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N'Gai Croal - RE5 Trailer Imagery is Racist
- Thread starter Zzoram
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Deadly Monk
Banned
I still don't see the racism remarks as being valid. I think N'Gai needs to learn about cinematography too. There's a reason why they look darker and more evil in some shots, it's called "mood". The reason they're attacking the white guy? He's holding a gun and trying to kill them because maybe they've been infected? Who knows.
They should have set this in South Carolina or the Middle East. Then we'd see how much he would've cared that your shooting BAD people.
They should have set this in South Carolina or the Middle East. Then we'd see how much he would've cared that your shooting BAD people.
Kestastrophe
Member
onemic said:
It was the same in RE4 too. None of the villagers were given sympathy as they were all afflicted. Stephen Totilo explains it best when he perceives the trailer as "staring at black people down the barrel of a gun" instead of going in there to help them, but that is not the point of the game. The point is to scare the bejesus out of you with creepy settings and zombies. I think that I could see where their point if this wasn't the objective of the game.
A lot of you guys are replying like N'Gai's reacting at the fact that it's black people being killed in this game, when he's really talking about the portrayal of them - you know, as monstrous, shadowy, creepy things - others to Chris Redfield's buff white American self.
Capcom's playing with imagery of monsters/others and heroes/non-others in a cultural language that they've inherited and created out of their own cultural history. They don't have a racial legacy like ours - they only legacy of Black/White race relations is what they've imported from Western media as pop culture archetype. Buff white dudes are bad as hell - hmm wonder where they got that idea? - and black people are evil. It's a cultural shorthand they've been passed on that's not very much different from our "all Asian people are mystical kung fu warriors" - a profile of race that isn't correct and is offensive to a lot of people, that is all over videogames and that nobody makes a hoot about.
Anyway, I'm just saying that Croal's right for taking offense to the portrayal of black people as opposed to just the fact that you're mowing them down. Like I said in my last post, I just think it's the wrong place, the wrong game.
Capcom's playing with imagery of monsters/others and heroes/non-others in a cultural language that they've inherited and created out of their own cultural history. They don't have a racial legacy like ours - they only legacy of Black/White race relations is what they've imported from Western media as pop culture archetype. Buff white dudes are bad as hell - hmm wonder where they got that idea? - and black people are evil. It's a cultural shorthand they've been passed on that's not very much different from our "all Asian people are mystical kung fu warriors" - a profile of race that isn't correct and is offensive to a lot of people, that is all over videogames and that nobody makes a hoot about.
Anyway, I'm just saying that Croal's right for taking offense to the portrayal of black people as opposed to just the fact that you're mowing them down. Like I said in my last post, I just think it's the wrong place, the wrong game.
gofreak said:
They're not really zombies, and neither were the Spaniards in RE4. They don't look or act any differently than regular people except for their inexplainable desire to kill outsiders-- in this case, it happens to be the ONLY WHITE GUY within 500 miles.
The ganados in RE4 function perfectly normally (you can even see them going about their daily lives in the beginning of RE4) until Leon shows up. From what we've seen of the latest RE5 footage from the Famitsu DVD, the same is true of this village. Chris just walks around fine bumping into things uncontested.
Did you see 28 Days Later? What did you think of the black zombie (mind you, that WAS a textbook zombie) chained and collared to a pole?
I don't thin RE5 is racist, but I can definitely see how some people would.
Deadly Monk said:I still don't see the racism remarks as being valid. I think N'Gai needs to learn about cinematography too. There's a reason why they look darker and more evil in some shots, it's called "mood". The reason they're attacking the white guy? He's holding a gun and trying to kill them because maybe they've been infected? Who knows.
They should have set this in South Carolina or the Middle East. Then we'd see how much he would've cared that your shooting BAD people.
Bravo.
I'm happy you can say what I'm thinking.
LCGeek said:
Sure, it comes down to intention. But I don't think we should assume racism, quite the opposite.
I can see a point about racial sensitivity. But like I say, that doesn't mean people aren't misconstruing the intention of the author. If they accept that the author isn't being racist, then I don't see why they should personally care.
