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[mapet318]

It looks like Nintendo created a problem where there was none before. Star Fox's issues in the past have been one content and level design. Controls were never a problem. Yet instead of addressing what should have been addressed going by the footage they have released they decided to possibly screw up the one thing they did well with the series.

You said it perfectly. It blows my mind that controls can even be an issue. Look, Nintendo, you don't have to convince us how ingenious the gamepad is. That boat has already sailed and nobody cares anymore. Smash, Fucking DK, Bayo 2, Mario Kart, 3D World - none of these games requires anything special from the gamepad. Why purposefully complicate things when it is clearly putting the game in jeopardy?

 

[mclem]

Oh Star Fox has Amiibo support? My Wolf Amiibo is finally getting some use then
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...

Spoiler

:'-( Sakurai why

It seems appropriate that in the Smash in which they removed Solid Snake, they also removed Grey Fox.

 

[evilromero]

Troubling news for sure. I'm hoping it gets delayed and pushed to a fall release. At this point just get the goddamn controls right.

 

[Diffense]

I don't think the two screens should be a huge issue by itself. Switching from 3rd person to 1st person mode is a pretty common thing in games and I think there is a option to switch the screens (i.e send the 1st person view to the TV and back).

That said, there is quite a bit to manage: altitude, heading, where you're aiming and two screens all in a pretty fast paced action game. Based on e3 reports the game isn't gyro-only because you still have to turn with the R-stick (similar to Splatoon) while the L-stick controls your elevation. It seems as if the gyros just move the aiming reticle around in the ship's cockpit view. You're always moving forward since Star Fox is mostly on rails.

Hopefully, if there are problems they're more related to the implementation than the concept and the devs are able to get it right. I still want to try it.

 

[Oddduck]

Nintendo Life asked Liam Robertson to elaborate on the rumor...

We've since contacted Robertson directly and he's elaborated a little more. He says that Nintendo's QA department is very concerned with how players will react to the "complex" motion controls - which have come under fire in the past - and that the entire project feels "disjointed". Platinum is of course involved, but Robertson has heard that the bulk of development is being handled by Shigeru Miyamoto's team. The team responsible for Mario Kart 8's maligned battle mode is in charge of multiplayer, according to Robertson's sources.

I'm going to guess that motion controls aren't the sole problem with the game.

From what I can tell, the bigger problem is when you combine dual screen gameplay with motion controls.

 

[Trevelyan]

Nintendo Life asked Liam Robertson to elaborate on the rumor...



I'm going to guess that motion controls aren't the sole problem with the game.

From what I can tell, the bigger problem is when you combine dual screen gameplay with motion controls.

Which I don't get why that would be an issue. If you were to put a FP mode for Splatoon on the gamepad, you would have the exact same thing, and I absolutely adore Splatoon's motion controls.

Perhaps there's more to it or I'm missing something, but I just don't see how the motion controls would be such a major problem.

 

[Jonneh3003]

I don't mind when we get this, just as long as its great. Give it all the delays it needs and I'll be there day 1.

 

[kunonabi]

I'm hopeful it will come together a faster paced hybrid of Metroid Blast's gunbird controls and Game & Wario's Taxi concept sounds amazing to me.

 

[Kandinsky]

Killing the cockpit/gamepad mode would be great as long as they use the extra power to upgrade the game's graphics, I want spectacle!.

 

[LegendofLex]

I'm going to guess that motion controls aren't the sole problem with the game.

From what I can tell, the bigger problem is when you combine dual screen gameplay with motion controls.

As someone who took to the controls very, very strongly, this isn't a game that's going to go over well with the masses. It definitely isn't a game that'll focus test well, since the controls need to click with you for the game as a whole to work.

The way I see the controls is like this - almost all of the time it's like a traditional Star Fox game with gyro aiming: fly with the control stick, aim the crosshairs with gyro. Simple.

