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[ggx2ac]

Yeah, those second-hand "sources" fail to provide any new information or perspective from already leaked information.

I really doubt 25GB/s bandwidth is true.

...

To me vern is the victim of telephone game leaks

64-bit LPDDR4 RAM could still be true as it's based off the Jetson TX1 dev-kit, it's not the exact same situation as when PS4 went from 4GB to 8GB of GDDR5 of the specific GB per chip because 4GB of LPDDR4 RAM is already available.

Parker has 128-bit LPDDR4 RAM which doubled the bandwidth, Nintendo could have opted to do the same as even 3DS has 128-bit RAM but I have no clue if third party developers would have been notified of those details for what's to be expected in the final specs.

Vern's source isn't that reliable at the moment because red flags have been thrown up from Vern saying that Nintendo has secrets that haven't been revealed and that he can't reveal more info yet.

Add to that if he can't get his source verified here, then he should go to a media outlet that he can corroborate or verify his source to see if the rumours have any weight to them.

Vern by "think outside the box" and "very focused" comments do you imply add-ons?

Even that teasing is a bit of a red flag.

 

[AzaK]

I was speaking of Switch as a "home console," the same way Nintendo have referred to it. For a home console, it does not even come close to matching the much-decried Xbox One. As a home console, it is roughly comparable to the jump from Gamecube to Wii. That absolutely killed the potential 3rd party support Wii could have sported. Now, from what we hear of the architecture, it's very modern, so the scenarios aren't exactly the same. Still, it is looking like Switch may be running multiplatforms at sub-HD resolutions in a year when Sony and MS are moving on to 4k. That's...horrible.

As a handheld, as I've said, it's quite nice. The problem there is that every statistic shows the handheld market shrinking, and quite drastically at that. I'm also interested in seeing how the Japanese audience will respond to the size/battery life of Switch. I am expecting good indie support, support from the likes of Atlus, Square Enix, and Capcom, but that did not save the Wii U or allow 3DS to sell as well as the DS.

At the very least, Switch looks to be a good foundation to build on if Nintendo have built the OS properly.



Correct, but it's clear Nintendo have no intentions in 3rd party games matching the resolutions of their PS4 counterparts. Switch is very much a portable device that can output to the tv despite what Nintendo's marketing claims. That is, unless your expectations for a home console begin and end with Wii U.

I agree that switch is a portable that you can play to your TV. No way is it a home console first and foremost, no matter how Nintendo want to spin it. It's also going to come with all the downsides of said portable first that we've been talking about for ever.

Regarding AAA support dropping off (In your other post) I'm not so certain it will die when Scorpio and PS4Pro are the norm, so long as 1) Titles have sold well on it and 2, it does really get the big engine support.

32 MB of Edram might be back?

I fucking hope not for developer's sake. Just put in fast main RAM.

 

[Schnozberry]

Are you sure it's really not an old dev kit?

If they are overclocking the X1 in the devkits to get where they want to be with the final hardware, it probably won't matter if they replace them. They'll just wait until they get through prototyping the retail units to make the final kit.

 

[Instro]

I'm not sure that even LPDDR4 with 128 bit bus by itself would be enough bandwidth for 1080p, maybe someone can better comment on that. I would think there still needs to be some additional solution...Although maybe the RAM speed could vary when docked as well? IIRC there are LPDDR4 chips out there that can offer 32GB/s at 64 bit.

 

[mikezilla2]

so mobile phone specs ? might still be interested in getting one

 

[vern]

Vern by "think outside the box" and "very focused" comments do you imply add-ons?

Not exactly. Can't be much more specific at this time I apologize. The machine is focused on playing games,

Yeah, those second-hand "sources" fail to provide any new information or perspective from already leaked information.

I really doubt 25GB/s bandwidth is true.

First, it's very nonNintendo to have such a slow RAM for a console that has otherwise Nintendo's DNA all over it.

Second, I don't think you could get 25 GB/s nowadays even if you tried.

Third, I very much doubt retail units are as close to devKits as they seem to be.

To me vern is the victim of telephone game leaks

If by telephone you mean direct from the source via a phone yes. I've said, and others have as well, that they might not be exactly the same as retail units but it's about what you should expect. If things change I expect my source to tell me, but they are under no obligation to. I reconfirmed since I started getting questions in this thread and sought clarification from my source, they said the info they gave me is still correct. Though of course they could be not telling me new info to avoid leaks coming back to them. I've also repeatedly said specs don't mean much to me, as I'm not a technical person, so with regards to specs I mainly can confirm or deny what other leaks there are but I'm not who you should look for for tech shit. Other users in here know more than me. That's why i never even came into this thread until yesterday when people moved the conversation from another thread to here. I can assure you though that my source is direct and not through he said she said he said telephone games. Again, I understand skepticism so no worries there.

