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NES/Famicom Appreciation Thread

I posted some longer thoughts in the upscalers thread, but I'm loving playing NES games on this huge rear projection TV. Looks pretty good and there's something to be said for seeing the huge sprites of Punch-Out on a 55-inch screen.
 
I don't understand myself sometimes. Today off of ebay I bought Star Solder, Star Force, Super Star Force and Hector '87 on Famicom.. and I traded in the US versions of Star Soldier, Star Force and Starship Hector.

I think I have issues.
 

D.Lo

Member
Ah, my pre-bubble prices Contra set...

chVkP8C.jpg
The key was to never stop caring about Famicom/NES, instead of not caring from 1993-2010 like it seems most of these youtube morons.

(I did actually pay more for a Japanese Contra more recently to get the Konami collector card. Came out on top selling my spare boxed copy which I bought for $11 though ;) )
 

TeaJay

Member
I don't understand myself sometimes. Today off of ebay I bought Star Solder, Star Force, Super Star Force and Hector '87 on Famicom.. and I traded in the US versions of Star Soldier, Star Force and Starship Hector.

I think I have issues.

For a while back I traded in a lot of my PAL NES games in favor of the Famicom versions. I have nostalgia for the games, but not for the scandinavian format. Plus I finally get to play some of these games at the correct speed (Mega Man 1&2 for example). I got some ridiculously high prices for those games, since the craze concerning especially NES games with SCN region code here in Finland is really booming. After trading, I got all the same games plus a lot of extra stuff as well for my AV Famicom and some other consoles too.
 

Tain

Member
When it comes to buying old Japanese-developed games in 2015, I go for Japanese versions unless there's a serious language barrier (or you get the odd situation where the US version is better, like Hard Corps). It just makes the most sense to me.
 

D.Lo

Member
When it comes to buying old Japanese-developed games in 2015, I go for Japanese versions unless there's a serious language barrier (or you get the odd situation where the US version is better, like Hard Corps). It just makes the most sense to me.
Huh?

The US version is ruined by removing the life bar the game was designed with.

Controversial opinion: Overrated game either way, I like to play my Contra games, not watch cutscenes with awful crunchy explosion sounds every 20 seconds between endless Gunstar-ised boss fights. And it has a dog wearing sunglasses as a player. It literally has a Poochie.
 

-KRS-

Member
For a while back I traded in a lot of my PAL NES games in favor of the Famicom versions. I have nostalgia for the games, but not for the scandinavian format. Plus I finally get to play some of these games at the correct speed (Mega Man 1&2 for example). I got some ridiculously high prices for those games, since the craze concerning especially NES games with SCN region code here in Finland is really booming. After trading, I got all the same games plus a lot of extra stuff as well for my AV Famicom and some other consoles too.

I've been thinking of doing the same with my SCN games since these days I only collect NTSC, but I've never gotten around to it and most PAL NES games run fine on NTSC consoles anyway. The SCN collectors are really crazy/stupid though. Why the hell would I pay more for a sub-par version of a game, just because it's scandinavian? Fuck that. It's already expensive enough as it is.
 

Tain

Member
Huh?

The US version is ruined by removing the life bar the game was designed with.

It may have been designed around the life bar, but in practice the difficulty curve felt pretty perfect with the life bar absent. If anything it still seemed a little bit on the easy side, and I can't imagine I would have enjoyed it more with the life bar present.
 

entremet

Member
Huh?

The US version is ruined by removing the life bar the game was designed with.

Controversial opinion: Overrated game either way, I like to play my Contra games, not watch cutscenes with awful crunchy explosion sounds every 20 seconds between endless Gunstar-ised boss fights. And it has a dog wearing sunglasses as a player. It literally has a Poochie.

It was the 90s. Furries with attitude were the rage lol.
 

Timu

Member
It may have been designed around the life bar, but in practice the difficulty curve felt pretty perfect with the life bar absent. If anything it still seemed a little bit on the easy side, and I can't imagine I would have enjoyed it more with the life bar present.
IMO it's harder than Contra 1-3, I have far less trouble with those games than Hard Corps.
 

OnPoint

Member
Been working my way through the Famicom release of Mighty Final Fight.

