Shadow Broker
Banned
Is there a great Neogeo RPG game that many don't know about?
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Neo Geo games coming to Nintendo Switch
- Thread starter yoonshik
- Start date
Metal Slug 2 is buggy as hell and was made obsolete by Metal Slug X which is a remastered version of 2 running on the Metal Slug 3 engine.
Some purists prefer 2 over X because of its slightly different boss layout and simpler weapon selection, but generally speaking if you are a newcomer to the Metal Slug series you should just skip 2 and consider X the "real" 2.
Agent Unknown
Member
Ah ok, thanks for the info.
Hey guys, I want to get the best ratio/display settings for KOF 98 on my 1080p TV. Is there a preferred setup, please? Have read through the last few pages, but boy, it's a lot of numbers.
I was playing on 100x100 in the ratio settings, but after reading this, it's making me think there is something better preferred.
I was playing on 100x100 in the ratio settings, but after reading this, it's making me think there is something better preferred.
I only played the 1st one and not the rest so maybe that will change later, but yeah, I'll keep that in mind.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I played that game religiously on Vita for awhile. It seemed great to me, but it did have some load times, which definitely hampered the experience.
Not really. It's an arcade system so there were no RPGs on the MVS/AES, but there was the CD-exclusive Samurai Shodown RPG that's supposed to be pretty good.
cireza
Member
So I have a Switch and I bought Shock Troopers.
Here are my deductions from what I have seen.
Ratio : 100 (default one) looks like x2 to me.
Ratio : 150 gives x3 I think, and is close to filling the Switch screen (height only of course).
Applying scanlines gives unwanted patterns if I don't use a 100 or 150 ratio.
Applying scanlines also applies automatically a blurry filter.
On the Switch screen, the result is still pretty good with scanlines. A3 is fine for me, but all settings make sense depending on your tastes.
On TV, the blurry filter makes it really horrible. I have to disable it (which means no scanlines, because both are linked). I prefer to see the original pixels, even if it is a bit rough.
The Switch probably outputs 720p on the TV too, because the ratio does not need to be changed when switching from console to TV. They did this so the user does not have to change the settings, but I would have preferred a better output even if I am forced to change the settings manually each time.
All of these "conclusions" have been done by simply looking at the screen in detail. If something is wrong, please correct me.
Overall, the experience on the console is pretty good, on TV it is a bit disappointing as you cannot have any scanlines.
The Pro Controller is perfectly fine for me in this game. Will probably buy Waku Waku 7 soon
Here are my deductions from what I have seen.
Ratio : 100 (default one) looks like x2 to me.
Ratio : 150 gives x3 I think, and is close to filling the Switch screen (height only of course).
Applying scanlines gives unwanted patterns if I don't use a 100 or 150 ratio.
Applying scanlines also applies automatically a blurry filter.
On the Switch screen, the result is still pretty good with scanlines. A3 is fine for me, but all settings make sense depending on your tastes.
On TV, the blurry filter makes it really horrible. I have to disable it (which means no scanlines, because both are linked). I prefer to see the original pixels, even if it is a bit rough.
The Switch probably outputs 720p on the TV too, because the ratio does not need to be changed when switching from console to TV. They did this so the user does not have to change the settings, but I would have preferred a better output even if I am forced to change the settings manually each time.
All of these "conclusions" have been done by simply looking at the screen in detail. If something is wrong, please correct me.
Overall, the experience on the console is pretty good, on TV it is a bit disappointing as you cannot have any scanlines.
The Pro Controller is perfectly fine for me in this game. Will probably buy Waku Waku 7 soon
good taste
2>X for layout and level design.
X>2 for framerate, new weapons, and overall fun factor in multiplayer. I generally agree that X is definitive, but 2 is my favorite.
Metal Slug 1 is fantastic and very replayable. But X and 3 contain some of the greatest spectacles you will ever experience in any game. They were kind of the "AAA" games of the 240p era. It's over the top in the best possible way.
