Could you give an example of what you mean here? I'm using the term deferred rendering to mean deferred shading/lighting (I'm not familiar with deferred lighting besides reading the Wikipedia-entry, but I have implemented simple deferred shading). Maybe "deferred rendering" as a term means something besides these two techniques?
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Nintendo's "colors" and deferred rendering
- Thread starter freezamite
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Could you give an example of what you mean here? I'm using the term deferred rendering to mean deferred shading/lighting (I'm not familiar with deferred lighting besides reading the Wikipedia-entry, but I have implemented simple deferred shading). Maybe "deferred rendering" as a term means something besides these two techniques?
The_Hitcher89
Member
As someone who doesn't care for Mario Kart (or Nintendo in general tbh) at all, this one looks absolutely beautiful
Resolution matters, lighting matters. I'm not sure what the surprise is. Doesn't seem like lighting matters as much as resolution when we're comparing the One and PSOne games, since I haven't seen any lighting differences between the two so far.
I do think lighting means more in the long run as graphics age; lighting is what makes color, and as models always creep forward in polygons and begin to look "cheap and outdated", lighting stays the same. Here's a Space Pirate from Metroid Prime. It looks fucking terrible; it was great by the standards of the time, but nowadays it looks like an oversaturated generic monster alien.
But the funny thing is, nobody saw the Space Pirate that way. If you play Metroid Prime, you do not see a technicolor blocky Space Pirate, you see a Space Pirate that blends into the dark labs and mining facilities, with only its bright orange flaming eyes perfectly visible. Lighting influences color, and it's one of the main reasons Metroid Prime still looks amazing while other great-looking games of the time (Halo CE) have aged more poorly.
The same applies to other media. Ask people what color Han Solo's coat was in the Empire Strikes Back, and they might call it blue. It's not. The actual coat is brown, but it often was under blue lighting, so people often saw it as blue.
I do think lighting means more in the long run as graphics age; lighting is what makes color, and as models always creep forward in polygons and begin to look "cheap and outdated", lighting stays the same. Here's a Space Pirate from Metroid Prime. It looks fucking terrible; it was great by the standards of the time, but nowadays it looks like an oversaturated generic monster alien.
But the funny thing is, nobody saw the Space Pirate that way. If you play Metroid Prime, you do not see a technicolor blocky Space Pirate, you see a Space Pirate that blends into the dark labs and mining facilities, with only its bright orange flaming eyes perfectly visible. Lighting influences color, and it's one of the main reasons Metroid Prime still looks amazing while other great-looking games of the time (Halo CE) have aged more poorly.
The same applies to other media. Ask people what color Han Solo's coat was in the Empire Strikes Back, and they might call it blue. It's not. The actual coat is brown, but it often was under blue lighting, so people often saw it as blue.
Resolution matters, lighting matters. I'm not sure what the surprise is. Doesn't seem like lighting matters as much as resolution when we're comparing the One and PSOne games, since I haven't seen any lighting differences between the two so far.
I do think lighting means more in the long run as graphics age; lighting is what makes color, and as models always creep forward in polygons and begin to look "cheap and outdated", lighting stays the same. Here's a Space Pirate from Metroid Prime. It looks fucking terrible; it was great by the standards of the time, but nowadays it looks like an oversaturated generic monster alien.
But the funny thing is, nobody saw the Space Pirate that way. If you play Metroid Prime, you do not see a technicolor Space Pirate, you see a Space Pirate that blends into the dark labs and mining facilities. Lighting influences color, and it's one of the main reasons Metroid Prime still looks amazing while other great-looking games of the time (Halo CE) have aged more poorly.
The same applies to other media. Ask people what color Han Solo's coat was in the Empire Strikes Back, and they might call it blue. It's not. The actual coat is brown, but it often was under blue lighting, so people often saw it as blue.
Holy shit. The jump from MP to MP3 was bigger than I thought
freezamite
Banned
Well, the difference between a forward and a deferred renderer can only be estimated looking at what they're good at, but if that's the case, then this shows to at which point a deferred renderer can be pushed on the WiiU much further than on the Xbox 360 (lowest denominator when it comes to deferred engines on consoles).
MK8 wouldn't have so many real time lights if it wasn't for the deferred engine, and the number of lights are limited by the bandwidth available which is much lower on a Xbox 360 which would explain why they didn't go as far as Nintendo has gone with Mario Kart.