I personally think the other stuff I've talked about is much more interesting.

64-bit LPDDR4 RAM could still be true as it's based off the Jetson TX1 dev-kit, it's not the exact same situation as when PS4 went from 4GB to 8GB of GDDR5 of the specific GB per chip because 4GB of LPDDR4 RAM is already available.

Parker has 128-bit LPDDR4 RAM which doubled the bandwidth, Nintendo could have opted to do the same as even 3DS has 128-bit RAM but I have no clue if third party developers would have been notified of those details for what's to be expected in the final specs.

Vern's source isn't that reliable at the moment because red flags have been thrown up from Vern saying that Nintendo has secrets that haven't been revealed and that he can't reveal more info yet.

Add to that if he can't get his source verified here, then he should go to a media outlet that he can corroborate or verify his source to see if the rumours have any weight to them.



Even that teasing is a bit of a red flag.

Ehh..I don't care that much about leaking to media. I'm a gamer and a member of a discussion board, I'm just here talking to like minded people. I don't have much more I can share so take the info I've already given and do what you want with it. At the very least it has reignited discussion. Again, take it however you want, I've said most of what I can say and I think I've been quite direct with a few things without outright saying them. When the system is revealed or when leaks come you'll see that a few things I've said make perfect sense in retrospect. The issue is people think there are some grand reveals waiting, when I'm saying think much more simply and "Nintendo like."

I don't have much more to add so I'll most likely be out of this thread for awhile into new info comes. Spec talk goes in one ear and out the other for me, I'm too dumb for all that.

 

[th3sicknness]

Granted the switch is behind on power. I just don't think the Scorpio or PS4 Pro are going to be substantial enough. You are not getting true 4k and in reality you will end up getting more stable 1080.
Games will be the exact same nothing special.

 

[Vic]

The smallest EDRAM that ever got to full scale production was 28nm. It's not an option here. They'd have to use ESRAM or tweak the cache sizes (Larger L2 and add an L3 pool, most likely).

The Wii U 32MB eDRAM located in the GPU die can actually also act as a L3 cache for the CPU, so the idea of a L3 cache being shared by both the CPU and GPU isn't that far fetched, especially since the main chip for the Switch is a SoC.

 

[ggx2ac]

I'm not sure that even LPDDR4 with 128 bit bus by itself would be enough bandwidth for 1080p, maybe someone can better comment on that. I would think there still needs to be some additional solution...Although maybe the RAM speed could vary when docked as well? IIRC there are LPDDR4 chips out there that can offer 32GB/s at 64 bit.

That's why it would be funny if docking the unit only upscaled the game unless it was already built at 1080p from the ground up.

Were there any other rumours aside from this?

This information again came from sources A (Nintendo), B (Ubisoft) and D (Manufacturing). None could confirm whether the dock is a PlayStation VR-style processing box which helps power higher resolution play when docked, or if docking the console simply allows the handheld to overclock and provides better performance that way. All sources claim the hardware has an easier time running docked compared to when out and about as a portable.

http://letsplayvideogames.com/2016/10/a-deep-dive-on-lpvgs-nintendo-switch-reports-and-info/

It only tells us the hardware has an easier time running when docked which is a problem because of how it can be interpreted.

Of course this can be interpreted as saying, "The Switch is underclocked when portable but when docked it can increase its clock speed."

Although that doesn't answer if the game increases rendering resolution, it could be upscaled for all we know and the clock speed increase could be to ensure the game runs smoothly with having less frequency of framerate drops for example.

We need more specific information on this but we still don't know much about the final retail units or final dev-kits in the first place.

 

[Schnozberry]

The Wii U 32MB eDRAM located in the GPU die can actually also act as a L3 cache for the CPU, so the idea of a L3 cache being shared by both the CPU and GPU isn't that far fetched, especially since the main chip for the Switch is a SoC.

They'd have enough room for it on 16nm, especially if they went with A72 cores. How much they could fit, and how expensive it would be, is the real question.

 

[EDarkness]

It would fit with my theory that the best way to play is to have it docked. What that means overall, we don't know. I would hope that docked allows for overclocking which allows 1080p for games.

 

[Vic]

They'd have enough room for it on 16nm, especially if they went with A72 cores. How much they could fit, and how expensive it would be, is the real question.

Never heard of an L3 cache on-die as big as 32MB. They might exist for server/supercomputer processors. Anyway, maybe a fast cache memory chip that plays the role of L3 caching and/or VRAM is placed beside the SoC die on the main integrated circuit makes more sense, but I think I'm stretching here lol.

 

[Proelite]

You're not going to get 16nm edram as i believe the smallest node for Edram is 28nm.