PROS: Great music, animation is nice, controls are solid, fighting typically feels nice

CONS: Bosses are way too hard, levels have nearly no diversity, fighting lacks strategy​

I really want to like this game. It's got all the pieces to be a great brawler. But it gets more and more frustrating the deeper you get. It suffers from a lot of problems most brawlers do. I don't like that there's no real strategy to fighting normal enemies besides jump kick and hope you hit them, or punch until they run into your stuff.

I mean, the mechanics feel solid, but a block function would have gone a long way to giving combat an ebb and flow that it just doesn't have. I get that the super techniques that you unlock from level 4 and up are supposed to provide some sort of depth, but it really doesn't work out that way as they usually just fire themselves off in combat accidentally, which is especially bad with Cody as it leaves you open to attacks.

Speaking of, this game has the same negative feedback loop a lot of NES games do, where when you die and continue, you lose all your stuff. Like, your experience points are gone and you don't have your super techniques any more, even if you did want to use them, or became proficient at doing so.

I'll push through this and finish it at some point. I guess I just have to get better at not using supers on accident and learning how to tackle the pretty unfair bosses (level 4s is like, come on, what the shit). But I don't understand why most brawlers, even post-NES just aren't as good as River City Ransom. Did it set the bar that high?
 
I don't understand myself sometimes. Today off of ebay I bought Star Solder, Star Force, Super Star Force and Hector '87 on Famicom.. and I traded in the US versions of Star Soldier, Star Force and Starship Hector.

I think I have issues.

I said it a few pages back but - I like this idea. It makes sense to me to have FC versions of shmups and arcade games that originated in Japan. The NA box art for most arcade ports are just ugly, not to mention that many such games never made it west.
 
I just picked up Ninja Gaiden and Bionic Commando for 18$ in one of my local stores enjoying them both. I'm certainly having more luck finding good NES carts over SNES ones in the wild.

On another note one of the few retro gaming stores near me just closed, which is a shame, but I doubt charging Internet prices for retro games helped them much.
 

D.Lo

Member
Been working my way through the Famicom release of Mighty Final Fight.

PROS: Great music, animation is nice, controls are solid, fighting typically feels nice

CONS: Bosses are way too hard, levels have nearly no diversity, fighting lacks strategy​

I really want to like this game. It's got all the pieces to be a great brawler. But it gets more and more frustrating the deeper you get. It suffers from a lot of problems most brawlers do. I don't like that there's no real strategy to fighting normal enemies besides jump kick and hope you hit them, or punch until they run into your stuff.

I mean, the mechanics feel solid, but a block function would have gone a long way to giving combat an ebb and flow that it just doesn't have. I get that the super techniques that you unlock from level 4 and up are supposed to provide some sort of depth, but it really doesn't work out that way as they usually just fire themselves off in combat accidentally, which is especially bad with Cody as it leaves you open to attacks.

Speaking of, this game has the same negative feedback loop a lot of NES games do, where when you die and continue, you lose all your stuff. Like, your experience points are gone and you don't have your super techniques any more, even if you did want to use them, or became proficient at doing so.

I'll push through this and finish it at some point. I guess I just have to get better at not using supers on accident and learning how to tackle the pretty unfair bosses (level 4s is like, come on, what the shit). But I don't understand why most brawlers, even post-NES just aren't as good as River City Ransom. Did it set the bar that high?
There are truly few great beat em ups.

RCR. Double Dragon II (Fami/NES version). Streets of Rage 2. Turtles III and IV. And I personally love Return of Double Dragon, though it has a weak framerate.

It was the 90s. Furries with attitude were the rage lol.
It's disgusting. Contra is Arnie and Rambo vs Giger Aliens with catchy tunes. Not furries and kid-friendly robocops vs robots to techno noise.

I guess it's just a spinoff though, like Contra Force, so can be ignored.
 

Timu

Member
There are truly few great beat em ups.

RCR. Double Dragon II (Fami/NES version). Streets of Rage 2. Turtles III and IV. And I personally love Return of Double Dragon, though it has a weak framerate.
Yep, I really liked those beat em ups a lot, though Return of Double Dragon is my least fav on the list, despite it's framerate it's still pretty good and I do love it's counter system.
 
