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[Kai Dracon]

Ignoring NOE statements, as they don't really mean anything, I think it is closer to the truth to say that Nintendo is the Man of Many Suits: they've always been better than most companies at presenting a unified face to the public that supports the official party line of the moment. Even if they change suits twice a day. Whatever the marketing numbers tell Nintendo, becomes the word of god. They do know how to make money, unlike some companies :lol

Thing is, right now the so-called "casual" market is what Nintendo is selling itself to, so every bit of their public image is focused on presenting the appearance that they're totally grooving on what soccer moms and need and how they think. As far as the public is concerned, for the moment every prior demographic Nintendo has focused on is now a "niche" that "we just take care of out of politeness, because they showed up as well to the party".

In a certain sense I suppose this is insulting to everybody who the Wii Fit marketing campaign is not directly aimed at, but, it's not unexpected. It's Nintendo.

However, behind the poker face, they traditionally tend to keep close track of how the bread is really buttered. They're not really only concerned with soccer moms who are into yoga. They're also after the "lapsed" or nearly-lapsed gamer market too, which was once "hardcore" and has the potential to be hardcore again. They're also after the stellar sales that their core titles used to have, back in the day of Ocarina of Time and Mario 64. Also, despite how insulting Nintendo may seem at a glance when they're not trying to sell themselves in your direction, they tend to be fairly aware that they have to keep niche customers happy. They do keep approving sequels in franchises that sell well almost exclusively to the hardcore's own fringe, and in recent years have become a lot more open to releasing more franchises in all territories. (I know, I know, except Mother. They just hate Mother fans. Or something.)

The upshot I think, is that I still think it is likely they will deal with issues such as storage. Wiiware titles are going to begin crippling the function of the Wii interface itself, as they grow in number and people must juggle channels like crazy. Everyone will be affected, not just the "niche hardcore". Watch as, magically, they suddenly say that poll numbers now reveal that the basic Wii user wants a storage solution, and oh hey, we just happen to have this one ready to go that realistically would have taken a year to research and develop...

 

[richman555]

The only thing I can think of that would be an issue for the storage problem is the fact that you cannot run/execute any of the games directly from the secondary storage. The SD card solution would almost be totally acceptable if you could run your games right from it. Also the same would be true for a hard drive or larger solid state memory solution (larger jump drives).

I think this issue needs to be addressed soon because its going to happen to more and more people, gamers and casuals alike. These people need some options. I think once Nintendo realizes that most people will only buy about 3-4 WiiWare titles and then run out of storage, they will get the idea. I guess the only best thing to do is keep bringing the issue up, eventually they will have to address it.

 

[wazoo]

people do not like the "removal/storage" thing, so they will only buy the games if they think they are keepers, and since the number of slots is short, they will even bypass keepers thinking that the next big thing on Wiiware has yet to come, at the end they will stop buying, and the consequence they will stop caring.

 

[Version 3.0]

By this logic, Nintendo also has no games ready for the latter half of this year. Realize the argument you're making.

And why would you apply this logic to games? I'm not making that argument. You thought it up.

I'm not at all convinced that Nintendo has yet decided anything on this issue. I think they will...maybe because of the data they're collecting with the Nintendo channel. But up until now, they've given it very little attention.

 

[Jokeropia]

How is Mario Galaxy so much different from Mario Sunshine or Mario 64? It's still go from world to world in a semi-nonlinear fashion, complete a handful of objectives with a collectathon in the background, until you fight Bowser in the end.

I hope you realize this description is so vague that if you just replace "Bowser" with something else it'll match a ton of games.

And even still, you concede that Zelda has done nothing to grow past the standard it set with Ocarina.

Nope. I said that TP was traditional, but MM, WW, and PH for that's sake are not.

presented barely any exploration, and only a fraction of the sidequests Ocarina and even Wind Waker provided.

I could not disagree more. There are dozens of hidden caves and a few of them are so large that they're more aptly called dungeons. Then there're chests, heart pieces, golden bugs, howling stones, poes...

but to say anything other than the series being on the other side of its peak is delusional.

No it isn't. Expecting them to beat what might very well be the best game of all time in every new entry IS, though. Considering that both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess still make my top 10 of all time list there's no reason why it's impossible to even match Ocarina eventually.

