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[Chezzymann]

This is probably the first cop thread that I'm not seeing the outrage.

1. Have a gun in your car will ALWAYS escalate a situation if you get pulled over. The only way to deescalate is the inform the officer of the gun immediately. If you don't tell him, the officer will always draw his gun when he see's that you are armed. This will happen regardless of your skin color (and i'm speaking as a minority).

2. Given the fact that the officer already knew about the suspects rap sheet and that he fired at officers before, he had enough reasonable cause to become aggressive. The officer had no way of knowing if the suspect had weapons on his person as well. The suspect then doesn't follow the officers commands and get out of the car towards the officer. The officer only has a split second to react and the man ends up dead.

If you are an ex-con who have fired at police officer before AND have a weapon in your car (most likely illegal) AND don't follow the officers instruction, something bad will probably happen to you regardless of your race.

Honestly, this. Unlike a lot of the other cop stories circiling around I feel this one was justified.

 

[FyreWulff]

what the hell happened to the idea of continuum of force?

if a local cop here in iowa can hang onto a car while someone drives away with him on it, and went perfectly up the continuum of force ( baton -> mace -> tazer -> gun), you sure as hell can do it while standing still on ground.

 

[panty]

The sad part is how people think not strictly complying with what the police tell you to do gives them an excuse to end your life.

Fuck these monsters. They are killing our fellow citizens and not getting punished by the law for it.

I sure as hell don't want any "fellow citizen" around me who has shot people and drives around with a gun.

But maybe you do.

 

[Loofy]

The man clearly wasn't complying and had a gun in his glove box.

Where do people normally keep their guns? in their holster?

And it doesnt look like the cop opened the glove box himself so the suspects must have willingly showed him(cop sees it after he asks for ID)
Not compliant enough I guess.

Honestly, this. Unlike a lot of the other cop stories circiling around I feel this one was justified.

Really? You mean proper procedure wouldnt have been to ask the guy to get on the ground when he had his hands up?

 

[Rafterman]

Driver does what he's told...lives. Passenger plays the fool...dies. You'd think people would learn.

 

[Discotheque]

people really need to stop and ask themselves why they're trying to make this or any shooting 'reasonable' in their mind

deadly force means everything else has failed. everything. a guy with his palms facing toward you doesn't have to die. doesn't matter what the record was or if he was mid-burglary. that's a defenseless person at that moment.

should have been tasered or baton'd or something.

with a ridiculously ironic prior like he has of course he might be a threat, but that's no reason to shoot somebody. cops need to learn that the gun should be a last resort, it's becoming their first these days.

the driver came off a lot smarter than the victim unfortunately though.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

...what did that guy know?

 

[Shamrock7r]

Where do people normally keep their guns? in their holster?

And it doesnt look the cop opened the glove box himself so the suspects must have willingly showed him(cop sees it after he asks for ID)
Not compliant enough I guess.


Really? You mean proper procedure wouldnt have been to ask the guy to get on the ground when he had his hands up?

The theory thrown around is perhaps the ID was in the glove compartment, so when they opened it to get the id, the gun was seen.
Put it in this context though. If you have a gun anywhere in the car, you should tell the officer immediately when they approach. It doesn't seem that they did that. The officer knows that the passenger has prior convictions. He was present at one arrest, and according to reports knew that the passenger was in prison for shooting at State Troopers in the past. It's possible the passenger did not know the driver had a gun int he glovebox, but still, the driver didn't act intelligently at that point in time.

Edit: Although thinking about it, it would be unlikely that the officer knew one of the people in the car had the prior convictions unless the car was in the passenger's name.

 

[Loofy]

Driver does what he's told...lives. Passenger plays the fool...dies. You'd think people would learn.

Maybe the passenger was a fool, like hes actually dumb. Doesnt mean he had to die doing 'hands up, dont shoot.' Though as we've seen before police have no problem getting away with killing defenseless mentally disabled people so its no surprise.

 

[CygnusXS]

So if he stays in the vehicle... then what? The cop eventually asks him to get out of the car with his hands up, right?

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

So if he stays in the vehicle... then what? The cop eventually asks him to get out of the car with his hands up, right?

The driver is removed, searched and detained, then both cops secure the one who is non compliant or is suspected of being armed.


Never got to that point though since passenger remained non compliant.

 

[The Beard]

I noticed the officer never actually told the victim to stay in the car. Just to keep his hands up, which he did even when exiting the car.

