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MS teasing XNA successor for Build 2013 Day 2 keynote. (it's Unity)
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
rohlfinator
Member
Is something like XNA really even needed anymore? I feel like they'd be better off supporting the existing multiplatform alternatives (MonoGame, Unity, Game Maker, etc), unless they're bringing something new to the table.
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'd like to see something like a 2D Unity -- a dedicated, multiplatform 2D engine with great tools and lots of built-in functionality. They could grab my attention with something like that, although I can't see Microsoft making something like that truly multiplatform.
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'd like to see something like a 2D Unity -- a dedicated, multiplatform 2D engine with great tools and lots of built-in functionality. They could grab my attention with something like that, although I can't see Microsoft making something like that truly multiplatform.
There is a session about Unity at this year's Build.
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/3-044
Which is why it appeals to me more personally.
Spark more in depth than I what I have seen? Pretty big jump between that and Unity or something else, right?
RadarScope1
Member
After all the first-hand accounts from indie devs about terrible MS is to work with, will people will care? I know that was mainly about MS as a publisher but still. Overall, they shown they don't care anymore, unless you're Mojang and can sell millions of copies.
Just thinking : isn't there HyperV running on XboxOne? It should be possible to deploy a normal PC game if there is a "normal" windows VM, right? Question is if this VM is able to access all the HW power.
I mean, this goes in line with the session about getting Desktop programs into the Windows store. If MS provides a way where you can easily publish your non-metro applications on the AppStore without a hassle and available for phone,tablets,PC and Xbone... That would be huge.
Edit: remember that LaunchWorks patent and domains from MS...
I mean, this goes in line with the session about getting Desktop programs into the Windows store. If MS provides a way where you can easily publish your non-metro applications on the AppStore without a hassle and available for phone,tablets,PC and Xbone... That would be huge.
Edit: remember that LaunchWorks patent and domains from MS...
LukasTaves
Member
If that's only that I will be depressed XD Even though they are not official there are already .net Dx wrappers that work with WinRT...
Ms now doesn't need to restrict the entire development on .net because now they have tools and workforce to guarantee security even with native code.
I really hope that they follow the framework and store of windows 8 on xbox one. That would still be great for .net developers because you can work with .net for apps and games on Winrt too!
What I meant was: Beginners who doesn't know how a gam works or how to code will most likely get a lot more work done when using spark...
Developers that already know how to produce a game, can use more powerful and performant tools directly within the WinRT framework.
So xna, that used to sit in the middle is not needed, because they have now something that has a lower barrier, and something that has more capabilities.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
Even if they announce it now, devs would just now get to start making their games for xbone.
It should have been unveiled well before launch, or at least floated to developers. I think they'll still want to push for indies to let MS publish. They're all about making their platform look better.
It should have been unveiled well before launch, or at least floated to developers. I think they'll still want to push for indies to let MS publish. They're all about making their platform look better.
Monty Mole
Member
Bring back AMOS!
MusicGangATL
Banned
if theres a unity announcement in an xna type infrastructure. lights out. im in.
Tiu Neo
Member
I kinda doubt it's something like XNA. Even if it is, that would be a bit too late, since a lot of people moved from XNA to Unity or Monogame. Anyway, if it's good, people will use it.
I'm betting on Windows 8 Store Apps work on Xbone, everything on WinRT works (so you can use SharpDX, Monogame and so on), and you can self publish there.
I'm betting on Windows 8 Store Apps work on Xbone, everything on WinRT works (so you can use SharpDX, Monogame and so on), and you can self publish there.
rohlfinator
Member
Yeah, if they're already supporting it on Win8 it seems like a no-brainer. At this point Unity is big enough that I'd be more surprised if any consoles didn't support it.
Spark seems extremely limited though. It seems more like an educational tool than a serious development tool. There's still plenty of room for "middle-ground" tools, since people have varying skills/resources.
The real reason XNA is unneeded IMO is that MonoGame exists. If MS brings back XNA, they'd have to do something that the open source community can't easily do with MonoGame.
I understood the point you were making, but there is a big difference between someone who can't code whatsoever and developers that would need something more powerful than xna, no? At least I am someone who would fit into that category.
That would be good for me. I really like .NET and languages like C#.
But I'm still hopeful they announce self publishing for the Xbox One and not just changes/additions to frameworks.
I also hope that they don't tie self publishing for games written to a specific language, framework or engine.
The problem is who would trust MS with a new system like XNA, when a developer knows an engine like Unity3D supports all systems and will never go out of support
As someone that invested in XNA a lot, i see it as crazy to even think of using MS next indie system, unless it offers something so huge that makes an unbelivable difference to Unity
Which i doubt will be the case
MmmSkyscraper
Unconfirmed Member
Nostalgia-ton!
I'm not that familar with the APIs and Frameworks provided by MS - Let's say I want to build a Windows8 Xbox branded game for the Windows Store - I have to stick to .NET, right? Does that mean I can't use DX for these games?
Yeah, the positive thing is given they've branched out with what they support in the Windows Store, it's surely a shoe-in that they'll carry all that support over to the Xbox as well... Otherwise why bother with jumping through all the hoops to get multiple OSes running in tandem if not to gain that kind of interoperability.
Looks like you can use a few different things for the store in general; JavaScript with HTML/CSS, C#, Visual Basic, or C++ with XAML and C++ with DirectX
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/apps/bg125376
But I don't know if there are special requirements for being Xbox branded, or if all games are if they're published in the store.
famousmortimer
Banned
It's going to be on the windows 8 kernel only. I don't imagine most indie developers are going to be too happy with it.