It brings to question a much deeper problem with Nintendo- these are the same franchises we've seen from anywhere from 10 years to over 20. Sony and Microsoft have always changed their first party image and lineup with each generation with little bleed-over.

:lol

Nintendo have created lots of new franchises in the last 10 to 20 years. I really hope you don't expect them to also retire their old ones? No publisher with as popular franchises as these would dream of retiring them.

And what, calling Mario Galaxy the best Mario game ever isn't an opinion you're trying to impose?

It most certainly is an opinion, but I'm not trying to impose it on anyone. I'm just presenting it as a counterpoint to your sweeping generalizations that are phrased as if they apply to everyone.

If you acknowledge that it's all a matter of opinion then I'd be happy to just end the debate and leave it at that. If you're interested in discussing these things anyway, TheGrayGhost seems happy to.

 

[jarrod]

I still think we'll get a solution coinciding with Animal Crossing (be it running content directly from the SD slot or a bundled HDD). So end of 2008 for Japan, mid/late 2009 for America and LOLZ for Europe.

NA may get it sooner though, maybe with Guitar Hero WT?

 

[dammitmattt]

I still think we'll get a solution coinciding with Animal Crossing (be it running content directly from the SD slot or a bundled HDD). So end of 2008 for Japan, mid/late 2009 for America and LOLZ for Europe.

NA may get it sooner though, maybe with Guitar Hero WT?

The problem is that Nintendo messed up from the beginning by having so little storage, so any solution is going to only hit a fraction of the userbase and developers will be hesitant to support it. It would be good for VC/WW game storage, sure, but DLC and add-on content will suffer throughout the life of the system.

 

[Jokeropia]

So true. Only gamers need this issue addressed. And gamers don't buy Wii.

Glad to see an official confirmation. Now maybe, we won't get banned anymore for saying the exact same thing.

If you think you a misread (by you) paraphrase of a statement from some guy at NOE is the official line then you are so stupid that a ban would be euthanasia.

because before this generation, "core games" were the only games

Please think about this statement for a second. I'm giving you a chance to retract it before I ridicule you for it.

 

[Monkeylord]

My biggest problem isn't so much the moving/copying to SD card or re-downloading games (it's annoying, but doable) it's more the fact that I have about 4 or 5 gamesaves that are well over 100 blocks each, and the Wii won't let you copy those ones to the SD card.

Eledees, Mario Kart Wii, SSBB (well, at the end of the month, anyway).

Any game that uses NWFC won't let you copy your gamesave and inevitably take up a huge amount of space.



I think that Laurent Fischers comments are stupid, and judging by past experience is almost a confirmation of an incoming solution.

 

[heydanbud]

So is a decent amount of quality 3rd party games apparently...

 

[bigmakstudios]

Nintendo have created lots of new franchises in the last 10 to 20 years. I really hope you don't expect them to also retire their old ones? No publisher with as popular franchises as these would dream of retiring them.

Have they really created anything in vein of Zelda, Mario, or Metroid? When in the last 10 years has Nintendo developed an ambitious, grandiose new IP for the core gamer? This type of game comes around all the time on other consoles, or on the Gamecube, N64, etc, from third parties. Gears of War, Mass Effect, Resistance, Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, God of War, Devil May Cry, Bioshock... that's the sort of game that would qualify. New IPs aren't always successful on 360/PS3, but they're there in spades. But from Nintendo... Pikmin? Isn't that all? They did develop Pokemon in around 1998, but that's been stuck on handhelds ever since. Nintendo seems really conservative when it comes to cultivating new series.

edit:

Please think about this statement for a second. I'm giving you a chance to retract it before I ridicule you for it.

I do think I should qualify that statement. I meant that the main focus of developers was to create the biggest core game. It wasn't a matter of drawing the masses to the console by creating a game that stripped most control from the players in order to appeal to people who wouldn't normally play games, and also lacked most of the "bells and whistles" and production values of modern games. And because Wii is selling based on the latter premise, Nintendo has been afforded the luxury of not really needing a console with the greatest library of games, at least by the standards with which games are usually judged. It's because developers have witnessed the success of this new philosophy, I think, that Wii has been flooded with haphazardly ported last generation titles and Wii Sports/Wii Play copycats. Nintendo has promoted minimizing development effort to maximize profits.