I just picked up Ninja Gaiden and Bionic Commando for 18$ in one of my local stores enjoying them both. I'm certainly having more luck finding good NES carts over SNES ones in the wild.

On another note one of the few retro gaming stores near me just closed, which is a shame, but I doubt charging Internet prices for retro games helped them much.

I could not believe how much fun bionic commando was. I pick it up recently too. Such an awesome game. Has a challenge that is fair, and skill based, unlike so many eight bit games.
 

OnPoint

Member

I figure since I sat down and actually finished the game, I'd talk about my final thoughts before it goes back on the shelf for quite a while. Mighty Final Fight is a 100% no frills brawler, more in the arcade style than most of the brawlers I remember on the NES. It really does feel like an entry in the Final Fight series, for better or for worse.

First off, it's definitely one of the best looking and sounding non-Nintendo games on the NES. Everything is drawn clearly with great animations and there's minimal flicker. The soundtrack is vintage NES Capcom. In fact, it was composed by two of the folks who did Mega Man X's tunes.

More importantly, the game itself actually plays pretty well. You have a selection of three characters: Cody, Guy and Haggar. Disappointingly this is single player only, so solo artists or turn-takers only. Anyway, your standard brawler fighting is what you'll get here. Punch with one button, jump with the other. Jump kick using both. However, it turns out there's a little bit more depth to the combat than my previous post stated. I looked up the controls to see if I was missing anything and Cody and Guy have a knee-drop maneuver that Haggar (the character I was playing as) does not. This actually allows you to come in on enemies hard and fast, opening up a lane for attack more safely than you can without it. It changed my opinion of the fighting system quite a bit, and the game got a lot more fun once I knew about it. Also, Haggar feels much less useful because of this and his lack of speed, but at least there are two other characters to play.

Still, the game isn't without some of the same hangups many brawlers before and after suffer from. While I've come around on the bosses and think the fights are actually pretty fair, sometimes enemies in the game, boss or not, are just going to hit you. No matter what. It can feel a tad unfair in that regard. The levels are pretty much just walk forward, kill half-of-to-a-dozen enemies, then move on to the next segment, all the way through the game. Sure, there are barrel-breaking bonus sections, but those are brief and don't really feel substantial enough to break things up.

And then there's how the experience works. If you die, you restart the stage at the same level you were at, so if you entered level 3 with a level 3 character, but level up to 4 during the stage and die, your character's level goes back to 3. But you start with 0 XP, no matter what you originally entered with. Once you get up to stage 3, the board won't provide enough XP to make it up a level, feeling like you're capped at whatever level which you had to continue unless you can do two in a row without using a continue. This, frankly, makes leveling up feel impossible. It rewards players who know what they're doing, but it can definitely cause newer players to feel even more hamstrung than they might already feel. I finished the game maxed out at level 4 of 6 possible tiers, so it's not the end of the world, but it's still kind of a crappy system.

I'd say Mighty Final Fight is a little rough around the edges but probably worth a play if you can get your hands on it, especially for brawler enthusiasts. The US cart is so prohibitively expensive, and there aren't many games I would ever recommend spending that kind of money on, but the much cheaper Famicom cart did the job just fine.

There are truly few great beat em ups.

RCR. Double Dragon II (Fami/NES version). Streets of Rage 2. Turtles III and IV. And I personally love Return of Double Dragon, though it has a weak framerate.

I agree that there are few truly great beat 'em ups. You may have left a few off though, with Guardian Heroes being a huge favorite and some of the later arcade brawlers my friends swear by like Armored Warriors, Aliens vs. Predator and Battle Circuit, but even then the ranks are thin.
 

D.Lo

Member
Yeah if you include arcade, quite a few more are really good. Turtles 1 and Simpsons and many other Konami ones are fun, if not very deep.
 

Type_Raver

Member
Ah, my pre-bubble prices Contra set...


The key was to never stop caring about Famicom/NES, instead of not caring from 1993-2010 like it seems most of these youtube morons.

