The Faceless Master
Member
by getting out, he probably saved the drivers's life.
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New Dashcam footage of NJ Fatal Police shooting
- Thread starter nateeasy
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by getting out, he probably saved the drivers's life.
Doug Heffernan
Member
Why doesn't the cop just reach in and grab the gun to remove the threat?
I can't view the vid but to those saying it was unjustified and the guy had reason to get out of the vehicle to be safe. So that his hands are in the clear, why not just stick your hands out of the window while you wait? What's hard bout following the orders and if anything, sticking your hands out of the window, whether you grab the roof or let them dangle out. Or better, why not leave hands on wheel?
The guy is a felon, the officer knew this, the felon shot cops before, and there was a gun in the car. Yea cops shouldn't fire first but it appears you guys don't asses risk very well.
I do think it sucks the guy was shot, but I'm not gonna lay full blame on the cops judgement in this case.
The guy is a felon, the officer knew this, the felon shot cops before, and there was a gun in the car. Yea cops shouldn't fire first but it appears you guys don't asses risk very well.
I do think it sucks the guy was shot, but I'm not gonna lay full blame on the cops judgement in this case.
Shamrock7r
Member
Yea. It's a damn terrible situation to be in. One of the officer's already new about the guy's prior record, which no doubt already put them on alert, and on edge. We can clearly see what the driver is doing, but not the passenger inside. Big problem, and I have seen this before, is how officer's approach the situation with guns drawn. Yelling and screaming at a person with guns drawn most definitely can lead to that person acting irrational. So the current, most likely scenario/thought process that I can come up with based on the video is, the cop knew of the guy's prior, which put them on alert, then saw the gun in the glove compartment, which only made the cop more on edge and scared, started screaming at the guy in the car. Guy in the car gets scared, irrationally makes the terrible decision to get out of the car. Cop is telling him to stay still. It looks like there is a struggle between the cop and the guy with the door. Guy wins out, door is forcibly pushed open. Cop, fearing for his life, makes a too quick decision to shoot the man as he exits with his hands raised. Tragic, and I am still trying to gather how I feel about this.
I was wondering that myself. Drivers license had to be in the glovebox for the reaction of the officer to be delayed like that.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
If the Brown shooting was any indication, he could be accused of trying to grab or choke the cop.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
There would be a cop thread the day I get back from being banned in a cop thread. I'll keep it cute.... today.
The only people who shouldn't be laying judgement are the cops, because they are neither judge, nor jury, nor executioner.
Coming out of a car with your hands up is neither threatening nor illegal. The cop doesn't get to take in all the events of that person's life and decide whether they get to live or die on that basis.
King Cobra
Banned
So the guy is a felon and has done over 10 years for shooting a cop. He lies about no weapons being in the car and refuses to comply to an officer that is giving very crystal clear instructions. Then after a a minute of the cop struggling to get the door open he just gets out despite being told to not move. All of this in the dead of night.
Yeah I am finding it really hard to see how the police officer could have reacted any better. He felt his life was in danger especially with someone who has shot a cop before.
Yeah I am finding it really hard to see how the police officer could have reacted any better. He felt his life was in danger especially with someone who has shot a cop before.
You can never know with this people, they can use a voodoo telekinetic choke hold.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Was he asked if there was a weapon?
What was that?
the gun was in the guy's face. you could see him trying to get one hand out. couldn't get both out because the cop was shouting in his face and had the gun 2 feet away from his head
but your mind's made up anyways. risk asses the guy with his hands up
again - if the cop plays the part of a scared guy doing his job then he shoots the passenger the moment his door moves
Yeah, that about sums it up for me too.
Again, this is with someone pointing a gun at your face, not everyone is going to be thinking rationally in those situations. Door was opened so maybe he assumed he was meant to get out. If he wanted to be intentionally hostile then he wouldn't have had his hands up. Cop could certainly have reacted better. No one had to die here.
Was it a case of the cop struggling to stop the guy opening the door or was it a case of the cop trying to open the door himself?