You can have 16nm esram on die but esram is like a fraction of the densities and many times the cost, limiting the amount you can have on a small apu to 32-64mb at 16nm.

32mb should be enough as it's the same amount as in the Xb1.

50gb/s should be enough with the latest Nvidia bandwidth compression features.

If they go with a 64bit bus, then I would like to see a 32mb of esram.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Am I missing something or are people asking for a cable powered console performance from a hybrid tablet?

 

[Vic]

Am I missing something or are people asking for a cable powered console performance from a hybrid tablet?

Some people might hope so. I don't. The TDP profile of the Switch will obviously limit it's raw power.

But at the same time, those who believe it's going to produce graphics barely better than the last-gen or the Wii U will be greatly surprised. Lot of games with look more akin to the Xbox One and PS4, but the lack of raw power will make the difference very obvious once compared side by side.

 

[ASIS]

Am I missing something or are people asking for a cable powered console performance from a hybrid tablet?

We are asking for a competitive home console. It's such a crazy proposition to make I know. But then again, where is the home console aspect of the switch then?

 

[Speely]

We are asking for a competitive home console. It's such a crazy proposition to make I know. But then again, where is the home console aspect of the switch then?

In the control method options (which facilitate home console play out of the box) and the fact that part of the device is a unit that sits in front of your TV at home?

 

[ASIS]

In the control method options (which facilitate home console play out of the box) and the fact that part of the device is a unit that sits in front of your TV at home?

The control methods can be played while in handheld mode and the dock can easily be replaced with a cable, it's not an integral part at all it seems.

 

[antonz]

Pretty sure Best Buy already leaked part of the angle Nintendo will be pushing heavily

Nintendo Switch. The mobility of a handheld. The power of a home gaming system.

 

[Schnozberry]

Never heard of an L3 cache on-die as big as 32MB. They might exist for server/supercomputer processors. Anyway, maybe a fast cache memory chip that plays the role of L3 caching and/or VRAM is placed beside the SoC die on the main integrated circuit makes more sense, but I think I'm stretching here lol.

With Nvidia's color and texture compression techniques and tile based defferred rendering and rasterization, there's no way it would need to be 32MB. Doubling the L2 Cache and adding a few MB of L3 Cache on the GPU should be more than enough to keep the SM's busy. If they felt they need to add a pool of cache shared between the CPU and GPU, they could perhaps add 8 or 16MB for both. They would primarily be concerned with keeping the GPU and CPU busy, and providing some texture cache.

They wouldn't have the same need for a large scratch pad for a framebuffer and deferred render targets like with the Wii U or Xbox One.

 

[Cute Dragon Here]

I'm just simply cautiously optimistic about any possible specs at this point. At least no matter how it goes it's going to be... well, maybe dozens, or perhaps over a hundred 3DSes duct-taped together by the end of the day.

So long as it has the games I want I'll be very happy, indeed.

If I were doing the guessing I think it probably won't be too weak to preclude porting of third party games that could run on an Xone...

 

[ASIS]

Pretty sure Best Buy already leaked part of the angle Nintendo will be pushing heavily

Link?

 

[Gaspard]

Pretty sure Best Buy already leaked part of the angle Nintendo will be pushing heavily

I googled that and it says that statement has been on Nintendo's site since the Switch was revealed.

 

[antonz]

I googled that and it says that statement has been on Nintendo's site since the Switch was revealed.

Ah ok. I know they used it right away on twitter when the system was announced.

 

[TLZ]

I think that their insistence about calling Switch a home console might bite them in the ass at some point. They could have positioned it as such in a more subtle way later in the ads.

Completely agree.

Unless they have surprises come January that would help the home console case.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Dont see why people are so concerned about the Switch. As far as i'm concerned its Nintendo's best move in a long time. No shitty gimmick controllers as first priority for the system, the same basic rendering features are supported, and the unit is decently powerful for ports(cut down or otherwise)

Does it really matter any of the smaller details?

 

[Matt]

Completely agree.

Unless they have surprises come January that would help the home console case.

Nah. Positioning it as a mobile home console is the smarter move. "It's a game system that I can take with me" has a lot broader appeal than "here's another mobile device."

 

[ASIS]

Dont see why people are so concerned about the Swith. As far as i'm concered its Nintendo's best move in a long time. No shitty gimmick controllers as first priority for the system, the same basic rendering features are supported, and the unit is decently powerful for ports(cut down or otherwise)

Does it really matter any of the smaller details?

If I have to be honest, no I don't care for the details. To me this is a console that might just get the most support from Nintendo since the SNES. That's very exciting to think about.

But I care about what other games might come to the system. A library full of watered down 3rd party titles and remasters are definitely a missed opportunity. That's why I want the system to be powerful enough.

