or just give them a hand-me-down.
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Nintendo's Iwata: "Our approach to targeting children has been inadequate"
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
or just give them a hand-me-down.
That is definitely my hope as well, and stuff like X and Bayo is steps in the right direction, but yeah, it takes time, and it will also be very expensive, especially considering they would probably have to fund quite a few bombs before they eventually broke out with a mainstream hit.
Kindle Fire is not an Android tablet proper, but it holds its own well in the tablet market.
Askherserenity
Member
Sad part is that they don't see that. That's what sells now. Build your games targeted at 18-25 year olds and the kids will come. In Japan...Monster Hunter I guess?
I think this whole thing where they have to cater to making "kids" games is a big problem. Parents have now moved on to just giving their kids they're old iPhone/iPad instead of spending 200 bucks + 40 bucks for every game.
Nintendo, start making games for the fucking people that actually buy them.
googleplex
Member
Why would a parent Not get a Nintendo branded tablets for their kid instead of a no named device? The Nintendo name would bring a ton of credibility to an gaming-kid friendly tablet. I don't think anyone other then Nintendo could pull off such a device.
edit: It could also be Android based like the Kindle Fire. My sister bought two of those for her daughters.
I think I've literally brought up this point in every Iwata thread there is.
Disney knows how it goes: You have to continually reinvest in new strategies and new IP for new generations of kids. Nintendo was phoning it in thinking their old catalogue was going to work for kids. Well, it isn't. Now we're here.
They had this same damn problem with the Game Boy in the late 90's. Sales were declining and newer generations who hadn't grown up with the NES were becoming distant from Nintendo. Nintendo bites on a risky new IP, Pokemon, and boom, they're the cream of the crop again.
The people that are whining about the fact that nintendo should only "make games for the people who buy them" are missing the point. If you want games to remain a relevant medium, you have to make sure future generations are on the same page. The number of 20 year olds that grew upplaying Nintendo games and still play them is shrinking, that number isn't going to get any bigger any time soon.
It doesn't mean you have to abandon other markets. Not at all. But if you're losing out in your core demographic since your inception, then you're in trouble.
Disney knows how it goes: You have to continually reinvest in new strategies and new IP for new generations of kids. Nintendo was phoning it in thinking their old catalogue was going to work for kids. Well, it isn't. Now we're here.
They had this same damn problem with the Game Boy in the late 90's. Sales were declining and newer generations who hadn't grown up with the NES were becoming distant from Nintendo. Nintendo bites on a risky new IP, Pokemon, and boom, they're the cream of the crop again.
The people that are whining about the fact that nintendo should only "make games for the people who buy them" are missing the point. If you want games to remain a relevant medium, you have to make sure future generations are on the same page. The number of 20 year olds that grew upplaying Nintendo games and still play them is shrinking, that number isn't going to get any bigger any time soon.
It doesn't mean you have to abandon other markets. Not at all. But if you're losing out in your core demographic since your inception, then you're in trouble.
evilromero
Member
If Nintendo can make a game as fun and imaginative as Minecraft, I'm all for it.
Children these days are evidently in to tablets and smartphones. If they really want those audience, they're gonna have to make games for those devices(gasp), or at least make their own competent device for their games. There's no way they'll do any of that, though.
Maybe their best option would be to put some kind of demo on those devices to bait the kids into making their moms buy their console/handheld for the full game
Maybe their best option would be to put some kind of demo on those devices to bait the kids into making their moms buy their console/handheld for the full game
LizardKing
Member
I both agree and disagree if that makes any sense. In almost every game they make they are attempting to target everyone, both kids and adults. They make aesthetics that appeal to children, with gameplay that appeals to kids and adults. Just look at 3D world, adults will say the first half is too easy, children will say the second half is too hard, thus making a game that appeals to everyone and no one all at once (unless you are already a Nintendo fan). The same family friendly aesthetic, part easy part hard gameplay is part of their formula for nearly every game they make nowadays. So they aren't really "targeting" anyone at all.
