Alebrije
Member
The WiiUs,
-Miyamoto San, is this really the last of us ?
-No, is our final fantasy.
-
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Nintendo's new platform codename: "Project NX"
- Thread starter Lupin the Third
- Start date
- Status
The WiiUs,
-Miyamoto San, is this really the last of us ?
-No, is our final fantasy.
The Wii kNew U
Yep. I scanned over it and saw some things that might be notable; might as well post them here as well.
The patent also mentions several examples how how these wheels can be used:
The last one seems kind of interesting. If I'm reading it right, then it sounds like the wheels can start spinning out of your control if something happens in game. I'm getting Psycho Mantis flashbacks.
Jesus.
If Nintendo wanted to develop as a software developer why would they go to a dying market like consoles? They'd go to actual growing markets (like they already have). You know, mobile, PC, Facebook.
This insane idea that they'd end up doing fanciful on sony platforms as some kinda darling thanks to negotiations is honestly wishful thinking. I don't see Sony pushing family oriented titles as more than a token effort either. You'd be more likely to see them create their own version of uplay, where you'd find such amazing titles as Mario, Pokemon, animal crossing, mario and Mario.
Wii Hardly NEW Yii
James Scott
Banned
That sounds like it could be cool. Hope it feels good to use as well.
Father_Brain
Banned
...well, yes, if I'm wrong and NX proves successful, they have no reason to consider exiting the hardware business. But that pretty much goes without saying.
On the other hand, if NX fails, the odds that their next hardware would do any better are vanishingly small and I can't see them sticking around.
Because the market forces that, IMO, make hardware non-viable for them - namely, being squeezed out by mobile on the low end and PS4/XB1 on the high end - are too fundamental for their main remaining assets, Nintendo IP and software, to overcome.
To their credit, it sounds like Nintendo is making some smart decisions with the hardware, but y'know... too little, too late.
Agree with all of this. The second point is what makes the NX so fascinating to me. Is there a traditional handheld or console hardware configuration that could succeed in this market? And if so, what the hell does it look like? And does Nintendo have any chance of finding it? And if so, can it be sold at a profitable price?
It just seems like a real long-shot to me, and I have no idea what Nintendo might be thinking the right direction is.
I still believe that the relative success of the 3DS means that a handheld done right could be a success if backed by Nintendo software at cheaper prices than they are currently. But even that - something I would have taken as a rock-solid truth a decade ago - is something I'm not sure about anymore. As for the home console, I genuinely can't see Nintendo succeeding there ever again. I don't see the blue ocean.
Lastly, I'll say what I'll always say about Nintendo if they ditch their own hardware: comparisons to Sega are absurd; they'd take their massive fanbase to wherever their software ends up; and it would be hard for them to become more sequel / IP dependent than they are right now anyway.
Pokemaniac
Member
It's clearly been a while since you last took a close look at Nintendo's lineup. There are quite a few obvious things which would almost definitely get the axe.
Fourth Storm
Member
In regards to a hardware configuration, Nintendo will likely be looking to their two biggest successes, the Wii and the NES. Both of the systems had a variety of novel control mechanisms, some of which came bundled and some of which didn't. I don't think Nintendo is just going to codify a unified control standard just because they are aiming to create an integrated platform. NX could just as soon be an updated grab bag of Nintendo's previous experiments. Sure you would need to choose one or two control mechanisms to bundle with the hardware, but that's never stopped them from introducing new peripherals after launch. It's one of the major benefits of them staying in hardware.
Father_Brain
Banned
We'll see next year, but I don't envision NX emphasizing input/display gimmicks to nearly the extent of previous platforms. I can't think of a lot of possibilities that wouldn't get in the way of unifying the console and handheld ecosystems, add significantly to manufacturing costs, or both.
Also, aside from perhaps the Wii Balance Board, I can't think of a single non-bundled peripheral that's been particularly successful.
PdotMichael
Banned
Moving to different business fields is not an act of desperation but can be a smart business decision. Nintendo did it all the time until the NES.
Right now, Nintendo has still the QOL concept in developement which moves outside of the traditional hardware/software bundle.
Was this sarcasm?
I have been a Nintendo fan since I was a kid, and keep up on their news every day. I keep a very close eye on their lineup. I don't agree that certain franchises would automatically get the axe, and I don't understand the argument at all. I do think that one or two franchises might be left behind in the transition, but others (like Metroid) could return. It would be a give and take.