 

[Speely]

The control methods can be played while in handheld mode and the dock can easily be replaced with a cable, it's not an integral part at all it seems.

You can't play local multiplayer on one screen while in handheld mode. Also, you don't know what docked mode offers yet, so saying a cable could replicate it is likewise potentially inaccurate.

 

[Astral Dog]

I'm not sure that even LPDDR4 with 128 bit bus by itself would be enough bandwidth for 1080p, maybe someone can better comment on that. I would think there still needs to be some additional solution...Although maybe the RAM speed could vary when docked as well? IIRC there are LPDDR4 chips out there that can offer 32GB/s at 64 bit.

who says NX will be 1080p?

For slightly below Wii U graphics maybe it can

 

[ASIS]

You can't play local multiplayer on one screen while in handheld mode. Also, you don't know what docked mode offers yet, so saying a cable could replicate it is likewise potentially inaccurate.

Actually you can play local multiplayer with the handheld mode. The ad made sure that was a key feature of portability.

When new information surfaces around the dock, I'll retract my statement. But so far all rumors point to the dock just being a dock. No more.

 

[Matt]

The control methods can be played while in handheld mode and the dock can easily be replaced with a cable, it's not an integral part at all it seems.

The system would not be the same without the dock.

 

[Instro]

who says NX will be 1080p?

For slightly below Wii U graphics maybe it can

How do you figure that...?

 

[KingBroly]

Nah. Positioning it as a mobile home console is the smarter move. "It's a game system that I can take with me" has a lot broader appeal than "here's another mobile device."

It's why putting Skyrim in that video was smart, because it sold a ton of copies, so it's well known. I know people say it's a 5 year old game, and yeah, it is, BUT, it also just got re-released on current gen. So it's Nintendo saying 'this is a current gen system you can take on the go.'

 

[maven]

Vern by "think outside the box" and "very focused" comments do you imply add-ons?

Long time lurker, first time poster, but that sounds like smart phone integration to me.

It would be very "nintendo" to just say fuck it - no browser, no netflix. Just play your damn games and it syncs to your nintendo app on your phone.

 

[Dante83]

I think iphone 7 is more powerful than this thing...

 

[Roo]

I think iphone 7 is more powerful than this thing...

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[TLZ]

The control methods can be played while in handheld mode and the dock can easily be replaced with a cable, it's not an integral part at all it seems.

The system would not be the same without the dock.

Oooh!

 

[Branduil]

TBH I would personally rather have Nintendo court indies more than AAA Western devs. But I understand why they have to at least try to get them onboard.

 

[ASIS]

The system would not be the same without the dock.

If it is just a dock that charges and plugs to your TV, I fail to see how. You can't even use HDDs on this thing.

 

[NateDrake]

If it is just a dock that charges and plugs to your TV, I fail to see how. You can't even use HDDs on this thing.

The dock has USB 2.0 and a 3.0. It doesn't allow external HDD. Perhaps there is something else that will put them to use one day.

 

[Branduil]

If it is just a dock that charges and plugs to your TV, I fail to see how. You can't even use HDDs on this thing.

Well, you probably can't do TV out without the dock.

 

[atbigelow]

who says NX will be 1080p?

For slightly below Wii U graphics maybe it can

The specs listed in this thread would result in a machine more powerful than a Wii U. So yeah, pretty sure it could do 1080p.

 

[Shogmaster]

What if the dock is just a fancy scaler for 720p to 1080p?

 

[KingBroly]

The dock has USB 2.0 and a 3.0. It doesn't allow external HDD. Perhaps there is something else that will put them to use one day.

Plug it into the SUPER DOCK

Now you're playing Power, SUPER SWITCH POWER

 

[QaaQer]

If it is just a dock that charges and plugs to your TV, I fail to see how. You can't even use HDDs on this thing.

It has a scaler, apparently, and acts as an ir bar a la the Wii.

Nah. Positioning it as a mobile home console is the smarter move. "It's a game system that I can take with me" has a lot broader appeal than "here's another mobile device."

I fail to see a difference.

 

[Speely]

Actually you can play local multiplayer with the handheld mode. The ad made sure that was a key feature of portability.

When new information surfaces around the dock, I'll retract my statement. But so far all rumors point to the dock just being a dock. No more.

You cannot play local mp on ONE SCREEN in handheld mode, which was what I said.

 

[Matt]

I fail to see a difference.

The marketing approaches are entirely different.

 

[Roo]

You cannot play local mp on ONE SCREEN in handheld mode, which was what I said.

Did you miss the Mario Kart or the girls on the roof segments of the Switch reveal trailer?

 

[Branduil]

It has a scaler, apparently, and acts as an ir bar a la the Wii.

I fail to see a difference.

The difference is you can't play open world Zelda and Skyrim on a mobile device.