If you're on the fence of 1 vs. 3, I'd start with 1. It's the most timeless of all the installments. 3 is brutally hard in comparison.
Agent Unknown
Member
Thanks, I might still get it, I still love my PSP.
Taco_Human
Member
Wait what? I'm only reading this last page because I just got my switch today, is metal slug 2 out already?
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Snkfanatic
Banned
Just 3 for now and 1 will be out tomorrow.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Ennhh...not really. I had the Saturn version, which is better (none of that NGCD eternal loading) and tbh it's still a pretty mediocre game that gets propped up by its name and its status as the only Neo Geo rpg.
Definitely. SNK re-release that game all the time.
SmiteOfHand
Member
Lack of uncompressed screenshots in portable is killing me here. I agree 150 looks off, but couldn't decide if I was going crazy since the pixel count is dead on in the screenshot. I am really baffled as to what exactly is happening here. It doesn't seem like it is rendering in 720p or 1080p because both have odd sub-pixel issues beyond non-square pixels. There is this strange shadowing/blending thing going on that does not appear to be mathematically consistent. I am sure there is a pattern there I just can't seem to find it because compressed screenshots makes it impossible.
SmiteOfHand
Member
Sorry for the double post but burned the afternoon on this so figure it is justified.
TL;DR: There is no pixel perfect solution on the Switch regardless if you are using TV or portable. No matter what setting you use.
First of all this is the native resolution with integer scaling up to 4x. While the hardware was capable of 320x224, 8px on each side were normally not used. This makes it difficult to know exactly where the display frame ends below, but I did my best to be as accurate as possible.
I tried to figure out how many pixels it adds with each increment of the display scaler starting at the base (60), however this is impossible to be 100% accurate because there is often noise around the frame making it unclear where the frame technically exists. It appears that it increases roughly 11x6px with each step but this is an imperfect ratio as I did not feel like stepping through every single iteration to get the floating point value.
The important part here is the values closest to native 2x and 4x (66 and 133 in the scaler settings) is off by a few pixels. This leads to the sub-pixel noise and non-uniform pixel grid discussed on the past few pages... or does it?
I redid my previous 720p test with widescreen enabled so I could use it with everything else. 100 and 150 still perfectly lines up to 2x and 3x and while the pixels line up on 2x2 and 3x3 grids, the sub-pixel noise present in 1080p is also present at 720p. I looked at enough examples that I feel highly confident that there are clear cases in the JPEG screenshots that are not a result of shitty JPEG compression and are coming directly from the render.
Which leads back to Habieru's suggestion that it is actually always outputting at 1080p and scales down at 720p. Unfortunately there is no way to test this, but if this is accurate, and it looks like a strong possibility, that means that Hamster setup the configuration in such a way that it is impossible to set pixel perfect settings on either display. Because the way the scaler is setup with how it increments we have the worst of both worlds. Cool.
I'll try and find a way to summarize this because I don't think simply asking for integer scaling will cover the actual problem, include it in my bug report, and ship it over to Hamster and pray.
TL;DR: There is no pixel perfect solution on the Switch regardless if you are using TV or portable. No matter what setting you use.
First of all this is the native resolution with integer scaling up to 4x. While the hardware was capable of 320x224, 8px on each side were normally not used. This makes it difficult to know exactly where the display frame ends below, but I did my best to be as accurate as possible.
Code:
x1 -- 304x224px
x2 -- 608x448px
x3 -- 912x672px
x4 -- 1216x896pxI tried to figure out how many pixels it adds with each increment of the display scaler starting at the base (60), however this is impossible to be 100% accurate because there is often noise around the frame making it unclear where the frame technically exists. It appears that it increases roughly 11x6px with each step but this is an imperfect ratio as I did not feel like stepping through every single iteration to get the floating point value.
