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[Mael]

The tadtones just weren't an example of what we were talking about. The discussion was about how the world was structured and I was saying that Hyrule Field = The Sky and Kakariko/Death Mountain = Eldin Volcano. You cross Hyrule Field to get between areas like Death Mountain and Faron Woods and you cross The Sky to get between areas like Eldin Volcano and Faron Woods. In TP's Eldin sequence you are asked to travel between 2 areas across Hyrule Field multiple times, but the tadtones sequence is contained entirely in one area, so it's not an example.

The problem of the Eldin sequence isn't that you have to traverse Hyrule field twice, it's that it's killing the pacing of the game.
The tadtone is exactly that.
As Metroid Prime games showed backtracking doesn't always mean it's bad.

Also, I highly disagree with this statement. The swimming controls were fine and the sequence only took like 20 minutes. The Triforce quest in WW takes way longer and requires less skill (it's basically just a bunch of sailing between points and requires stuff like collecting joy pendants if you hadn't. The tadtones are easily the weakest segment in SS but it's not nearly deserving of the ire it gets. It is better than stuff like the owl statues in TP.

Let's agree to disagree here, I'd say it's the culmination of every single BS SS throws at you.

Wolf Link isn't bad. The Twilight segments in TP are just a complete waste of time. And after finishing them you still have to do a ton of menial crap before you can go to the dungeon. The between dungeon segments are bloated with required side missions that would be fine if they were at least somewhat of a challenge. They're the same kind of stuff that SS makes you do in that last segment, but more of it and less challenging.

SS has even more between dungeon to do than any Zelda before it so I don't get why you have so much problem with the wolf link segments that are basically a tour of the area before anything at all can be done.
It's a bit of padding but the last one is really good.
I can't say I ever cared about what happens outside of dungeons in SS to be honest.

Nah, the Silent Realms were great. You had to grab the tears smartly because you could strand yourself too far from a safe zone and have the game suddenly turn into Silent Hill. Makes good use of your ability to read the map, plan routes, and use Link's more athletic abilities. It's a fun stealth segment, a rarity in Zelda.

That's something that Nintendo need to learn, stealth segments are not their forte and they should stop trying.
It was shite in OoT, bad in MM, horrendous in WW, pointless in TP and a colossal waste of time in SS.
They're bad, it's Legend of Zelda not Metal Gear Solid.
Thank god they didn't put a reward for redoing them on a timer or something.

Huh? They show how you get back to your bird. Link rides a gust of wind with the sail cloth all the way back up to the sky. https://youtu.be/GF5JRRI36Ss?t=15m9s

That's on the level "breath through their skin" as far as explanation goes.
It's a solution in need of a problem. A pointless contrivance.
And it goes against expectations to boot.
I'm pretty sure no one expected the Loftwing to never see the land behind the clouds only in the ending sequence.

There technically is no teleportation system in SS. Link is skydiving to each drop zone and thus he needs to be above them to do so. It may be inconvenient but it does help build the world. It's more grounded for better or worse. The Sky doesn't take that long to cross compared to hubs in other games.

There's a fast traveling section tied to a minigame when a menu would have done just as well.
You

Wind Waker and Spirit Tracks have the worst teleportation systems. I dunno what the hell they were thinking with Wind Waker's. There are so few warp spots and few of them are in good locations.

ST for all its faults actually put warp points everywhere, I'd argue that it's actually quicker to get from any point to any other point in ST than in SS.
Heck at least the minigame overworld was a fun ride in ST.

Skyloft is worth going to. It has quite a few sidequests and upgrading your gear at the bazaar is good. The NPCs there are well-done and fun to get to know. Heh, the side quest with the missing girl, that one guy's mom paying Link to do late night maid service, romancing the Item Check girl, the toilet ghost; good stuff. Each area usually requires a different shield type and you can only hold so much stuff in your adventure pouch. It's worthwhile to upgrade it and use the item check.

Skyloft is wroth going to, I'd hope so it's the only village to speak of!
The issue is that it takes forever to get from any point TO skyloft.
The sky is in the way.
And for some stupid reason you only get to see the any other place than skyloft during the day because fuck sunsets and sunrises.

The Triforce hunt in WW is very different. You have to find 8 charts, pay Tingle a fortune to decipher them, then sail to the locations marked on the charts and pull up the treasures. Most of the time spent on it is just sailing between points and most of the tasks to get the charts are super basic. It's all extremely time consuming. Conversely, most of your time during the 3 dragons segment is spent completing 3 tasks and overall it takes like, what, an hour? I agree that it's the most disappointing segment of the game, but it's more due to how great the rest of the game is. I'd have more of a problem with them if they were as tedious and full of doing nothing as the Triforce search or the owl statue search.