The "dual-screen" stuff is mostly contextual (though you have access to the cockpit view at all times), and the context is mostly forced. "Oh, you're engaging a giant boss? The camera on the main screen is going to lock you out of the view you want, so you need to switch to the cockpit view."

It's the excessive focus on the second screen as a key pillar of the gameplay (rather than a helpful tool when engaging large bosses with multiple destructible weapons/weak points, navigating tight spaces, etc.) that's throwing this game off. People get frustrated when they're forced to use it, and even worse they feel like the game is forcing them to use it even when it's not.

Personally, I'd have nixed the cockpit view altogether, or at the very least eliminated it as an always-on feature of the GamePad, so people realize "oh, it's something that's useful in certain situations, but I'm not being pressured to use it." I definitely would have gotten rid of any forced usage when piloting the standard vehicles.

 

[GhostTrick]

Killing the cockpit/gamepad mode would be great as long as they use the extra power to upgrade the game's graphics, I want spectacle!.

At this point, they should kill the whole game and remake it.

 

[TheJoRu]

Nintendo Life asked Liam Robertson to elaborate on the rumor...

Ok, now this raised an eyebrow for me. Some of this is sounding way too convenient. All the "doubling down on motion controls", "Shigeru Miyamoto's team" (does he have a team?) and "you know that MK8 battle mode you didn't like? Well, guess who's making Star Fox Zero multiplayer??" It's like it was made to rile people up.

If the source is legit then obviously he or she knows more than any of us, but I just find it so perfect that there's supposedly a "battle mode team" and they specifically got those people to make the multiplayer. Maybe everything here is true (the source is supposedly very reliable, so it probably is oh, they weren't even talking about the source in the article, just Robertson, so not quite as reliable then); I just can't help getting thrown off at the way some of this is worded and what a perfectly stitched together disaster story this is becoming.

 

[Ridley327]

The multiplayer rumor seems sketchy as hell, seeing as it's just a regular Mario Kart race with one added element. Why would there be an additional team working on that?

 

[wild wild rice]

I have a hard time taking some of these rumors seriously. Adding multiplayer would make sense given how the social elements of Splatoon and Mario Maker made them such big successes.

 

[Diffense]

I haven't played it but I liked the concept and I was happy with the explanations of the controls given at E3. I hope they don't dumb it down if the major concern is accessibility. Nintendo games are generally too easy anyway.

We knew long ago that there would be cooperative multiplayer in which one person aims and the other steers but that hardly seems like something that would require another team. While that sounds like a fun option for local play, I always thought the lack of any online battle mode was missed opportunity. I'd be 100% on board with competitive multiplayer.

BTW, here's the in-game explanation of the controls:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFCegtLVi00

 

[KingSnake]

Which I don't get why that would be an issue. If you were to put a FP mode for Splatoon on the gamepad, you would have the exact same thing, and I absolutely adore Splatoon's motion controls.

Perhaps there's more to it or I'm missing something, but I just don't see how the motion controls would be such a major problem.

Splatoon works very well because you look just at one screen, having one perspective and you don't have the movement and shooting disjointed. Imagine having to look at one screen to move and to look down at gamepad to fire, it's a whole different level of complexity that it's not really needed because it adds nothing to the fun. I can imagine you could end up in situations when you get totally different views on main screen and gamepad and pushing one direction on the analog while moving gamepad on the other direction, it can create some strange situations.

It could work wonderfully in co-op, but it doesn't really make sense in SP.

 

[maxcriden]

I don't think the two screens should be a huge issue by itself. Switching from 3rd person to 1st person mode is a pretty common thing in games and I think there is a option to switch the screens (i.e send the 1st person view to the TV and back).

That said, there is quite a bit to manage: altitude, heading, where you're aiming and two screens all in a pretty fast paced action game. Based on e3 reports the game isn't gyro-only because you still have to turn with the R-stick (similar to Splatoon) while the L-stick controls your elevation. It seems as if the gyros just move the aiming reticle around in the ship's cockpit view. You're always moving forward since Star Fox is mostly on rails.