 

[jarrod]

The problem is that Nintendo messed up from the beginning by having so little storage, so any solution is going to only hit a fraction of the userbase and developers will be hesitant to support it. It would be good for VC/WW game storage, sure, but DLC and add-on content will suffer throughout the life of the system.

Sure, but that's why they'll bundle it with a high profile, multimillion selling 1st party title. Look at something like Star Fox 64 for example, did no rumble out of the box keep 3rd parties from using the feature in their N64 games? Look at something like Wii Fit, and the sort of attention it's attracting with 3rd parties. Nintendo's not the only one either, look at the PS2 which shipped without a network adapter for it's first couple years... did that prevent 3rd parties from doing online games in the end? Hell, in the end there were likely more PS2s with NAs in the market than there were Xboxes or GameCubes at all.

We'll likely get some sort of solution from Nintendo and later Wii models will likely have more onboard memory anyway... this is a platform that's bound to move 100m+ systems, frankly when you're dealing with numbers like those I don't think any feature that there's really some key demographic demand for will go ignored.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

i guess it wouldn't hurt if nintendo released some fringe storage component add-on solely to address storage issues. of course, it wouldn't sell extremely well. but nintendo isn't exactly bleeding money or anything. though, i guess i could see how if mom and pop casual gamer goes into best buy, looking to purchase one of those "wii" things, they could get a little scared off when the pimple-faced store clerk tells them they may have to by some storage component on what's supposed to be a straightforward gaming device. ... but then again the classic controller didn't seem to scare anybody off.

 

[Jirotrom]

I just want to post this again...

NINTENDO IM NOT BUYING ANY OF YOUR DOWN-LOADABLE WARES UNTIL YOU HAVE A SOLUTION TO STORAGE AKA HARD DRIVE.

 

[Wired]

Hay guys, let's start an online petition to show Nintendo that we mean serious buisness! Lolz!

 

[Jokeropia]

Have they really created anything in vein of Zelda, Mario, or Metroid? When in the last 10 years has Nintendo developed an ambitious, grandiose new IP for the core gamer? This type of game comes around all the time on other consoles, or on the Gamecube, N64, etc, from third parties. Gears of War, Mass Effect, Resistance, Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, God of War, Devil May Cry, Bioshock... that's the sort of game that would qualify. New IPs aren't always successful on 360/PS3, but they're there in spades. But from Nintendo... Pikmin? Isn't that all? They did develop Pokemon in around 1998, but that's been stuck on handhelds ever since. Nintendo seems really conservative when it comes to cultivating new series.

Kirby, Pikmin, Star Fox, Pokemon, Wave Race, Wario, Smash Bros etc. There are a few every generation, one or two of which sticks around as a new established franchise. It's a bit disingenuous IMO to compare games developed by Nintendo only to all games released on competing systems. (Nintendo also release lots of new IPs on handhelds.)

It wasn't a matter of drawing the masses to the console by creating a game that stripped most control from the players in order to appeal to people who wouldn't normally play games, and also lacked most of the "bells and whistles" and production values of modern games.

Well that's fine, because Nintendo doesn't do that either. Their core game releases are also as good and as plentiful as always.

It's because developers have witnessed the success of this new philosophy, I think, that Wii has been flooded with haphazardly ported last generation titles and Wii Sports/Wii Play copycats

Shitty developers make shitty games regardless whether they use waggle or not.

 

[65536]

That is a shitload of games. I'm a little flabbergasted at this thread. Some people here must play videogames every single day or something.

You really think so? For two years, I don't see that as being a lot really, seeing as the majority of them are very short by today's standards.

There's only 3/4 games on that list that are more than a couple of hours long, and I've barely spent any time with the N64 ones. (I honestly don't think they're very good games—not ones that have aged badly, just not all that great…) You could probably finish them all several times compared to just going through Twilight Princess, Prime 3 or Mario Galaxy once, for example.

 

[CTLance]

I hope you realize this description is so vague that if you just replace "Bowser" with something else it'll match a ton of games.

Sorry for derail, but what you said reminded me of these:

...and

source is 4chan, one of the few times something good has come of this cesspool.

My opinion on the matter at hand? LOL, NoE.