The important part here is the values closest to native 2x and 4x (66 and 133 in the scaler settings) is off by a few pixels. This leads to the sub-pixel noise and non-uniform pixel grid discussed on the past few pages... or does it?
Code:
1080p
060 -- 548x404px
061 -- 556x410px
062 -- 566x416px
..
066 -- 602x444px
..
133 -- 1212x893pxI redid my previous 720p test with widescreen enabled so I could use it with everything else. 100 and 150 still perfectly lines up to 2x and 3x and while the pixels line up on 2x2 and 3x3 grids, the sub-pixel noise present in 1080p is also present at 720p. I looked at enough examples that I feel highly confident that there are clear cases in the JPEG screenshots that are not a result of shitty JPEG compression and are coming directly from the render.
Code:
720p
060 -- 366x270px
061 -- 371x273px
062 -- 377x278px
..
100 -- 608x448px
..
150 -- 912x672pxWhich leads back to Habieru's suggestion that it is actually always outputting at 1080p and scales down at 720p. Unfortunately there is no way to test this, but if this is accurate, and it looks like a strong possibility, that means that Hamster setup the configuration in such a way that it is impossible to set pixel perfect settings on either display. Because the way the scaler is setup with how it increments we have the worst of both worlds. Cool.
I'll try and find a way to summarize this because I don't think simply asking for integer scaling will cover the actual problem, include it in my bug report, and ship it over to Hamster and pray.
I thought there was Far East of Eden RPG as well. I don't think that one ever got released in English, though. I always wanted to play it. It's funny because Crystalis for the NES is one of my all time favorite RPGs and it's done by SNK. Kind of wish they would have done a version of that game for the NeoGeo.
AlexFlame116
Member
Most likely gonna buy Metal Slug 3 tonight! One of my favorite game series ever.
Is there anything I should know? Are there unlimited continues?
Is there anything I should know? Are there unlimited continues?
The Hermit
Member
OrbitalBeard
Member
It's the arcade version, so yes.
ScientificPizza
Banned
I think 1 is better than 3 just because 3 is hard af and I'm bad at it
AlexFlame116
Member
You. I like you! Sixteen knows what's up!
Awesome. And for 8 bucks it's a no brainer! I'm down!
Alter_Fridge
Member
As someone else said, how do instructions to print a 3D object sell out?
There wasn't. it's a fighting game based on the series.
As far as "Great Neo Geo RPGs" on the Neo Geo go, The Super Spy and both Crossed Swords games have superficial RPG trappings (leveling up, shops, very lengthy by arcade game standards... etc.) but they play like Punch-Out. I hope the Crossed Swords series get a ACA release because they're totally rad games that deserve a bigger audience.
Agent Unknown
Member
Ya got me, I just posted the story.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Alright, Metal Slug rankings. We're just going to pretend that MS2 vanilla doesn't exist.
General Consensus:
3 > X > 1 > 7/XX > 6 > 5 > 4
TheRedSnifit Ranking:
1 > 7/XX > X > 3 > 5 > 6 > 4
OrbitalBeard
Member
You're damn right Metal Slug 1 is the best!
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
I have never wanted something so badly
iamaustrian
Member
I just want Blue's Journey for my Switch.
We had the arcade machine at home as a teenie and I played it to death and finished it several times.
Yeah, it sucks major ass as a platformer but it does have it's own kind of charm and I always loved the colorful graphics
We had the arcade machine at home as a teenie and I played it to death and finished it several times.
Yeah, it sucks major ass as a platformer but it does have it's own kind of charm and I always loved the colorful graphics
(and the music)
AlexFlame116
Member
TheRedSnifit speaks the truth. Fear him not and trust him.
I will play 1 again and then go for 2, X and 3. I hope to 1CC these games as well. I'll think about 4-7 in the future.
AlexFlame116
Member
It's a shame that 5 was kind of incomplete. To this day I still get confused about
. Came out of nowhere for me.
the final boss
TheRedSnifit
Member
Yeah, the final boss was terribly foreshadowed. Although to be fair, so were the Martians in MS2 vanilla.
