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NEOGAF's Official Music Production Thread: calling all producers

Just finished editing for my entry to the Korg Monomania Sound Contest.

xm6FY.png


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMVdAX8YpUM

Just in time. phew.
 

Fusebox

Banned
Cheers. I really dig your entry btw, the video is slick and the tune is vibey. Nice work man.

edit: In fact I dig that sequence so much I'm upgrading my Tron to the Tribe. Just ordered one off ebay for $180.
 
Thanks man. It's an incredibly fun little box that sounds great and the tron is a nice companion. Have you seen the two new trons coming out soon?

They just released firmware 2.0 for the tribe which upgrades the sequencer to 16 steps amongst other things. You update via a sound file you have to feed into the tribe. :]
 

Fusebox

Banned
Yeah I saw the new Trons, the Duo interests me.

I've ordered a no-solder MIDI kit for the Tribe as well, I'll let you know how it goes.
 
Hey, I hope some people can help me out.

I got a $100 amazon gift card for christmas. I was going to buy a PSP, but decided to hold off on that and instead get a new audio interface. I mostly do solo work and use a M-Audio Firewire solo for that. It's been working fine for me, except it only has one XLR-in which means no double miking. It's also really quiet, which is pretty bad for acoustic recordings in my untreated bedroom. I need something that's around $250 tops, has at least two XLR-ins, is relatively good volume wise, and has a stereo input for MIDI stuff. Some 1/4 guitar ins would be nice too. Anything else after that is extra.

I mostly need more than one mic at a time so I can record some acoustic songs I've been working on. I HATE multi-tracking on acoustic songs. A lot of the ones I write have half-measures and fade outs, and I feel like I lose a lot of the emotion if I'm not recording both parts at once. It also sounds very stilted and robotic because I'm just trying to stay in time instead of actually just singing and recording.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Hey guys, I am in need of some advice.

I (and 1 other gaffer currently) look through free releases and publish them on a blog for interested people (Gaf Thread). One album I came across is a super noisy mess. I was trying to improve on it as far as I could, but I have no actual knowledge of that.

I used audacity so far and got this result:

Original Track:
http://thegravityamendments.bandcamp.com/track/daydreams

Edit 1 of that track:
http://soundcloud.com/wasfuersohr/the-gravity-amendments-from

Edit 2 of that track:
http://soundcloud.com/wasfuersohr/the-gravity-amendments-from-1

Any advice/comments/other programs to recommend in case its not good enough in your opinion? I'd really like to have a clean version of this, but thats the best I was able to come up with currently.
 

Yasae

Banned
Hey, I hope some people can help me out.

I got a $100 amazon gift card for christmas. I was going to buy a PSP, but decided to hold off on that and instead get a new audio interface. I mostly do solo work and use a M-Audio Firewire solo for that. It's been working fine for me, except it only has one XLR-in which means no double miking. It's also really quiet, which is pretty bad for acoustic recordings in my untreated bedroom. I need something that's around $250 tops, has at least two XLR-ins, is relatively good volume wise, and has a stereo input for MIDI stuff. Some 1/4 guitar ins would be nice too. Anything else after that is extra.

I mostly need more than one mic at a time so I can record some acoustic songs I've been working on. I HATE multi-tracking on acoustic songs. A lot of the ones I write have half-measures and fade outs, and I feel like I lose a lot of the emotion if I'm not recording both parts at once. It also sounds very stilted and robotic because I'm just trying to stay in time instead of actually just singing and recording.
Hmm.

  • You mentioned quiet recordings. The Firewire solo provides +40dB maximum gain, which is a little on the quiet side for acoustic guitar. Most preamps these days are mid-50s and up for maximum gain. A 15 dB or greater difference is enough to make quiet recordings into something more audible, probably even loud.

    Then again, you could be a mouse plucking a tiny Washburn SBF 24, I'm not completely sure. Your pic says you probably aren't.
  • Two XLR ins
  • MIDI I/O
  • 1/4 instrument ins

Ah, two part tracking from the same performer. Extremely common problem in recording, especially with singer-songwriters. It's simply easier and more natural to capture both parts at once. I'm of the mindset that multi-tracking should be left mainly to overdubs and whatever additions or revisions are necessary. Like ideally you'd want a a band in the studio recording all together if possible - with proper isolation, but playing synergistically.