How can you exit a car without moving, while your hands are at shoulder height? 2 of the officers commands were ignored in order for him to get out of the vehicle.

I hate Monday morning quarterbacking because my job isn't 1/100 as stressful as this. In hindsight, the man getting out of the car despite the officer telling him repeatedly to stay still, would have been handled much better if the officer took a few steps back, and demanded he lay on the ground. I mean his hands were up, and this was not a life or death situation for the officer.

 

[Broank]

What the heck was going on in there that the officer was spazzing out and cursing every other word?

Settle down and be clear if you are gonna point a gun at someones face.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

They need to train police officers not to fucking panic if they (the police officers) are holding a damn gun.

 

[MikeDown]

Where do people normally keep their guns? in their holster?

And it doesnt look like the cop opened the glove box himself so the suspects must have willingly showed him(cop sees it after he asks for ID)
Not compliant enough I guess.

Go back and watch the video, suspects never informs the officer of having a weapon in the vehicle; only sees it after they reach for ID. I mean it is easy to say in hindsight as to weather or not an officer should use lethal force; police need to understand using a side arm or what have you should be a last resort.

 

[Khaos_Knight]

Bad on both sides.

Bad on the dude for escalating the situation by not following the officer's commands and bad on the cop for immediately shooting the dude.

I can understand the cop's situation a bit.

He saw the gun, he knew the dude had a history of shooting cops and he kept telling the dude to stop moving but he didn't listen.

If I was in that same situation my instincts would tell me to pull the trigger too.

 

[Loofy]

Go back and watch the video, suspects never informs the officer of having a weapon in the vehicle;

Never said they did. Is that against the law?

What the heck was going on in there that the officer was spazzing out and cursing every other word?

Settle down and be clear if you are gonna point a gun at someones face.

Pretty much. We can all analyse a video. But sitting there I imagine the only thing he heard was 'YOURE GONNA BE FUCKING DEAD'

 

[televator]

Driver does what he's told...lives. Passenger plays the fool...dies. You'd think people would learn.

Playing the fool... Punishable by death on the spot. There it is.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Cops should only use their guns if there is an immediate threat to themselves or others. This dude had his hands up and verbalized his intention: he was not an immediate threat.

 

[KHarvey16]

Cops should only use their guns if there is an immediate threat to themselves or others. This dude had his hands up and verbalized his intention: he was not an immediate threat.

The standard for self defense in most places, including the US, is not confirmation or existence of an immediate threat but simply a reasonable belief one exists.

 

[epmode]

The worst part of these threads are the LEAs (or pretend-LEAs) tossing around clinical terminology like "non-compliant" as though it excuses a cop for murdering a guy who had his hands in the air.

 

[Symphonia]

So he clearly has his hands visible and is clearly just panicking and wants to lay on the ground to show he means no harm. Why do they use lethal force again?

Because America.

Seriously, though, American police seem all too happy to pull the trigger, even more so in recent times.

 

[Htown]

Driver does what he's told...lives. Passenger plays the fool...dies. You'd think people would learn.

the fact that you're just cool with this is something you really ought to think about

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

"I'm going to shoot you," Days shouts, at one point addressing Reid by his first name. "You're going to be fucking dead. If you reach for something, you're going to be fucking dead."

 

[GYNGA]

The cop saw a gun and panicked
The cop took the gun as seen at 1:10, but continued panicking for some reason
The cop failed to give clear instructions

Unjustified IMO

 

[Siegcram]

Straight up execution. Nothing else.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

So if he stays in the vehicle... then what? The cop eventually asks him to get out of the car with his hands up, right?

You wait for the officer to give you further instruction on getting out.

Why can't people follow directions? The last thing you want to do is become non-compliant over a panicky officer aiming a gun at you.

 

[Toxi]

I sure as hell don't want any "fellow citizen" around me who has shot people and drives around with a gun.

But maybe you do.

You mean like our boys in blue?

 

[Scottify]

I didn't know if I should've created a new thread or what, but this news just came out.

AP article

A grand jury has voted not to file charges against two police officers for fatally shooting a man who defied orders by stepping out of a car with his hands raised during a traffic stop, a killing captured by their patrol car's dashboard camera, prosecutors said Thursday.

So basically, he came out of the car, with his hands up and still got shot. Yet the grand jury decides against charging the cops. I wish I could say I am shocked but, sadly, I'm not. Truly awful for the family.