Once you're done with the 3 first dungeons the game throw the imprisoned at you and grind to a halt with menial tasks to do for what certainly seemed more than 1 hour.
And all this in the end to get to the triforce dungeon that is probably the worst dungeon this side of ST's minimalist dungeons.
Heck the Triforce hunt and the owl statue search weren't great but at least it gave an excuse to find any nook and crannies for the hidden poes or whatever WW had.
SS had the skystones or whatever but the rewards were rather pointless.
If the monsters were forcing you to use your shield and could actually break it, there would be a point to get it repaired (through a sidequest like sequence) or get the hylian shield.
No game is perfect I guess.

 

[JumpCancel]

There technically is no teleportation system in SS. Link is skydiving to each drop zone and thus he needs to be above them to do so. It may be inconvenient but it does help build the world. It's more grounded for better or worse. The Sky doesn't take that long to cross compared to hubs in other games.

It's world building that wastes the players time. They could have easily altered it to be the gust of wind carries Link to where ever he wants, or that the loftwing can come pick you up and carry you. Its Zelda, Nintendo could explain anything away if they wanted to. What they have in place instead is tedious and aggravating, so you can't justify poor design because its "world building". It's a fantasy game. I wouldn't have sat there saying

"There is no way he could get from that Zone to that Zone. It's implausible, even though Link has a talking sword and a giant bird that he rides."

Come on man.

 

[also]

Welcome to the tsundere archetype!

Google tells me that Kurisu Makise from Steins;Gate is considered a tsundere and I don't recall having a problem with her when I watched the anime so I don't think it's that.

Midna was just so confident and full of spirit and then it all vanishes until the very end. Why?

If you read my post he was replying to I said this exactly and linked the tsundere wiki article! 😂 (I respect your opinion, Atmej, and I'm glad you get the enjoyment out of Midba as a character that you do.)

I did, but then she started creepily stroking Link's face :/

 

[brainchild]

So we agree that the "overworld" is two separate entities entirely? Right then. An overworld, regardless of the Zelda series is typically classed as an area that interconnects all its levels or locations. Thats what the Skyworld does. The areas beneath the sky share an overall map, but are not connected for traversal. I cannot get from one zone to the other, unless I travel via the sky i.e the over world. Now I don't want to argue semantics all night but I'm not wrong in this line of thinking. You can't re purpose the meaning of what an overworld is for a particular game series for the sake of an argument. By definition the land below the sky is not interconnected. It's 3 separate zones that are only accessible independently of one another. If you want to go to an extreme, the game has 4 overworlds:

The Sky
Faron Woods Area
Eldin Volcano Area
Lanayru Desert Area



If you want to compare every area in TP and SS in terms of the amount neither is empty. The Sky is empty in comparison to the underworld within SS, and the equivalent in TP. That was my point and unless you share the understanding of what an over world is, we wont agree.

You couldn't be any more wrong.

That's like saying that a game that allows for interplanetary travel has only its galaxy for an overworld, and that the planets within the galaxy don't count as part of the overworld since they're not connected, which would be ridiculous.

In a broader sense of video game worlds, the overworld is the 'universe' of the world. Depending on the scale, you may need to traverse galaxies to planets to the atmosphere of the planet to the surface of the planet, and finally to a specific region of a planet before you finally arrive at an actual 'level' within the game world.

In essence, the interconnectedness of the regions has no bearing on the distinction of an overworld, and what really matters is whether an area is a 'level' (or in Zelda's case, a dungeon/temple type area) or a place that encompasses said level.

And if you really wanna get technical, TP's regions in its overworld aren't actually connected; they just appear to be. All the areas connected to Hyrule Field are separated by loading screens. The same can be said for the regions in SS' overworld.

 

[JumpCancel]

You couldn't be any more wrong.

That's like saying that a game that allows for interplanetary travel has only its galaxy for an overworld, and that the planets within the galaxy don't count as part of the overworld since they're not connected, which would be ridiculous.

That example depends on whether or not the space in between worlds is a menu, or actual space you need to travel through. If it's a menu, it's not an over world.

In a broader sense of video game worlds, the overworld is the 'universe' of the world.

In essence, the interconnectedness of the regions has no bearing on the distinction of an overworld, and what really matters is whether an area is a 'level' (or in Zelda's case, a dungeon/temple type area) or a place that encompasses said level.

Wrong.

"An overworld is an area within a video game that interconnects all its levels or locations"

The zones beneath the sky are not connected to one another. You have to go through the sky, which by definition makes the sky the overworld.

