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Ninja Gaiden 2 vs Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2

jelly

Member
I think the hardest boss in the game is Dagra Dai (he's right before the final boss) but if you're playing on warrior he shouldn't be too hard. Also, another tip that I forgot: you can often backtrack to the last save statue to save again, enemies won't respawn so if you had trouble beating a certain section and you finally did it, backtrack and save, don't wait for the next statue.

I didn't find him too bad, his attacks go on for ever though. Nimpo sorted his minions out. If you dash round him on the ground you can really get some heavy hits in taking a good amount off.

That boss climbing out the pit is a pain in the arse. If you don't get arrows off quick enough he just spams those blue things, annoying as hell but I made it to his second incarnation, had him beat and the game glitched, health to nothing but he is just a static non interactive object. Have to do it all again from the Dai. Booo!
 

synce

Member
Black > Sigma, and 2 > Sigma 2, all day. Distinctly remember that the Sigma games were dumbed down and had less enemies among a bunch of pointless changes. The extra T&A was nice but it's evident Itagaki was the brains of that series.
 

Justinh

Member
Interesting. I tried getting into the modern Ninja Gaiden series a while ago and bought Ninja Gaiden Black on the Xbox Marketplace. I played Ninja Gaiden 2 way back when but never beat a later boss. I think it's that staircase part people are talking about? I'm not sure. fakedit: Nope! Youtube informs me it was the last boss.)
release this on XBONE BC Microsoft!
This would be nice, as would the ability to buy it digitally (again? not sure if it was ever available on the digital store...)
Razor's Edge is still really bad. All of the "improvements" were created by porting Ninja Gaiden 2 content 1:1 (enemies, weapons, ninpo, etc). Everything built for Ninja Gaiden 3 is bad, straight up. Every new enemy is bad, every level is as dull as possible, every new mechanic or idea is busted or uninteresting. I also feel like the first 2 chapters of NG2 have more assets than the entirety of NG3RE - it feels really budget.
Oh, I was about to quote and ask someone else before I noticed the post dates. So NG3 is bad in any version? That was the impression I got back in the day, just that the Razor's Edge version was "better."
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Razor is better. But still a shit game. The encounter design is terrible, the bosses are terrible and those fucking alchemists suck ass.

The bad thing about NG3 was that it was obviously made out of spite towards Itagaki. It went against everything Itagaki envisioned. The game punished you for killing, that was sort of the plot. That one scene, with the begging soldier, has to be the worst scene in any game ever. It murdered Ryu as a character. I felt uneasy playing this game, its like the game hated the franchise and wanted to destroy it. Which it did. There were fucking stealth sections also. Then the QTE's. God this game is ass.

The ridiculous thing about Hayashit is that he tried a 180 with NG3: RE. He tried to go back to NG2 to salvage it. The same went for DoA, the game was about 'i'm a fighter' and less about sexiness. But look at that 180. DoA5 today is more about sexiness than the franchise ever was. So yeah I sort of miss Itagaki.
 
Though 2 is amazing I would like to see a new Ninja Gaiden with the mechanics and gameplay of Black so it is partially open world and there is exploration elements.
 

jelly

Member
Woo, finally completed NG2.

Perhaps rose tinted but didn't think it was as good as the Xbox original. Really good fun at the times but the boss fights got a bit tedious.

I now wish NG/Black gets remastered but I fear they would balls it up in some way.
 
Ninja Gaiden II is the best game ever made and Sigma 2 is trash.

Razor's Edge is pretty good. Here's what I wrote about it elsewhere:

I'm impressed by how much they managed to improve NG3 (which is a terrible game), but RE is still far from perfect. Honestly, it's unfair to hold it to the standards set by NGB and NG2 because the guys responsible for those games are long gone. Essentially, this is a new team's first* attempt at Ninja Gaiden, and even though it's really good, it's still sloppy in comparison.

Most of RE's flaws are pretty minor, but they really start to add up after a while. The two biggest issues are the combat and the enemy AI. Maybe it's fair to say that it plays like a dumbed down Ninja Gaiden II. You usually don't have to think about which combos you use - once you understand the fundamentals, pretty much anything will work. There isn't much strategy to it, you can do whatever you feel like doing and most of the time, it'll be fine. You do have to change up your tactics for certain enemies, but it still doesn't have anywhere near NG2's level of depth. That's hardly a deal breaker, though. It's still very fun.