That's not to say great records haven't been pieced together through multitracking. Shawn Colvin's A Few Small Repairs (1996) comes to mind, where producer John Leventhal was pulling double, triple, and sometimes quadruple performance duties on mandolin, guitar, percussion etc. The record and performances still sound fantastic, but it's not the most workable or ideal situation I imagine. He also let other people like Shawn Pelton (drums) and Michael Rhodes (bass) lay the foundation tracks and mostly added to those, so his input was more supportive rather than being the heart and soul of the production.

My suggestions are these:

  • Steinberg Cl2+ - $200

    kVKgc.jpg


    Meets all of your requirements except MIDI I/O (which is negligible, as you can find good MIDI to USB devices for a decent price and with minimal added latency. Just make sure they're a relatively new product or chances are the drivers will suck.)

    This is a newer line of interfaces, but word on the street about them has been fairly good. Preamps are clean and accurate (if sterile,) drivers work well. The integration with Cubase is nice but not terribly important, as you could make this work with any open DAW. It also has an integrated transport panel, a nice plus.

    Up to +60dB gain on the preamps, so you're more than covered there.

  • Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 - $225

    nScMf.jpg


    Ah, Focusrite. The company who used to make the old Mbox preamps.

    This has everything necessary including MIDI I/O. I've had more experience with Focusrite gear (use an old Saffire daily) and it's generally been positive. Preamps are clean, fast, transparent, can get a bit harsh and pinched at higher gains as you might expect. PC drivers generally work fine but can occasionally be a little buggy. I always hear about their Mac drivers leaving a lot to be desired, FWIW.

    You also get a nice little plugin suite for free with the interface. Decent bonus.

    Up to +60dB gain on the preamps.
 

Yasae

Banned
Hey guys, I am in need of some advice.

I (and 1 other gaffer currently) look through free releases and publish them on a blog for interested people (Gaf Thread). One album I came across is a super noisy mess. I was trying to improve on it as far as I could, but I have no actual knowledge of that.

I used audacity so far and got this result:

Original Track:
http://thegravityamendments.bandcamp.com/track/daydreams

Edit 1 of that track:
http://soundcloud.com/wasfuersohr/the-gravity-amendments-from

Edit 2 of that track:
http://soundcloud.com/wasfuersohr/the-gravity-amendments-from-1

Any advice/comments/other programs to recommend in case its not good enough in your opinion? I'd really like to have a clean version of this, but thats the best I was able to come up with currently.
Not a whole lot you can do that you haven't already done.

One trick is to sample the noise floor and phase invert it - basically take a second or two where the performers aren't playing, like a fade-in or fade-out, and use that to cancel out some of the noise in the recording. This is dependent upon how much "silence" they gave you to work with and the fact that the noise floor changes dynamically throughout the song, so it won't magically clean up a recording. It's more of an ancillary technique.

There's clipping @1:45 and it's pretty bad. You'd have to use some kind of declipping feature; I want to say Bias Soundsoap has one, but there are several programs out there. It would likely use point interpolation to repair the clipped peaks and that typically sounds pretty good.

You could also use a mid-side splitter (plenty of free plugins for this) and de-noise or tweak the images separately.

Good choice on the song, it's certainly worth cleaning up if you feel it necessary. They're lo-fi, however, and this does come along with the territory.
 

Fusebox

Banned
So the Monotribe is great fun but I can't wait for my MIDI mod-kit to arrive so I can do away with the pulse sync track.

6666327275_5572aa6e45_b.jpg
 

Fusebox

Banned
Not at the moment whiskers, my table is so small I usually only have enough space for whatever I'm using at the time and the rest is put aside but I'll try and get some photos soon. How's your Maschine and Komplete 8 combo going so far? Enjoying it?
 