And if you really wanna get technical, TP's regions in its overworld aren't actually connected; they just appear to be. All the areas connected to Hyrule Field are separated by loading screens. The same can be said for the regions in SS' overworld.

Regardless of loading screens, the loading zones are next to one another. They are connected. SS loading zones for Faron Woods, Eldin Volcano and Lanayru are only acessable from the sky world. I cannot load into Faron Woods from Eldin Volcano, Eldin Volcano to Lanauryy and so on.

Those 3 zones are part of the game, but they do not act as the over world. They are areas accessible via the over world. I'm not talking nonsense. It's correct.

 

[brainchild]

That example depends on whether or not the space in between worlds is a menu, or actual space you need to travel through. If it's a menu, it's not an over world.



Wrong.

"An overworld is an area within a video game that interconnects all its levels or locations"

The zones beneath the sky are not connected to one another. You have to go through the sky, which by definition makes the sky the overworld.




Regardless of loading screens, the loading zones are next to one another. They are connected. SS loading zones for Faron Woods, Eldin Volcano and Lanayru are only acessable from the sky world. I cannot load into Faron Woods from Eldin Volcano, Eldin Volcano to Lanauryy and so on.

Those 3 zones are part of the game, but they do not act as the over world. They are areas accessible via the over world. I'm not talking nonsense. It's correct.

We're talking in circles at this point (all of the areas are various parts of the overworld), but let me clarify something...

Just because the zones are not contiguous, it does not mean that they aren't part of the overworld. Based on the definition that you used (sourced by wikipedia, I presume), the overworld is simply the area of which all of the levels or locations are part of one cohesive whole, not necessarily that the all aspects of an overworld must be touching each other.

As a real life example, Alaska and Hawaii are not part of the contiguous states. Nevertheless, they are still considered to be part of the same country as the contiguous states. If a video game had the entire United States as its game world, Alaska and Hawaii wouldn't be any less a part of the 'overworld' just because you would only be able to access them via a plane trip.

To me, you seem to be confusing 'open world' with 'overworld', but they're definitely not interchangeable terms. SMB3 had an overworld just as much as SMW had an overworld, despite the former's worlds not being connected like the latter's.

At any rate, this is a pointless argument. Regardless of how you look at it, it does not change the overall experience of either game in terms of what the player is able to do outside of dungeons, and in SS' case, its content outside of dungeons was simply more dense than TP's content outside of dungeons, whether that be in an overworld or an area.

 

[JumpCancel]

We're talking in circles at this point (all of the areas are various parts of the overworld), but let me clarify something...

Just because the zones are not contiguous, it does not mean that they aren't part of the overworld. Based on the definition that you used (sourced by wikipedia, I presume), the overworld is simply the area of which all of the levels or locations are part of one cohesive whole, not necessarily that the all aspects of an overworld must be touching each other.

You're right. We are arguing semantics at this point with the outcome a fruitless one. However it is not about every area "touching each other" it's about accessibility. With the definition of an over world (oddly enough my understanding of the term "over world" is also the most frequent one used) The areas must me linked to an area that allows traversal to one another.

As a real life example...

Let me stop you there. While you're example is a good one, you're applying real world geographical mapping of the United States to justify your interpretation of Video Game terminology. Bear in mind the game in questions two planes of land are on different spheres entirely.

With your example I can traverse through all the states in any direction if we use just it's landmass (disregarding borders, roads etc.) I need not go into the sky, fly over my desired state in order to go to it. The land masses are all connected, so in relative video game terms it would be an overworld.

To me, you seem to be confusing 'open world' with 'overworld', but they're definitely not interchangeable terms. SMB3 had an overworld just as much as SMW had an overworld, despite the former's worlds not being connected like the latter's.

Nope. I have full comprehension of the terms "open" and "over" world, as they are independent of one another. Thanks for checking. Regarding this point, those where 2-D platformers where you move from left to right, with right typically being the direction of progression. An over world for a 2-D platformer will be greatly different from a 3-D action RPG. Just as "open" and "over" world are not interchangeable the rules of 2-D and 3-D space are not so easy to do either.

At any rate, this is a pointless argument. Regardless of how you look at it, it does not change the overall experience of either game in terms of what the player is able to do outside of dungeons, and in SS' case, its content outside of dungeons was simply more dense than TP's content outside of dungeons, whether that be in an overworld or an area.

I completely agree. Well said.

 

[PtM]

Amazon.de has some Amiibos on sale for €9.

https://www.amazon.de/b/ref=lp_8453...1&ie=UTF8&smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&node=8453361031

Ganon is among those, if someone wants that extra damage. He also has a sweet cape.

 

[oatmeal]

So no new news then...