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[shinra-bansho]

Were 100% of the features sorted out? No.

Was a fairly concrete plan being sold to the audience? Yes.

It wasn't a "concrete plan"; I followed the various threads on GAF. It was a very vague idea with a vague policy note that PR people and executives kept confusing and/or contradicting.

Announced as ten people - called a family sharing plan in confusion with their new family Gold.
You can share with anybody.
Is there a wait time on friends being friends.
Is there a wait time on sharing.
Only two people could play at the same time.
You could play the same game.
You couldn't play the same game, only the same library.
You could play the same game, but only split screen.
You could play the same game, but only single player.
Everyone can play a different single player game.
Will it cost money, won't it cost money.
Will it be region locked.
Is it publisher dependent.

It was quite clearly something they devised between their reveal and E3 and put out in response to reaction. And then began talking up as pretty much the only positive they could come up with after E3 when reaction was pretty uniformly negative.

 

[bj00rn_]

I just don't get why they can't make it so Digitally-downloaded games behave as before the backpedal move (sharing, re-selling...), AND still offer the option of having the Xbox360 behavior. You just need to have the option of choosing which of those two types of games you are buying.

That would be a good solution. How feasible it is to have two routes I don't know.

 

[NullPointer]

You cant have your cake and eat it to.

We can now.

And whats the point of cake if you can't eat it?

And an aside: People have choice now, between physical and digital, each with their own set of rules as befits their nature. Is the choice being made available that upsetting to people?

 

[fizzgigg]

They dont get my sympathy because they caved it.
If they were trying to change a market they should of stuck with it and let people
flock to them not conform to what Sony is doing.
I think some of the ideas were good ideas that they had but remember $100 for kinect which in all honesty I play video games for video games not to move around my small room.
I also dont pay for cable.

 

[Kintaro]

This could have been really neat. You and say, 3 friends want Titanfall. So, you four chip in. Bam! That $60 game just became a $15 that all four of you can enjoy.

Could have meant cheaper games in a way.

Oh well.

 

[Moral Panic]

I just don't get why they can't make it so Digitally-downloaded games behave as before the backpedal move (sharing, re-selling...), AND still offer the option of having the Xbox360 behavior. You just need to have the option of choosing which of those two types of games you are buying.



And then, that WOULD BE the best of both worlds, not this. Seriously, Microsoft, is not that hard.

No need to be pointing fingers to consumers saying "This is what you wanted". What consumers wanted, and will always want, is to have the freaking option to choose what's best for them. Period.

Your measure makes it possible to write things to the disk. Think about that for a second. You now need a BR writer, as well as special disks that have a small section writable, AND you need security features to make sure that people don't write to it themselves.

Not a feasible idea at all.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

How is it any different than you loaning your disc to ten friends?

You don't see the logistical difference in being able to instantly share games with anyone anywhere versus actually having to be at the same physical location to transfer the disc?

 

[NullPointer]

Did anybody here truly KNOW how the family sharing was going to work?

Seemed like smoke and mirrors to me.

 

[BY2K]

This isn't just a GAF victory, this isn't just an Internet victory, it's a consumer victory.

Gentlemen, we've been great.

 

[njean777]

So you think Microsoft just came up with the feature, wrote up a policy document and advertised it without ever talking to publishers? Really? Like really?

They killed game sharing on psn. We have already seen how history dealt with this problem. History does what again? Oh yeah it repeats itself over and fucking over again.

Did anybody here truly KNOW how the family sharing was going to work?

Seemed like smoke and mirrors to me.

No, but many people think they do, it pure delusion at this point. We saw how game sharing was dealt with on PSN but many think that it would be a-ok this time.

 

[Kite]

On gaf and reddit there is a Gamestop b*tchfest every other day, but in the end gamers sure do love dat generous $5 credit Gamestop gives them on the trade in. Welcome back to being on their leash, thanks gamers!

idiots

 

[Freshmaker]

How would that affect publishers? Genuine question.

One person buys a game. They can automatically distribute their purchase to 10 other people.

9 sales lost.