The only problem with this is that I really don't think there is any demographic Nintendo can compete for WITHOUT having to evolve and drastically alter to their management.
I mean, they're flopping with every demographic right now, and not just "flopping" in the sense that somebody out there is performing better. No, they're flopping harder than Britney Spears' last album, and they're doing it all on their own. So if Nintendo shouldn't put effort into appealing to older gamers with more mature games because they failed in the past (for whatever reason) and don't want to change their management, then that leaves them pretty much in the cold with everyone (kids and adults alike). Because their current way of doing things is sending them on a one-way trip to Irrelevant Town just south of HEWsville.
Nintendo's going to have to drastically change the way they do things and overhaul their management no matter who they decide to appeal to, because no demographic is coming to them of their own free will at this point.
Which leads me to my main suspicion with Iwata's words today: I don't think he wants to change. Iwata is increasingly isolated and increasingly ignorant of gaming today, gaming culture today, and what people really want out of machines they're expected to shell out hundreds of dollars for. And he's too pig-headed to admit it. I think Iwata's words today are nothing more than a massive cop-out. I see him forcing Nintendo as a whole to more blatantly retreat to children because that's the demographic where he feels Nintendo will be able to have the most pull without having to change a single thing about how they currently operate. Only thing is, the children demo has done no less evolving of its own. So if Iwata thinks he'll be able to rope that audience by doing the same things Nintendo has been doing (but more focused on that demo), I think he's going to find himself in the same position he's been in for the last 5 years: dead-ass wrong.
I'm just imagining this referring to the "Gamer Dudes" and laughing on the inside
I just dont see the market for dedicated handhelds staying much longer. The sw sales on the 3DS are already dreadfull, and that is now when the game has an amazing lineup. This market is shrinking, and its happening fast.
To be perfectly honest, I think Nintendo is in such a bad spot that they would struggle with their own mobile device or a new console on the level of the PS4 or Xbox One. They are looking at an uphill battle from the outside looking in on either front, considering the competition. They just don't have the brand power in the hardware space anymore.
Yagami_Sama
Member
I enjoyed my Wii and still playing some game on in it, but I hope that he is not intending to turn the Wii U a Wii. I mean there so much garbage for Wii, like the fitness stuff and other "wii stuff". People interested in this kind of game could buy Xbox 1 and enjoy this kind of game with Kinect.
When Nintendo announced the Wii U I thought that the good times of N64 and Game Cube would be back and maybe some third parties would support the console, after square-enix announced FF XV and KH3 and the KH collection would skip Wii U, I though that it would be Game Cube all over again, which is not a bad thing. Because Nintendo did a good job making great games for Game Cube and so far they are failing and providing a similar support on Wii U.
I do believe that they need to focus first in their fans, the ones that are supporting the company since quite a long time, and I included in this group.
When Nintendo announced the Wii U I thought that the good times of N64 and Game Cube would be back and maybe some third parties would support the console, after square-enix announced FF XV and KH3 and the KH collection would skip Wii U, I though that it would be Game Cube all over again, which is not a bad thing. Because Nintendo did a good job making great games for Game Cube and so far they are failing and providing a similar support on Wii U.
I do believe that they need to focus first in their fans, the ones that are supporting the company since quite a long time, and I included in this group.
SolarPowered
Member
I'm assuming that far into this future Nintendo will make some sort of console hardware that people actually want to buy. That was why Knack did well. It was the PS4 doing the legwork. N64 sold 20 million consoles in the US alone. What would have happened had Nintendo made a couple million Goldeneye or Conker bundles? The sales for those games naturally would've increased.
Hardware and Software are like Yin and Yang. Nintendo is all out of balance under Iwata. I would hope that he figures this out instead of resigning.
And still features less crying than Other M.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Dear Iwata,
Sincerly, Everyone
They want to appeal to kids, not creepy lolicon types.
