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[speculawyer]

After an initial sales rush, sales of the Nissan Leaf slowed, especially after they raised the base price from $32K up to $35K. Nissan has now just opened up the Smyrna, Tennessee manufacturing plant for building the Leaf and has slashed the price way down . . . including a base Leaf S model for just $28,800. There is a federal tax-credit of $7500 for the car. In addition, many states have additional incentive programs such as $2500 in California which drops the effective price below $20K! (It also gets to use the carpool lane and costs very little to drive.)

In a roundtable interview today at the North American International Auto Show, Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn announced a $6,400 price drop for the base-model 2013 Nissan Leaf. Last year's base model was $35,200, while the new base-level 2013 Leaf S starts at $28,800. Ghosn says the new prices make the Leaf the least expensive five-seater electric for sale in the US.

Some of the lower cost is due to a difference in content from last year's low-end model to this year's. But a sizable portion can be chalked up to the Leaf's production moving from Japan to Tennessee. The 2013 Leaf is not only assembled in the US now, but its lithium-ion batteries and the car's electric motors are manufactured in the same southern state.

The Leaf SV will be priced from $31,820 for 2013 compared to $35,200 last year. The high-end Leaf SL now starts at $34,840, down from the 2012 model's $37,250. These models also have differences in content. One big one is a new 6.6-kWh charger that reduces charging times pretty dramatically.

All 2013 prices will have an $850 destination fee added, but the cars will still qualify for a $7,500 federal income tax credit in addition to various state and local incentives.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/14/nissan-leaf-becomes-least-expensive-5-seat-ev-with-massive-price/

The Volt has been kicking the Nissan Leaf's butt ever since Nissan raised the price. But this large price drop may help Nissan improve sales. Of course, gas prices have been relatively low lately so that has sure slowed sales of EVs and PHEVs.

 

[Guevara]

It's cool, but as a city dweller I don't exactly have a garage with plug for it.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Oh snap. Tempting.

 

[speculawyer]

It's cool, but as a city dweller I don't exactly have a garage with plug for it.

Yeah, you pretty much have to be a home-owner to get one of these. Of course, that is still a very big market.

 

[Mac the KNife]

Great that it's cheaper & built in America. I drive way too much for an electric, however.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

I see a lot of them in Los Angeles but that's no surprise.

 

[speculawyer]

Oh snap. Tempting.

I think EVs like the Leaf are great for 2-car households. You can use the EV to drive back & forth to work and pay almost nothing for fuel. And you can have a gas car for longer trips.

 

[sangreal]

I've never seen one of these even though my town has public charging stations

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'd love one of these, but moving back into an apartment soon and I don't think there are any charging stations nearby.

 

[mavs]

I'd love one of these, but moving back into an apartment soon and I don't think there are any charging stations nearby.

http://carstations.com/

They seem pretty common on the coasts, but it's a bit thin compared to gas stations even in the best-equipped locations.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

I would also love to have one of these; I've had my eye on the Leaf for a while now. But I drive a lot because my gf lives about 75 miles away from me, so I don't think it would work out.

 

[speculawyer]

I see a lot of them in Los Angeles but that's no surprise.

Yeah, I pretty much can't go out w/o seeing one but I'm in silicon valley so it is to be expected. I'm starting to see some Tesla Model S cars . . . wow, that's a really nice car. Of course the only model you can get right now costs like 4X the Leaf.

 

[GusBus]

If I had the cash I would certainly consider it. I'm happy to see the Leaf (as well as the Volt) becoming more popular. When these puppies can finally hit a decent range (or get that swap out battery system going) the days of gasoline cars will be numbered. The future is sweet

 

[speculawyer]

http://carstations.com/

They seem pretty common on the coasts, but it's a bit thin compared to gas stations even in the best-equipped locations.

I would not recommend getting an EV unless you have a place you can charge every night. Public charging stations are nice if you are going to be driving a little longer than you normally do but it would be very difficult to rely on them for regular charging.

That said, an ordinary 120V outlet can be enough if you don't have a long commute.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

http://carstations.com/

They seem pretty common on the coasts, but it's a bit thin compared to gas stations even in the best-equipped locations.

Interesting... there are actually a few that aren't too far away.

How long does a full charge usually take on these things?

 

[Dead Prince]

how big is the charger?

 

[shira]

Great that it's cheaper & built in America. I drive way too much for an electric, however.

What does that mean anymore? I wouldn't buy an American made TV.

 

[senahorse]

*checks price in Australia* From $47,000, fuck you Nissan.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What does that mean anymore? I wouldn't buy an American made TV.

It means there are some people in a factory somewhere in America putting the car together.

Honestly, that's not particularly reassuring.

 

[speculawyer]

how big is the charger?

Base model has a 3kw charger and there is an option for a 6kw charger. Of course, the faster 6kw charger won't do you any good unless you have access to a 240V EVSE.

 

[speculawyer]

*checks price in Australia* From $47,000, fuck you Nissan.