There's no excusing the obnoxious AI that some enemies have, though. Sometimes they'll just decide to block and evade all of your attacks, and there's practically nothing you can do about it. Maybe they thought players would praise how "smart" they are, but it just makes them really annoying to fight. While Team Ninja was busy copy+pasting as much as they could from NG2, they should have looked at that game's AI and figured out why it worked perfectly for it.

But of course, they made a lot of good changes to the game. Like I said, they lifted as much as they could from NG2: Enemies, bosses, the dismemberment system, ninpo, weapons, Tests of Valor, the shop/upgrade system, etc., and it all goes a long way towards saving NG3. They even had some good ideas of their own, like the Cicada Surge and the Steel on Bone mechanic. The SoB was in the original NG3, but it was pretty much broken. It works differently in RE. Enemies now have attacks (typically grabs) that make their hands glow red. You have to dodge one and counter with a heavy attack to start a SoB chain. In NG3, you just had to weaken an enemy, slide into him, and hit Y. There's some risk involved now, especially since grabs usually do insane damage on MN/UN. They also added a limit to how many enemies you can hit in one SoB chain (up to 4), so it's a nice improvement all around.

The Cicada Surge is interesting. It's a new counter (on LT+A) that teleports you behind whoever is attacking you, except you can use it at any point, even during the middle of a combo. It requires some ki and if you mistime it, you'll be vulnerable for a moment, so it's not a safe "I win" button. This lets you dodge hits that you'd normally have to take, like if you were to start attacking an enemy that suddenly does something with super armor, or if you're attacking one enemy, and another comes out of nowhere and tries to attack or grab you (NG3's AI does this all the time). To me, this mechanic goes against Ninja Gaiden's principles, but I think it works perfectly as a bandaid solution for this game in particular. That's because NG3 is much more ground-based than the previous games. Your combos are longer, enemies have more health than before, they dodge launchers constantly, and they're always trying to attack. The Cicada Surge is practically a necessity in this game.

I'm optimistic about Ninja Gaiden 4 now. Razor's Edge is basically Team Ninja's way of saying, "we know NG3 was shit, we're going back to what made the previous games great". They weren't completely successful, but at least they have the right idea now. If NG4 is built from the ground up with the right vision, it might even be great.
 

Shin-chan

Member
Woo, finally completed NG2.

Perhaps rose tinted but didn't think it was as good as the Xbox original. Really good fun at the times but the boss fights got a bit tedious.

I now wish NG/Black gets remastered but I fear they would balls it up in some way.
I think when NG2 is working properly it's the best action game ever made. Black doesn't hold a candle to it.

It's problem is that it's rarely working properly and is far too frustrating for its own good (unless you're godlike at it).

By the way, with the climbing boss it's really easy if you just auto aim the bow instead of manually doing it.
 

jelly

Member
I think when NG2 is working properly it's the best action game ever made. Black doesn't hold a candle to it.

It's problem is that it's rarely working properly and is far too frustrating for its own good (unless you're godlike at it).

By the way, with the climbing boss it's really easy if you just auto aim the bow instead of manually doing it.

Well....shit. Didn't think to try that. Used it for everything else though like dragons etc. That would have saved me an hour.
 

Vlaphor

Member
The same went for DoA, the game was about 'i'm a fighter' and less about sexiness. But look at that 180. DoA5 today is more about sexiness than the franchise ever was. So yeah I sort of miss Itagaki.

To be fair, that was more due to fan outcry and disappointing sales. Since they've gone the ultra-fanservicey route, they've been making an absolute killing in terms of profits and dlc sales...to the point that if someone said that DOA5 in all of its incarnations and extras was the most profitable fighting game of all time, I might just believe them. At the end though, DOA5 was a good fighting game, Ninja Gaiden 3 was shit, RE was just garbage.
 

Shin-chan

Member
Well....shit. Didn't think to try that. Used it for everything else though like dragons etc. That would have saved me an hour.
Haha yeah. Ryu automatically alternates between the face and the chest so you can just steam through it by flipping to one side of the room, firing a fully charged arrow, flip to the other and do the same etc.
 
NG2 has the cool blood and dismemberment,
some A.I used their pieces to throw them at you as projectiles.
The A.I was harder in some areas, but not as some of the NG2S missions.

I prefer sigma 2 because of content (online coop) and obvious graphics upgrade.

but I'm still not happy, I'm still waiting for a NG trilogy PS4 neo version
with 1080 , 4k options and hopefully the Sigma 2 version has blood and not purple magic for blood ;/

I always try to think what we'd get if NG2 had the effort the original NG had.