Why are we only allowed to shoot white (ok maybe also yellow) people? I mean really, I hope Capcom releases the game and the whole gaming media will be brought a step further. His retarted elaborations about how the zombies are positioned are stupid. It's a horror game, what the hell does he expectkeanerie said:
keanerie said:
I used to work at Home Depot. In the training video, when they got to the "we're an equal opportunity employer" bit where they showed people of all races, they had the Asian guy doing kicks into the air. It wasn't until that moment that I realized how stereotypes can be totally missed by a room full of attentive viewers.
Night_Trekker
Member
This thread is pretty funny. I'm especially disgusted with the finger-wagging at people who never saw this as a racial issue, who ask "why is there no uproar over depictions of [other ethnicity] in games?" and who are then put into their place for... I dunno, I guess assuming all races are equal and deserving of the same basic treatment? What a horrid mindset. We must correct them!
So, remember how creepy it was when the Ganados would scream things at you in Spanish? It was creepy not just cause it sounded horrifying, but because it was in a language you didn't understand - there's something unsettling about that, something other to use the word N'Gai picked on.
You know, foreign = scary. What's unknown is unsettling. That's what Capcom's trying to play at, they're just using the strange as the scary - no agenda here, only accidental racist overtones that our American ears are sensitive too.
You know, foreign = scary. What's unknown is unsettling. That's what Capcom's trying to play at, they're just using the strange as the scary - no agenda here, only accidental racist overtones that our American ears are sensitive too.
GenericPseudonym
Banned
keanerie said:
You seem to forget that the black people are zombies. Secondly, there will in all probability be a few black chracters who aren't infected, and the main villain will probably be the pale-white Wesker or Spencer, so I don't get why everyone's complaining.
keanerie said:
They're portrayed as creepy and mood is being set as dark because they are zombies. Watch the trailer in the op, the mood doesn't begin to get dark or scary up until the virus starts to kick in (and eyes turn red). At that point, they're zombies. Black zombies, since 99% of the Haitian population is black, but zombies anyhow. Or would you prefer that capcom set the mood as light during the game, just because you shoot black skinned people/zombies.
This is seriously a non-issue. Or are you implying that Chris Redfield being white against an army of blakc zombies is a secret white supremacy message?
Hwang Seong-Gyeong
Banned
They really need to stop this crap, what about all those games where you kill russians, vietnam people, arabs?
Ninja Scooter
Member
harSon said:
in a sense. Why can't people understand that Ngai isn't talking about the idea of a game where you kill black people. He's speaking to the imagery. And i totally think its 100% no intentional by the developers, its just an interesting example of the perspective of different people and how they view things differently based on their own personal history. To the japanese developers at Capcom, as Croal said, they probably just saw Black Hawk Down and thought it'd be cool to set a game in that kind of a setting. Someone else might read something deeper into it though that the devs never even thought of.
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Y2Kev said:
I'd say N'Gai might have a point here about some of the imagery, but I didn't react at all to that 28 Days Later thing, honestly.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
What do the "RE5 has racist imagery" proponents suggest as a solution? I mean, I can understand why N'Gai and others would feel the way they do about the trailer imagery (even if I don't have those same feelings). But what, specifically, do they actually want to happen? N'Gai mentioned he wanted the trailer changed. How? He mentioned he didn't want censorship...but then what does he want? If it's just a discussion about the race issues that the game brings up, sure, that's cool. If it's a substantive change of the game's content, then that is basically censorship, isn't it?
MikeHaggar
Member
N'Gai Croal said:
the portrayal of the villagers during the trailer before they turn into zombies does not strike me as racist at all. in fact, i thought it was clear that the reason they are "othered" is because virtually anyone who is watching this trailer knows that at some point these villagers are going to go batshit insane and turn into fucking zombies! it's called creating suspense.
n'gai, would you have been happier if chris redfield was handing out puppy dogs and ice cream to the children before the villagers turn into zombies? maybe some imagery of him doing arts and crafts with kids too... how about him helping a group of adult villagers fix the roof to their shanty and them giving them a big smile and a double thumbs up before walking off? that would make for a great teaser of a SURVIVAL HORROR game, wouldn't it?
i think that some people are not taking into account the nature of this game when analyzing the trailer.
