AJUMP23
Gold Member
certainly all slavery is and was bad. From modern day Chinese to UAE slavery. To ancient bronze age people conquering and conscripting.
And the word does derive from the Slavic people.
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Netflix’s ‘Queen Cleopatra’ Appears to Have the Worst Audience Score in TV History
- Thread starter Dural
- Start date
And the word does derive from the Slavic people.
99.9999% agree. But I would not dismiss indoctrination altogether. Some of these people genuinely believe this is the way to make money.
winjer
Gold Member
Throughout all of humanity, slavery was very common. All civilizations had slaves, the exception is the modern European ban on slavery, that eventually was exported throughout most of the developed world.
Asides from the American plantation system, slavery was not focused on race. Anyone could become a slave, despite race, religion, place of birth, etc.
I doubt that Europeans were used more as slaves than Africans. In part, because in Europe slavery was replaced by serfdom.
And although serfdom imposes a lot of restrictions on the serf, it's not as restrictive as slavery.
Another reason is that several African kingdoms were very keen on slavery. So much, that slaves were a common commodity of trade.
Regarding the Atlantic slave trade, it's important to notice, that there were many kingdoms in Africa, each with it's own policy towards slave trade.
Some kingdoms actively pursued the slave trade. for example, the Kingdom of Congo had a treaty with the kingdom of Portugal for trading slaves. This made both kingdoms very rich.
Other African kingdoms, refused to participate on the Atlantic slave trade out of ethical concerns.
Probably the race that was the most affected by slavery were Asians, simply because of the immense population that it always had.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
As silly as these kinds of media are. Just sit back and watch the stupidity. The show is already being grilled, so it shows their pandering for brownie pts with a twisted “docudrama” about Cleopatra has backfired.
But hey, media needs viewers and everyone knows who cleopatra is. You’d think they’d just hire an actress who looks Egyptian//Mediterranean, but I guess that group of people have it too good in life so you got to go down the ladder of haves and have nots and pick someone from the black community to represent. Doing a African queen series with back actresses doing the role nobody would care about.
But hey, media needs viewers and everyone knows who cleopatra is. You’d think they’d just hire an actress who looks Egyptian//Mediterranean, but I guess that group of people have it too good in life so you got to go down the ladder of haves and have nots and pick someone from the black community to represent. Doing a African queen series with back actresses doing the role nobody would care about.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
A banana... Really?
GymWolf
Member
The model doesn't seems offended.
The problem with this show is the assumption "since we don't know for sure the Cleopatra's heritage, she's definitely black". At this point, why not asian?
Almamegretta already new in 1998...
Fun fact: I can't find it anywhere, but the videoclip of this song ended with a mobster asian guy screaming "YELLOW ATHENA!!!!!"
Almamegretta already new in 1998...
Fun fact: I can't find it anywhere, but the videoclip of this song ended with a mobster asian guy screaming "YELLOW ATHENA!!!!!"
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Before you get yourself in the manufactured emotional manipulation, here are the models and the photographer/artist.
Nicolas Demeersman - Biography, Shows, Articles & More | Artsy
Explore Nicolas Demeersman’s biography, achievements, artworks, auction results, and shows on Artsy.
www.artsy.net
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Good grief, fricking "modern art".Before you get yourself in the manufactured emotional manipulation, here are the models and the photographer/artist.
Nicolas Demeersman - Biography, Shows, Articles & More | Artsy
Explore Nicolas Demeersman’s biography, achievements, artworks, auction results, and shows on Artsy.
While some are quite beautiful, like this one
Some of the others are....sheesh
Cyberpunkd
Member
Obligatory mention that it was the French Revolution that abolished slavery, hundreds of years before the end of racial segregation in the US. To this day the republican ideal of “Frenchness” is linked to nationality, not race.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas-Alexandre_Dumas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevalier_de_Saint-Georges
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GutsOfThor
Member
Good. Fuck this show and fuck Smith.
winjer
Gold Member
The abolishment of slavery in Europe started with a push from the British people, after several incidents with slaves that gained the public's attention, during the late XVIII century.
Eventually, the British proposed an abolition of the slave trade, at the 1813 Congress of Vienna. This proposal was met with distrust from France, Portugal and Spain, who had significant interest in slavery at the time.
But it started the movement for all of these countries to abolish slavery in their own colonies, in a few decades.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Disney already beat you to it.