(I did actually pay more for a Japanese Contra more recently to get the Konami collector card. Came out on top selling my spare boxed copy which I bought for $11 though ;) )

I remember it being called probotector, havent heard that in ages! Nice set and like the bubble covers, need to get some myself, particularly for snes and n64.
 

TeaJay

Member
I've been meaning to nab River city ransom, but the PAL version (Street gangs) is kinda expensive, closing to 50 €. Actual RCR would be cheaper but I'd have to play it on my AV Famicom if I want 60hz speed, and I need the adapter. I guess I could get the Famicom version too, but I guess you kinda need to read the menus in this game?
 

OnPoint

Member
I've been meaning to nab River city ransom, but the PAL version (Street gangs) is kinda expensive, closing to 50 €. Actual RCR would be cheaper but I'd have to play it on my AV Famicom if I want 60hz speed, and I need the adapter. I guess I could get the Famicom version too, but I guess you kinda need to read the menus in this game?
Reading is real important in RCR. 50 € might be expensive but it is one of the best in its genre.
 

psylah

Member
I found a copy of Wizards and Warriors, it was the only thing to pull my attention from MGSV all weekend. What a great game.
 

Zing

Banned
I never knew Might Final Fight even existed. It seems that I'm still discovering hidden NES gems to this day.
It is from 1993. We were two years into the SNES by then. I certainly no longer bought or cared for anything NES after Kirby's Adventure.
 

entremet

Member
I picked up MFF on the Wi U VC. Only played a level and though it was pretty fun for the platform's limitation.

Love the art style. Need to finish it.
 

Mega

Banned
Got my RGB modded AV Famicom today and just had a chance to try it. The clarity, color vibrancy, the overall picture quality... it's absolutely stunning. Really, it's AMAZING and needs to be experienced firsthand, especially on a good CRT. What beats this? Having the image beamed directly into your brain?!

Thanks to Baphomet for a fantastic and flawless mod!

edit: he also did a Zapper mod that worked out perfectly. Those damn ducks are not so easy to hit when you're not a cheating 7-year old holding the gun up against the screen.
 

Triple Dash

Neo Member
I figure since I sat down and actually finished the game, I'd talk about my final thoughts before it goes back on the shelf for quite a while. Mighty Final Fight is a 100% no frills brawler, more in the arcade style than most of the brawlers I remember on the NES. It really does feel like an entry in the Final Fight series, for better or for worse.

I'd say Mighty Final Fight is a little rough around the edges but probably worth a play if you can get your hands on it, especially for brawler enthusiasts. The US cart is so prohibitively expensive, and there aren't many games I would ever recommend spending that kind of money on, but the much cheaper Famicom cart did the job just fine.

Got any advice as to how to beat the game? I find myself repeatably walking into sections where you just have to take a hit or being forced to play hit & run with enemies/bosses.


I think that's the only NES game I ever got and will ever get a good deal on considering I started collecting in 2010. It's shot up 8x the amount I originally paid for it back then.
 

TeaJay

Member
Bit of a review of an obscure Japan-only release: Circus Charlie
circus-charlie-14.png

This is not quite as obscure here in Finland, since this game was featured in various pirate cart compilations and everyone knew someone who had them, borrowed them, and therefore played this game. Same as Macross, Mappy, Super Arabian... all the staples of the Supervision or Megacom pirate carts.
 

D.Lo

Member
This is not quite as obscure here in Finland, since this game was featured in various pirate cart compilations and everyone knew someone who had them, borrowed them, and therefore played this game. Same as Macross, Mappy, Super Arabian... all the staples of the Supervision or Megacom pirate carts.
Interesting, I've never seen it in any Hong Kong pirates, but I'm not mega experienced with them.

The arcade isn't obscure either, but it does seem to be a very rare Famicom game, at least in box.
 

OnPoint

Member
Got any advice as to how to beat the game? I find myself repeatably walking into sections where you just have to take a hit or being forced to play hit & run with enemies/bosses.

For most of the normal sections, I tend to do flying knees (jump and press down+B with Cody or Guy) a lot to open up my combos. There's a temporary hit-stun for enemies when you do this, allowing you to just open up shop. The only regular guys this won't work on are the big dudes with the hats that do the side kick, as they're pretty block happy. Also, the regular old jump kick does wonders on most enemies, but the flying knee into combo is much faster.

