I just went into a single event myself with 11 opponents. It definitely swaps car models (I used the Audi R8) in photo mode with 11 opponents.
I'll upload a video soon. My ps4 just crashed and booted into safe mode -_-
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
I'll upload a video soon. My ps4 just crashed and booted into safe mode -_-
Yea anyone doubting this can just check it out for themselves by stopping the car so that they can see the cockpit or the engine bay and press photomode. It will swap in normal races but won't in time trial as it's already high LOD.
I hope we can put an end to this discussion now. But I do wonder why the game director would call it "Entirely False".
I hope we can put an end to this discussion now. But I do wonder why the game director would call it "Entirely False".
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
You'll have to prove he's lying before you call him out.
Time trial?
No. Single event race. I'll check time trials to confirm that they do use the same model though. And they do. No difference in models for time trials.
motorised mallard
Member
It's definetly there but not as clear as with the Ferrari.
It looks like as if the lightning and "draw distance" changes around the engine. If that makes any sense.
I'm no expert but something along those lines comes to my mind.
On the other hand in the Ferrari the wipers seem clearly seem to be lower quality models along with the cap/round thingy isn't the same in the "low quality" version behind the engine block.
- edit -
With the wipers and most of the engine in the Ferrari it might be just lightning + aliasing that messes it up but that cap/or what ever it is between the pipes looks like a different model instead of just flat lightning.
It looks like as if the lightning and "draw distance" changes around the engine. If that makes any sense.
I'm no expert but something along those lines comes to my mind.
On the other hand in the Ferrari the wipers seem clearly seem to be lower quality models along with the cap/round thingy isn't the same in the "low quality" version behind the engine block.
- edit -
With the wipers and most of the engine in the Ferrari it might be just lightning + aliasing that messes it up but that cap/or what ever it is between the pipes looks like a different model instead of just flat lightning.
TheAdmiester
Member
Someone should probably tell nib95 in the comments that the exterior model does actually change.
Nicktendo86
Member
Also confirmed here.
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
Gameplay - noon - Chile
photomode
photomode
Man I have already posted the pictures, and said how you can check it out yourself.
What else do you want for proof?
EDIT: You can see it in the video that Noobcraft posted....and your own screenshots
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
Objectively I see no difference *for the interior* and I can't really compare it since photomode moves the camera.
Edit: *
What? You can't be serious.
Look at the tail lights, look at the cockpit which is missing in the gameplay shot.
Man just open the images in two tabs and flip between the two you will see lots of differences.
And there is zero difference in camera between your gameplay and photomode shot.
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
Is it a stretch to say that it's not a model change, but more actually lighting? I don't see any real changes to the geometry.
I meant I see see no change in the interior, there's definitely something funky going on on the exterior.
I meant I see see no change in the interior, there's definitely something funky going on on the exterior.
SigSwat551
Member
Just put the car against the side of the road and move the camara around. You will get a nice view of the engine bay or interior. Then press photo mode. And yes, there is a difference. I just checked it myself.
Yes it is because its not a lighting change, do you see any changes in lighting in any other area of the environment or even on the other areas of the car itself? No
And the funky thing on the exterior is how model swap looks.
Here I made a make shift comparison for you
Just park the car at the side of the road and bring the camera over the engine bay.
It is super easy to see, the car model goes super detailed.
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
I'm not dumb. That's the first thing I did and while there's a stark difference I do not believe it 's a change in the car model, rather a better lighting approximation.
Are you looking at this on a phone or a full size screen?
I'm on my phone and I can tell the difference easily. It clearly swaps car models and in the video I posted you can watch the lighting change up a bit too.
I didn't say you were.
But this is exactly why I did that. Because you are bringing out a completely new reasoning without any base or proof and dismissing the current claims that has plenty of proof.
Where is this lighting change you speak of?
If there was a lighting change it would affect the entire scene or atleast the entire car uniformly, yet the locations on those images that are outside of this debate remain lit exactly the same way but the places where I am pointing out towards that have LOD changes somehow have lighting changes now. All the evidence point out towards it a model swap, including the "funky" outside you mentioned before. While there is no evidence that points out towards improved lighting.
Even more proof is the video that's posted on this very page.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOG1lzbzjCg&feature=youtu.be
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
I stand by what I said. I created those images and I have more. I'm staring at this for the past 5 minutes on my 27'' 1080p monitor. Yes, there's a difference. What I'm saying is that it is a more accurate representation of how light hits the car model, not an actual change in the model itself.
haha the gif you made insinuated something.
chromatic9
Member
There's a large difference actually. Rear lights, carbon fiber detail and model, engine is added, interior is added etc.
Shame how crappy the pics are but these changes will make much difference, also shadows and AA on top adds even more to the impression. In the AUDI top down there looks to be more changes in the poly count on the tailgate but its just a crappy blurry video so not going to say for sure.
Nothing wrong with it though, Forza does this.
When I want to photograph a car I want the best model possible, fully tessellated as well. I'm glad that Forza swaps in the models.
Yea, I would think you should be able to. It just cracks me up when people are having a graphics discussion, and the outlier ends up being on a 4 inch screen.
boredandlazy
Member
Like StevieP...
No, we're simply using different notation. Sometimes it's notated where 0 is the high-quality model, and you get lower quality as you increase the number, i.e. LOD0 would be the ultra high-quality model and LOD7 would be some 20-polygon joke used when the model is 2 miles away.