 

[cicero]

For me it was. Good for you if you appreciate that the next generation model will be exactly like the current one. I don't. And I especially don't appreciate how a proposition of something new got torn down by public opinion alone (based on incomplete information, even). I'd rather have watched MS go on with their plan and fail, than witness the current situation. It's very sad indeed.

So you do not want public opinion to sway public companies, despite ANYTHING they are doing which might rightfully engender a backlash? Nothing they could have done would warrant a response? Or is it just related to this situation alone with MS specifically?

I like that this caused them to change. Nobody I personally knew that I had talked to was going to buy an Xbox One because of their ridiculous plans. That you planned on buying one and looked forward to this specifically really doesn't have much to do with the very large amount of people who viewed the vaguely stated plans by MS in a hugely disfavorable light. There is a reason why there was a backlash and why it was so large, and certainly why MS is now taking the publicly humiliating PR move to announce complete changes to their entire plans for the console. You planned on getting an Xbox One regardless, too bad, I guess.

 

[mrklaw]

The silver lining is that MS don't have to explain how exactly this would have worked. I'm still skeptical that it would have survive end intact for very long

 

[C.Dark.DN]

It was just an illusion. So many questions.

 

[njean777]

On gaf and reddit there is a Gamestop b*tchfest every other day, but in the end gamers sure do love dat generous $5 credit Gamestop gives them on the trade in. Welcome back to being on their leash, thanks gamers!

idiots

Dont have to use gamestop, argument is null.

 

[Hayama Akito]

Meh, i prefer this over DRM.

 

[Steroyd]

For those of us that never trade in games and don't buy used games it isn't. Family sharing would've allowed you to share with 10 people almost simultaneously, sure only two people could play at once but when one of those jumps off another jumps on straight away without having to worry about where the disk is. It would've been so much easier than it is now but people can't deal with change so now we're stuck in 2005. Thanks internet.

I see this type of comment since the announcement and I don't get it, they could still theoretically still do this for digitally downloaded games, Sony has the basic infrastructure to pull it off on the PS3 even.

 

[devilhawk]

Oh, so in other words people are projecting their most optimistic fantasies onto an ambiguous policy from the same company that was also responsible for the DRM equivalent of sticking all of their customers heads in a vise?

Pretty much. Even the most optimistic and liberal policy would not have allowed multiple people to play the same game online at the same time.

 

[Moral Panic]

Did anybody here truly KNOW how the family sharing was going to work?

Seemed like smoke and mirrors to me.

Because a feature wasn't 100% clear 6 months before launch doesn't make it smoke and mirrors.

No one truly knows how much RAM is used by PS4 OS, No one knows how many cores are locked, or how much gfx performance is taken or any deep feature that we'll know at launch. Do we know whether we can use twitch tv for streaming? Do we know how exactly that will work?

It's still a bit till launch, the feature as advertised was very, very good. Now it's probably dead.

It's OK if your fine with the tradeoff for no DRM. Just don't pretend it isn't a tradeoff.

 

[Bgamer90]

Yeah, I was actually looking forward to this. Now that it's removed, it's going to be harder to go digital. Very hard.

 

[GQman2121]

This isn't just a GAF victory, this isn't just an Internet victory, it's a consumer victory.

Gentlemen, we've been great.

Women deserve credit too!

It's a victory for gaming humanity!!

 

[Izayoi]

On gaf and reddit there is a Gamestop b*tchfest every other day, but in the end gamers sure do love dat generous $5 credit Gamestop gives them on the trade in. Welcome back to being on their leash, thanks gamers!

idiots

Yeah, craigslist, half.com, Amazon, and eBay don't exist. I forgot!

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

On gaf and reddit there is a Gamestop b*tchfest every other day, but in the end gamers sure do love dat generous $5 credit Gamestop gives them on the trade in. Welcome back to being on their leash, thanks gamers!

idiots

Ah, man if only there was an alternative outlet for somebody looking to resell their games.

Ah well, I guess its just a pipe dream.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Most in here are sad that their "family share plan" is now not subsidized games for them

I mean most in the announcement thread were like COD = $60 with 10 people = $6 per person buy-in, so awesome...