Sincerly, Everyone
They want to appeal to kids, not creepy lolicon types.
mario_O
Member
I think the WiiU was hybrid trying that approach, so maybe a nintendo "real tablet" wont work either. Android tablets can do so much more than just gaming, and can be used by all the family. Also, they can't compete with the current prices of their games.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Because they would be competing with £50 toy tablets like the LeapPad 2 and InnoTab 3, which are fine for the very young, and £70 android tablets that are almost cheap enough to give to younger kids too.
Then you have the dealing with the "may as well give them my old tablet/phone for nothing" issue, the pace of the tech market is fast enough that these devices, outside of Apples offering, have no worthwhile resale value and are happily giving them to their kids, that's how my 5 year old got an Ipad (1st gen) this christmas. her eyes when she got it were a picture, not just because she got a tablet, but because she got my tablet, which she was begging to use almost daily for about 6 months.
Nintendo's pull with the younger market has evaporated, not lessened, not weakened, but gone, people don't want to believe this, but it's true.
This reminds me of something Shuhei Yoshida said in November. Quoting from the original thread:
He's exactly right. And in this case, so is Iwata. From the N64 on, Nintendo's consoles have never thrived on the basis of appealing to the core market. It's really amazing to me how many people seem to believe Nintendo should be trying to maximize their slice of the pie that Sony and Microsoft also happen to be going for, as if there's any evidence that would be a good thing for either Nintendo or even the gaming industry at large. When people read, "Our approach to targeting children has been inadequate," they seem to see, "What, how is not focusing on me a good strategy?"
The Wii U suffers from having too much parity with the 360/PS3, not from having too little in common with the X1/PS4. Seriously, this can't be emphasized enough: the Wii U does nothing to particularly distinguish itself from the console competition, and contrary to what everyone seems to believe, it's suffering from the fact that so much was invested into fighting for the same people as Sony and Microsoft. Mobile ate into the Wii U's potential market, but so did the 360/PS3, and the X1/PS4 took much of the wind from the Wii U's sails as well. In terms of conception, it turns of pricing, in terms of marketing, it didn't target anyone particularly well.
So I see no reason Iwata's statement should be controversial. With a year or so left until the PS4 and X1 would make an appearance, Nintendo bet people would go for $300+ console that was competitive in the same arena as those company's respective products, that the GamePad was a compelling enough feature to properly distinguish it, and that the Nintendo brand would help carry the day. It's exactly the product that shouldn't have been released in the environment it released in. Appealing to kids means appealing to families, picking up the kind of people neither Sony or Microsoft typically would be able to, and generally tapping into a much bigger market. The fact that Nintendo failed in this area is much more important than the fact that Nintendo failed to win the core market.
Shu has 2 Wii U's. Enjoys playing them with his daughters. "Nintendo make pretty fun family friendly games"
"Success depends on how you set your goal. I don't know what Nintendo's goal with the WII U was. " Shu found it confusing that Nintendo seems to have not focused the Wii U to induct non-players [make players] like with a lot of their past consoles. Console is good but message of "for core gamers" was confusing. This year Nintendo have improved their messaging and gotten back on message.
Do you [Shu] think ipads/tablets are hurting Nintendo? I think if you look at how Nintendo and Apple induct non-players into gaming, nintendo and apple are pretty much in the same group. Playstation doesn't necessarily fit into that group. We [Sony] need nintendo to be very successful in inducting new players who like to play games with controllers because we [sony] believe games with non-touch only controllers are great.
He's exactly right. And in this case, so is Iwata. From the N64 on, Nintendo's consoles have never thrived on the basis of appealing to the core market. It's really amazing to me how many people seem to believe Nintendo should be trying to maximize their slice of the pie that Sony and Microsoft also happen to be going for, as if there's any evidence that would be a good thing for either Nintendo or even the gaming industry at large. When people read, "Our approach to targeting children has been inadequate," they seem to see, "What, how is not focusing on me a good strategy?"