‘West Side Story’ Star Rachel Zegler to Lead Disney’s ‘Snow White’ Remake
"West Side Story" actor Rachel Zegler has been cast as Snow White in Disney's upcoming remake of the classic fairytale.
variety.com
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
"Skin as white as snow"
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
The problem with this show is we already know Cleopatra's heritage ffs and she was most definitely not black, she was Macedonian/Greek ffs, show looked daft af and has that "Smith" taint all over it
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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Pitch to Disney: "She's gonna be an edgy drug lord baroness...you feel me?"Disney already beat you to it.
‘West Side Story’ Star Rachel Zegler to Lead Disney’s ‘Snow White’ Remake
"West Side Story" actor Rachel Zegler has been cast as Snow White in Disney's upcoming remake of the classic fairytale.
Evil stepmom: "Mirror Mirror on my table, who can do a line of blow better than me?"
Mirror: "Your highness, Snow White can snort an entire bag and still ride the pole"
Evil stepmom: "AHHHHHHHHH, Huntsman, go snuff that bitch, I'll rig up an Apple Iphone with endless TikTok videos to put her in an unbreakable trance if you fail"
Disney exec: "This seems like a stretch of the source material, but it checks a lot of boxes we can use to placate the social media wolves, marketing says cocaine is HUGE in China this year, so LET'S DO IT!" Celebrates by doing a line of blow off the ass of a Musketeer.
Dural
Member
This just came up in my news feed when I opened a new window. The media is going to come out and try and save it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/ne...p&cvid=44a080de209c466d92ffbaa5063d3be4&ei=22
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/ne...p&cvid=44a080de209c466d92ffbaa5063d3be4&ei=22
RainblowDash
Gold Member
Will Jada Smith recover from this?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Billbofet
Member
Racist series being review bombed is racist!!!!
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Raception!Racist series being review bombed is racist!!!!
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Wow. Didn't know that. I googled it to see what comes up.
The Story of Africa| BBC World Service
The history of the continent from an African perspective. With hundreds of pages, and multi-media, the BBC investigates the events and characters that have made African history from the origins of humankind to the end of South African apartheid.
www.bbc.co.uk
The term slave has its origins in the word slav. The slavs, who inhabited a large part of Eastern Europe, were taken as slaves by the Muslims of Spain during the ninth century AD. Slavery can broadly be described as the ownership, buying and selling of human beings for the purpose of forced and unpaid labour.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
If anyone explored every regional/country history, probably all countries had slaves at some point. It's just a matter of how many and how publicized it is in modern media and books to tell the world.
For example, if youre saying the Ottoman Empire had Asian slaves, I didn't know that. I would had thought Ottomans and Asians did their own thing. You never know, maybe Asian dynasties back then also had slaves from the mid east. Who knows.
But modern day slave talk is almost always either Europeans taking over Africa (British and French), or American Civil War. So people think slavery is limited to that.
Africans even enslaved their own people, which helped out Europeans coming over wanting to buy. But it looks bad culturally if someone makes a tv series or movie based on African leaders and slavemasters selling their own people.
I just did a random google to see if there was slavery in South America. Well low and behold, get a gander at this. Who knew. When was the last time anyone talked about this in a movie or school book?
Slavery in Latin America - Wikipedia
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diffusionx
Gold Member
That quote is hilarious. One, Egyptians are African, by definition. Two, there is an uninhabitable desert the size of the United States between Egypt and the nations that sold off the ancestors of today’s African-Americans. They’re not the same people in any respect no matter how much these people wishes it were so. Also, Jada Pinkett Smith claims that Cleopatra’s heritage is highly debated which is just a blatant falsehood, as the ruler of a kingdom she is one of the very few historical figures of ancient times whose heritage and likeness is known.Going ahead with their own historically accurate show by the look of it.
Netflix’s 'Black Cleopatra' prompts Egyptian broadcaster to make its own series with light-skinned star
"I have asked Egyptians to see themselves as Africans, and they are furious at me for that,” the docudrama's director wrote in an op-ed.www.nbcnews.com
This really just shows the low IQ, narcissist stupidity of the people who claim to be our betters.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
To be fair, she'll say anything to back up her show. She's not the brightest person (didn't she have a sex romp with a 25 year old rapper against Will Smith?), but I find it hard to believe anyone can be this dumb to think Cleopatra (among the most iconic Egyptian things people know along with pyramids and cool myth) would be a Black woman.