NG1 had surprising worldbuilding and platforming in it, which helped give some variety even if it wasn't very good, and it's hub world level design is something I really enjoyed.

You can argue that NG2 surpassed it's predecessor in combat, but NG1 offered a more well designed experience as a whole and was much more polished as a result, especially with the later Black additions.

Yes, I agree, the same reason why I prefer NGblack or NG sigma over part 2.
 
So, I find the differences interesting. I like all of the additions to NGS2, its the changes made to existing content and the content that was removed for NGS2 that I have a problem with. Also, NGS2's framerate is more stable than NG2's but I love NG2's wild, mostly 60fps, framerate. I think the encounters are great in both but I would give an edge to NG2. All in all, I love both versions and think they're both worth playing.
 
What about ninja gaiden 3 razors edge on ps3/360?
I tried playing it on WiiU and never really got into it. Is it an ok action game to have fun with even if it doesn't live up to the ninja gaiden name?

So, I really got into this game until I hit the wall known as the T-Rex fight and I never went back. I would like to though because I actually REALLY enjoyed what I played.
 
Ninja Gaiden 2 is more true to the franchise in difficulty and atmosphere, especially with the brutality and the extreme difficult but pumping action scenes. It has a lot of rough edges though in balance and is hindered by technical hickups. You can see they ran out of time for polish.

Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 feels more polished and complete, more easy to play for new comers but lacks some of the OG NG2 soul, feels almost like "80s/90s Berserk style power action anime vs. 2000s/2010s harem fanservice ninja anime" and the additions are questionable (though I found at least Ayane fun to play).

I like both for different reasons and a perfect "remaster" would be a mix between the two. The PS Vita version could've been that, but it's a technical mess with it's constant resolution changing and framerate-slow downs. This needs a real polished "nextgen" port.
 

Llyranor

Member
Sigma 2 corrects some major flaws/annoyances from the original. It's more polished.

Unfortunately, it also removes the best parts of the game, the massive onslaughts th enemies, the trials of valor. It's like the game is afraid of overwhelming the player now, which is a big shame.

NG2 has the better combat encounters by far, so for a game focused primarily on combat, it is the better game, even if it is more rough than Sigma 2.
 

Yukinari

Member
Does Sigma 2 remove the exploding jellyfish things and fix the asinine armadillo boss? Because shit like that is why i refuse to go back to NG2.
 

Shin-chan

Member
Does Sigma 2 remove the exploding jellyfish things and fix the asinine armadillo boss? Because shit like that is why i refuse to go back to NG2.
It actually does. It just removes a lot of other stuff as well.

A massive over correction by Team Ninja.
 
Ninja Gaiden II is the best game ever made and Sigma 2 is trash.

Razor's Edge is pretty good. Here's what I wrote about it elsewhere:

I'm impressed by how much they managed to improve NG3 (which is a terrible game), but RE is still far from perfect. Honestly, it's unfair to hold it to the standards set by NGB and NG2 because the guys responsible for those games are long gone. Essentially, this is a new team's first* attempt at Ninja Gaiden, and even though it's really good, it's still sloppy in comparison.

Most of RE's flaws are pretty minor, but they really start to add up after a while. The two biggest issues are the combat and the enemy AI. Maybe it's fair to say that it plays like a dumbed down Ninja Gaiden II. You usually don't have to think about which combos you use - once you understand the fundamentals, pretty much anything will work. There isn't much strategy to it, you can do whatever you feel like doing and most of the time, it'll be fine. You do have to change up your tactics for certain enemies, but it still doesn't have anywhere near NG2's level of depth. That's hardly a deal breaker, though. It's still very fun.

There's no excusing the obnoxious AI that some enemies have, though. Sometimes they'll just decide to block and evade all of your attacks, and there's practically nothing you can do about it. Maybe they thought players would praise how "smart" they are, but it just makes them really annoying to fight. While Team Ninja was busy copy+pasting as much as they could from NG2, they should have looked at that game's AI and figured out why it worked perfectly for it.