Hopefully, if there are problems they're more related to the implementation than the concept and the devs are able to get it right. I still want to try it.

It really sounds like a mess...I mean I've seen footage and it doesn't look quite as frenzied to control when you see it in motion but OTOH since the levels are remakes of SF64 levels I can't help but get the impression I'm seeing harder-to-control versions of SF64 levels.

Even if you turn with the R-stick and the L-stick controls elevation, that means...the gyro would control just what the R-stick controls, too, right? So you could use either or both? As you said, very similar to Splatoon. The difference I think here is that in Splatoon you're controlling something on the ground so you might not feel like you need as precise control...and then in SF you're in space...and on rails. Being on rails makes it sound like less precise control would be needed, but counter-intuitively I think more precisely control is needed when on rails since you are also in a sense fighting to get certain things done before the rails pull you too far forward to accomplish them.

One thing I really foresee being an issue is being encouraged to look down at the GamePad view for precision when playing the game. The biggest mistake of the Wii U is when Nintendo tries to use it as a giant DS with the top screen on the TV and the bottom of the screen as the GamePad. For most games I don't think people are eager to hold, or comfortable with holding, the GamePad up parallel to their TV when playing.

pictured: Nintendo executive seen holding GamePad parallel to the floor

It's just not comfortable to hold up the GamePad the whole time like that, nor is it realistic to expect players to do so. So you get situations like in Zelda above where glancing down for a sec to look at the map or inventory makes sense, but then in something like Star Fox Zero you've got the "ideal" way to play as I understand it being one where you hold the GamePad up at times (or all the time, perhaps?) and look back and forth between screens. I don't think that makes sense for a TV-based game. It's a half-measure kind of method of play that I am confident and hopeful Nintendo will move past with NX.

pictured: Nintendo luminary demonstrates worthwhile and well-conceived use of GamePad

Splatoon works very well because you look just at one screen, having one perspective even and you don't have the movement and shooting disjointed. Imagine having to look at one screen to move and to look down at gamepad to fire, it's a whole different level of complexity that it's not really needed because it adds nothing to the fun. I can imagine you could end up in situations when you might end up with totally different views on main screen and gamepad and pushing one direction on the analog while moving gamepad on the other direction, it can create some strange situations.

It could work wonderfully in co-op, but it doesn't really make sense in SP.

Well said, and 100% agreed. I meant to address this aspect, too. Thank you.

 

[LegendofLex]

That said, there is quite a bit to manage: altitude, heading, where you're aiming and two screens all in a pretty fast paced action game. Based on e3 reports the game isn't gyro-only because you still have to turn with the R-stick (similar to Splatoon) while the L-stick controls your elevation. It seems as if the gyros just move the aiming reticle around in the ship's cockpit view. You're always moving forward since Star Fox is mostly on rails.

It really sounds like a mess...I mean I've seen footage and it doesn't look quite as frenzied to control when you see it in motion but OTOH since the levels are remakes of SF64 levels I can't help but get the impression I'm seeing harder-to-control versions of SF64 levels.

The bolded is incorrect; the aiming reticle you see on the TV is the same one you see in the cockpit view. The main differences between this and Star Fox 64, from a controls perspective, are that:

1) the cockpit view that you can use in Star Fox 64 is always present on the GamePad, even when you haven't toggled the perspective

2) with the gyro input, the aiming reticle can move independently of the control stick you use to fly

You can combine 1 + 2 to get some really precise hits on objects that are difficult to target with the standard Star Fox movement+aiming scheme and field of view. Most people seem to be under the impression that the game requires this of you, but it doesn't; the only time the demo ever forced you to use the cockpit view was during the boss battle on Corneria, since the TV camera was locked on the boss at all times. At all other times, you can just keep your eyes on the TV and use the gyro to point your aiming reticle anywhere on screen regardless of which direction you're flying.