Death_Born
Banned
Hwang Seong-Gyeong said:
But they're e-vil! [/redneck]
Deadly Monk said:I still don't see the racism remarks as being valid. I think N'Gai needs to learn about cinematography too. There's a reason why they look darker and more evil in some shots, it's called "mood". The reason they're attacking the white guy? He's holding a gun and trying to kill them because maybe they've been infected? Who knows.
They should have set this in South Carolina or the Middle East. Then we'd see how much he would've cared that your shooting BAD people.
Exactly, it's Resident Evil for crying out loud, the game is supposed to be scary!
I don't see what they can do now though. They can't reskin the entire enemy cast, nor change the location at this late stage. But no doubt this will have Mass Effect style fallout when the game reaches the market, which is a shame.
The cool thing about N'Gai is, that he doesn't say the game is meant to be rasict. He just says that the team was ignorant of the prespecives and views that would result in them not knowing enough about the african ethnicity, Somalia was a good example, I myself am somali, and boy....
ItsInMyVeins said:
Neither did I, but I think that's kind of the point I was making-- the portrayal of that guy totally desensitized everyone to the potentially racial imagery whereas I think RE5 is not doing quite the same job.
But based on those earlier shots it looks like RE5 isn't just all black people anyway.
I hope capcom does NOT make them white, freedom of creativity etc, i want the original vision, WHO KNOWS IF ITS RACIST, YOU DONT EVEN KNOW THE FUCKING STORY OF THE GAME. Ever stopped and thinked that the people are in the shadows and quiet because they are afraid themselves too for example? No that cant be, it has to be racist!
and Ngai is a cool guy, i just dont agree with this one
and Ngai is a cool guy, i just dont agree with this one
Ninja Scooter
Member
This might just open an interesting dialogue, there is no right and wrong here. You aren't wrong if you don't see racism in the RE5 trailer, as i said i personally don't see it directly, but people might see it aren't stupid either and i don't understand why so many people are just dismissive of N'Gai's opinion.
Kestastrophe
Member
Jacobi said:
This is the part that he's not getting. He talks about how the trailer has connotations of Black Hawk Down and its perceived racism but then views the RE series as if its in a vacuum (i.e. doesn't consider how the previous games portrayed antagonists). Huge double standard in that regard.
monkspider
Member
MikeHaggar said:
Bingo. I think this is the big problem some people are having, N'gai included.
Dina said:
Please read through my post carefully or read my previous post, which I referenced in the final sentence of the post in question.
I was trying to say that N'Gai's right for taking offense to something in an intelligent way instead of just being like "black people die this is racist." But, I was also saying that the way Capcom's setting up the whole situation isn't rooted in our racial history and has more to do with standardized imagery, and that he's putting his criticisms in the wrong place - because Capcom's just trying to scare people.
VeritasVierge
Member
It's not set in Haiti and you didn't even read his point.diunxx said:
I can't wait to design a game where emaciated naked Jews are being shot down and killed by some white guy because they are "diseased" and now mad thanks to some evil Nazi experiment. Because that imagery could never be taken out of context for people who haven't yet played the game....
StreetDisciple
Member
I don't' think "I've been blowing up White/Spanish zombies in past games" is a good excuse. This Generations graphics show much more realism and detail than last. They looked more like zombies in past iterations than a specific group of people. It was very disturbing watching a white "cop" bust a cap in a black woman in that trailer who looks like the typical black mother wearing a scarf(at least it looked like what my mother wears around the house). White people, you will never understand black pain on these issues because contrary to your belief, racism is still VERY much alive. So instead of making up different reasons why it's not racist, understand that it is and maybe Capcom will do something about it. Whether or not Capcom knew what they where doing is not the point, it's there and it needs to change.
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