Bandwidth and memory subsystem is all designed around deferred rendering, in comparison with Xbox 360's design towards forward rendering (not that there can't be deferred games on it, but the console can't handle them as well as it handles forward rendered games).x86 said:
The GPU is at least an HD4000 so it has a richer featureset. All in all, that's not the point.
While its true that you can enjoy something without knowing its how it works exactly, it's also true that you will still enjoy that same thing every time you see it.MarkusRJR said:
I've seen tons of people here saying that a game with a fuck-ton of real time lights doesn't look good and is not impressive technically or different from what was normal on the last generation of hardware, only because it's something from a console that according to them shouldn't be able to do it.
In other words and going by your example, you describe someone that doesn't know what a good directed movie is but he enjoys them, and I describe someone that in front of a well directed film says "this film has a shitty direction" because he has read that this concrete director has been doing shit during decades.
I have nothing against the first kind of attitude, but I'm totally against the second one.
In all of these the game on the left is superior though
Mario 3D World is very different to Galaxy because it's a direct sequel to a different game that was an attempt at extruding NSMB into three dimensions. Before that 64, Sunshine and Galaxy were set in completely different environments.
Metroid Prime 1, 2 and 3 had very different worlds with Echoes' light/dark and Corruption's collection of planets. It was also a trilogy that ended as a whole took Metroid in a new direction. Other M on the other hand was stuck in the past, tried be a direct sequel to Super Metroid and the Iwata Asks for the game even has the title: 'An NES Game with the Latest Technology'.
Apophis2036
Banned
I don't actually think people really care about the details of graphics, they simply want to shout about them because their chosen machine displays games best. The same people shouting about how they couldn't possibly live without 1080p native are the same ones that were shouting about how resolution doesn't matter and sub HD upscaled to 720p was fine a couple of years ago.
The sad thing is PS4/Xbone fans go mental when some PC owner bad mouths their consoles capabilities but then lots of the same PS4/Xbone owners go into WiiU threads and shit all over whatever exclusive games it has. People in glass houses...
Those same people also need to remember Xbone is ~8x WiiU and PS4 ~10x WiiU in computational power.
MK8 and Smash both piss all over All Stars and LBP Karting in terms of lighting, character models, detail, level scope and framerate so I think they are more than impressive and should be praised.
As for the whole PS4 vs Xbone debate, most games will look very, very similar with only resolution being the difference. Hopefully for the Xbone guys (I own a PS4) MS can improve the middleware enough so they get 900p instead of 720p.
Why do you keep confusing the number of lights in a scene with the color of a scene? Deferred rendering has nothing to do with the way that Nintendo saturates the color in their games, that's an absolute design choice that they purposely strive for and it's completely separate from the rendering type the game uses. These techniques that you claim are the reason for Nintendo colors have been used since the original Xbox. This is not a new technology.
The fact is, if Microsoft wanted a game that looked like MK8 on the 360 they could easily do so, colors and all. Bottom line, all this talk about deferred rendering being responsible for the games color is flat out wrong, you could have a million lights in a scene and it won't make colors pop the way that Nintendo is famous for doing. That's a symptom of Nintendo's artists doing what they do best, not the rendering technique.
OmegaDL50
Member
This discussion in general reminds me of this youtube video
Which more or less summarizes my thoughts much easier rather going into a lengthy technical discussion on the things about bump mapping, shaders, textures, real time shadows, Ambient Occlusion, Anstropic Filtering, Anti-aliasing techniques, and lighting techniques such as HDR - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9n01J8_kws
Maybe the OP is confusing deferred lighting for high dynamic range instead? He did say he isn't a native English speaker, so perhaps there IS a level of "lost in translation" going on here.
Which more or less summarizes my thoughts much easier rather going into a lengthy technical discussion on the things about bump mapping, shaders, textures, real time shadows, Ambient Occlusion, Anstropic Filtering, Anti-aliasing techniques, and lighting techniques such as HDR - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9n01J8_kws
Maybe the OP is confusing deferred lighting for high dynamic range instead? He did say he isn't a native English speaker, so perhaps there IS a level of "lost in translation" going on here.
freezamite
Banned
It's such a relieve that I've never pretended to care about graphics besides being curious about them, and as I said, if SASRT uses a deferred renderer engine then it just shows how limited the Xbox 360 was if one went with that approach on it.
Both SASRT and MK8 are as colourful as they can be, but one is completely above the other one in terms of lighting (and that's what was pointed as "just colors"), so instead of a forward renderer vs a deferred renderer you end with a deferred renderer on Xbox 360 vs a deferred renderer on a WiiU.