But of course, they made a lot of good changes to the game. Like I said, they lifted as much as they could from NG2: Enemies, bosses, the dismemberment system, ninpo, weapons, Tests of Valor, the shop/upgrade system, etc., and it all goes a long way towards saving NG3. They even had some good ideas of their own, like the Cicada Surge and the Steel on Bone mechanic. The SoB was in the original NG3, but it was pretty much broken. It works differently in RE. Enemies now have attacks (typically grabs) that make their hands glow red. You have to dodge one and counter with a heavy attack to start a SoB chain. In NG3, you just had to weaken an enemy, slide into him, and hit Y. There's some risk involved now, especially since grabs usually do insane damage on MN/UN. They also added a limit to how many enemies you can hit in one SoB chain (up to 4), so it's a nice improvement all around.

The Cicada Surge is interesting. It's a new counter (on LT+A) that teleports you behind whoever is attacking you, except you can use it at any point, even during the middle of a combo. It requires some ki and if you mistime it, you'll be vulnerable for a moment, so it's not a safe "I win" button. This lets you dodge hits that you'd normally have to take, like if you were to start attacking an enemy that suddenly does something with super armor, or if you're attacking one enemy, and another comes out of nowhere and tries to attack or grab you (NG3's AI does this all the time). To me, this mechanic goes against Ninja Gaiden's principles, but I think it works perfectly as a bandaid solution for this game in particular. That's because NG3 is much more ground-based than the previous games. Your combos are longer, enemies have more health than before, they dodge launchers constantly, and they're always trying to attack. The Cicada Surge is practically a necessity in this game.

I'm optimistic about Ninja Gaiden 4 now. Razor's Edge is basically Team Ninja's way of saying, "we know NG3 was shit, we're going back to what made the previous games great". They weren't completely successful, but at least they have the right idea now. If NG4 is built from the ground up with the right vision, it might even be great.

No Ninja Gaiden 3 is terrible and Razor's Edge just a polished turd and used a dirty rag. The bosses are some of the worst in video games. Instead of taking them down less than a minute, there are bosses like Ayane's Day 6 boss. There is no proper healing system, meditation is useless and dying lower the max health. Those 3 things made the final boss on Normal impossible as well as extending KI Bar.

The team had everything that was established in the first two reboots and they manage to fuck up twice by removing everything and later putting it back and failing to tweak them.
 

Justinh

Member
I'm impressed by how much they managed to improve NG3 (which is a terrible game), but RE is still far from perfect. Honestly, it's unfair to hold it to the standards set by NGB and NG2 because the guys responsible for those games are long gone. Essentially, this is a new team's first* attempt at Ninja Gaiden, and even though it's really good, it's still sloppy in comparison.

No Ninja Gaiden 3 is terrible and Razor's Edge just a polished turd and used a dirty rag. The bosses are some of the worst in video games. Instead of taking them down less than a minute, there are bosses like Ayane's Day 6 boss. There is no proper healing system, meditation is useless and dying lower the max health. Those 3 things made the final boss on Normal impossible as well as extending KI Bar.

Interesting. Thanks for your impressions.

I'm absolutely terrible at Black and NG2, but I wanna "figure them out" (git gud) and I imagine that if I do I'd probably want to check out the next game. I think I'll get it if I can buy it at a nice price.
 
The bosses are some of the worst in video games.
Regent of the Mask is probably the only boss in the game that can be called good (or just decent), but the rest of them aren't that bad. They all have clear patterns.

Instead of taking them down less than a minute, there are bosses like Ayane's Day 6 boss.
The only problem with Ayane's day 6 boss is that the camera and targeting system don't function as well as NG2's. Separate them from each other, figure out which combo to use when they're open, and kill the weakest ones first. It's a fine fight, and actually one of RE's good additions.

There is no proper healing system, meditation is useless and dying lower the max health.
Meditation is actually great, since it means you can refill your health between battles without having to use ninpo. That way you can fully enjoy the combat.

Dying doesn't lower your max health, either. It works the same as NG2, except they decided to hide your full health bar for some unknown (and stupid) reason. You can see it in the upgrade menu, at least.

Those 3 things made the final boss on Normal impossible as well as extending KI Bar.
I finished Ultimate Ninja without upgrading my health bar. The final boss is annoying because those crystal enemies are so horribly designed, but it's far from impossible. Use the Lunar or Kusari-gama and stay towards the left side of the platform.


Never thought I'd be defending NG3RE. Of course it doesn't hold a candle to Black or 2, but even a second-rate Ninja Gaiden is better than most of the stuff that comes out these days.
 

Skbzi

Neo Member
Why do I get the feeling this topic was bait? In any case, screw NGS2.

As someone mentioned, all TN had to do was the original NG2 - give it the six month polish it deserved. Instead, they chose to shove the purple pixie dust down our throats.
 
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