Source: I played this game like a pro at E3, after seeing where lots of people were struggling and adapting

 

[Aostia]

Shadowy as hell honestly. Imho a rumor pumping on hardcore gamers dislike of new control schemes

I played an early demo and was able to master the controls in about 15 minutes...

I have seen people having troubles with the same demo but.. it reminded me about similar issues back in the wii days with the waggle meme. ..

 

[Mugiwara]

I do think for a title that's supposed to be out in a few months that the lack of any promotion on Nintendo's part is troubling and not a good sign.

 

[KingWool]

Source: I played this game like a pro at E3, after seeing where lots of people were struggling and adapting

Congratulations you are the 1%. Control schemes should come natural and here it does not.

 

[Oddduck]

Does Nintendo currently have any other Wii U games planned for April through August?

If they delay Star Fox, I can't see it releasing any sooner than September. First they would need a few months to fix whatever problems Star Fox is running into. After fixing SF0's problems, they would need another month to test everything and put it through QA / certification (again). Also, Nintendo of America usually doesn't release games in July.

 

[GhostTrick]

Shadowy as hell honestly. Imho a rumor pumping on hardcore gamers dislike of new control schemes

I played an early demo and was able to master the controls in about 15 minutes...

I have seen people having troubles with the same demo but.. it reminded me about similar issues back in the wii days with the waggle meme. ..

Let's be fair, the game is supposedly coming in 2 months and there's not that much details available. Not only the controls sounds like a bad idea, but everything about this game feels misguided, unambitious and low budget.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

It really sounds like a mess...I mean I've seen footage and it doesn't look quite as frenzied to control when you see it in motion but OTOH since the levels are remakes of SF64 levels I can't help but get the impression I'm seeing harder-to-control versions of SF64 levels.

Even if you turn with the R-stick and the L-stick controls elevation, that means...the gyro would control just what the R-stick controls, too, right? So you could use either or both? As you said, very similar to Splatoon. The difference I think here is that in Splatoon you're controlling something on the ground so you might not feel like you need as precise control...and then in SF you're in space...and on rails. Being on rails makes it sound like less precise control would be needed, but counter-intuitively I think more precisely control is needed when on rails since you are also in a sense fighting to get certain things done before the rails pull you too far forward to accomplish them.

One thing I really foresee being an issue is being encouraged to look down at the GamePad view for precision when playing the game. The biggest mistake of the Wii U is when Nintendo tries to use it as a giant DS with the top screen on the TV and the bottom of the screen as the GamePad. For most games I don't think people are eager to hold, or comfortable with holding, the GamePad up parallel to their TV when playing.

It's just not comfortable to hold up the GamePad the whole time like that, nor is it realistic to expect players to do so. So you get situations like in Zelda above where glancing down for a sec to look at the map or inventory makes sense, but then in something like Star Fox Zero you've got the "ideal" way to play as I understand it being one where you hold the GamePad up at times (or all the time, perhaps?) and look back and forth between screens. I don't think that makes sense for a TV-based game. It's a half-measure kind of method of play that I am confident and hopeful Nintendo will move past with NX.

So basically it controls like Metroid Blast from Nintendo Land?

That's...not ideal for me.

 

[KingWool]

Let's be fair, the game is supposedly coming in 2 months and there's not that much details available. Not only the controls sounds like a bad idea, but everything about this game feels misguided, unambitious and low budget.

Almost a way to describe the Wii U....This system and its software has just been an all around mess. Very sad for a huge Nintendo fan like myself to see all of this

 

[Ridley327]

Does Nintendo currently have any other Wii U games planned for April through August?

If they delay Star Fox, I can't see it releasing any sooner than September. First they would need one or two months to fix whatever problems Star Fox is running into. After fixing SF0's problems, they would need another month to test everything and put it through QA (again). Also, Nintendo of America usually doesn't release games in July.