The point still remains, real time lights are not just artstyle.
1. Deferred rendering has been used since a lot of years, yes, I do know that even when its still the most modern approach in comparison to forward rendering and hasn't been used a lot in terms of quantity.Rafterman said:
2. Colours per se is what Nintendo has been using since the NES, WE ALL KNOW THAT.
3. The extent to which MK8 uses that technique is something that was never seen on Xbox 360.
No, that's totally wrong. Don't you see the difference between Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart Wii? The problem here is that I use the term colour to refer to the real time lighting of the game, but that's what I'm criticizing.Rafterman said:
No, you wouldn't be able to lit so many characters with so many lights if you went with a forward engine, then you can go with a deferred engine and be so limited on it that it's even hard to differentiate it from a traditional forward renderer, which is not MK8's case.
Just tell me a game on the Xbox 360 with that lighting. Just one.
OmegaDL50
Member
If this was simply about the 360 and the Wii U usage of lighting, then wouldn't SASRT look just as "colorful" on the Wii U version comparatively to MK8 then. It's probably more about how the rendering engine is utilized between the various ports on each respective platform.
I am trying to understand what you are trying to say here.
Does this PC version of SASRT also achieve this "deferred lighting" effect you are focusing on?
thank you
Risk Breaker
Member
I think you mean bloom, OP, not deferred rendering.
Those are not easily showable and explaining them to someone with lttile prior knowledge on the matter would be difficult.
Though, most of those are irrelevant. The exact numbers of light sources, for example, and so on does not need to be known to know that there are more. This can be seen to someone who knows what they are looking at.
For a person versed in tech, a lot can be told about an image just by looking at it. Such as something using SSAO tends to have a faint dark shadow around it. Most people do not know this and would not notice it even if they looked directly at it.
Or say for instance that FXAA tends to blur an image by a substantial amount when removing aliasing.
It is easy for me to discern these things because of my background and ongoing interest in graphics design. Minor details that most people do not notice are easy for me to spot.
That brings in another issue with this gen vs last gen. The actual visible difference in most games is really just in the light sources and physics. There are few overbearing huge leaps to show off. Take the MG5 comparison in the op. The difference in lighting is quite apparent though. I could explain it to you but it would be a very long explanation.
I don't think so. Bloom is easy to spot as it generally overpowers an image. It doesn't usually make things look more colorful, just extremely brightened.
The type of lighting would also have no bearing on the amount of light sources.
freezamite
Banned
There are a lot of reasons an engine can perform better or worse depending on the platform. Since the Xbox 360 is by design the more limited platform when it comes to a deferred engine, and also the "to go by" platform this past generation, I assume that SASRT was designed with that on mind and then ported over the other ones.
The PC version of SASRT will also be made upon a deferred rendering engine, but since I doubt they re-designed their assets in order to take advantage of that I doubt it looks much better than the Xbox 360 version except for the things that can be scaled directly by hardware (better framerate, stronger AA, higher resolution)...
Risk Breaker
Member
Dem colours popping.
Those colors would look the same without it. They just wouldn't be as bright. Bloom is literally just making things over bright.
http://www.tweakguides.com/images/NFSMW_10.jpg
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/15/14898/bloom7.jpg
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/_...e/images/f/fc/Bloom_lighting_house_portal.png
That still has no bearing on light sources. That is a completely different matter. Bloom is simply a type of lighting. When its used on everything. it makes everything look illuminated like in the picture you posted. Only certain objects look illuminated and other do not in the screenshots Freezamite posted. That is because they are using many different lighsources.
Bloom is clearly being used on some objects but only those specific objects where as in your picture is is global over everything.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
bbl gotta educate myself on graphics before I critique any game from here on out since I don't know what I like
Warm Machine
Member
Our game, Arcadecraft uses a deferred renderer. I don't understand what the OP is trying to say. Colour is an art style decision to add to the mood it isn't a function of the way things are drawn to screen..
freezamite
Banned
Yes, on a deferred shading engine, but with much less real time lights than Mario Kart and not at 60fps.
Dem colours popping.
The technique can be used on other past generation platforms, but not at this extent on Xbox 360 and I think that it wouldn't be possible either on PS3.
What I'm trying to say is that you can't pretend to judge a game graphical quality when in front of the images I posted, you call "colours" to the fuck-ton of real time lights that are present on the scene, and say this was the norm on Xbox 360/PS3 but only with a different art style. That's what I'm saying.Warm Machine said:
Warm Machine
Member
You do notice that each animal and the environment is using that damn expensive shell technique on it. How do I know it is expensive? We used in on the field in the game The Bigs.
