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[AceBandage]

So will standard DS games look weird on the system?

Probably no more weird than GB games looked on the GBA.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

I bet this guy is super good at seeing these stereoscopic images http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymdBmM-ej9Y

He can do two at once.

 

[r.pad]

Rumored and not as likely but still possible:

GC level power

Why is that "not as likely"? The 3D tech used in the 3DS stems from features implemented in the GameCube, according to The Wall Street Journal.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Why is that "not as likely"? The 3D tech used in the 3DS stems from features implemented in the GameCube, according to The Wall Street Journal.

What is the Wall Street Journal's source? GAF?

edit: I know the GCN was designed with 3D in mind, but what could the Wall Street Journal know that GAF doesn't know, in terms of actual confirmed details.

 

[Snakeyes]

Why is that "not as likely"? The 3D tech used in the 3DS stems from features implemented in the GameCube, according to The Wall Street Journal.

You're back !

 

[AceBandage]

Why is that "not as likely"? The 3D tech used in the 3DS stems from features implemented in the GameCube, according to The Wall Street Journal.

It's not AS likely, because it's not confirmed by any reliable source (and no, the WSJ isn't really all that reliable here).
It's still likely, though. It's been rumored for a while now.

 

[loosus]

Probably no more weird than GB games looked on the GBA.

What I'm getting at is, if there are multiple screens (in effect), will turning only one of them on to display an image make the screen look slightly smeary since you have to look through the other to see it?

I ask because when you view only one image on those 3D movie covers that basically use the same technique, it looks a little weird.

 

[AceBandage]

What I'm getting at is, if there are multiple screens (in effect), will turning only one of them on to display an image make the screen look slightly smeary since you have to look through the other to see it?

I ask because when you view only one image on those 3D movie covers that basically use the same technique, it looks a little weird.

No.
It'll look just fine (if not better).
The 3D effect can be turned on and off.

 

[Somnid]

Seriously though I can't see the cross-eyed images at all.

 

[Nemo]

Where can I find these jittergifs?

Seriously though I can't see the cross-eyed images at all.

I used those red/green paper glasses. Could only make the text out in 3D but didn't work so well for the clouds, still pretty cool

 

[Souldriver]

seriously, jerkfaces: make jittergifs too.

This god damned. This whole thread is useless! Useless!

 

[r.pad]

It's not AS likely, because it's not confirmed by any reliable source (and no, the WSJ isn't really all that reliable here).
It's still likely, though. It's been rumored for a while now.

WSJ's article was based on reports from Japan, no? I can't see the source now since it requires a subscription.

I reported that the dev kits were similar in power to GameCube in my GDC article.

Still...I'm confused. Is it "not AS likely" or "still likely"?

 

[AceBandage]

WSJ's article was based on reports from Japan, no? I can't see the source now since it requires a subscription.

I reported that the dev kits were similar in power to GameCube in my GDC article.

Still...I'm confused. Is it "not AS likely" or "still likely"?

It's not AS likely as what we've heard from Nikkie (since they have leaked stuff before).
But it's still likely, since we've heard that rumor a few times before from different sources.

 

[DSN2K]

just couldnt resist with game choice and you know its gonna happen :lol

 

[AceBandage]

just couldnt resist with game choice and you know its gonna happen :lol

http://premium1.uploadit.org/dsn2000//nd32.png

Nah, the 3DS will get a port of RE5 (long before the Wii ever would...).

 

[RoboPlato]

just couldnt resist with game choice and you know its gonna happen :lol

http://premium1.uploadit.org/dsn2000//nd32.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
I thought of RE4 3D today and freaked out when I realized that it may happen.

 

[Souldriver]

Facts:

3D without glasses
Successor to DS line (IE, not just a new version of the DS that's out now)
Out before March 2011
Revealed at E3

Rumored but likely:

Analog stick
Rumble
Maybe tilt sensor
3D Stick
Better wireless connection
Better battery
3D Stick
Screen smaller than 4' (about the same as the XL)

Rumored and not as likely but still possible:

GC level power
Using the Tegra 2 chipset
Two analog sticks
3G connection
Screens closer together



Minus the top screen being a touch screen, yeah, probably.

Not that I doubt it, but where does this come from? All from that Nikei article? Because I fear that the wishful thinking of people gets repeated so much, that it becomes "fact" and that there will be lots of disappointed when the actual 3DS is shown. I'm for example talking about the Gamecube level graphics. Is this really all based on that one gaffer who stated in this thread that at GDC this year the GC level graphics were a rumor? Because I'd hardly call that reason enough to list it as a "possible".