My core point is that Nintendo takes their fans with them and as such they'd be selling to largely the same market on a 3rd party machine at the very least. Those 3-5m or so hardcore who buy a bunch or most of the first party Wii U games whenever they release. Who paid a premium to get a Wii U despite it having no 3rd party games at all. Because that entry fee is worth it for the Nintendo diehards. The Smash Bros crowd. That crowd isn't abandoning them if they go 3rd party. All they'd be doing is expanding their audience, which isn't actually a recipe for reducing software diversity at all.
Well, they love their control methods and their peripherals all right, but I'm dearly hoping they don't go down this route again. Their peripherals, in particular, are almost always failures. Nintendo's greatest selling point is their software and its quality. Making the barrier of entry (see: price and cultural image) as small as possible to get at that software is essential. Any innovation that increases price must be clearly justified by an epic 'wow factor' that the Wii had and that VR apparently has.
Again, in this world of motion controls, kinect, and touch-screens all being 'old hat' I can't imagine what that 'wow-factor' control scheme would be, which is what makes all this so interesting.
Graphics Horse
Member
Same. I can see a console controller having something similar to the ps4's clickable pad, that would be good enough for anything like Mario Maker really.
I've been around a long time, and have seen countless doom and gloom predictions over the years. But releasing a second console during the same mainstream cycle, around the time Sony and MS are hitting their primes? And while more than likely not being competitive on both specs and online due to cost / failure to develop a solid online base the last 10 years?
I think they will be lucky to sell Wii U numbers. Very lucky actually, because outside of places like this, making the Wii U a legacy platform this soon is going to leave many Wii U owners feeling burned.
I think they will be lucky to sell Wii U numbers. Very lucky actually, because outside of places like this, making the Wii U a legacy platform this soon is going to leave many Wii U owners feeling burned.
PdotMichael
Banned
I didn't really get his point.
Nintendo shouldn't leave the console hardware market because the console hardware market is dying, okay.
James Scott
Banned
They're still putting out content, don't think consumers will be too displeased
This was probably happening regardless.
I assumed so. Referring to Facebook games as a growth area was the red flag.
dickroach
Member
so each game developed for the platform would either work on one or two screens? or the handheld would just mirror the tv?
Nintendo should avoid using the letters W and i in their next console name. Get as far away from that shit was possible.
_/¯
Pokemaniac
Member
Going third party isn't simply moving to a different business field, it is giving up a huge amount of control over their destiny. I'll admit that I'm no business person, but giving up control over your future generally doesn't sound like the best business strategy to me.
Right now, Nintendo funds a lot of fairly risky projects (for example Bayonetta 2, The Wonderful 101, Devil's Third, Codename S.T.E.A.M., Tomodachi LIfe, etc.), some of which have little to no hope of ever making back their cost. When they're a first party, they have a justification to make them, since it increases the diversity of their platform. As a third party, that justification simply doesn't exist. For similar reasons, I'd also expect much less localizing/publishing titles from third parties in certain regions (Bravely Default, Yokai Watch, Rayman Legends, etc.).
Nintendo's catalog today is a lot more risky than a lot of people give it credit for. It would definitely get a lot safer if they went third party.
PdotMichael
Banned
This is a prime example for a costbenefit analysis.
Does selling own hardware and selling software only for increase or decrease your profit?
madstarr12
Member
Yep, Nintendo's on a roll with that innovation.
It's not like the hardware discussion is much less ill-informed. We barely know anything about what the NX.
It's a fairly meaningful discussion to have given the companies current situation.
With regards to the "risky" project list. Admittedly Nintendo may be less inclined to collaborate or publish other studio's games, but there's really no way of knowing. If it's the worst case scenario then we may lose 2-3 legitimately good games by them going third party. Otherwise they've already cut their IPs down a lot, so the difference would be minimal. On the flip side, not having to figure out what software they need to push hardware or a specific hardware feature, may make them more open to publishing and developing the "risky" projects to be a premiere publisher.
As for localizations, keep in mind that the discussion is based around Nintendo failing to gain ground in hardware. If their numbers continue to slid, are 3rd parties in Japan going to bother making those games for their system to begin with? We are now seeing that many devs are content to create low budget games for PS4/Vita rather than new 3DS games. Many of which are being localized. Comparatively the risk of localization is less when the game is not stuck to one Nintendo platform.
OrbitalBeard
Member
They seem awesome. I'm really hoping they go through with them and they're a part of NX.
Hopefully it'll click on the first try.
I think that you have two kinds of Wii U owners.
The first are casuals who picked it up for parties or their kids, and who aren't 'in the loop' enough to feel burned.