 

[HK-47]

Nintendo hardcore fanbase buy all Nintendo games, provided there are Nintendo mascots inside. If this theory is good (and only if, seems it is just an opinion) you can evaluate the sales of the Nintendo fanbase to the sales of the Nintendo 1st party sales, which incidentally always sell the same, no matter it is a racing/platform/fighting/action RPG game.

Except many of the games have jumped in sales and its a stupid generalization to assume every Nintendo fan buy every Nintendo game or that every buyer is a fan

 

[A Link to the Past]

The majority of them, who are also the ones that play nothing other than Wii Sports, Wii Play and Wii Fit.

But those games take up space, and according to Nintendo, anyone whose Wiis take up space are geeks and otakus.

 

[Diablohead]

512MB is still really shit when you think about all you can download, with more to come.

 

[A Link to the Past]

When I told my sister and parents about the whole "you can/have to redownload anything you've paid for on VC/WiiWare when you run out of space and have to delete stuff" thing they actually thought it was cool. I don't think people realise how little the non-hardcore people genuinely care about storing everything they've bought and played. Those who do are likely to be the ones that keep every single retail boxed game they bought and never sell them on again.

Here's a question; how many of you actually still play the Virtual Console games you've bought, played and finished back when the Wii launched? I'm sure the answer is that there are only the odd few that do that even among those people who are so upset about this.

Whatever the case, I just think it's really really dumb to get so uppity about this. "Oh I want to play that game but instead of deleting something I never play anymore, I'm going to leave it and BITCH AND PETITION and show everyone how angry I am about not being able to play this game".

Dumb much? If you ONLY acknowledge the existence of VC, of which many of its games are smaller than other downloadable content, then maybe you'd have a point. But should we ignore WiiWare, whose games are usually very large? And the downloadable channels, like the Nintendo Channel, which is obscenely large? Or the Wii Fit Channel and Mario Kart Wii Channel? And what about the save files? For someone with a lot of games, save files add up. And add on SSBB snapshots and videos which people will save and continue to add to.

Stop defending Nintendo. If you don't care, and think that it's irrelevant, well, I guess you're okay with mediocrity. If Nintendo found it irrelevant, that's fine - but FFS, spend the little time, money, and effort required to fix this problem, which people clearly consider to BE a problem, contrary to your assessment.

 

[HUELEN10]

Holy Crap!

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/jobs.jsp

And it was just posted yesterday!

Is this what we hope it means?

 

[beef3483]

We're talking about Nintendo fans justifying the insult

That wasn't what I was discussing at all and I made that point plain on my initial retort.

And as far I'm concerned I'm neither geek nor otaku so I don't feel insulted at all. But I do think it's funny all the people in this thread who are trying to convince Wii owners that Nintendo isn't right for them. Who is the fanboy here?

I have always felt that the average Nintendo/Nfan hater was 10X as pathetic as any Nfan themselves. People are fans because they like something and there is no shame in that. But to waste you're time actually typing hateful drivel towards a product that a company sells when any normal person would just ignore it. Who does that?

 

[A Link to the Past]

It brings to question a much deeper problem with Nintendo- these are the same franchises we've seen from anywhere from 10 years to over 20. Sony and Microsoft have always changed their first party image and lineup with each generation with little bleed-over.

Really?

Really?

I won't dispute that Sony and Microsoft "shake things up" with each generation, but is it the result of their desire to innovative, or is it the fact that their lineups are not strong enough to carry them exclusively? If they had a comparatively strong lineup to Nintendo's, they would have a lot of bleed-over. And even still, looking at their PS3, PSP, and 360 lineups, we've got Halo, Amped, Project Gotham Racing, Banjo-Kazooie, Fable, Forza Motorsport, and Fuzion Frenzy for MS, and Buzz, Gran Turismo, Ratchet & Clank, Hot Shots Golf, God of War, Jak and Daxter, Killzone, MLB, SOCOM, Twisted Metal, Singstar, Syphon Filter, Wipeout, Ape Escape, Jet Moto, NBA, PaRappa, ATV Offroad, The Getaway, and Warhawk.

