jackissocool
Member
Believable. I could see it going either way.
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New Clues In Sony Hack Point To Insiders, Away from North Korea
- Thread starter Funky Papa
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Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Not that I'm believing this thesis either, but Norse is hardly a "random" security company. They are making a huge amount of noise and they are considered one of the hottest security startups out there. According to them, the traces linking the attack to North Korea were nothing but decoys.
ComputerMKII
Banned
I would trust any company over the US government
The North Korea blaming seemed like media hype to begin with way back to the trailer they released in June or July.
FBI's claim was probably an intentional red herring as they continue their investigation.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
What if Sony said it was North Korea? They're a company.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
the only reason I have always been hesitant in thinking NK was behind the hack, was because, alot of the information leaked, were things only someone familiar with american entertainment/hollywood/sony would find relevant to the american people. The hackers knew exactly how to hurt sony with the hacks as if it was something more than a Random group of hackers from another country with no inside knowledge of the inner workings of Sony.
and the Info leaked fast, as if the understanding of it was there already.
Which is why these Theories arent surprising to me.
and the Info leaked fast, as if the understanding of it was there already.
Which is why these Theories arent surprising to me.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Don't buy it. But I won't dismiss it. Let's see where it leads.
OrangeYouGlad
Banned
The SVP even says their evidence isn't conclusive... and goes on to make a connection to The Pirate Bay.
Patapwn
Member
Haven't you seen the interview? Best Dictator likes katy perry
OT: OP why would you post this nonsense?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The thing is... I've noticed the security+hack communities have strong bias towards not trusting the FBI and coming up with self-styled alternative theories. Plus this being the biggest hack story in years means alternative theories are a dime a dozen.
I'm not saying this is an uninformed theory - it does seem plausible. But the very existence of such alternative theories is not surprising in the slightest.
It's like 9/11. So many people watching the story and fingers pointing every which way.
I'm not saying this is an uninformed theory - it does seem plausible. But the very existence of such alternative theories is not surprising in the slightest.
It's like 9/11. So many people watching the story and fingers pointing every which way.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
I don't think so
teruterubozu
Member
Seriously. Even Detective GAF could do better.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Because Norse Security is a well known security company and even if their premise sounds kind of odd, their opinion is worth listening to.
They are hardly Natural News or Prison Planet (although I'm sure they are savouring this report).
If it is true, they're going to need way better "evidence" than that. The article is comically thin on convincing anything. If you're going to overturn an entire governments hypothesis of what caused it, it's gotta be better than what this article says.
This is the summarized version of some of the evidence FBI claims for North Korea:
If this evidence is true, it's far stronger than the case laid out in this OP.
This is the summarized version of some of the evidence FBI claims for North Korea:
If this evidence is true, it's far stronger than the case laid out in this OP.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
im glad you posted it OP. Some people just want to be content with the current theory (which also doesn't really have alot of weight) as opposed to being open to other possibilities, because it just feels better...
Haters gonna hate, Ainters gonna AINT
Pretty much, they've got like 0 real evidence. They're just trying to make waves, it's what start-ups do to get noticed. If you're gonna say the FBI, of all agencies, has it wrong then you definitely need more than this.
They have like no evidence though, they're just looking to get their name out there with this report. No one is going to pay attention to the article that proves them wrong or any sort of retraction, they'll hear this news, not read the article, assume they're just that good and hire them. That's all this is. Unless they did it themselves there's no downside to being wrong and just putting themselves out there.
Oh, you're one of those people.
Fenderputty
Banned
So please propose a reason / motive the US and Sony would have in conspiring about the hacking?
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
I don't know, I'm not the US government. Its not my job to propose or figure out a motive as to why. It just doesn't make sense how it went down, that it was someone that is foreign to America and Sony. Just my opinion and I stated why I thought that. Don't know why you are putting Sony in there, Sony is just as confused as we are, which is obvious by their actions.
GaGaGariya
Banned
Verendus, why?
I mean I am always skeptical to just take the government at face value. But if you are going to overturn the FBI's case, then you need to convincingly not only discredit each piece of evidence the FBI used to connect it to NK, but you need to have infinitely stronger evidence to support the counter theory than "a disgruntled ex-employee has extensive technical knowledge and known connections to some hacktivist groups and one of these guys in this group was connected with a server where the earliest malware from this attack came from."
I mean this is the thinnest circumstantial crap case I've seen. Which is not to say it can't be true, but that wow they need to do better than this garbage. It's like custom fitted for conspiracy theory nonsense.
Is this a serious post? Are you saying that the U.S. government wouldn't lie and make up BS accusations about a country it doesn't like? We have started wars based on lies and accusations that had no proof.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
No man, the FBI and the US government are super honest and have the utmost integrity, ask Nixon doe, the Most honest president ever. They are Rightous bros.
This is the kind of post that ruins discussions. Terrible.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Where's the motive? Everyone already knows what NK is in the US. Are you suggesting they wanted to start a war? What leverage has been gained by accusing North Korea that would not have otherwise been palatable by Americans?