The Wii U suffers from having too much parity with the 360/PS3, not from having too little in common with the X1/PS4. Seriously, this can't be emphasized enough: the Wii U does nothing to particularly distinguish itself from the console competition, and contrary to what everyone seems to believe, it's suffering from the fact that so much was invested into fighting for the same people as Sony and Microsoft. Mobile ate into the Wii U's potential market, but so did the 360/PS3, and the X1/PS4 took much of the wind from the Wii U's sails as well. In terms of conception, it turns of pricing, in terms of marketing, it didn't target anyone particularly well.
So I see no reason Iwata's statement should be controversial. With a year or so left until the PS4 and X1 would make an appearance, Nintendo bet people would go for $300+ console that was competitive in the same arena as those company's respective products, that the GamePad was a compelling enough feature to properly distinguish it, and that the Nintendo brand would help carry the day. It's exactly the product that shouldn't have been released in the environment it released in. Appealing to kids means appealing to families, picking up the kind of people neither Sony or Microsoft typically would be able to, and generally tapping into a much bigger market. The fact that Nintendo failed in this area is much more important than the fact that Nintendo failed to win the core market.
This post is correct. Pokemon is the first game I remember that talked down to me as a player... probably to make it simpler to today's dumber children. Nintendo hasn't made a "new" IP in a long long time. Their last new IP that was truly innovative was Wii Fit and Wii Sport.
boyshine
Member
This is hardly no-name:
And the Kurio name is becoming stronger all the time as well:
SolarPowered
Member
Gotta break some eggs to make an omelette.
I so hope you are right and that they will see it worthwhile to release another console, but I am not so sure. The Wii U, admitedly, was terrible in its execution and probably also its idea, but there is no way it will be enough to just make a powerful Nintendo Playbox to get people and thirdpartys on board. So they need a ton of firstparty software, also in genres they dont make, which is expensive and takes time. I dont know, but my feeling is that mobile, unfortunately, is edging closer
This will never happen though. There is just no money to be made here
Read my following post. I was thinking of a best case scenario with that statement. I can't really see it, either.
Amen. The portability aspect has always been a load of crap anywhere outside of Japan in the first place.
Nintendo can do one of three things
1. Offer an actual tablet running Android and figure some way of selling their games exclusively on their hardware
2. Offer an extremely mature adult product which younger audiences would be attracted to (Hey look at what my older bro has, I want one!)
3. Get out of hardware
They are god awful at trying to offer mature product and have Sony and MS to compete with. They haven't tried #1.
I believe they have one more chance at some successful handheld using their traditional model. But its just a stay of execution.
1. Offer an actual tablet running Android and figure some way of selling their games exclusively on their hardware
2. Offer an extremely mature adult product which younger audiences would be attracted to (Hey look at what my older bro has, I want one!)
3. Get out of hardware
They are god awful at trying to offer mature product and have Sony and MS to compete with. They haven't tried #1.
I believe they have one more chance at some successful handheld using their traditional model. But its just a stay of execution.
Baleoce
Member
Iwatas on stage now apparently. https://twitter.com/gibbogame is live tweeting.
And I agree with your following post unfortunately.
This is a poor mindset, in my opinion. I don't believe that mobile/tablet is taking away from Nintendo's audience and here is why:
The Wii U is doing horribly because of mistakes on the part of Nintendo - not because it's losing marketshare to mobile. As a matter of fact, if you look at the trend of sales of Nintendo home consoles excluding the Wii - the Wii U's sales are to be expected.
62 mil for NES
49 mil for SNES
32.9 mil for N64
22 mil for Gamecube
100 mil for Wii
(I'm guessing) 18 mil for Wii U...
There's no reason why the Wii should've sold 100 mil consoles. All logic pointed to it selling sub 20 mil and yet it is a stand out. The Wii U, however is line with the decline of sales that Nintendo home consoles have had since the NES. I don't think many would argue that the SNES, N64, or Gamecube had marketshare stolen from them by the growing mobile market at the time.