The second are your die-hard Nintendo fans, and as far as I can tell, the Wii U has really, really strong approval ratings with them. (It certainly does with me.) We've gotten tons of great games for the thing already, and I don't think the fans will feel 'burned' at all. Especially those who have a general idea that the thing sold poorly and ended up having to be put down a bit early.
I certainly accept your point about funding 3rd parties. For sure. Of course, in an ideal world Nintendo would actually have 3rd party support by default and thus wouldn't be funding those games anyway. As for stuff like Codename Steam, I think you'd still see Nintendo experiment with smaller titles like that. Why? Because it's a breeding ground for new ideas and new IP. Codename Steam may have failed, but something like Animal Crossing for the N64/Cube was a total experiment that ended up (slowly, and over the course of a decade) being one of their biggest IPs. They wouldn't stop trying to create those; those projects aren't just about 'diversity'. Frankly I don't believe Nintendo ever greenlights anything they don't think will sell and turn a profit. Sometime their gambles just don't come off, that's all.
To turn back on topic, what will be interesting is if the two systems they're supposedly making DO share a software library... what will the effect be on their output? Will they increase the amount of games they make that aren't AAA IP (seeing as they won't be needing to make TWO mario karts, TWO zeldas etc), or will they just add development resources to those bigger games or even downsize a bit?
A single 'platform' would mean really interesting things in terms of what it might free up Nintendo to be able to do.
Irrelevant. This is a thread about NX hardware, if people want to make up their wildest dreams based on loose rumors, then this is the thread for it.
Discussing third party Nintendo by what is largely armchair analysis from people with seemingly no grasp of how Nintendo is structured (and now exceptionally so after the restructuring), is meaningless and well beyond the realm of relevant to the thread.
BronzeWolf
Banned
If hardware discussion is ill-informed, Nintendo 3rd party is even more so, given that NX will have 3 to 4 years at least. If you want to talk Nintendo 3rd party you can open a thread about it. The "companies current situation" is that they will release a piece or pieces of hardware very soon, and anything more than that is useless speculation.
Nintendo has restructured themselves so that Software and Hardware talent work even more together than before. If anything Nintendo 3rd party is further away with the current structure.
There is a healthy discussion about this in the Media Create threads, but what you are seeing is the consequences of a rotting console market in Japan. No Sony handheld means that Nintendo NX Handheld will be the sole owner of the biggest dedicated market in Japan, in the mean time, JDevs have to pay bills, so PSV/PS4 it is.
Father_Brain
Banned
Since you don't want us to discuss the potential consequences of NX failing at market, does that mean you want to declare any discussion of its sales potential verboten?
I'm sorry it bothers you so much, but unless the topic is being brought up in a trollish port-begging way, I don't see why it should be off-limits in a general NX discussion thread.
That's not speculation or conjecture, it's fact.
That's still a market that has large casual gamer sell-through, and one companies want to continue to exploit. Mobile is clearly the biggest growth driver, and PC is also growing.
You can't possibly believe that.
People talk a lot about the mobile marketing eating away at Nintendo's unique business (compared to any direct overlap they might have with Sony and MS), but i think there's a vast swathe of the industry that's basically going to lie fallow when you take Nintendo out of the picture. Who really bothers with local multiplayer any more? Where are the high quality family games? Where's the stuff for people who don't want to shoot, slash, stab, or blow things up?
The latter is the only part where mobile is a distinct threat, but again, there's a question of quality and investment. Casual gamers are not stupid, nor are they a monolithic block, and there are many that hunger for something deeper than King Software's offerings yet aren't going to be on board for Mass Effect 4.
Nintendo's got a virtual monopoly on a certain slice of the market, they just have to make sure they don't fail on price or accessibility to get there. That was where Wii U, and to a lesser extent, 3DS, fell short.
Which isn't to say they're going back to Wii/DS numbers either, but they could have large, vibrant bases for both SKUs of the NX.
The latter is the only part where mobile is a distinct threat, but again, there's a question of quality and investment. Casual gamers are not stupid, nor are they a monolithic block, and there are many that hunger for something deeper than King Software's offerings yet aren't going to be on board for Mass Effect 4.
Nintendo's got a virtual monopoly on a certain slice of the market, they just have to make sure they don't fail on price or accessibility to get there. That was where Wii U, and to a lesser extent, 3DS, fell short.
Which isn't to say they're going back to Wii/DS numbers either, but they could have large, vibrant bases for both SKUs of the NX.
