get a chance to play it? You cant play it at the SAME time. Its gonna be like piranhas trying to get dibs on it over 4 friends...

Or what? you're gonna take 20 minute turns? Id rather just go out and buy a copy so I dont have to deal with that shit.

Yeah multiplayer games would require each player to have their own copy.

 

[PeskyToaster]

I laugh every time I see that Sony slide proudly proclaiming their physical disc based system, how backwards. Now a bunch of loud mouths ruined something for the rest of us that were actually excited about innovation with restrictions that didn't matter. We traded a library-wide family sharing plan for used games 5 dollars cheaper than new and checking in your box once every 24 hours when it's already always connected to the Internet. Stop dragging the rest of us behind.

 

[indubitably]

Why don't you push MS to provide this service for consumers willing to tie their game purchases to the console?

Well that would complicate things because once you save your disc to your account, you could give it to someone to play on another xbox offline. The overall goal is to not have a single copy clone itself.

 

[NullPointer]

We traded a library-wide family sharing plan ...

Vapor and rainbows and unicorns.

So why didn't we get the full breakdown in detail of this family plan before MS turned the entire ship around? Why did they want us to hear the full story of the reveal + e3 games but not this?

 

[bishopcruz]

I'm on the same boat as you and I feel like most people in this day and age would have actually had a better experience with the proposed changes. Internet mob mentality handily prevented any possibility of innovation. It sucks that Microsoft is getting bashed for trying to make this the last console you will ever have to buy while Sony is praised for repressing the evolution of entertainment.

you're welcome.

Last console you'll ever have to buy? Are you serious?

I still have no idea where this blind faith comes from. And I preferred 360 for the bulk of this gen.

And possibility of innovation? Microsoft gave us no real info. So all we were left with was 'possibilities' that didn't look too good.

 

[EatinOlives]

yeah. :I

I'm sorry but there was no way that was ever going to happen. You do know this whole thing was a cheap ploy to eliminate people renting games on Redbox/Blockbuster/Gamefly and to eat into GameStop's profits, right? Why would they actively let you get games for essentially $15 on release? That's even more "lost revenue" than used games.

 

[malboroking]

Fuck, I was really looking forward to the family sharing feature.

If I also have to swap discs to play different games like it's fucking 2005, then all you so called core gamer douchebags can die from chronic gonorrhea.

Fucking holding progress back like goddamn ass backward Republicans...

Wow

Just buy digital if you don't want to switch your discs.

 

[bishopcruz]

Incidentally, that was posted nearly a week before E3. The same time they posted their DRM rules, iirc. This feature was not an attempt at damage control after the backlash. It was there from the beginning. It was just... missing a lot of important details.

Yeah, the devil was in those details though, and we never got them. Horrible PR strategy all around.

 

[hoos30]

Where have all these supporters been the last few weeks? Afraid of being called shills??

Afraid of getting banned, actually. It has been that bad around here.

 

[Windu]

Vapor and rainbows and unicorns.

So why didn't we get the full breakdown in detail of this family plan before MS turned the entire ship around? Why did they want us to hear the full story of the reveal + e3 games but not this?

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license. ? seems clear to me. Can share out your game, you can always play and one of your family members can play a game too.

 

[SRTtoZ]

For a multi billion dollar company it was probably the worst strategy ive ever seen in every respect (marketing/PR/research etc)