 

[r.pad]

You're back !

Yes! I'm happy to be back. It has been a fun couple of weeks with the 3DS being officially announced. The reaction has been interesting. I expected to be questioned and criticized by readers, which is totally cool. I was shocked that two people from another site initially said I made my GDC story up...then said that maybe some of my info was true...then totally clammed up after Nintendo made its announcement.

 

[AceBandage]

Not that I doubt it, but where does this come from? All from that Nikei article? Because I fear that the wishful thinking of people gets repeated so much, that it becomes "fact" and that there will be lots of disappointed when the actual 3DS is shown. I'm for example talking about the Gamecube level graphics. Is this really all based on that one gaffer who stated in this thread that at GDC this year the GC level graphics were a rumor? Because I'd hardly call that reason enough to list it as a "possible".

The first rumored list is what we heard from Nikei.

The rest is stuff we've heard from GDC and other sources.
I believe that NVIDIA themselves said that Nintendo was using the Tegra 2 in their next handheld at one point.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

just couldnt resist with game choice and you know its gonna happen :lol

http://premium1.uploadit.org/dsn2000//nd32.png

Man, that is really nice. Are you still working on it or is this the final image?

 

[DSN2K]

only just realised how big that image is :lol

yeah Im still work on it, I wiil do what your message said!

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

only just realised how big that image is :lol

yeah Im still work on it, I wiil do what your message said!

Actually I think you're pretty much there as far as the depth on the inside. Looks like the buttons will clear.

Looking forward to the final result. Let me know if I can be of any service.

 

[RagnarokX]

seriously, jerkfaces: make jittergifs too.

The effect isn't as pronounced as crossing your eyes, but:

 

[Mashing]

I can't do the cross eye thing either, it just becomes a blurry mess. Also, I used to be able to do the ones where you look straight through them, but I'm not having much luck with that either.

 

[RagnarokX]

I can't do the cross eye thing either, it just becomes a blurry mess. Also, I used to be able to do the ones where you look straight through them, but I'm not having much luck with that either.

To do the crossed eyes thing, cross your eyes until you see 3 images, then relax and let your eyes autofocus. If you try to force it, you'll end up splitting the images back apart as you try to focus on the actual screen. I try to focus on one feature of the combined image and not move my eyes until the 3D image becomes crystal clear.

 

[SlipperySlope]

This thread is just crazy. One fucking PDF with only one detail, and 120+ pages. We're all crazy!

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

To do the crossed eyes thing, cross your eyes until you see 3 images, then relax and let your eyes autofocus. If you try to force it, you'll end up splitting the images back apart as you try to focus on the actual screen. I try to focus on one feature of the combined image and not move my eyes until the 3D image becomes crystal clear.

.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

someone post those re5 box-art gifs.

 

[abstract alien]

I have a question about how still images could possibly work and blend well in-game. Say we have a game such as, iono, Resident Evil 4, and its world is made up of all sorts of polygons, with the sky and other far distance items (and maybe some badly constructed close range objects), composed of textures on flat or curved surfaces. My question is this....does the ability to display things in 3D also have an effect on texture detail? Will clouds actually appear to be there, buttons on panels pop out, or usually flat aspects(fans in stadiums for example) have a 3D effect? Is it really possible, or does the effect only produce results on a polygon and not the actual texture?

I hope I explained that well, sorry if its a bit convoluted.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

The effect isn't as pronounced as crossing your eyes, but:

Huge understatement there.

 

[Starchasing]

I have a question about how still images could possibly work and blend well in-game. Say we have a game such as, iono, Resident Evil 4, and its world is made up of all sorts of polygons, with the sky and other far distance items (and maybe some badly constructed close range objects), composed of textures on flat or curved surfaces. My question is this....does the ability to display things in 3D also have an effect on texture detail? Will clouds actually appear to be there, buttons on panels pop out, or usually flat aspects(fans in stadiums for example) have a 3D effect? Is it really possible, or does the effect only produce results on a polygon and not the actual texture?

I hope I explained that well, sorry if its a bit convoluted.

i think that what the game does is to render 2 frames from two different coodinates, simulating the eyes. Then you see each frame with each eye giving the ilusion of 3d.
so whatever is on 3d will look 3d ... flat clouds on the background would look flat

so nothing is lost on the render... maybe there will be a loss of quality because of the screen

 

[Graphics Horse]

I have a question about how still images could possibly work and blend well in-game. Say we have a game such as, iono, Resident Evil 4, and its world is made up of all sorts of polygons, with the sky and other far distance items (and maybe some badly constructed close range objects), composed of textures on flat or curved surfaces. My question is this....does the ability to display things in 3D also have an effect on texture detail? Will clouds actually appear to be there, buttons on panels pop out, or usually flat aspects(fans in stadiums for example) have a 3D effect? Is it really possible, or does the effect only produce results on a polygon and not the actual texture?