While that's much more significant than Nintendo's bleed-over - Animal Crossing, Wars, Donkey Kong, Mario, Wario, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, Fire Emblem, Pokémon, Star Fox, Super Smash Bros., Yoshi, Chibi-Robo, Custom Robo, Starfy, Magical Vacation, Puzzle League, and Rhythm Tengoku. That's more bleed-over than the other two, but them using their tried-and-true licenses doesn't mean they're not innovating, and it doesn't mean they're not making new franchises.

 

[jarrod]

512MB is still really shit when you think about all you can download, with more to come.

Only 256MB is allowed for downloads btw. The other 256MB is reserved for the OS and system files/updates.

 

[HK-47]

Really?

Really?

I won't dispute that Sony and Microsoft "shake things up" with each generation, but is it the result of their desire to innovative, or is it the fact that their lineups are not strong enough to carry them exclusively? If they had a comparatively strong lineup to Nintendo's, they would have a lot of bleed-over. And even still, looking at their PS3, PSP, and 360 lineups, we've got Halo, Amped, Project Gotham Racing, Banjo-Kazooie, Fable, Forza Motorsport, and Fuzion Frenzy for MS, and Buzz, Gran Turismo, Ratchet & Clank, Hot Shots Golf, God of War, Jak and Daxter, Killzone, MLB, SOCOM, Twisted Metal, Singstar, Syphon Filter, Wipeout, Ape Escape, Jet Moto, NBA, PaRappa, ATV Offroad, The Getaway, and Warhawk.

While that's much more significant than Nintendo's bleed-over - Animal Crossing, Wars, Donkey Kong, Mario, Wario, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, Fire Emblem, Pokémon, Star Fox, Super Smash Bros., Yoshi, Chibi-Robo, Custom Robo, Starfy, Magical Vacation, Puzzle League, and Rhythm Tengoku. That's more bleed-over than the other two, but them using their tried-and-true licenses doesn't mean they're not innovating, and it doesn't mean they're not making new franchises.

7 Ratchets in 5 years...all in the same vein

 

[HUELEN10]

Seriously guys, do you think that job opening is for an HDD or to test out Rockband USB dongles. Now I am scared.

 

[Visualante]

Why would Nintendo America be testing products for Harmonix?

I thought all R&D is done in Japan, but if it's just software implementation of generic USB devices I suppose NoA could do it themselves.

 

[ManaByte]

Why would Nintendo America be testing products for Harmonix?

First party compliance. Sony and MS had to test the Rockband/GH controllers.

 

[HUELEN10]

First party compliance. Sony and MS had to test the Rockband/GH controllers.

That's what I started thinking too. All that could mean that the chances of this being tied to a solution are gonna go down...

 

[Vinnk]

So much hate in this thread. Like people were waiting (hoping?) for Nintendo to screw up this badly.

Ok boys, here is your chance. Vent like you have never vented before.

Show Nintendo who is boss. You won.. I guess.




I won't defend Nintendo, because I agree that the comment by NOE was a stupid thing to say and tries to brush away a huge problem with the VC and WiiWare services. But from reading these last few pages, so many posts just look like sheer fanboy glee that Nintendo basically handed them a gift-wrapped ammo clip so they could continue fighting the console war.

 

[besada]

So much hate in this thread.

Maybe we're reading a different thread, but I mostly see people who want to give Nintendo more money, if only Nintendo gave a crap about them.

 

[MoxManiac]

It's funny that they say that, considering those "geeks and otaku" are probably the biggest customers for WiiWare and VC.

 

[Haruspex]

Today I had a message pop-up telling me my Wii is out of memory, and I'm far from a 'geek', I haven't bought a game since No More Heroes and I haven't got a single Wii Ware title. But today when my bro bought MKWii the channel sapped up the last remaining memory. Some sort of external storage is needed, but then that would go against the whole idea of the Wii being the discreet box that complements any living room. Of course, we could get lots of SD cards or delete unplayed VC games, but I don't buy that bull Ninty.

 

[Krypton Zod]

Holy Crap!

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/jobs.jsp

And it was just posted yesterday!

Is this what we hope it means?

So, after a year and a half of nothing, just yesterday they decided to finally start looking for someone who will start looking into a test plan for what to do with the USB port.

...

 

[HUELEN10]

So, after a year and a half of nothing, just yesterday they decided to finally start looking for someone who will start looking into a test plan for what to do with the USB port.