Yet they forget, they never said all 10 can play at the same time, SP or MP, that you would gain access, how we never know
That the purchaser = Master, everyone else would be a slave to the library

There's a reason Sony dropped 5 Game-shares down to 2 for PS3, PSP, Vita and most likely PS4, it was the publishers who saw games sold in the thousands yet have tens of thousands on their servers/leaderboards, they aren't stupid

On gaf and reddit there is a Gamestop b*tchfest every other day, but in the end gamers sure do love dat generous $5 credit Gamestop gives them on the trade in. Welcome back to being on their leash, thanks gamers!

idiots

Yeah because Gamestop is the only entity in the whole fucking world that deals in second hand sales, Child Please!

Who's the fucking idiot now?

 

[crazygambit]

This could have been really neat. You and say, 3 friends want Titanfall. So, you four chip in. Bam! That $60 game just became a $15 that all four of you can enjoy.

Could have meant cheaper games in a way.

Oh well.

Let's not kid ourselves. It was never gonna work that way.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

 

[Marty Chinn]

You don't see the logistical difference in being able to instantly share games with anyone anywhere versus actually having to be at the same physical location to transfer the disc?

I see it as being easier to the consumer, but the realistic end result is if someone lends the physical game to 10 friends, or each of the 10 friends takes turns playing a digital instance of a game, the end result is the same. Ten people didn't buy the game because they were lent a copy.

 

[mrklaw]

The 24 hours checks were to ensure it couldn't be exploited - so without that safety precaution, no family sharing...its pretty simple really. Some of us really looked forward to that feature and didn't care about DRM issues.

I thought about making it optional, but I think its just to messy to implement.

They could make it optional but not without at least authorising the disc at first install. To be entirely offline they need the disc

It is a shame really

 

[njean777]

Most in here are sad that their "family share plan" is now not subsidized games for them

I mean most in the announcement thread were like COD = $60 with 10 people = $6 per person buy-in, so awesome...

Yet they forget, they never said all 10 can play at the same time, SP or MP, that you would gain access, how we never know
That the purchaser = Master, everyone else would be a slave to the library

There's a reason Sony dropped 5 Game-shares down to 2 for PS3, PSP, Vita and most likely PS4, it was the publishers who saw games sold in the thousands yet have tens of thousands on their servers/leaderboards, they aren't stupid

Exactly, we saw this before and it was killed really quickly. This fabled "sharing plan" most likely would have been crap or killed off by publishers.

 

[Alx]

So you do not want public opinion to sway public companies, despite ANYTHING they are doing which might rightfully engender a backlash? Nothing they could have done would warrant a response? Or is it just related to this situation alone with MS specifically?

I like that this caused them to change.

They didn't change. They didn't improve on the system they were trying to build. They just went back. The whole announcement is "it's just like on 360 now". Is that progress ? Is that innovation ? Those are usually obtained by trying new things, sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing. The current situation is not one of those, it's someone offering to do something new and everybody else telling him "stop right now, we don't want you to try, just leave things as they are".

 

[shinra-bansho]

the feature as advertised was very, very good. Now it's probably dead.

It's OK if your fine with the tradeoff for no DRM. Just don't pretend it isn't a tradeoff.

If they really wanted to implement this, and had a well-thought out way to do it that wouldn't result in reduced revenue for publishing partners (which they clearly didn't) they still could do this for digital libraries. But they won't. Because this wasn't the purpose of the DRM, pretending it was the purpose of the DRM is disingenuous, and they quite clearly didn't have a sound plan when they couldn't even consistently articulate it.

You can already share digital games on the PS3.

Yeah, I was actually looking forward to this. Now that it's removed, it's going to be harder to go digital. Very hard.

I assume now you're getting a PS4, since all your comments indicated your decision prior hinged on this plan.

 

[GQman2121]

On gaf and reddit there is a Gamestop b*tchfest every other day, but in the end gamers sure do love dat generous $5 credit Gamestop gives them on the trade in. Welcome back to being on their leash, thanks gamers!

idiots

Come say that shit in here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506332

 

[erawsd]

This would be the time for Sony to outline the new Playstation store guidelines where you can...

- Share with up to 10 Family members.
- Gift and trade games with friends.

Seriously, I'm confused as to why they had to kill it entirely. Seems to me they could still easily implement it on digital copies.