60FPS and multiple light sources is not unique to the WiiU. It is simply directing your game toward achieving a particular result. If 60fps and lots of lights is your goal, don't make Skyrim or GTA, or Halo. Make something linear where you can control the number of visible assets at all time. Racing is perfect for 60fps because the worst case scenario, all the cars on the track near each other is predetermined. After that you can budget out with the remaining overhead for the environment around you.
That is correct. He wasn't saying otherwise.
I believe he is talking about how people incessantly try to write off anything great looking in Nintendo games as being purely because of art style rather than any technical capability on the hardware as means of downplaying the capabilities of the system the given game is on.
so basically you just gave this long winded response to dodge the questions and once again give no evidence....lol...typical...
so still there is ZERO evidence to support OP's claims that MK8's colors are the result of DR....
NO, thats been the whole point of this thread...is his insistence that MK8's colors are the direct result of its DR engine and its "massive" amount of light sources...
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I did answer your question, and I dodged nothing....
I told you that exact numbers you are looking for aren't obtainable, and that they no bearing on what was actually being asked. If you look at a room and it has a dozen objects the right side while their are hundred on the left, you do not need to know the exact numbers to know that the left has more.
freezamite
Banned
And even if that's the case, I'm not comparing MK8 with Viva Piñata on a technical level. I'm just saying that you won't see a single game on the Xbox 360 with the lighting that MK8 has, and believe me that if a console has racing games this console is the Xbox 360 precisely.
Yes, other effects also have an impact on the amount of lights you have, but I insist in that you won't see a game going as far as MK8 does in terms of lighting on the Xbox 360 because I've played nearly everything that's considered to be technically pushing on it and I've personally never seen it.
Does art style matter? Yes. Is the difference between MK8 and Mod Nations racers or even SASRT just a matter of art style? No, not at all.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Yeah that was weird of him to say.
no you didnt...i gave you a whole list of questions...you didnt answer a single one lol
and your actual proof of this is what? please...i IMPLORE you to actually give some details...can you tell us the max number of dynamic lighting sources are there in a given frame?...how about some character poly counts?
Warm Machine
Member
Sure. When I look at MK I can see one direct light with shadows for the characters and a SH shader of some kind complementing the characters as an ambient light. The environment is baked with lightmaps. However they have added in some point lights or spot lights on the vehicles as well. Much of what is computationally expensive being rendered is only on the characters which is exactly what you want to have happen. Most of everything in game visuals is trickery and little of it is brute force.
Warm Machine
Member
Only the direct light and it is only creating a shadow for the characters. The world isn't being rendered into the cascades but it does get effected by them. Same deal on Forza 4 and 5.
if you had to take a guess...what would you say the total number of lights you see are?? and how many dynamic?? just the one?
Color and real time lighting are two different things. If you want to talk about lighting do so, but you keep saying color which real time lighting as nothing to do with. When people talk about Nintendo's use of color they actually mean color, so you are arguing your definition of color vs. everyone else's version of color and it makes no sense.
The Wii U can't do anything that other consoles and the PC couldn't already do. You don't see games that look like Mario Kart 8 on other platforms because of artistic direction not because of deferred rendering. They are completely unrelated.
It's difficult to see in 3D World whats just bloom and whats an actual light source.
Mario Karts engine is far from advanced. 720p, no AA, no AF, baked shadows, low res textures, low poly environments. Exactly what you would expect of a 60fps racer on PS3/360.
Nintendo's art style just does a good job of looking impressive while using relatively meagre tech at 60fps. The bloom is very aesthetically appealing.
Mario Karts engine is far from advanced. 720p, no AA, no AF, baked shadows, low res textures, low poly environments. Exactly what you would expect of a 60fps racer on PS3/360.
Nintendo's art style just does a good job of looking impressive while using relatively meagre tech at 60fps. The bloom is very aesthetically appealing.
Risk Breaker
Member
You keep confusing highly saturated emissive shaders + bloom with quality "lightning" and DOZENS OF LIGHTS!!1. GT5/6 have arguably "better lighting" than MK8 at ~60FPS and/or higher resolution
It also has colours Warm Machine
Member
1 direct shadow caster for the sun for sure that only lights the characters.
Possibly a dozen point lights that come and go with low radius. It is hard to tell though from the videos. Even the under lights from the hover jets on the vehicles might be additive blended decal trickery. Certainly when vehicles collide you can see a point light flare up for 5-10 frames. Looks like there is a spot light on the front headlamp on certain vehicles. Depends on the falloff of that light too where lights far from the camera are effectively off and only engage near.