But it's media. And media has a long leash to do whatever you really want. As long as someone is willing to fund it, you can make a movie about Santa Claus vs. Rambo. Arguably the dumbest part of the show is labelling it a docudrama. They could had at least marketed it as alternate universe fantasy.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
His point still stands. They are susceptible to lies and indoctrination like anyone else, and the hubris that comes out of them makes it icing on the already rancid shitcake they bake.
LimanimaPT
Member
Hahaha. This is all starting to become a big joke.Disney already beat you to it.
‘West Side Story’ Star Rachel Zegler to Lead Disney’s ‘Snow White’ Remake
"West Side Story" actor Rachel Zegler has been cast as Snow White in Disney's upcoming remake of the classic fairytale.
Isn't all this that is going on the pure definition of racism or am I missing something?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
Incredible, it's worse than FRIENDS
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
That's... A weird statement. But anyway...
That's been a belief among black people for decades... All we knew was that Hollywood whitewashed our stories continuously and often put a white face on it with no care about historical accuracy. Actually, there were non-greek, non-arabic Egyptians... Which you would call "sub-saharan" who were kings and queens of Egypt. In fact, there has always been black people in Egypt, as well as Arabic, Asiatic, etc. This is shown in their ancient artwork. They didn't stay where they were in sub-saharan Africa. There was a lot of travel throughout Africa in ancient days. In fact, it's thought in academic circles that the demographics haven't changed that much despite mass migrations to and from Egypt.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Define racism because no ... It isn't the "pure definition" of it.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Cleopatra was not black. End of story.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The Nubians ruled Egypt for a brief period and interacted with them over the millenia, but they were a Nile Valley civilization, which is VERY different from West Africa in language, culture, phenotype, etc. The Egyptian civilization operated in the Nile valley and other civilizations of the Mediteranean, the people of what are now Nigeria, Ghana, Benin, etc.? Not so much.
If the demographics of Egypt haven't changed much over the millenia, well then, what do we say about modern day Egyptians getting mad about Cleopatra being portrayed this way lol.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Some black people with propaganda pushed by Afrocentrism "black Israelites."
Does not make it so.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Cleo was an inbred Greek-Macedonian who, from what I read about her, was entrenched in Egyptian religion... Kind of at odds with her family. It's amazing she didn't look worse. She was quite pretty.
As with many societies, there's still a lot of anti-blackness or anti-darker skinnedness. It's a thing. Like we talked about in one of the movie threads how Hollywood more often than not casts lighter skinned black actresses than darker skinned actresses for "marketability"... Like with Storm. In the comics she's always been depicted as an African from sub-saharan Africa having darker skin yet I'm the movies she was cast as a very light skinned woman ... Twice! Darker skin is viewed as undesirable by those in power... Lighter skin is favorable. Not to me tho... I love darker skinned women... But also every other shade in between. I don't care... If you're pretty and attractive TO ME, you're pretty and attractive!
As I said, the "Cleo was black" narrative was a thing in the black community for a reason, which I laid out.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
*Sigh* ... Ok. I laid out why the pushback existed but it isn't JUST "black Israelites"... Most black people (especially Christians) are annoyed by those idiots.
And the reason we had afrocentrism is because we were taught, for the LONGEST, that Africa was dirty and Africans were stupid and such. Then many stories came to the forefront thanks to African scholars bringing it to the community that we had great kings and queens and warriors throughout Africa... Many of us (like the vast majority) could look at where our ancestors came from and we could see that they had wide ranging civilizations and travel and ... So much more than we were made to think about the continent of our origin.
That, coupled with how Hollywood portrayed the stories of our history, here and abroad, are why the pushback and "Cleo was black" narratives exist.
It isn't as simple as you're making it out to be.
Do you get what I'm saying?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I get what you are saying and know all about that. But that form of fictional pushback is still false and should be tossed out, not perpetuated by this narcissistic crackpot.
You don't fight falsehoods with more falsehoods. Proper education is key.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It is ... The fact still remains that it's a belief rooted in wanting to have a celebrated historical figure... Because in most history classes (and I'm not counting Hollywood) the celebrated historical figures in Africa were white... Like Alexander, Cleopatra, etc.