Monty Mole
Member
On the flip-side, does this mean they won't have to port their games from W8 to Xbox One? Will they make a game for the W8 kernel and it'll run on both without any real additional work? Or is that a little too optimistic?
Unity Pro is still pretty expensive tho and you can't publish without a license. As someone with a steady job and nothing but a curious interest for (solo) indie gamedevelopment, this drives me away from Unity. I'm not dropping a months salary on a developmentpackage I'm only going to use for a hobby. Not when there's free alternatives.
Monogame, which is just an opensource implementation of XNA, looks interesting tho. MS would be wise to go the OS-route and have some sort of audit/shitfilter for their actual Store.
You mean publish to consoles or publish in general? You can certainly release on PC without a pro license.
I'm torn on the Windows Store idea. From one side, it would be open to anyone and MS finally added support to IAP with Windows 8.1. On the other side, Windows Store games wouldn't have access to all the resources "real" games can get and will need to compete with other multitasking apps for resources, which would be a problem for companies like Frozen Bytes: if they make a gorgeous-looking PS4 game it'll need a massive downgrade in order to run on the XBone.
Talking about the Store, how is MS going to handle the selling of apps and "real" games anyway? A single store? Two stores (an Xbox store and a Windows Store)?
Talking about the Store, how is MS going to handle the selling of apps and "real" games anyway? A single store? Two stores (an Xbox store and a Windows Store)?
MS no longer charges developers to patch Xbox 360 games+no more resubmission fees
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=605636
Coincidence?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=605636
Coincidence?
I don't see why they'd lock games into the app partition of Xbox One, if anything they are more likely to want you playing around in the game partition where presumably you can't access the core of the device.
It will be interesting to see what they've got today, to be honest at this point I think I'd rather see an app platform on Xbox one than a game one, I'd rather play my indie games on PC anyway, but apps on my console that don't have to be vetted & approved by MS? That would be the real next gen entertainment result.
It will be interesting to see what they've got today, to be honest at this point I think I'd rather see an app platform on Xbox one than a game one, I'd rather play my indie games on PC anyway, but apps on my console that don't have to be vetted & approved by MS? That would be the real next gen entertainment result.
The Windows Store is kind of borked right now becasue to be on the Windows 8 store you need to support both x86 and ARM, which means the Windows 8 store is filled with touch based games that have basic mouse and keyboard support, which means bigger games like Steam don't appear on there, which is probably what a PC games wants more.
What they need to do is allow for developers to determine better what will work on what. If you can tick "Xbox, PC" or "PC, Tablet" then those games would be tested and checked on all types.
Hmm, they seem to have changed some policies. I distinctly remember it saying you can't publish commercially without a license. You now seem to be able to for PC, Android and iOS
Keynote is about to begin in 5 minutes.
Watch it here: http://channel9.msdn.com/
Beware that there will a lot of talk about enterprise stuff.
Watch it here: http://channel9.msdn.com/
Beware that there will a lot of talk about enterprise stuff.
That actually makes perfect sense, the Windows 8 Store is very restrictive compared to regular Windows development. The same could be true of their Xbone environment - not having equal potential access to the hardware like regular Xbone games would be a potentially huge disadvantage to indie developers.
Tripolygon
Banned
This is what could happen, somewhat akin to PS Vita, PSN, and PSM
1. Self Publishing for Apps & Games that run on WinRT Framework across Win8 and Xbone that does not require low level access to hardware.
2. 3rd Party Publisher needed for Games that Run only on Xbone and require low level access to hardware.
1. Self Publishing for Apps & Games that run on WinRT Framework across Win8 and Xbone that does not require low level access to hardware.
2. 3rd Party Publisher needed for Games that Run only on Xbone and require low level access to hardware.
Dead Prince
Banned
Give them 3 business days.
This is NOT akin to PSN. The first point is similar to PSM, yes. The 2nd point has nothing to do with PSN. You can still self-publish to PSN (PS3/PS4/PSV). It's just not as trivial (i.e. app store) as PSM.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Ekim is taking you guys for a ride.
Don't blame the messenger.
Miles Quaritch
Member
It's Shaneus and PGR all over again.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Keynote still going.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Not happening it seems. There is nothing in VS13 suggesting a release for This SDK. The keynote for devs already entered boring mode; they are talking about Office 365 APIs.
I was confident Microsoft was going to announce a way for devs to publish on the X1 due to some rumors I heard last year, but maybe MS is way too busy finishing the X1 OS to the point they cannot offer a stable SDK at this point.
This will happen, rumors or not, it's the next logical step.
I was confident Microsoft was going to announce a way for devs to publish on the X1 due to some rumors I heard last year, but maybe MS is way too busy finishing the X1 OS to the point they cannot offer a stable SDK at this point.
This will happen, rumors or not, it's the next logical step.
infinityBCRT
Member
They will talk about Xbox at some point in this segment I think-- there was an Xbox controller on the main slide.
Monty Mole
Member
Why is everyone so scruffy on stage? Make an effort.
infinityBCRT
Member
because they are developers?
LukasTaves
Member
Fair enough, and WinRT covers those bases too. Even though it's not a official solution like XNA, you'll find direct wrappers for .net, and even monogame which is kinda of a xna port.
dragonelite
Member
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