I don't think anyone can say besides Nintendo when it comes to the more subtle application.
This thread is crazy. So many specific terms being used so broadly and incorrectly by so many people. (Also a lot of other people in here are also very knowledgable, so I don't mean everyone).
OP, if you're starting a thread were you argue a point using very specific computer tech terms, you must first fully understand these terms, what they are used for, what kinds of way they affect the final output and what they don't affect.
If people that know more than you about the topic start correcting you, you should realize your error and correct your original post with an edit.
You are not talking about deferred rendering. You are talking about the look and feel of recent Nintendo games. What achieves this look is a number of factors, and I think the most important contributing factor to this look are the shaders themselves and post processing, not the lighting model.
To wrap it up:
You say clearly, even in caps in your post:
"No, it's not "the colour", it's THE LIGHT SOURCES!"
And no. It's not. It's a nice way of shading that can be achived in forward rendering, with few light sources. Image Based Lighting combined with high resolution AO (baked or not) would be a good way to achieve this look.
These days with high quality shaders and AO, clouds of points lights are very rarely used. Clouds of points lights also have banding issues in deferred rendering, a problem they don't exhibit in forward rendering.
OP, if you're starting a thread were you argue a point using very specific computer tech terms, you must first fully understand these terms, what they are used for, what kinds of way they affect the final output and what they don't affect.
If people that know more than you about the topic start correcting you, you should realize your error and correct your original post with an edit.
You are not talking about deferred rendering. You are talking about the look and feel of recent Nintendo games. What achieves this look is a number of factors, and I think the most important contributing factor to this look are the shaders themselves and post processing, not the lighting model.
To wrap it up:
You say clearly, even in caps in your post:
"No, it's not "the colour", it's THE LIGHT SOURCES!"
And no. It's not. It's a nice way of shading that can be achived in forward rendering, with few light sources. Image Based Lighting combined with high resolution AO (baked or not) would be a good way to achieve this look.
Points lights are always noticable as radial falloff of light, and rarely useful for anything except what they are meant for: Point lights.
These days with high quality shaders and AO, clouds of points lights are very rarely used. Clouds of points lights also have banding issues in deferred rendering, a problem they don't exhibit in forward rendering.
back in 2009 Guerilla game a presentation about KZ2...
if you honestly think MK8's lighting system (let alone entire renderer) is more complex than this...i just have no hope...
http://www.slideshare.net/guerrillagames/the-rendering-technology-of-killzone-2
100+ Dynamic Lights per frame (max of 350 from another source)
10+ shadow casting lights per frame
Full Screen Directional light to simulate sunlight
real time shadows (not just on characters)
now just for HAHA's...could you take a quick look at the presentation i linked to above..and just for my own sanity let me know which lighting method you find to be more...complex?...i guess thats the word im looking for...
if you honestly think MK8's lighting system (let alone entire renderer) is more complex than this...i just have no hope...
http://www.slideshare.net/guerrillagames/the-rendering-technology-of-killzone-2
100+ Dynamic Lights per frame (max of 350 from another source)
10+ shadow casting lights per frame
Full Screen Directional light to simulate sunlight
real time shadows (not just on characters)
now just for HAHA's...could you take a quick look at the presentation i linked to above..and just for my own sanity let me know which lighting method you find to be more...complex?...i guess thats the word im looking for...
freezamite
Banned
My proof on that? The fact that I've never seen an Xbox 360 game that goes that far in a deferred engine, coupled with the fact that Xbox 360 is limited to a part of its 22,8 GB/s of bandwidth to main RAM (22,8 GB/s minus time lost due to latencies minus any bandwidth necessary to perform anything else) in order to perform any deferred rendering technique, while the WiiU has all the eDram bandwidth (since its onDie and it's 1T-SRAM it's theoretical bandwidth is not affected by latencies) minus anything else that could be done there, which it's much less than what has to be done on the Xbox 360 case since it has an additional 12.8 GB/s big pool of memory, and other big caches (3MB on the GPU, 3MB on the CPU) to access it.
The difference in terms of available memory bandwidth for deferred shading techniques between the Xbox 360 and the WiiU is huge, proportionally speaking I don't doubt its bigger than the one between the WiiU and the PS4 or the Xbox One for example.