Always-honest
Banned
Booo, it was much more fun when it was North Korea..
Fenderputty
Banned
Your harping on this conspiracy thing enough that one would think you could at least imagine a possible motive.
Right, it's been done before. SO why would we be doing it again, here? More bad NK press? We aint using this as a reason to attack and have currently denied our involvement in counter cyber warfare. So we're not even using this "conspiracy" to public admit to hacking NK back.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
How? I'm just reinforcing what he stated. Your post didn't add anything of value technically.
It pointed out a shitty, disingenuous post that works against constructive, interesting duscussion. It was bad and you should feel bad.
I'm not believing it on face value. But one would hope intentional red herrings wouldn't be standard procedure...
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
My whole thing is, the way it down, it just doesn't make sense that It was people from China/NK, ALONE without anyone on the inside.
The information leaked, the speed that it was leaked, and how it was leaked, just seems like someone on the inside or someone who understood the innerworkings of Sony was apart of it. I mean, is that not plausible? is that not understandable? is that far fetched?
as to why the Government and the FBI would accuse NK? I have no clue. Cause it makes sense that they would actually point to NK based on the movie the Interview and the threats beforehand, and what occurred with that movie.
I don't, but ok. also, you still haven't provided anything of value to this "interesting' discussion except your opinion of me. but whatever makes u feel better I guess
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
According to them they have submitted all their information to the authorities. They are obviously not going to release the data in public fashion, specially since they already outlined the identity of the person who schemed the attack according to them (finding a female, well positioned IT person recently fired from Sony shouldn't be too hard).
They may be a startup aching for some publicity, but they are also in the security business. Reputation (*and* secrecy) are everything in that line of work, and getting themselves involved in something as public as Sony's hacking and fucking up would create a huge stain in their sheet.
Do I believe they are right? Not at all. But again, they are a well known company that earns its bread by providing services such as IPViking, which is designed to track cyber attacks between nations. IT GAF is more than welcome to chime in, but they are not exactly a bunch of Alex Jones' listening nobodies posting from a van. Even if I'm not siding with them, I certainly wouldn't be posting this if it came from Russia Today's investigative journalism team (coughs).
Fenderputty
Banned
The bolded is really the main issue. Believing and insider helped isn't off the wall crazy. Thinking the US and Sony came up with the NK scapegoat for, reasons, is.
You can buy all those backdoors in the black market.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
They probably read an article on the net that said it was probably NK.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
no, I don't believe anything is my point. I'm on the wait and see. I don't need to KNOW what the motives are for accusations cause im still wait and see till there's more evidence. Cause I don't believe either side yet. Im open to speculation. Which is apparent. Don't try to make it seem otherwise
But "gut feelings" isn't evidence. You actually have no clue how familiar those in position in North Korea would be with American/Hollywood culture. You have no clue whatsoever about what speed they'd be able to get it leaked at, and what type of information they'd select in the leak. All of this is you claiming your gut has some real knowledge of how North Korea functions, which is pretty funny considering it's one of the most secretive states in the world.
So even giving your "gut" the right of way here, you then need to produce evidence to cast real doubt on the picture we have.
This is, again, what the FBI says some of the evidence entails (and like all good investigations, they're probably withholding lots more from public view):
FBI said:
Now in order for this counter theory to have weight, it has to show why the above evidence is not sufficient to connect NK to this crime, and it has to have additional newly presented evidence that paints a plausible case for why its alternative theory is more legitimate.
This case in the OP almost entirely consists of.
1. There are disgruntled ex-employees of Sony firings.
2. One of these ex-employees has extensive technical knowledge (what are the odds guys!?)
3. This same ex-employee has some connection to hacktivist groups and has talked with some of them (so do I!?)
4. And one of the members who were in these conversations has a connection to a server where the earliest version of the malware was connected to.
This is, in almost complete summary, all their extremely thin circumstantial evidence. The rest of the nonsense about the "intimate knowledge" about American/Hollywood Culture is conjecture crap not fit for Judge Judy's courtroom, let alone an FBI investigation.
Scapegoating a isolated country to show strength and make a clear statement towards future hackers?
Posting the FBI "evidence" and then complaining about circumstancial. Erm.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
If it was just insiders I don't see why they'd make the threats invoking 9/11. Seems like that would be a really dumb move.
Well, they had to do something about those torture reports.
Why not ask the FBI for some hard, concrete evidence first?
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
This is where you are wrong. I don't need any evidence, because I'm not making a definitive claim. Neither has provided ample evidence to sway me either way....thus why im hesitant to believe either and am open to speculation.
I didn't say definitively one way or the other. I basically said, it doesn't make sense to me because such and such, and this is why. But I am not saying "This is absolutely what happened and this is why"
there is a big difference.
I repeated this numerous times already in the thread. My point is. it's short sighted to just follow the first finger being pointed. Until there's more evidence that is definitive, we can't know for sure.
Can you say 100% without a shadow of doubt, that NK is behind it? probably not. So why act like other theories aren't plausible?
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