I think the Wii U version of the new Mario & Sonic at the Olympics is tentatively an August title. That being said, we don't have dates for anything past April right now, even for known forthcoming titles like the DQs and #FE.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Let's be fair, the game is supposedly coming in 2 months and there's not that much details available. Not only the controls sounds like a bad idea, but everything about this game feels misguided, unambitious

Not as unambitious as people that want it to be prettier with standard controls.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Almost a way to describe the Wii U....This system and its software has just been an all around mess. Very sad for a huge Nintendo fan like myself to see all of this

The Wii U has some of the greatest Nintendo games of all time.

Not as unambitious as people that want it to be prettier with standard controls.

How is the motion control scheme ambitious?

 

[Aostia]

I do think for a title that's supposed to be out in a few months that the lack of any promotion on Nintendo's part is troubling and not a good sign.

This happens very often with nintendo, especially if they have other games coming, aka Zelda tp

Congratulations you are the 1%. Control schemes should come natural and here it does not.

So I am another 1%, so we already are at 2% XD

 

[Coffee Dog]

Confirming that it's those dastardly villains on the MK8 battle mode team screams of looking for things to shit on the game for.

The problem with MK8's battle mode wasn't the mode itself. Battle mode was fine. The problem was that they decided the mode wasn't worth unique maps. Hyping them up as supervillains doesn't mean anything.

 

[LegendofLex]

Congratulations you are the 1%. Control schemes should come natural and here it does not.

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing that this game is in a far from ideal state, even if I could play it without any issues myself.

But at the same time, I'm happy to point out any misconceptions people have about how the controls are actually designed to work, since I was able to use them pretty successfully.

So basically it controls like Metroid Blast from Nintendo Land?

That's...not ideal for me.

No.

It controls like a Star Fox game, but you can aim the reticle anywhere you want independent of the control stick using gyro.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Congratulations you are the 1%. Control schemes should come natural and here it does not.

Shockingly, I don't believe that if my grandma struggles to play the game it's a damning accusation. Learning curves on controls are fine, aiming with analog sticks don't come natural either. It requires tons of practice.

 

[wild wild rice]

Shadowy as hell honestly. Imho a rumor pumping on hardcore gamers dislike of new control schemes

I played an early demo and was able to master the controls in about 15 minutes...

I have seen people having troubles with the same demo but.. it reminded me about similar issues back in the wii days with the waggle meme. ..

Good points. Some of my favorite games are ones where there is a bit of a learning curve to the controls. The fun of a game can come from mastering the controls. I can't write this game off because of a few rumors and opinions from people who haven't played it.

Almost a way to describe the Wii U....This system and its software has just been an all around mess. Very sad for a huge Nintendo fan like myself to see all of this

Eh, Wii U easily has the best software lineup this gen, but I respect opinions. The hardware of course leaves something to be desired.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I don't think any further delays are going to fix a game that seems to be flawed at its most basic level. Just release the game. I've already accepted that Star Fox is probably a dead IP after this game launches.

 

[KingSnake]

The bolded is incorrect; the aiming reticle you see on the TV is the same one you see in the cockpit view. The main differences between this and Star Fox 64, from a controls perspective, are that:

1) the cockpit view that you can use in Star Fox 64 is always present on the GamePad, even when you haven't toggled the perspective

2) with the gyro input, the aiming reticle can move independently of the control stick you use to fly

You can combine 1 + 2 to get some really precise hits on objects that are difficult to target with the standard Star Fox movement+aiming scheme and field of view. Most people seem to be under the impression that the game requires this of you, but it doesn't; the only time the demo ever forced you to use the cockpit view was during the boss battle on Corneria, since the TV camera was locked on the boss at all times. At all other times, you can just keep your eyes on the TV and use the gyro to point your aiming reticle anywhere on screen regardless of which direction you're flying.