No, I don't think I'm confusing them.Risk Breaker said:You keep confusing highly saturated emissive shaders + bloom with quality "lightning" and DOZENS OF LIGHTS!!1. GT5/6 have arguably "better lighting" than MK8 at ~60FPS and/or higher resolution
On the first picture:
The female dinosaur is affected by the orange light of the turbo, at the same time it's also affected by the global light of the scenario (if you look at her self-shadowing, you'll see how the shadow on her hand is darker than the one in her head due to it not being lit by the other lights of the scenario).
I also see the dinosaur that goes with the blue crest on its head to be affected at least by a green light on the back on his motorcycle and also some front lights (maybe just the main global light, which tends to seem white from how each material not affected by a local light is being lit).
Specular materials would be all those neons out there, but I don't know if they also cast a light upon characters that pass near them.
That example of GT6 you put... I only see the lights casted by the car and the car itself only affected by one single global light (I could be wrong though, it's not easy to count multiple lights based on screenshots, but I don't see multiple lights affecting the car anywhere).
Apophis2036
Banned
I'd be interested to know what exactly a 'next gen' karting game would look like ?, say on PS4 apart from it being 1080p instead of 720p.
Feel free to imagine MK8 on PS4, what could be improved over the WiiU version, again apart from resolution ?.
I think it's also important to note that MK8 probably has a budget below $20 million. Iwata is on record as saying they will not hesitate to spend big on the likes of Zelda but I really can't see them blowing more on a Mario Kart game than they did on their most expensive game ever (Twilight Princess).
XANDER CAGE
Member
I'm not really super technical but deferred rendering has nothing to do with how bright and colorful something is, is it? Nintendo games have always been that bright. Deferred rendering might certainly be helping MK8 "pop" but it's not a radical new idea.
well...assuming you give them time to come to grips with the hardware and youre looking at maybe...
MK9 on the PS4?? with Nintendo's artists behind the wheel?? while it might be outclassed by future games like Ryse 2, or Killzone:SF2, or Uncharted 4 on a PURELY under the hood technical (objective) level...from an art direction + technical level...you might be looking at the best looking (pure subjective asthetics) game of the generation...
i imagine a game in native 1080p @ 60fps...i image character models exceeding the polygon counts of MK8...i expect higher texture resolutions and higher poly counts on the environment, along with bigger environments...i think the real upgrade would be in particle effects...
i think MK9 on the PS4 would be an absolute STUNNER...
Mysterious Stranger
Member
Nintendo games are so pretty!
The spite people have on all sides is quite amazing.
"You don't like what I like so I think you have no clue what you're talking about."
I love my Wii U but I love my PS4 and PC too. That doesn't mean people can't comment on a certain game or call out hyperbole when they see it which was quite often with Mario Kart. It looks good to me all things considered but is it a masterpiece? No. Does Titanfall need to be the best looking game ever? No. But am I still underwhelmed by it considering how often it's called next-gen? Yup!
I don't get why people take offense to OPINIONS. No need to put yourself on a pedestal for your opinion. It doesn't change anything for anyone else. Remember when people used to PLAY games instead of bicker over them?
"You don't like what I like so I think you have no clue what you're talking about."
I love my Wii U but I love my PS4 and PC too. That doesn't mean people can't comment on a certain game or call out hyperbole when they see it which was quite often with Mario Kart. It looks good to me all things considered but is it a masterpiece? No. Does Titanfall need to be the best looking game ever? No. But am I still underwhelmed by it considering how often it's called next-gen? Yup!
I don't get why people take offense to OPINIONS. No need to put yourself on a pedestal for your opinion. It doesn't change anything for anyone else. Remember when people used to PLAY games instead of bicker over them?
Apophis2036
Banned
GTA V is a great example of a fantastic looking game that would be improved immensely by a bump in resolution to 1080p with some decent AA. Image quality cripples that game.
*prays for PS4 version*
.Warm Machine
Member
By virtue of them lighting the environment and sourcing some realtime shadows from it it tells me KZ is doing more brute force rendering work. It is so situational though. It always comes down to what the goals of the product are.
Basically,Nintendo has not unlocked some special magical power hidden in the WiiU. They wanted 60fps and built around that. Really, the higher the framerate usually the more simple the implementation of graphics are because you want to have the machine grab the art, process it efficiently and draw it. The more crazy hoops, hurdles, tricks, and reprocessing the worse things get. It is cool that MK8 looks as good as it does at 60 but it is also cool that Call of Duty, for example, can have MP battles on a 360 at 60.
crazy monkey
Banned
I agree with everything in both. fuck skyward sword.
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