This is consistent with what's historically been used by GPUs for texture filtering, for instance. If you want to make it so that the GPU samples from a larger version of a texture than usual, you apply a "negative LOD bias", i.e. -1 would make the GPU sample 1 MIP level bigger than it otherwise would (which can make things look sharper but cause texture aliasing).
jellies_two
Member
The interior is not added, you can just it more clearly through the rear window. Rear lights are the same, engine is not added.
A lot of those particular flip differences is because of post-processing those edges and blurring the shadowing, and this particular car brings that out.
The model is pretty much the same, if not exactly the same. I never see a higher LOD model swapped in when touching photo mode button.
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
Poor Rushy lol...
Ah I see, yea I know about that. Just didn't think you were talking about it in that context.
It might be worth reading my post again (the one you quoted) to see what I said and what I am arguing about here in this thread. I am the guy who first mentioned the model differences here in the thread and posted pictures showing itThere's a large difference actually. Rear lights, carbon fiber detail and model, engine is added, interior is added etc.
Shame how crappy the pics are but these changes will make much difference, also shadows and AA on top adds even more to the impression. In the AUDI top down there looks to be more changes in the poly count on the tailgate but its just a crappy blurry video so not going to say for sure.
Nothing wrong with it though, Forza does this.
When I want to photograph a car I want the best model possible, fully tessellated as well. I'm glad that Forza swaps in the models.
chromatic9
Member
Ah I see, yea I know about that. Just didn't think you were talking about it in that context.
It might be worth reading my post again (the one you quoted) to see what I said and what I am arguing about here in this thread. I am the guy who first mentioned the model differences here in the thread and posted pictures showing it.
Yes I glanced over your post, sorry about that.
It only happens in multi car races. The same model is used in time trials as in photo mode. If you go into photo mode during a race like in the video above, it will visibly swap out the car model for another one.
jellies_two
Member
I am the guy who first mentioned the model differences here in the thread and posted pictures showing it
Just to be clear, again, I don't see any model differences all I see is anti-aliased edge processing and reflections on the back window making it appear like the interior has changed.
You're going to have to find an example of increased *geometry* in photo-mode car vs racing mode, not images showing that in photo mode after post-processing, anti-aliasing has been run that pick out edges and soften shadows..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOG1lzbzjCg&feature=youtu.be
This was posted just now. Clear as day. It's swapping it for the highest possible LOD, which apparently isn't available for the third-person camera during non-time-trial races.
jellies_two
Member
But - I don't see that flip example as a different model.
It is the same model with better anti-aliasing. Where is the geometry difference? don't say interior - the visible interior difference is hidden by the reflection on the back window. Don't say lights, those look different because of post-processing on the edges and shadowing.
chromatic9
Member
Watch the AUDI top down video, the interior changes.
jellies_two
Member
yes it is clear in the video.
The original quote was " engine is added, interior is added etc.." which is what got me going.
I guess he meant engine additional, interior additional.
to me, the pictures above and the youtube video show a difference in lighting. the pop seen on the engine looks to be a result of the lighting change..
It's a pretty crappy capture (share button video posted to YouTube) but it's much more noticeable on my TV. Anyone with the game can do it, just pop into a single event race and alternate between photo mode and gameplay. The geometries do change, as do the lighting, but it's not a huge difference. The LOD models used are still very good.
I find it amazing that people would accept that photomode changes everything including the lighting so as to believe that it retains the same model ingame and in photomode...but won't accept the more logical conclusion that it's the model that changes while everything else remains the same. It's the same kind of argument where people believed Earth was the center of the universe and came up with reasons to support it that defied every law known because it was what was convenient for them despite evidence pointing elsewhere.
Now you are just talking nonsense.
You just shunned such clear differences by attribute them to post processing and anti aliasing. Post processing won't make an edge rounder or fuller, post processing won't add an extra layer of dept the the outline. You say reflection hides the interior? So how is it visible in photomode? Does it means the reflection disappears in photomode? Because that just doesn't make sense.
EDIT: So you see the picture below, stuff like that including that same picture has been posted along with other pictures and video for about the past 3-4 pages now.
Now you are just talking nonsense.
You just shunned such clear differences by attribute them to post processing and anti aliasing. Post processing won't make an edge rounder or fuller, post processing won't add an extra layer of dept the the outline. You say reflection hides the interior? So how is it visible in photomode? Does it means the reflection disappears in photomode? Because that just doesn't make sense.
EDIT: So you see the picture below, stuff like that including that same picture has been posted along with other pictures and video for about the past 3-4 pages now.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Wow l had not noticed the model swap until now, maybe it's something done as part of the weather patch?
The visuals still run smooth even with the model swap so why not use that higher detail model anyway?
The visuals still run smooth even with the model swap so why not use that higher detail model anyway?
that helps a lot, thanks. regardless of lighting changes, you can def see the change around the edges on the circular objects.
/back to Marussia Drift
Maybe it doesn't run so well with several cars on screen, or they don't keep the LOD at maximum "just in case" to ensure a locked 30fps.
Eh, we were all both wrong and right.
photomode models are still used in real-time in time trials, in which case they are still valid for comparison purposes.
chromatic9
Member
It's not down to AA, they swap a model. Please take a look at the gif benzy posted, that's the same. You posted saying the red pagani is the same model, it clearly isn't. Can you see now?
Do you see the engine detail through the rear vents, that's what I mean by engine added. Look at the oval badge, look at the rear carbon fiber, its changes, that's not AA.
At least the thread is graphics related nowEh, we were all both wrong and right.
this whole page is what I feel like the thread should be, just with more games. I'd like to see model swaps in Forza Horizon 2 as well as breakdowns of what photo mode adds there.
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
Is that Time Trial or Race?