I hope I explained that well, sorry if its a bit convoluted.

This is actually a very good point, designers get away with a lot using flat objects to represent shapes. Viewing in 3D, these become a lot more obvious even when the camera isn't moving.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

I have a question about how still images could possibly work and blend well in-game. Say we have a game such as, iono, Resident Evil 4, and its world is made up of all sorts of polygons, with the sky and other far distance items (and maybe some badly constructed close range objects), composed of textures on flat or curved surfaces. My question is this....does the ability to display things in 3D also have an effect on texture detail? Will clouds actually appear to be there, buttons on panels pop out, or usually flat aspects(fans in stadiums for example) have a 3D effect? Is it really possible, or does the effect only produce results on a polygon and not the actual texture?

I hope I explained that well, sorry if its a bit convoluted.

A flat texture is a flat texture. It's what's underneath that matters. Depth will come from the underlying shapes. The complexity of those shapes will depend on developers. So yeah, in theory you could have buttons, rocks, individual tree branches at different depths... just depends on how deep the creators want to get, and whether the system can push the necessary polygons.

edit: Any developer care to back me up/correct me on that?

 

[abstract alien]

i think that what the game does is to render 2 frames from two different coodinates, simulating the eyes. Then you see each frame with each eye giving the ilusion of 3d.
so whatever is on 3d will look 3d ... flat clouds on the background would look flat

so nothing is lost on the render... maybe there will be a loss of quality because of the screen

A flat texture is a flat texture. It's what's underneath that matters. Depth will come from the underlying shapes. The complexity of those shapes will depend on developers. So yeah, in theory you could have buttons, rocks, individual tree branches at different depths... just depends on how deep the creators want to get, and whether the system can push the necessary polygons.

edit: Any developer care to back me up/correct me on that?

Ah, gotcha. I was hoping that some texture effects such as bump and normal mapping would have the ability to appear "exaggerated" so to speak, producing a better result.

This is actually a very good point, designers get away with a lot using flat objects to represent shapes. Viewing in 3D, these become a lot more obvious even when the camera isn't moving.

Yeah, I was hoping for some sort of efficiency increase due to it being able to display 3D content. I've done a bit of game development, and it really is something that would help greatly, but I guess we wont get it this go around. If anything, developers are going to have to be even more careful when it comes to 3D(z-axis movement) world creation.

 

[Mashing]

To do the crossed eyes thing, cross your eyes until you see 3 images, then relax and let your eyes autofocus. If you try to force it, you'll end up splitting the images back apart as you try to focus on the actual screen. I try to focus on one feature of the combined image and not move my eyes until the 3D image becomes crystal clear.

That was definitely working but it's really uncomfortable to keep my eyes in that position and then I have to end up forcing them to focus on the actual images.

 

[swerve]

My question is this....does the ability to display things in 3D also have an effect on texture detail? Will clouds actually appear to be there, buttons on panels pop out, or usually flat aspects(fans in stadiums for example) have a 3D effect? Is it really possible, or does the effect only produce results on a polygon and not the actual texture?

If it's using parallax barrier, then when the system renders the view from the two game angles, all the normal mapping and texture lighting effects will be rendered from those separate positions.

This should mean that yes, a well textured bump-mapped surface will appear to have 3D bumps (because each separate image will have different light calculations for the bumps, which when interpreted by your brain make them stand out). It'll seem a bit like magic, in practice.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Ah, gotcha. I was hoping that some texture effects such as bump and normal mapping would have the ability to appear "exaggerated" so to speak, producing a better result.

It may be possible with bump mapping or something but my knowledge about the actual development of games is pretty limited. I'll leave that to a professional.

 

[Somnid]

Ah, gotcha. I was hoping that some texture effects such as bump and normal mapping would have the ability to appear "exaggerated" so to speak, producing a better result.

If you interleave to complete renderings then the texture should still look 3D.

 

[SlipperySlope]

i think that what the game does is to render 2 frames from two different coodinates, simulating the eyes. Then you see each frame with each eye giving the ilusion of 3d.
so whatever is on 3d will look 3d ... flat clouds on the background would look flat

so nothing is lost on the render... maybe there will be a loss of quality because of the screen

Rendering the same frame twice? That would be quite the performance hog.