Source: I played this game like a pro at E3, after seeing where lots of people were struggling and adapting

You played a demo. We don't know how much in the later levels are you forced to look at the gamepad because you don't have the proper view on the main screen. I would be very surprised if that's not the case, because it beats the whole purpose of the game's existence then. If the rumour is to be believed, we're talking about more than a boss battle.

And if it is the case that you can play 90% of the game just on the main screen, did the trade-off for bad graphics worth it in the end?

 

[maxcriden]

So basically it controls like Metroid Blast from Nintendo Land?

That's...not ideal for me.

I don't think it's quite the same. I thought that with Metroid Blast you look exclusively at the GamePad or exclusively at the TV, depending on which player you are.

 

[Aostia]

Let's be fair, the game is supposedly coming in 2 months and there's not that much details available. Not only the controls sounds like a bad idea, but everything about this game feels misguided, unambitious and low budget.

You just seems to confirm my impression. People already decided the game sucks

Reviewing the game will be a mess XD

 

[LordRaptor]

Given that Starfoxes high level design was explicitly about making a game that 'sold' the gamepad and couldn't be done with any control setup other than the gamepad, I don't know why anyone who hates the gamepad and everything it stands for is even following this game to be honest.

It was never going to be Space Harrier: Definitive Edition

 

[GhostTrick]

Not as unambitious as people that want it to be prettier with standard controls.

Because standard controls and good graphics prevents ambitions, amirite ?
It's not even a problem of bad graphics, it's just that they have no vision behind the game. From what we seen, it looks like a slow paced and boring mess.

You just seems to confirm my impression. People already decided the game sucks

Reviewing the game will be a mess XD

I declined to review the game for this reason. I have a strong apprehension it's true. But let's be honest, it's not shaping up to be a good game. People didn't decided the game sucks. People saw the game is shaping up to be bad. Let's be honest, it's unexciting and it even seems to have developpement troubles.

 

[Vlaphor]

So...Bayonetta amiibo when?

 

[Ridley327]

So...Bayonetta amiibo when?

Based on their wave patterns, I imagine they'll drop the remaining three characters in May, along with whatever is still forthcoming for Animal Crossing.

 

[LegendofLex]

You played a demo. We don't know how much in the later levels are you forced to look at the gamepad. I would be very surprised if that's not the case, because it beats the whole purpose of the game's existence then. If the rumour is to be believed, we're talking about more than a boss battle.

I'm sure there are lots of places in the game where the GamePad is required.

But I can't imagine the on-rails sections will ever require it, unless there's some kind of enemy that can only be seen with the cockpit view or something, simply because the way the on-rails camera is structured doesn't really lend itself to situations like the boss battle from the demo where you would otherwise need the camera to do something that it isn't doing.

And if it is the case that you can play 90% of the game just on the main screen, did the trade-off for bad graphics worth it in the end?

I seriously doubt the GamePad has anything to do with the graphics. That'll be a result of this game being a resurrection of a back-burner-ed Wii game.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I don't think any further delays are going to fix a game that seems to be flawed at its most basic level. Just release the game. I've already accepted that Star Fox is probably a dead IP after this game launches.

Yep, I am not completely aware of what is going but the foundation is already in place. There is only so much that can be done across a few month delays. Just release it and be done with it. I do not think this game is a broken as some are saying anyway.

 

[Mugiwara]

This happens very often with nintendo, especially if they have other games coming, aka Zelda tp

Isnt it more telling that they're promoting Twilight Princess HD way more than Star Fox even though they're only a few months apart?

Maybe once TP HD is out they'll start releasing more media. I don't know, just seems weird they've been in complete media silence about the game.