Yeah, the price of the Leaf in Australia is crazy high. Not surprisingly, very few have been sold. I think the GM Volt (AKA Holden Volt) is also ridiculously high but a few more have been sold.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Base model has a 3kw charger and there is an option for a 6kw charger. Of course, the faster 6kw charger won't do you any good unless you have access to a 240V EVSE.

On the premium model isn't the 6.6kw charger built-in now like how it is in some other EVs?

 

[senahorse]

Yeah, the price of the Leaf in Australia is crazy high. Not surprisingly, very few have been sold. I think the GM Volt (AKA Holden Volt) is also ridiculously high but a few more have been sold.

I would really like to get one for our city only driving, but at the current price here we can't justify it, it just doesn't make financial sense.

 

[gcubed]

What does that mean anymore? I wouldn't buy an American made TV.

Why not? Vizio makes good tvs

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Why not? Vizio makes good tvs

Made in China.

 

[gcubed]

Made in China.

Well then

 

[Timedog]

Sheeeitt, when I'm making incredible money in a few years I hope that tax credit is still there!

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

If the possibility of charging was more available it would be more alluring.

 

[speculawyer]

On the premium model isn't the 6.6kw charger built-in now like how it is in some other EVs?

All EVs have AC chargers "built-in". The AC charging station has the ridiculous name of "Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment" (EVSE) but really doesn't have a 'charger' . . . it is just a tiny amount of electronics that does a handshake makes sure there is no ground fault. They are ridiculously over-priced.


The 6.6KW charger is nice if drive a long distance on a day-trip, charge up, and then drive home. But the 3kw charger is enough to charge it up to full overnight if you have a 240V EVSE. When you hook up to a 120V outlet, it won't matter which charger you have since you are limited by the voltage & current of the 120V outlet.

 

[Alebrije]

Send Leafs to Beijing !!

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

That's the Leaf? what an ugly, ugly vehicle.

 

[speculawyer]

If the possibility of charging was more available it would be more alluring.

This is more of a mind-set change that is needed. You gotta break the filling station mind-set we all have with gas cars. With an EV, you charge at home and at your destination (if possible). You'll rarely use public chargers unless they are free or you are making a trip that is long.

And again, until battery prices drop such that you can get bigger batteries, I think EVs are good for a 2 car household where you have 1 EV and 1 gas car.

It is evolution, not revolution.

 

[Tzeentch]

Did this thing have some ridiculous margins to tap early-adopter cash, or is now being sold at a loss/no profit? The drop seems too substantial to just be a normal business move.

 

[speculawyer]

Did this thing have some ridiculous margins to tap early-adopter cash, or is now being sold at a loss/no profit? The drop seems too substantial to just be a normal business move.

I think it was being sold as a loss before and it is still being sold at a loss.

But the reason for the price drop is that instead of being built in Japan, it is now being built in Smyrna, Tenn. USA. Thus, there are significant cost savings due to:
-Less shipping costs
-lower component part costs from US parts suppliers
-cheaper labor at US factory
-No yen exchange rate issue
-No union at US factory
-Lower taxes at US factory
-Lower land costs at US factory
-Lower energy costs at US factory
-This new base model S may reduce some features

Etc.

The EV world has been long-anticipating this announcement and they exceeded expectations with such a large price drop.

That's the Leaf? what an ugly, ugly vehicle.

Meh. Looks are subjective. It is just a typical looking econobox. It would be nice if they created additional car shapes though like a sedan, a mini-van, etc.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

All EVs have AC chargers "built-in". The AC charging station has the ridiculous name of "Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment" (EVSE) but really doesn't have a 'charger' . . . it is just a tiny amount of electronics that does a handshake makes sure there is no ground fault. They are ridiculously over-priced.


The 6.6KW charger is nice if drive a long distance on a day-trip, charge up, and then drive home. But the 3kw charger is enough to charge it up to full overnight if you have a 240V EVSE. When you hook up to a 120V outlet, it won't matter which charger you have since you are limited by the voltage & current of the 120V outlet.

But I thought the 240V adapter was always a ~$2500 add-on. One of them can only purchased as an included option on the highest trim level?

I really liked the Leaf when I drove it when it was first unveiled, but I drive so little I'm probably just better off with a cheap daily driver or another sports car.

 

[Stinkles]

It's cool, but as a city dweller I don't exactly have a garage with plug for it.

We have deluxe parking for ev owners at work, complete with charging stations.

 

[speculawyer]

But I thought the 240V adapter was always a ~$2500 add-on. One of them can only purchased as an included option on the highest trim level?

You get a portable 120V EVSE free with the car but that is not really sufficient if you are going to drive it every day.

So you pretty much need a 240V EVSE installed at your garage. Such a device should only cost $300 or so. Because they are new and a small market, they cost $500 to $1200. And since you generally need a licensed electrician to install, that bumps it up to $2000 or so to get one installed.

People have saved money by installing themselves or getting a portable 240V EVSE and just getting some local electrician to install a 240V outlet for hundred or two.