Pokemaniac
Member
For the effects of the shared library, I suspect that, while some games will probably get a bit bigger, the main thing that we'll see is a bit more variety in what gets made. I think Splatoon and Smash Bros are something of a preview of what we will see going forward.
Do you not see why people might not appreciate discussion about Nintendo going third party in a thread about their upcoming hardware? That is really the issue here.
James Scott
Banned
I hope we start seeing some cross media projects announced soon. Amusement parks and stuff like their mobile game ventures will help increase their audience but I think they should try and capitalize on movies and TV.
I think that if they could do this they can regain their footing in the hardware market. Their IPs are still beloved by many after all these years but they need to get them in front of a larger audience. If people see the movies, try the mobile games, and buy the merchandise and grow to like these characters they might be more willing to try bite on new hardware or at least to keep fans hooked on for longer. A lot of their IPs go dormant for too long making them lose their impact. That's why stuff like AC and CoD are annualized.
If NX can truly help them increase their output overall and they branch out with projects like QoL, mobile, and licensing they can get back on track to making Nintendo like profits and establishing their longitivity. It will also allow them to have less profitable projects and not be in such a rough spot like with the Wii U. Revenues in these branches can also help fund more games and make them revenue to invest in their marketing efforts which have been sorely lacking this gem. These are things I think they need to do next gen, stuff I'm hoping they've been looking into at the very least.
I think that if they could do this they can regain their footing in the hardware market. Their IPs are still beloved by many after all these years but they need to get them in front of a larger audience. If people see the movies, try the mobile games, and buy the merchandise and grow to like these characters they might be more willing to try bite on new hardware or at least to keep fans hooked on for longer. A lot of their IPs go dormant for too long making them lose their impact. That's why stuff like AC and CoD are annualized.
If NX can truly help them increase their output overall and they branch out with projects like QoL, mobile, and licensing they can get back on track to making Nintendo like profits and establishing their longitivity. It will also allow them to have less profitable projects and not be in such a rough spot like with the Wii U. Revenues in these branches can also help fund more games and make them revenue to invest in their marketing efforts which have been sorely lacking this gem. These are things I think they need to do next gen, stuff I'm hoping they've been looking into at the very least.
I really disagree with the cross-media stuff in a lot of ways. I think it's treating the symptoms rather than the cause.
What Nintendo needs to do is what they used to do - get amazing games into the hands of consumers. This is why their IP grew to be what it is. Now they can't do that because the consumers they want (kids 'n' casuals) are all on mobile and tablet and won't buy their console. Thus their IP is fading from people's minds. So what's the answer?
a) Make a bunch of quite probably terrible movies / TV and a theme park only a tiny percentage of people will ever visit in order to jog the public's memory regarding these IPs, and then hope that that association leads to software / hardware sales, or
b) Make amazing games and put them where their consumers are, and restore the IP through the quality of the content and mass-reach combined with mass-appeal.
The answer to me is obvious. Happily, Nintendo has realised this to at least some extent as they're going mobile. I mean, there was Angry Birds merch everywhere and a theme park and all that, but that was all because of the fact that everyone knew Angry Birds from their phone, that the game itself became a cultural phenomenon. Nintendo can do that, and since their IP is 'classic' and 'nostalgia-backed' they have a massive leg up over everyone else.
I personally think that making cross-media stuff while the real meat of the IP lingers out of sight of the mass market can only hurt said IP. It's really not Nintendo's strength, either. How many of these games are known for being interesting narratively? Almost none. If you make a bad Zelda movie - that hurts the IP. If you make a good Zelda movie with an epic story - well, that's not what Zelda is really like, is it? That's what I mean by not Nintendo's strength. An Uncharted movie + game, on the other hand - that I could understand. Nintendo? Doesn't seem to fit.
The one thing Nintendo might be able to use to drive people back to their consoles is amazing mobile games. That's advertising that does apply to the strength of the IP (it's a game - good gameplay) and then you can say 'If you want our best stuff, you need to buy our console. Most people will say 'nah, happy with the phone, thanks', but you might get some people who are inclined to actually play games on TV screens in their free time back that way.
M1ch04c4n0
Banned
This threat when to "I need Mario in a real console! Nintendo, stop being stoopid!!!" too fast.
And yet, we know nothing....
2017 is too far.
And yet, we know nothing....
2017 is too far.
James Scott
Banned
I did mention that mobile will help but I think movies could too. Bad movies wouldn't, of course, but I'm assuming they'd try and make them good. Franchises like Pokemon and Yokai watch show the benefits of cross media promotion combined with a strong product
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