MS5 had a ton of cool ideas (enemies being able to sabotage Slugs, the slide move, new enemies, robot enemies with more maneuverability than soldiers) but they weren't really utilized as well as they should've been. I'd pay a ton of money for a full remake of the game that included everything they wanted to have in it.
AlexFlame116
Member
I mean at least the Martians became a staple in the franchise! The final boss came, went, and is never mentioned again.
But yeah MS5 would really benefit with a remake. This time with no limitations!
While I'm at it, MS8 too please.
TheRedSnifit
Member
You'll have your f2p gacha games and like it!
SmiteOfHand
Member
Didn't realize the consensus is 4 is the worst but I admit 4-6 kind of blur together for me so not surprised.
What in particular is it about the fourth? Just how... uninspired the whole thing is?
What in particular is it about the fourth? Just how... uninspired the whole thing is?
cireza
Member
Scanlines look clean when you reach 150 (no visible pattern), this is why I believe it is an exact multiple (probably x3 considering the initial resolution and how it fills the 720p screen).
But of course, that's only deduction made "by the eye".
TheRedSnifit
Member
It was made while SNK was in bankruptcy and was farmed out to some C-tier developer to just recycled all the assets. Not even in a semi-creative way like the robots in MS5, just straight-up recolors (with the exception of those ugly hazmat guys). Even the bosses are just cobbled together from old sprites:
On top of that, there's some awful level design. That autoscrolling section in Mission 2 where you're on a jeep while planes shoot homing missiles at you. The entirety of Mission 3 (I legit thought my game was glitching when it kept sending waves of mummies at me). That part in Mission 4 where you have to platform on crates while helicopters drop bombs on you. The final boss with the RNG laser attack that can be literally unavoidable. Etc.
At least the new story mode in Metal Slug Attack might help give some more insight into weird bosses like those of the Ptolemaic army, while adding a few more characters to the setting, not to mention Metal Slug Defense before that made use of units that were sprites but not actually part of the NeoGeo games, like that one giant turtle mech.
Thank you for this detailed analysis. Let's hope Hamster does something about this, but it may require too much rework...
If the emulator is always outputting 1080p (portable mode being a 1080p picture scaled down to 720p), 150 is 4.5x. As 1080p is x1.5 720p, 150 should be "something like" x3 in portable mode, but not pixel perfect. Anyway, is probably the best option in portable mode. I think I'll use 100 in my monitor (yeah... :/) and 150 in portable mode.
SmiteOfHand
Member
Looks like GameGrumps is doing a run through of Shock Troopers if anyone on the fence wanted to check it out. I like that they immediately drop in 99 credits.
Metal Slug 4: I pretty much checked out entirely after the Fall of SNK. I probably credit fed through them once and promptly forgot them. I should give them more of a critical look. Slug has kind of always been a trilogy for me, so everything afterwards was kind of the same soup of eh, but it really isn't fair for me to just dismiss them outright like that.
Metal Slug 4: I pretty much checked out entirely after the Fall of SNK. I probably credit fed through them once and promptly forgot them. I should give them more of a critical look. Slug has kind of always been a trilogy for me, so everything afterwards was kind of the same soup of eh, but it really isn't fair for me to just dismiss them outright like that.
cireza
Member
Already finished Shock Troopers two times. Great game, highly recommended.
And having played again on the Switch directly, the blur is pretty visible after all. So I prefer not applying any scanlines (because they come with the blur).
Hamster should just allow scanlines without the blur.
And having played again on the Switch directly, the blur is pretty visible after all. So I prefer not applying any scanlines (because they come with the blur).
Hamster should just allow scanlines without the blur.
Yeah. I was thinking about the TG-16 CD game that never came out in English. Got that confused with the Neo Geo fighting game. Thanks for the correction.