In addition to all this, there is the level 3 DC fast-charger but that is a whole other issue that I don't think is worth discussing since there are so few DC fast-chargers around and there is now a standards war starting. :-(

 

[duderon]

Good step for Nissan and EVs. I feel like I see more Leafs around the Triangle than Volts, which is counter to sales. Still have yet to see a Model S, but I think there are only a few in NC right now.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

This is more of a mind-set change that is needed. You gotta break the filling station mind-set we all have with gas cars. With an EV, you charge at home and at your destination (if possible). You'll rarely use public chargers unless they are free or you are making a trip that is long.

And again, until battery prices drop such that you can get bigger batteries, I think EVs are good for a 2 car household where you have 1 EV and 1 gas car.

It is evolution, not revolution.

True, but they already allow stuff (I forget the name of the company, I know ford uses them) that you use their credit card type thing and pay the cost that way and "fill up" where available. I have no problem with that at all, but there are hardly any chargers available except at certain dealerships. Public chargers are a good thing and should be added more than they have.

 

[CFMOORE!]

I see a lot of them in Los Angeles but that's no surprise.

yeah. i see tons on the 405. my lease on my civic ends in july. i am now tempted to go for one of these, especially since my company has a fuck ton of electric chargers in our parking garage and my commute is only 12 miles.

 

[speculawyer]

yeah. i see tons on the 405. my lease on my civic ends in july. i am now tempted to go for one of these, especially since my company has a fuck ton of electric chargers in our parking garage and my commute is only 12 miles.

Dude, look into it. There are (and will be) some great lease deals on the existing models. And if your employer has lots of chargers (which I assume you don't pay for) then you could charge up there and not charge at home such that you will have no gasoline bill and no electric bill!

And you can use the carpool lane.

 

[CFMOORE!]

Dude, look into it. There are (and will be) some great lease deals on the existing models. And if your employer has lots of chargers (which I assume you don't pay for) then you could charge up there and not charge at home such that you will have no gasoline bill and no electric bill!

And you can use the carpool lane.

exactly! we definitely don't pay to charge at work and i even think we get some kind of incentive here at work for getting an EV. there are too many incentives now to NOT consider one of these.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Yeah, you pretty much have to be a home-owner who lives close to their job to get one of these. Of course, that is still a very big market.

Fixed. The limited range makes it impractical for commuters.

 

[pax217]

I know the post is in-regard to the price, but if I ever buy a snoozer of an electric vehicle it'll be the Model S. The only difference between the Leaf and public transit is the smell. They're both monotonous, cheap and life-draining.

That, and it's not right having someone else pay for 25% of the car I decide to buy when I could just give that $8k to the SRF.

 

[speculawyer]

Fixed. The limited range makes it impractical for commuters.

Yeah, it only works well for ~80% or so of American commuters.

American Commute Distance (One Way) Percent
1-5 Miles 29 %
6-10 Miles 22 %
11-15 Miles 17 %
16-20 Miles 10 %
21-25 Miles 7 %
26-30 Miles 5 %
31-35 Miles 3 %
35 + Miles 8 %

http://www.statisticbrain.com/commute-statistics/

 

[-COOLIO-]

awesome. this is the car i would buy if i needed a car.

 

[speculawyer]

I know the post is in-regard to the price, but if I ever buy a snoozer of an electric vehicle it'll be the Model S. The only difference between the Leaf and public transit is the smell. They're both monotonous, cheap and life-draining.

That, and it's not right having someone else pay for 25% of the car I decide to buy when I could just give that $8k to the SRF.

Nice troll. Actually, if you don't like smells you are much better off with an electric vehicle that doesn't spew emissions and makes you smell like gas when you fill up.

Snoozer? 100% torque at 0 RPM. Or do you require something that goes "vroom vroom". Perhaps you could just say "vroom vroom" when you drive it and have a windshield wiper installed on the inside to wipe away your spit.

No one pays 25% of the car . . . you are just allowed to keep more of your own money for polluting less, using 100% domestic electricity for transportation fuel, reducing the trade deficit, increasing national security, reducing CO2 emissions, and helping built a mass market for EVs.

 

[OneEightZero]

Nice troll. Actually, if you don't like smells you are much better off with an electric vehicle that doesn't spew emissions and makes you smell like gas when you fill up.

Snoozer? 100% torque at 0 RPM. Or do you require something that goes "vroom vroom". Perhaps you could just say "vroom vroom" when you drive it and have a windshield wiper installed on the inside to wipe away your spit.

No one pays 25% of the car . . . you are just allowed to keep more of your own money for polluting less, using 100% domestic electricity for transportation fuel, reducing the trade deficit, increasing national security, reducing CO2 emissions, and helping built a mass market for EVs.

clapclap.gif

 

[pj]

I know the post is in-regard to the price, but if I ever buy a snoozer of an electric vehicle it'll be the Model S. The only difference between the Leaf and public transit is the smell. They're both monotonous, cheap and life-draining.

That, and it's not right having someone else pay for 25% of the car I decide to buy when I could just give that $8k to the SRF.

Is your morning commute a bourne car chase or something? I defy you to make driving in any city during rush our anything other than life draining, no matter what the car.

 

[Mac the KNife]

What does that mean anymore? I wouldn't buy an American made TV.

A factory full of people in America have good jobs? Is that a bad thing?