I also never stop moving and jumping in normal areas, as enemies can drop from the ceiling and do damage unfairly, plus those irritating dudes with the knifes have more trouble hitting you. So my best advice for the normal enemies is: Use flying knees and open a combo when you land a hit, and never stop moving. The flying knee and jump kick are your friend.

As for bosses, hit and run and patience are the best techniques I can really coach in a general way. Learning the patterns is key. I'll spoiler some specific strategies below.

The first boss: Just jump kick him to death. Takes forever but he literally can't hit you otherwise.

The second boss: Jump kick him as he charges toward you. You have to time it right, but you can do it in a way that he won't be able to hit you with his sword. Again, takes forever, but it's the safest bet.

The third boss: He's a dick. I play a bit of cat and mouse with him, trying to bait out a normal punch, but you have to be careful not to get scooped up into his weird kissing attack. If you can do that without getting hit, he'll back up and do that whole angry red face thing. When he does, jump kick. Rinse and repeat. I also found that, if by this point you're level 4, Cody's fireball wrecks him and makes the whole process easier.

The fourth boss: Same as the second boss, but he has a second attack pattern about half way through his life bar. Oddly it's way easier to deal with than the first. The boss should be in the corner, and he'll dash very quickly across the stage. If you're two steps or so away from him vertically (above him if he's on the bottom, below him if he's on the top), he'll forego dashing at you at an angle and just go across horizontally, hitting the corner and opening himself up to combos. Also, Cody's fireball does work on his first half attack pattern, if you have it.

The fifth boss: He's the final guy. Has two forms. I honestly can't remember what I did for his first form but it wasn't too hard. I think I was just aggressive and landed hits wherever I could. The second form he'll hug the edges and fire missiles at you, these can be jumped over. When you get close to him, he'll try to switch sides. You can land a flying knee or jump kick right before he rockets across to the other screen, this should open him up to combos. Just repeat this and he'll be toast in no time.

I'm telling you guys to jump on Conquest of the Crystal Palace before its too late.

Just scooped it up. Why do you think it will go up? General scarcity?
 

Triple Dash

Neo Member
I'm telling you guys to jump on Conquest of the Crystal Palace before its too late.

Kind of wish I did earlier. I remember reading about it on Hardcore Gaming, and then keeping it on my radar a few months ago (~5) when it was $8 online and I was feeling lazy.

Of course then I discover one day that it's jumped to $35. It's gone down since then somewhat, but it's been proof to me that Youtube Gaming can effect prices.
 
This is not quite as obscure here in Finland, since this game was featured in various pirate cart compilations and everyone knew someone who had them, borrowed them, and therefore played this game. Same as Macross, Mappy, Super Arabian... all the staples of the Supervision or Megacom pirate carts.

Heh, ol' "CIRCUS CHABLIE"
 
I'm telling you guys to jump on Conquest of the Crystal Palace before its too late.

I'll put it on my radar. Two others I've had on my radar are Darkwing Duck and Felix the Cat. Both are rising. Both are now above $40, which might be too high for many, depending on your price tolerance. I got Darkwing in a deal recently. No Felix yet.
 

Teknoman

Member
Just scooped it up. Why do you think it will go up? General scarcity?

Just the feeling that like Swordmaster, Kickmaster, and Shatterhand, once people hear the music https://youtu.be/GOWIJGu1eKQ and see the gameplay...it'll get a video or two then skyrocket.

Then again Power Blade and Astyanax haven't really. I think Whomp'em did. Dunno the Famicom version of Crystal Palace for comparison.

I'm surprised Faxanadu, Crystalis, and Willow are still fairly cheap.
 

Huggers

Member
Working my way through the Mega Man games. Just finished Mega Man 4. Went to buy 5. Ouch! Price is getting worse if anything.

Also. Holy shit at that Conquest of the Crystal Palace music. Sold!
 

OnPoint

Member
Just the feeling that like Swordmaster, Kickmaster, and Shatterhand, once people hear the music https://youtu.be/GOWIJGu1eKQ and see the gameplay...it'll get a video or two then skyrocket.