Nikodemos
Member
That impression only exists because the Wii U's differentiator, the pseudo-tablet controller, failed to make any inroads.
Yet people on this very forum have defended the whole "chance encounter challenge" close-range pseudo-multiplayer concept (terribly archaic in my view).
Exactly, another example of Nintendo's insulated Japanese-centric thinking.
Nintendo doesn't have Amazon's infrastructure. All Nintendo can offer is games while the Kindle Fire can offer a video/music store/App Store that uses Android.
There are some psychics here on GAF. If he really means that smartphones and tablets have taken their kids market.....many here have called it. I nver really believed that but damn....if thats what he feels.....
And as much as some dont want it....maybe mobile is the way to go. At least make some mobile games, be more involved in the mobile market.
I mentioned Sony before....they have a mobile games section on the Vita. That includes the Vita and their smartphones. I doesn't necessarily mean Mario 3D World, Land would have to be on phones...but start making some mobile type games. And I wouldnt totally dismiss mobile games. There are some nice ones out there. They all dont look and play like they were made in a day.
A side scrolling game starring Mario could be where its constantly scrolling and all you have to handle is jumping, shooting fireballs, etc. Some of the FPS seem to have many playing it...so controls arent always gonna be bad.
It would be very ironic if they did this....cuz this is Sega's plan now.
And as much as some dont want it....maybe mobile is the way to go. At least make some mobile games, be more involved in the mobile market.
I mentioned Sony before....they have a mobile games section on the Vita. That includes the Vita and their smartphones. I doesn't necessarily mean Mario 3D World, Land would have to be on phones...but start making some mobile type games. And I wouldnt totally dismiss mobile games. There are some nice ones out there. They all dont look and play like they were made in a day.
A side scrolling game starring Mario could be where its constantly scrolling and all you have to handle is jumping, shooting fireballs, etc. Some of the FPS seem to have many playing it...so controls arent always gonna be bad.
It would be very ironic if they did this....cuz this is Sega's plan now.
How so? I definitely feel like Nintendo is aiming their games at children from a difficulty standpoint. As someone who played Nintendo games as a child, games like Mario Galaxy and 3D World are just too easy for me. I played the new Mario & Luigi game, and the frequency of tutorials for the most obvious gameplay mechanics made me want to scream.
This is reminding me of Iwata's GDC '11 keynote and his tirade against mobile games:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...ata_On_Design_Lessons_Social_Mobile_Risks.php
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...ata_On_Design_Lessons_Social_Mobile_Risks.php
*trembles in fear of a Nintendo (or just Pokemon) Skylanders*
balgajo
Member
Exactly this. They fail to understand that most of children nowadays wants mature games, and and there is a good amount of parents that don't care too much about parental control stuff.
And it failed to do so in part because it does a horrible job differentiating the console! The GamePad is a solid device, but it does/has done little to make experiences more compelling. The press releases surrounding the Wii U pre-release had this distinct feel of being from 2006, and the GamePad did little to change that feeling.
The Wii U and the post-Wii U release schedule have, in some ways, been much too conservative.
ioriyagami
Member
Saw these gems on that jin115 board:
What do they say?
Not an expert Japanese reader, but if I'm not mistaken the first one just says "Approach to kidssssss!" and displays a naked Iwata...I think the meaning is obvious
It seems that for some reason people in those forums think that Nintendo fans ("Ninton" or just "ton" 豚 like here) never buy shit ...m'kay
EDIT: I think a better translation for the second is actually:
"The non-buying Nintendo fan is just a pig"
Gentleman Jack
Member
Saw these gems on that jin115 board:
What do they say?
On his forehead it says '妊娠' aka 'pregnancy.'
And yeah he's saying 'our approach to kidsssss' while the young'un runs for it.