VariantX04

Loser slave of the system :(
Oh, that's a bummer. :/

Komplete 8 is simply amazing! I'm still getting the hang of working with Maschine but I can already tell it's pretty powerful. I plan on building a mini studio just outside my house at the end of this month. I'll post pics of the progress and stuff.
 

Yasae

Banned
I think I have ADHD or something. I make a loop, don't know how to transition to the next part, give up and start a new project. Like I made this 16 sec. clubby, upbeat loop and I'm never goin to finish the fuckin song :(
http://soundcloud.com/luka-luka-luka/nice1
Focus on leads and what they're saying. Break parts down and build them back up to develop their voice. Stop thinking in loops, start thinking where you want the song to go before you start writing it. You're writing a song - it needs structure, variation, and some randomness. It needs to go somewhere and say something.

And this is a little hard to describe, but your clip sounds like it needs vocals, which is not what you want.
 

VariantX04

Loser slave of the system :(
I think I have ADHD or something. I make a loop, don't know how to transition to the next part, give up and start a new project. Like I made this 16 sec. clubby, upbeat loop and I'm never goin to finish the fuckin song :(
http://soundcloud.com/luka-luka-luka/nice1
I would suggest you repeat that part but add a lead with a few closed hi-hat hits to differentiate it from the introduction. More ideas should spring up once you've established that first minute. Keep going!

just finished a remix of one of my old band's tracks, hoped to create a kind of trent reznor soundtrack vibe. anyway, hope you like it!
'watch you with the lights off' - show me your skeleton mix.
I love this. The atmosphere is undeniably gripping. If I had to nitpick I'd say the percussive presence is lacking. Great job nonetheless!

You guys could also post in the GAF Indie Musician/Producer thread and hopefully you'll get some more feedback.
 
apologies for posting in the wrong place! anyway, thank you very much for the comment. by 'presence' do you mean the high-end eq? if so the idea was to have a very muted percussion track for the first three quarters and then it 'opens up' at the end, rather like this.
anyway, thanks again!
 

bowery

Member
Anyone use massive and know how to be able to see KSD's in the library? I downloaded 3800 ksd presets and have to import them one by one because the browser wont let me select them.
 

VariantX04

Loser slave of the system :(
apologies for posting in the wrong place! anyway, thank you very much for the comment. by 'presence' do you mean the high-end eq? if so the idea was to have a very muted percussion track for the first three quarters and then it 'opens up' at the end, rather like this.
anyway, thanks again!
I actually felt it could use a bangin drum beat. It would give it a totally unique persona and throw the listener off. Always try to be one step ahead of the listener. Then again, it would probably change the style you're going for dramatically. That's just how I envisioned it!
 
Hmm.

  • You mentioned quiet recordings. The Firewire solo provides +40dB maximum gain, which is a little on the quiet side for acoustic guitar. Most preamps these days are mid-50s and up for maximum gain. A 15 dB or greater difference is enough to make quiet recordings into something more audible, probably even loud.

    Then again, you could be a mouse plucking a tiny Washburn SBF 24, I'm not completely sure. Your pic says you probably aren't.
  • Two XLR ins
  • MIDI I/O
  • 1/4 instrument ins

Ah, two part tracking from the same performer. Extremely common problem in recording, especially with singer-songwriters. It's simply easier and more natural to capture both parts at once. I'm of the mindset that multi-tracking should be left mainly to overdubs and whatever additions or revisions are necessary. Like ideally you'd want a a band in the studio recording all together if possible - with proper isolation, but playing synergistically.

That's not to say great records haven't been pieced together through multitracking. Shawn Colvin's A Few Small Repairs (1996) comes to mind, where producer John Leventhal was pulling double, triple, and sometimes quadruple performance duties on mandolin, guitar, percussion etc. The record and performances still sound fantastic, but it's not the most workable or ideal situation I imagine. He also let other people like Shawn Pelton (drums) and Michael Rhodes (bass) lay the foundation tracks and mostly added to those, so his input was more supportive rather than being the heart and soul of the production.