...

Sigh, it appears so. Why must Ninty be so ass-backwards?

 

[tetrisgrammaton]

It's funny that they say that, considering those "geeks and otaku" are probably the biggest customers for WiiWare and VC.

yeah, how many casuals even know they exist?

 

[HK-47]

yeah, how many casuals even know they exist?

Casual doesnt equal stupid

 

[Krypton Zod]

Casual doesnt equal stupid

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/52899

Petz: 13 million units sold

 

[123rl]

Only Nintendo fans would support this "Fuck off, stop demanding things from us" mentality. Nintendo are outdated and refuse to adapt to the needs of their customers. Instead they do what they want and tell people what they need. Then they say we have to like it because it's the mass market that really matters...and people (gamers?!) agree with them. WTF?!

I'd be saying the same thing if Sony or Microsoft had a feature-killing roadblock (ie a fundamental lack of storage space) and this is definitely a big, big, problem for me. I refuse to buy anything on WiiWare until there is a backup function. Even to a SD memory card would be fine for now. If the Wii had an external HDD/backup facility then I'd gladly spend a lot of money on WiiWare/VC as there's a lot of stuff I'd like to buy. But that's just not going to happen when their DRM is so restrictive and there is physically a limit on how many games I can download. How the fuck can people defend such stupidity?

 

[Iam Canadian]

Freaking Nintendo. I'm not even asking for a hard-drive here. I'd be perfectly happy with the ability to run games off of the SD card. D:

 

[Cheesemeister]

I refuse to buy anything on WiiWare until there is a backup function. Even to a SD memory card would be fine for now. If the Wii had an external HDD/backup facility then I'd gladly spend a lot of money on WiiWare/VC as there's a lot of stuff I'd like to buy. But that's just not going to happen when their DRM is so restrictive and there is physically a limit on how many games I can download. How the fuck can people defend such stupidity?

Uh, you can copy your downloaded games to an SD card. You have to manually copy them back to the system before you can run them again, though.

The complaint is that the current 512MB storage capacity is too small and memory management is slow/cumbersome instead of automated in the firmware.

 

[HUELEN10]

Uh, you can copy your downloaded games to an SD card. You have to manually copy them back to the system before you can run them again, though.

The complaint is that the current 512MB storage capacity is too small and memory management is slow/cumbersome instead of automated in the firmware.

Not only that, but only 256MB of that .5GB are user-accessible, and the finite number of free channels makes it so that it is very possible to run out of channels before space.

 

[Death_Born]

Casual doesnt equal stupid

No, it equals ignorant. You can be smart and still be ignorant to the goings-on of video games.

 

[HUELEN10]

I'd gladly spend a lot of money on WiiWare/VC as there's a lot of stuff I'd like to buy. But that's just not going to happen when their DRM is so restrictive and there is physically a limit on how many games I can download.

You know, that really is the most ironic thing about it. The fact that DLC is being constricted due to a physical medium.

 

[Magik]

Petz: 13 million units sold

No f'n way that is right.

Somebody tell me that is a typo.

 

[phalestine]

No f'n way that is right.

Somebody tell me that is a typo.

thats prolly for the whole series of petz games.

 

[HK-47]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/52899

Petz has been around since before Ubi...wiki says 1995

And consists of half a million versions

 

[HK-47]

Only Nintendo fans would support this "Fuck off, stop demanding things from us" mentality. Nintendo are outdated and refuse to adapt to the needs of their customers. Instead they do what they want and tell people what they need. Then they say we have to like it because it's the mass market that really matters...and people (gamers?!) agree with them. WTF?!

I'd be saying the same thing if Sony or Microsoft had a feature-killing roadblock (ie a fundamental lack of storage space) and this is definitely a big, big, problem for me. I refuse to buy anything on WiiWare until there is a backup function. Even to a SD memory card would be fine for now. If the Wii had an external HDD/backup facility then I'd gladly spend a lot of money on WiiWare/VC as there's a lot of stuff I'd like to buy. But that's just not going to happen when their DRM is so restrictive and there is physically a limit on how many games I can download. How the fuck can people defend such stupidity?

There arent many people defending, not even Nintendo fans. Dont make generalizations