 

[Fresh Face]

Best feature? I think dedicated servers was the best feature.

Also, Microsoft didn't need to take this away. They could have made it optional like the plan I suggested a while ago.

 

[NullPointer]

Because a feature wasn't 100% clear 6 months before launch doesn't make it smoke and mirrors.

All we've heard about is the specter of used games. About how a game can be bought once, but then offered back up to several others who would've presumably bought the game new, and thus, lost sales, studios shut down, devs on the street, etc etc. We've been told that this DRM box was a necessary solution to that problem.

But then we start hearing about this family plan, and how it would enable you to buy a game once, and then share it with up to 10 others, who would, presumably, share your copy rather than buying new.

So how does any of this make sense? How do you solve the used games problem AND have family sharing?

Its just another contradiction in the Xbone's messaging.

 

[cicero]

On gaf and reddit there is a Gamestop b*tchfest every other day, but in the end gamers sure do love dat generous $5 credit Gamestop gives them on the trade in. Welcome back to being on their leash, thanks gamers!

idiots

Because what MS proposed WASN'T being on a leash? You are either laughably ignorant or self-deluded.

 

[inky]

On gaf and reddit there is a Gamestop b*tchfest every other day, but in the end gamers sure do love dat generous $5 credit Gamestop gives them on the trade in. Welcome back to being on their leash, thanks gamers!

idiots

There's no Gamestop where I live. What now?

Idiot.

 

[reddmyst]

To get around this and implement a Family Plan, they should make digital download copies of games shareable.

 

[BillyBats]

XB1 no longer does the things it was promised to do. Whether you liked it or not Xbone had benefits that no other console had, now all those are gone. You are just left with a weaker, more expensive PS4.

I'm almost in that camp now. I was excited about the new places MS was potentially going with this. All digital, required online, family sharing etc. I don't want an updated console with better graphics. MS seemed to be pushing the envelope, breaking some eggs. Now, it seems boring again. Look at the PS4 threads, they're talking about the xbox one. Now, MS is just another box that we can compare frame rates to see if the dog's tongue in COD has less bumps on it than the PS 4 version. Fuck! That's the thing, MS could have been that experiment. We know we have the PS4 for games, MS could have been the test to see what could work and what couldn't work for the future of gaming. Dammit, we didn't even let them try to see if it could work or not. A potentially neat future was right there, now it's become a bit stagnant. I'll buy both of these machines regardless (and maybe a wii u down the line) but I LOVED the mystery and weird questions associated with MS.

 

[StUnNeR H2K]

This is an unfortunate loss, but my guess is MS goes back to the drawing board and will eventually return this feature for those who buy digital copies only.

Who knows... maybe they will do what films are doing now when you buy a movie that includes a digital copy also for a little extra cost. Share the digital copy with family, sale the hard copy back to GameStop or someone who can't play online...

 

[Kite]

Dont have to use gamestop, argument is null.

Many if not most gamers trade their stuff in to gamestop, that is how they got to their current bloated unnatural size. Now all the gamers who are too lazy or don't know how to sell on amazon or craigslist are back being GS's useful idiots.

I can't believe my friends and I were the only ones who saw the potential for this family plan. Those awesome single player experiences but no real MP component are generally skipped by us (or obtained by err not very legal means) because paying even $35 for a used copy for a 6 hour SP experience is insane when we pay $15/mo for WoW and $50 for the Orange Box 3 years ago and I still play TF2 almost every day.

 

[iammeiam]

Most in here are sad that their "family share plan" is now not subsidized games for them

I mean most in the announcement thread were like COD = $60 with 10 people = $6 per person buy-in, so awesome...

Yet they forget, they never said all 10 can play at the same time, SP or MP, that you would gain access, how we never know
That the purchaser = Master, everyone else would be a slave to the library

They explicitly said one person at a time plus the owner. And for many of us who regret the loss of the potential policy, that was enough. It was different and interesting and potentially a clusterfuck but potentially also THE FUTURE. gamble, but an interesting one.

Now next gen is a shinier version of this gen on both consoles. Which is awesome for those that campaigned for it, but less awesome for people that wanted to take a risk on something new.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Exactly, we saw this before and it was killed really quickly. This fabled "sharing plan" most likely would have been crap or killed off by publishers.