My suggestions are these:

  • Steinberg Cl2+ - $200

    kVKgc.jpg


    Meets all of your requirements except MIDI I/O (which is negligible, as you can find good MIDI to USB devices for a decent price and with minimal added latency. Just make sure they're a relatively new product or chances are the drivers will suck.)

    This is a newer line of interfaces, but word on the street about them has been fairly good. Preamps are clean and accurate (if sterile,) drivers work well. The integration with Cubase is nice but not terribly important, as you could make this work with any open DAW. It also has an integrated transport panel, a nice plus.

    Up to +60dB gain on the preamps, so you're more than covered there.

  • Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 - $225

    nScMf.jpg


    Ah, Focusrite. The company who used to make the old Mbox preamps.

    This has everything necessary including MIDI I/O. I've had more experience with Focusrite gear (use an old Saffire daily) and it's generally been positive. Preamps are clean, fast, transparent, can get a bit harsh and pinched at higher gains as you might expect. PC drivers generally work fine but can occasionally be a little buggy. I always hear about their Mac drivers leaving a lot to be desired, FWIW.

    You also get a nice little plugin suite for free with the interface. Decent bonus.

    Up to +60dB gain on the preamps.

Dang. Wish I would've seen this post earlier. I actually ended up ordering a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 on Amazon for $200 ($99 after gift card). Oh, and I didn't need a midi I/O, but rather just a stereo in/out for using with my external midi devices. I have a nice 88 key midi controller with USB-MIDI on it. I also have some Hosa USB to midi cable that I was using beforehand, so I think the added MIDI I/O on the Saffire is just a little extra. I found out there was a DSP version of the same interface though, which I didn't find out until after I'd ordered the other ones. Do the Saffires come with the plugins on a separate disc, or is it something installed with drivers or available at the website? I bought mine refurbished and it didn't say whether or not it had the plugins with it.
 
i'm currently mixing using only my macbook pro speakers, which i realise is a terrible idea, so i need some low cost but decent monitors. any suggestions? i'd say i've got about £200-£250 max to play around with.
any suggestions producer-gaf?
 

VariantX04

Loser slave of the system :(
i'm currently mixing using only my macbook pro speakers, which i realise is a terrible idea, so i need some low cost but decent monitors. any suggestions? i'd say i've got about £200-£250 max to play around with.
any suggestions producer-gaf?

I just ordered these a few days ago. I'll be setting everything up in the coming days but going by reviews, it's likely your best option at that price range.
 
Is anyone watching all this new stuff AKAI is releasing?

http://www.akaiprompc.com/mpcrenaissance.php

So far there is the MPC Renaissance which looks to be a midi controller with an audio interface and companion software for integration with a computer. Looks kinda nifty I suppose. Dat Knobs. I suppose AKAI is finally trying to come into the 21st century and get in on the market that Native Instruments kinda took over when Maschine was released. (Hardware + Software together).

img_prod_ren_mast.png



I'm excited because another product called the MPC Studio is going to be unveiled in about 9 hours. I hear it's supposed a slimmed down version? I like small things. Can't wait.
 
I just ordered these a few days ago. I'll be setting everything up in the coming days but going by reviews, it's likely your best option at that price range.

These are passive. Won't he need a poweramp too?

I personally use Event 20-20P monitors. They were a good price one day on Amazon, and don't require an additional poweramp. Unfortunately, they're sort of large and don't fit on my desk well.
 

VariantX04

Loser slave of the system :(
These are passive. Won't he need a poweramp too?

I personally use Event 20-20P monitors. They were a good price one day on Amazon, and don't require an additional poweramp. Unfortunately, they're sort of large and don't fit on my desk well.
Yeah, I probably should've clarified that earlier. I got this amp alongside it.
 

Fusebox

Banned

I made a simple trance track using the pictured setup the other day:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2661270/Monotrance.mp3

Tetra is doing a simple one-note bassline, Monotribe is doing everything else and is on its own for the breakdown. Its a sequence I made using the inbuilt sequencer on the Monotribe and I start with a lot of the steps off and just turn the extra steps on as the track builds.

The Monotribe does a damn surprisingly good job of making that bubbly 303 sound and the pedals really bring it life imo.