The only thing I know about Mansa Musa was his vast wealth. The only thing I know about the Dahomey is that their women warriors were feared in that region of Africa and that they were complicit in the transatlantic slave trade. The only thing I know about the African Queens I posted is just what their names are. I'm betting most people on this board wouldn't be able to, from memory, tell me anything about them.
I wish our ancestral history was as celebrated as the majority population of the US and Canada... It isn't. The majority population set the narrative of who is and who isn't celebrated or well known. That's BASICALLY why we have Black History Month...
Shoot .. y'all didn't even WANT me to keep posting in my old Black History Month thread. So I stopped. I wasn't going to keep posting in a thread the majority of the board rejected.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Those black "Hollywood royalty" being gatekeepers to said history on film to the masses, are also doing a disservice. They need to do better, and by better, is accurate history. There is plenty to pull from.
Otherwise, it's no better than the whitewashing of yesteryear.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
The Dahomey thing is interesting. It was a kingdom in West Africa, a region where the ancestors of today's African-Americans DID come from. Yet even with that story, they felt the need to completely butcher and sanitize the true story to tell their own feel-good narrative. It's not even about skin color apparently, but a narrative they are pushing.
Anyway, I don't really care what people think they need to feel good about themselves. While obviously history is vague about a lot of things, you still need to base the analysis in facts. This is one of those things we are actually pretty clear about. I can't cast a Puerto Rican guy as a Chinese emperor just because my Spanish ancestors shared a landmass with him at some point. I mean, I guess I COULD, it would be hilarious, but it wouldn't go over well.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
The Patriot was rooted in the time but wasn't really accurate... Yet it's celebrated as an historical epic. Same with Braveheart... And it fudged a lot of the historical facts. This is a thing in Hollywood PERIOD! The Woman King was a good movie. That's MY opinion. But how many movies would sell well if you are 100% accurate about the history? The fact is a lot of the heroes in movies were scoundrels in real life. So we fictionalize them. Lincoln actually didn't want to free the slaves but it was politically advantageous to do so. He still thought that white people were superior and shouldn't mix with the lower people (blacks). King was a serial cheater. Fredrick Douglass constantly cheated on his black wife and treated her like shit while galavanting with white women.
No one would cheer these folks on. Movies are about entertainment. Not education (though there is always some educational value in them)
About The Woman King... Here's what they got accurately: there really was a push to end the slave trade and push the trade of palm oil and they actually did end their part in the slave trade for a time and relied almost solely on the palm oil trade (the Fly Party, including the Agojie warriors, was for the ending of the slave trade while the elephant party wasn't... The elephant party included the king); they were under the thumb of the Oyo tribe and the battle with the Oyo at the end of the film also happened; King Ghezo was a real person but, like most of the movie, he was FOR the slave trade.
Just like any movie "inspired by a true story", it's for entertainment and to tell a story with some fictionalized history with actual history sprinkled throughout.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
No, they are not. They were well-known fiction. Not celebrated for any historical accuracies other than setting and set pieces.
You're reaching now.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Dude... I'm talking about the normie movie-going audience. Not academics. Historical epic doesn't mean "100% historically accurate!"
Titanic could be classified as an historical epic. So could tons of movies!
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What does this have to do with what I said about the gatekeepers failing with the Cleopatra thing, instead of focusing on actual historical accuracy or other actual black queens? She legit said she was politically motivated to make a statement about the race swap, then the gall to call it a "documentary series." That is a slap to the face and downright patronizing. Part of the problem, not the solution.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Hollywood is still like 80% run by white people. They're the heads of the studios, the majority of the writers, the decision makers and the controllers of the purse. Like I said earlier, light skin is still considered more marketable than darker skin. That seems to be changing with more actors like Lakeith Stanfield and Issa Rae in roles and other positions.
Hollywood is still gatekeeping these things. The few black or other POC in Hollywood don't have that much power to do all you're suggesting.
And I wouldn't call it racism either... It's more "this is what I know and am comfortable with financially so I won't be greenlighting this or that".
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Count how many big budget Hollywood movies you have seen with a majority black or Asian or Native American or Latino cast ... Or how many have been that aren't about the civil rights movement? Hollywood is about green... They are SLOW to change.
I'm trying to give you a different perspective... Why are you fighting me on this?