 

[Diffense]

The bolded is incorrect; the aiming reticle you see on the TV is the same one you see in the cockpit view. The main differences between this and Star Fox 64, from a controls perspective, are that:

1) the cockpit view that you can use in Star Fox 64 is always present on the GamePad, even when you haven't toggled the perspective

2) with the gyro input, the aiming reticle can move independently of the control stick you use to fly

You can combine 1 + 2 to get some really precise hits on objects that are difficult to target with the standard Star Fox movement+aiming scheme and field of view. Most people seem to be under the impression that the game requires this of you, but it doesn't; the only time the demo ever forced you to use the cockpit view was during the boss battle on Corneria, since the TV camera was locked on the boss at all times. At all other times, you can just keep your eyes on the TV and use the gyro to point your aiming reticle anywhere on screen regardless of which direction you're flying.

Source: I played this game like a pro at E3, after seeing where lots of people were struggling and adapting

Thanks. I'd noticed that the reticle appears in 3rd person view too so that was the wrong way of putting it. Basicaly then, it's Star Fox where you can aim somewhat more independently and the cockpit view is always available for more accuracy. I always thought it sounded like a natural extension of previous mechanics.

You just seems to confirm my impression. People already decided the game sucks

Reviewing the game will be a mess XD

Reviews are going to be all over the place based on who can play the game and who sucks.

 

[LegendofLex]

Thanks. I'd noticed that the reticle appears in 3rd person view too so that was the wrong way of putting it. Basicaly then, it's Star Fox where you can aim somewhat more independently and the cockpit view is always available for more accuracy. I always thought it sounded like a natural extension of previous mechanics.

This is accurate for at least the "normal" type scenarios, so the on-rails sections and all-range mode battles.

They do end up pulling some stupid locked camera bullshit (your view is no longer centered behind your ship, just on the boss) to shoehorn the cockpit view into the boss fight, though. And I fully expect to see that carried through beyond just that one boss.

(The enemy lock being a feature in general - you can also do it manually - is actually quite nice for tracking enemies, just not when it's forced.)

 

[PSqueak]

What QA? The one that allowed Smash Tennis and Amibo Festival Party be released?

I don't think QA tests for "fun factor", but rather that the game is completely functional, smash tennis and amiibo festival are glitchy unplayable messes? do their controls not work as expected? of course not, they're just boring, but if all the shit with gyro control is going as rumors say, that is a QA issue that might not pass.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

It's incredible how Nintendo has managed to throw two of their most beloved franchises, Star Fox and Metroid, straight into the trash in 2016. Between the mess that is Star Fox Wii U and the universally panned (by fans) Federation Force, does anyone even care about either one at this point? Both games will flop critically and sales wise, and both games will be used as an excuse by Nintendo to put both series to bed.

I guess we've got Splatoon now which is legit fantastic, but I don't think trading two quality franchises for one quality franchise is a fair trade at all.

Nintendo used to be one of my faves (possibly #1 or 2), but with all of their actions in the past year and amiibos (basically plastic toys) being their main focus, I can't even say they are even in my top 5 anymore smh.

 

[GhostTrick]

Reviews are going to be all over the place based on who can play the game and who sucks.

That is, if the game is good but controls are a bit hard to master. From what we seen, controls isn't the only problem with the game though.

 

[maxcriden]

It's incredible how Nintendo has managed to throw two of their most beloved franchises, Star Fox and Metroid, straight into the trash in 2016. Between the mess that is Star Fox Wii U and the universally panned (by fans) Federation Force, does anyone even care about either one at this point? Both games will flop critically and sales wise, and both games will be used as an excuse by Nintendo to put both series to bed.

I guess we've got Splatoon now which is legit fantastic, but I don't think trading two quality franchises for one quality franchise is a fair trade at all.

Nintendo used to be one of my faves (possibly #1 or 2), but with all of their actions in the past year and amiibos (basically plastic toys) being their main focus, I can't even say they are even in my top 5 anymore smh.

1) amiibo are far from their main focus. There is no cogent argument that supports this.

2) there is no indication that Federation Force is of any low quality, whatever you think of the (spinoff's) art and gameplay direction.