Drums are all from Maschine btw.
 

Fusebox

Banned
Rightio then, you've inspired me man! I'm gonna get some of my new stuff up there over the weekend.

And I've just finished adding MIDI to my Monotribe, it was a no-solder mod kit so installation was easy and I now have a nice beepy, squeaky monosynth to fire MIDI clips at alongside my Tetra.

6729536115_ec2c70a97a_z.jpg


6729544289_55e9d9a39c.jpg


The Monotribe cost me AUS$189, the kit was US$55, all up less than $250 for an analogue synth with MIDI, freakin BARGAIN.
 
Just got a Virus KC. I've never had an Access synth before, but I've admired them for quite a while. This is definitely the nicest synth I've ever owned. The build quality, the modulation matrix, the effects, the key action, everything is top notch. A welcome change after owning a couple of shoddy plastic encoder DSI synths (still want a Tetra though) and some beat up old Rolands. The C's got warmer converters than the TI as well, a fair trade off for the DSP & extra modulation the TI offers. I can see this thing keeping me occupied for years, it's so deep.

CPK75.jpg


Which is not to say I won't be buying another legit analog or two some time this year. I'm kind of intrigued by the modular possibilities of the Little Phatty...
 
Niiice! I've always wanted a TI sound module myself but they're still just a bit out of my price-range.

Going by demos and trying them out I think a lot of the stuff people say about the older ones sounding a little better is true - the Bs are punchier and the Cs are warmer/wider (never had a chance at playing an A but some argue they're the best) due to lower resolution DACs.

The desktops of both those can be had fairly cheaply right now, you can probably find a B in great shape for around $500. I saw Cs going for $8-900, so when a KC popped up in my area for $1000 I jumped on it; it's almost worth that just as a high end MIDI controller, imo (I like it better than the Akai MPK key action).

Scott Hansen of Tycho was the guy who ultimately convinced me, he did a great writeup on the Virus line on his kickass blog here:

http://blog.iso50.com/20862/access-virus-ti2/

I saw him live on the weekend and he was doing all those warbly BOCesque leads on an Indigo 1, I knew right then I had to make it happen.
 
Sick. The price on those things is pretty amazing considering everything you get with it. They could've charged a cool 150$ more and people would still say it's a solid price.
 
Just got a Virus KC. I've never had an Access synth before, but I've admired them for quite a while. This is definitely the nicest synth I've ever owned. The build quality, the modulation matrix, the effects, the key action, everything is top notch. A welcome change after owning a couple of shoddy plastic encoder DSI synths (still want a Tetra though) and some beat up old Rolands. The C's got warmer converters than the TI as well, a fair trade off for the DSP & extra modulation the TI offers. I can see this thing keeping me occupied for years, it's so deep.

CPK75.jpg


Which is not to say I won't be buying another legit analog or two some time this year. I'm kind of intrigued by the modular possibilities of the Little Phatty...

Such a gorgeous keyboard. I'm always on the lookout for a Virus KB or KC on eBay but lately the few that get thrown up there are ridiculously overpriced. Some dude wanted $2200 for a KC. It's like uhhhh I think I'll just scrounge up a few more hundred and get a friggin new TI2 in that case.

Also, where the hell did that Minibrute synth come from? First I've heard of it. Is it something that was just announced from NAMM?
 
Sick. The price on those things is pretty amazing considering everything you get with it. They could've charged a cool 150$ more and people would still say it's a solid price.

I think Arturia felt stung by the Origin, and they want to stay closer to the entry level/prosumer market. I like the design philosophy, but I want to hear plenty of demos before really getting excited; there are a ton of analog monos on the market at the moment, and a bunch more coming. Right now the Macbeth Mini Mac & Vortex are setting the bar in that field imo, the demos he's put up sound more Model D than anything Moog has put out in decades. (They're going to be pricey though).

Outdoor Miner said:
Also, where the hell did that Minibrute synth come from? First I've heard of it. Is it something that was just announced from NAMM?

Yeah, they just threw up a teaser a day or two back, nobody had heard of it before.
 
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