Never change gaf. Expected responses in here. You can see after the officer says he is reaching the the passengers left arm comes up from the center console area at 1:38 in the video. The passenger then forces his way out of the car after the officer tells him not too. The passenger, who has shot at officers before and knows how to act around officers, didn't listen to the officer at all. Notice how the driver has both hands out the window? That's how someone who doesn't want harm to themselves or the officer acts. This is a justified shooting all day.
I give proms to the OP for not using a bait title like the YouTube video and for posting an informative article not leaving out info.
I give proms to the OP for not using a bait title like the YouTube video and for posting an informative article not leaving out info.
Shamrock7r
Member
I was wondering that. What leads me to believe it's the former is the conversation beforehand. The guy is saying "I am coming out with my hands raised" and the officer repeatedly says "no you're not", and then you see the officer shifting back and forth while holding the door. The door looks to be shaking/moving. The door is then pushed or thrown open. It's not for certain because the video isn't clear, but that seems what most likely happened.
I watched the video and the officer approached the car very calmly but suddenly freaked out. Apparently, because of the gun. You are always supposed to inform if you have a firearm inside the vehicle. Then there is some movement apparently, the passenger refuses to comply with the orders and it also seems like he forced himself out.
I don't know if this is a justified shooting but it is definitely not a clear-cut scenario. The driver clearly complied and had both hands out the window, remained calm throughout the ordeal.
I don't know if this is a justified shooting but it is definitely not a clear-cut scenario. The driver clearly complied and had both hands out the window, remained calm throughout the ordeal.
King Cobra
Banned
This guy has shot a cop before I think its very safe to assume that this isn't the first time he has seen a gun so he was was mortified with fear after seeing the officers handgun doesn't really make sense when you read about the guys past. And even if he had a clean record, it's not hard to mistake "dont move" for move around with a gun inside your glove compartment.
I've been pulled over and I have a gun in my glove compartment. First thing I tell the officer when he asks me for my paperwork is that I have a firearm if he doesn't ask me first.
1.07
'Get 'em out the car Rodge(?) we got a gun in his glove compartment'
Lots of don't move. Guy says he's not moving, officer tells him to not to move (This is where context is really important. The victim obviously believes movements toward the gun which prompts the officers into their frenzy is likely to get him shot, not just movement in general - especially if it conforms with the earlier remark to get them out of the car. He was complying after all!) Door opens. He leaves door and gets shot.
How are you people saying this is okay?
'Get 'em out the car Rodge(?) we got a gun in his glove compartment'
Lots of don't move. Guy says he's not moving, officer tells him to not to move (This is where context is really important. The victim obviously believes movements toward the gun which prompts the officers into their frenzy is likely to get him shot, not just movement in general - especially if it conforms with the earlier remark to get them out of the car. He was complying after all!) Door opens. He leaves door and gets shot.
How are you people saying this is okay?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Man has history of shooting at police, along with multiple arrests, already has possession of a firearm (in car he's in) and doesn't listen to cop telling him not to move.
Yeah, seems pretty much justified.
Yeah, seems pretty much justified.
how is this guy supposed to get both of his hands out the window with a cop pointing a gun in his face through said window?
explain that
again, he could have been a nazi from the moon. doesn't matter
Big Baybee
Member
What does he do when he exits the vehicle?
This wouldn't fly in court even if the police choked him to death on camera.
For fuck's sake, do you think this sounds reasonable?
The Faceless Master
Member
notice how the driver doesn't have a cop halfway in his window in the process of executing him?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
"Get him out of the car" is referring to the driver.
And he "leaves the door" at the damned cop telling him not to move while a gun is infront of him.
Notice how the gun isn't infront of him and his arms are outside the car?
The Faceless Master
Member
this won't get to court.
after all of the other things cops did on video, this ain't shit brah.
was a gun in your face when you typed this?
The Faceless Master
Member
i think i realize what he did wrong here.
he didn't shoot first!
i mean, there was a gun in the glove box... sure, he's not driving, but hey... he's been known to shoot at cops first... the real problem is he let them shoot him instead of shooting first. he should have known.
that's gotta be it right guys?!!? guys!??! gals? no?
he didn't shoot first!
i mean, there was a gun in the glove box... sure, he's not driving, but hey... he's been known to shoot at cops first... the real problem is he let them shoot him instead of shooting first. he should have known.
that's gotta be it right guys?!!? guys!??! gals? no?