Unless you mean render frame 1 from one position, then frame 2 from the 2nd position. That would look funny I would think, and would appear as a framerate drop I'd think.

 

[abstract alien]

If it's using parallax barrier, then when the system renders the view from the two game angles, all the normal mapping and texture lighting effects will be rendered from those separate positions.

This should mean that yes, a well textured bump-mapped surface will appear to have 3D bumps (because each separate image will have different light calculations for the bumps, which when interpreted by your brain make them stand out). It'll seem a bit like magic, in practice.

I really hope you are right, as we could get some seriously detailed visuals with this. I guess it would take up twice the amount of ram(and overall space) since you would need two different textures instead of just one though, which would put a limit on the design scope.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Man, 3D textures would be awesome.

I'm wondering if we'll be seeing any older games re-rendered in 3D? Like Ocarina...

 

[Starchasing]

Rendering the same frame twice? That would be quite the performance hog.

Unless you mean render frame 1 from one position, then frame 2 from the 2nd position. That would look funny I would think, and would appear as a framerate drop I'd think.

yes it is, but it is a small screen, with low resolution so we hopefully still get GC graphics
in 3d ...

 

[Somnid]

I really hope you are right, as we could get some seriously detailed visuals with this. I guess it would take up twice the amount of ram(and overall space) since you would need different visuals instead of just one though, which would put a limit on the design scope.

This probably brings up a good point in that there will likely be games that for performance might use some sort of post-processing on a single rendering making the 3D effect not quite as strong.

 

[DSN2K]

and Im done(for now) :lol

small image hides alot of details, looks quite next gen compared to the DSi

 

[abstract alien]

Man, 3D textures would be awesome.

I'm wondering if we'll be seeing any older games re-rendered in 3D? Like Ocarina...

Honestly, even though Ocarina is older, it may be more feasible to do wind waker. The more simplistic design and straight forward texture art could not only make it more possible(and less frustrating for nintendo) but also have an even greater 3D effect due to the color palette and crisp lines.

yes it is, but it is a small screen, with low resolution so we hopefully still get GC graphics
in 3d ...

The smaller screen size and resolution is what I keep forgetting about, and what will take a huge load off of the resources.

This probably brings up a good point in that there will likely be games that for performance might use some sort of post-processing on a single rendering making the 3D effect not quite as strong.

Hmmmm...how would this look(theoretically speaking)? Would the image just not "pop out" as much, or would it still pop the same, but look a bit fuzzed?

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

http://premium1.uploadit.org/dsn2000//comparision.jpg

and Im done(for now) :lol

small image hides alot of details, looks quite next gen compared to the DSi

Looking good.

Honestly, even though Ocarina is older, it may be more feasible to do wind waker. The more simplistic design and straight forward texture art could not only make it more possible(and less frustrating for nintendo) but also have an even greater 3D effect due to the color palette and crisp lines.

Yeah that's a good point and Wind Waker also blurs distant objects which would probably be a really nice effect in 3D.

 

[onegoodlogan]

and Im done(for now) :lol

small image hides alot of details, looks quite next gen compared to the DSi

I'll take one of these in black please. Where can I send the cash?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'd actually quite like it to look like the MS Courier (but with buttons).

 

[jamesinclair]

So I was thinking about graphics....

SNES 1991
GBA 2001
10 years.

N64 1996
DS 2004
8 years

GC 2001
3DS 2010
9 years

So the graphics should be GC quality or better.

Mind you....
DC 1999
PSP 2005
6 years.

X360 2005
3DS 2010
5 years....

Graphics COULD potentially be close to 360 level....but we;re talking about Nintendo.
(PSP2 with PS3 graphics confirmed)

 

[brain_stew]

I really hope you are right, as we could get some seriously detailed visuals with this. I guess it would take up twice the amount of ram(and overall space) since you would need two different textures instead of just one though, which would put a limit on the design scope.

No you don't. The framebuffer will probably be twice as big (depending on how its implemented) but that's only a very small fraction of your overall memory budget.

If you've got an Nvidia card you can try it out now if you want. Just use the "3D Vision discover" mode in your drivers and pop on some good old red/cyan paper glasses. It'll give you good idea of for excellent depth you can get in any game even if it wasn't ever made for 3D. Obviously on the 3DS you won't lose all your colour accuracy as you do with anaglyph 3D but the depth effect should be similar.

Honestly I think pretty much every game can benefit from stereo 3D and since none of Nintedo's titles have ever used really intricate fancy framebuffer and shader effects, getting them to work in 3D will be a doddle.