Do you realize you can still profit off Sony PS3 Gamesharing

You can have 4 activations going

There are gaming forums and groups of friends that buy 1 game for $60 and already enjoy the benefits this Xbone Family Share plan was suppose to offer, THEY GET TO PLAY THE GAME AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME
4 people!

One account = host
2 people buy the game @1/3rd the price, the other 2 @1/6th the price

So a $60 game goes from $60 for 1 person to 2 $20, 2 $10

The 2 $10 are called phantoms, they get access to account, DL game, then they remove info/pw, never getting into account again
Host resets 6 month activation, the 2 $20 use account, they can even resell the account to their hearts desire, if they are smart 6 months down the line do phantom reset and repeat process and make profit of $20 and create 2 new phantoms

With Ni no Kuni, I got it for $4.70 due to EU PSN sale, I was a phantom!

 

[Doffen]

Cant be playing at same time..

Will I be able to do that now?

 

[Alucrid]

Do you realize you can still profit off Sony PS3 Gamesharing

You can have 4 activations going

There are gaming forums and groups of friends that buy 1 game for $60 and already enjoy the benefits this Xbone Family Share plan was suppose to offer, THEY GET TO PLAY THE GAME AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME
4 people!

One account = host
2 people buy the game @1/3rd the price, the other 2 @1/6th the price

So a $60 game goes from $60 for 1 person to 2 $20, 2 $10

The 2 $10 are called phantoms, they get access to account, DL game, then they remove info/pw, never getting into account again
Host resets 6 month activation, they 2 $20 use account they can resell the account to their hearts desire, if they are smart 6 months down the line do phantom reset and repeat process and make profit!

seems over complex to just save a few bucks. would just rather buy the fucking game outright. i mean, who are these penny pinchers that even do this?

 

[cicero]

They didn't change. They didn't improve on the system they were trying to build. They just went back. The whole announcement is "it's just like on 360 now". Is that progress ? Is that innovation ? Those are usually obtained by trying new things, sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing. The current situation is not one of those, it's someone offering to do something new and everybody else telling him "stop right now, we don't want you to try, just leave things as they are".

The huge public backlash already suggested massive failure. Why would they continue to go down the same road if they knew it was more likely to fail than not? Not to mention the simple fact that all progress is not inherently positive. The newness of something doesn't inherently give it increased merit. Increased draconian DRM schemes aren't a superior plan to enable gamers to play games better than they did before. The 360 was a step UP from what they planned for the Xbox One. You just want to view what MS had planned in a positive light because you obviously could care less about losing access and control to what you purchase. MS's draconian DRM wasn't draconian for you. MS held out a pile of crap and called it a carrot, and you lunged for it completely.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I see it as being easier to the consumer, but the realistic end result is if someone lends the physical game to 10 friends, or each of the 10 friends takes turns playing a digital instance of a game, the end result is the same. Ten people didn't buy the game because they were lent a copy.

Yeah, but I think that convenience made it far more likely that ten people might indeed play that one copy. If it was anywhere near as awesome as people hoped, we could either all share the same copy simultaneously, or pseudo-simultaneously via minor accommodations to each other's schedules. That's a far cry from the current system where -- unless you see the person every day, trading discs is going to be a nuisance.

"No, I'm not ready to lend/give the game back. I'm still playing it."

 

[GraveRobberX]

seems over complex to just save a few bucks. would just rather buy the fucking game outright. i mean, who are these penny pinches that even do this?

Would you rather buy TLOU for $60 digital

Or $20 that you can sell your digital account to others, who will buy the game and continue the resell process and the longer time goes the price drops

or

If $10, Install the game and have on your HDD forever, unless you get YLOD or HDD/Firmware fuckup

___________________________________

Saints Row The Third Full Package German Edition would have cost me $66
With Gameshare, I took a phantom, it cost me $11, and I platinumed the fucker ASAP and deleted off my HDD, it was well worth it, saving $55 FUCKING DOLLARS!

 

[IMGF]

So does this mean Steam will be the only service that will do this, or will Steam kill that feature off too?