Then again Power Blade and Astyanax haven't really. I think Whomp'em did. Dunno the Famicom version of Crystal Palace for comparison.

I'm surprised Faxanadu, Crystalis, and Willow are still fairly cheap.

Astyanax is not a good game though haha

Whomp'em doesn't seem to be too much more than it was when I bought it like 6 months ago or so. I did just scoop up Willow and Faxanadu only because my GF loves WIllow (don't know why we don't own it already) and Faxanadu is one I've been meaning to forever. Can't be the cheap price on either of them.

Working my way through the Mega Man games. Just finished Mega Man 4. Went to buy 5. Ouch! Price is getting worse if anything.

Also. Holy shit at that Conquest of the Crystal Palace music. Sold!

Holy crap, 90 bucks minimum? Screw that. So glad I scooped up all 6 Famicom carts for just over that price total.
 
I managed to get my copy of MM5 for about 2/3 of the going price this summer. Wish I could have score it cheaper but that's about all I could hope for by now.

OnPoint, do you think Whomp Em is any good?
 

OnPoint

Member
I managed to get my copy of MM5 for about 2/3 of the going price this summer. Wish I could have score it cheaper but that's about all I could hope for by now.

OnPoint, do you think Whomp Em is any good?

It's a strange game with an even stranger history. I had a fun time with it, so I would say it's worthwhile, but it's not in my top tier of games on the system. I wouldn't let it get much more expensive though, so if you're planning to pick it up do it soon.

It plays well enough with fairly unique mechanics. It also has some notably weird levels, which is sort of refreshing since the weirdness doesn't equate to poor design. As far as NES games go it's not too difficult, though the last level and final boss have a pretty steep curve compared to what comes before them.
 

Mzo

Member
My parents paid around $50 each for Mega Man 1-6 in '80s money for my birthdays and Christmases. That's probably a bad deal.
 
It's a strange game with an even stranger history. I had a fun time with it, so I would say it's worthwhile, but it's not in my top tier of games on the system. I wouldn't let it get much more expensive though, so if you're planning to pick it up do it soon.

It plays well enough with fairly unique mechanics. It also has some notably weird levels, which is sort of refreshing since the weirdness doesn't equate to poor design. As far as NES games go it's not too difficult, though the last level and final boss have a pretty steep curve compared to what comes before them.

Thanks - especially for the link as I hadn't known about that convoluted history nor about the MM influence. Sounds like a winner though not a top-tier title.

Bit of a review of an obscure Japan-only release: Circus Charlie

Seems worth picking up, too. Off topic but I really want that Konami arcade collection for PS1 but it's like $50 now. I'm sure I saw it for $10 at my local retro store a couple years ago. :/
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
I managed to get my copy of MM5 for about 2/3 of the going price this summer. Wish I could have score it cheaper but that's about all I could hope for by now.

OnPoint, do you think Whomp Em is any good?

I wasn't too impressed with Whomp Em... the graphics are great, but music is weak and I get the feeling there are a few too many 'cheap hits' and slightly sloppy level design (blind jumps, impossibly placed enemies). Definitely a decent game but a bit overrated imo.
 
Thanks for the Whomp Em impressions. I'll definitely get it at some point. If nothing else, the native American theme makes it a novelty worth having. Definitely wouldn't pass muster today.

Different topic ... I've been killing a little Saturday afternoon time reading about the 10NES chip and 72-pin connectors. (It all began with my interest in playing some PAL games on my NTSC American NES, but from what I understand, that's just a fruitless effort because the games just won't run properly even after disabling the chip). I know all about the history and issues with these two components but I have never messed with them myself.

Anyway, I've been reading that some folks prefer a cleaned and well-maintained OEM connector with a disabled 10NES chip over a new/third party connector. Original hardware, no death grip, no blinking light and (if kept clean) supposedly no real issues loading (cleaned) games.

Anyone have thoughts on this? Maybe Baph or someone who deals with a lot of different hardware and parts? My NES has an after market connector (purchased it with one in 1998) and clean games almost always boot just fine, but occasionally there are issues. Getting rid of that death grip would be nice, though it's really not too bad on my connector because it's like 17 years old in its own right. I'm thinking I should cut the 10NES either way....
 
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