Pickles Spill
Member
Is Gaoler's comment invalid since he doesn't have a gun pointed at his face?
First point is possible, also grounds for confusion on victim's part.
On the second point he did so with his hands up. He couldn't reach for his white flag, the other internationally universal sign of surrender without getting shot you see.
Does the officer think he's in Equilibrium? Maybe the suspect had guns in his sleeves?!
Why don't you apply the same levels of critique to the actions of the officer? How he could have done better?
I'm still wrangling with the idea that stepping out of a car can get you shot in America.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
Maybe we shouldn't have such chicken shit pussies on the police force. If a guy getting out of a car causes you to fear for your life perhaps you shouldn't be in a line of work that has inherent risks.
That's irrelevant. He was within attacking distance of the officer, it was a heated situation with a weapon involved, failed to listen to instructions, officer fired in fear of his life.
Whether or not the suspect was armed becomes irrelevant when it comes to police shootings if the officer can prove that any reasonable person would have reacted in the same fashion as the officer with the facts provided, it is enough.
The same applies to people that get shot with cellphones, pens, unarmed, etc... If an officer has any reason to believe you were armed, you fail to listen to instructions, and move toward the officer or do any movement not instructed by the officer, you will be shot. The officer only has to prove that there were 3 factors present 1) Fear on behalf of the officer for his life (weapon confiscated is enough in this case), 2) Immediacy, the officer had to act quickly and 3) reasonable, that any reasonable person with the facts that officer had at the time would have pulled the trigger.
Pickles Spill
Member
It's not "just" someone getting out of a car. It's someone who has shot three people previously, and someone who has been arrested previously by the same cop, and it's someone who has a weapon in the glovebox in front of him.
no one is still telling me why the cop didn't just unload on the guy the instant the door started to open since he was so scared
tell me im wrong lol
its a lot easier to tell who's talking to who when you're not about to die
tell me im wrong lol
Are you saying every black man that has a gun in a car with him is dead if the police find it?
Because that is insane.
They border on the ramblings of a madman.
Don't forget though, this guy has a criminal history, probably up to no good on the same night. Fuck, even if he murdered someone earlier in the night - the manner in which the officer dealt with that situation is completely wrong.
http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/fatal-police-shootings
^I can't even imagine what it must be like interacting with police in the US. I'd probably have been shot for having a smart mouth by now.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
It's a lot easier to Monday morning quarter back events like this.
Tell me I'm wrong.
Also, he wasn't about to die until he kept doing the opposite of what the cop was telling him.
NullPointer
Member
Yep, looks like an open and shut execution.
King Cobra
Banned
I get it, if you make a pathetic attempt at a strawman argument and make the opposing opinions seem as absurd as possible maybe your own opinion will be validated right? Maybe the offier should have come up to the passenger side in a monks robe with a daisy in hand to put in the barrel of the gun in the glove compartment right?
That is a very brave thing for you to say, sometimes the internet makes you blind to the ridiculous demands we make of others who are putting their lives on the line every single day while we're in the comfort of our armchairs.
Don't tread on my second amendment rights. The officer could take the gun and determine if it is licensed but that doesn't give them the right to assume the citizen is an immediate threat.
I'll repeat
Their job at the time was to give a ticket not a death sentence.
Also.
Since he's 36 that was about 20 years ago. Anyone who thinks that's relevant now with an adult who hasn't repeated the offense from when they were kid transitioning into adulthood is out of line.
As I said before the officer told him not to move but think rationally.
The gun sparked all of this off, he was told not to move, whilst the officer fumbles opening a door, door opens and he moves out of the door. Away from the gun, he CAN'T move toward the gun, gesture toward it, look at it, hold it OUTSIDE of the car.
Do you feel me?
Pickles Spill
Member
Every single person in this thread is doing it so there's absolutely no reason anyone should be pointing fingers.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
The cop removed the gun, unless I'm seeing things. His concern was this guy was still armed AND not following instructions.
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