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[JGS]

This thread seems to be much more critical of this season so far than the first one.

Gotta say I'm not seeing the drop in quality some people are claiming.

I'm thinking it has to do with the new season. The 1st season for ones who hadn't read the book was a wholly original animal. The 2nd season is simply a continuation of last. So all the shocks of last season have matured now.

I'm still amazed at all they crammed into the first season. Now it's starting to feel like business as usual. It's still a great show, but part of what made it great is missing this season. It's lacking the normalcy that Ned provided.

I like how they split up his legacy between Jon & Robb (& probably Arya)

 

[Kud Dukan]

This thread seems to be much more critical of this season so far than the first one.

Gotta say I'm not seeing the drop in quality some people are claiming.

I think some (not all) are expecting major developments each episode, like the second half of last season, which isn't fair to the show since it has no choice but to spend a few episodes setting up all the different story threads. Overall, I haven't seen a drop in quality either. Regardless, after we get a few more episodes in and the gears all start turning, I doubt you'll hear as much criticism (unless they really blow it later, which is possible I guess).

 

[Cyan]

Clearly a White Walker. Re-watched season 1 not so long ago and the Prologue in ep1 shows beasts with exactly the same shape and look.

Note : Human with blue eyes are not White Walkers, they seems to be their living-dead human puppet.

A White Walker took the baby away. It had the same shape and glowing blue eyes as the ones in the prologue to season one episode 1 that killed the two guys.

...which are different than the reanimated dead people. Those are just zombies with blue eyes.

Oh damn, I need to go back and rewatch the first episode.

For example I expected shit to go down in the finale of S1, but it was just another episode with some extra setting up for S2.

wat

 

[fifasnipe2224]

Wait....... so we have the "White Walker" AND other zombies with blue eyes but look like humans and their eyes do not glow??? or are they one in the same?

 

[scosher]

This thread seems to be much more critical of this season so far than the first one.

Gotta say I'm not seeing the drop in quality some people are claiming.

I think people forget that even Season 1's plot was built up as a crescendo and the earlier episodes involve more place-setting and character building than plot movement. Most HBO shows are structured the same actually.

In general, I feel like HBO shows are always best watched in one sitting, rather than week to week. This show is too good though to wait till Blu-ray release.

 

[AngryMoth]

Wait....... so we have the "White Walker" AND other zombies with blue eyes but look like humans and their eyes do not glow??? or are they one in the same?

Its quite confusing. There are the Others which are the non-human guys from the very first episode and at the end of the most recent episode, and there are the Wight Walkers which are reanimated corpses with the blue eyes, presumably the minions of the Others. Or at least thats the way I understand it. I think they refer to the as wights more often to avoid the reference to Lost or something.

 

[pringles]

I'm still amazed at all they crammed into the first season. Now it's starting to feel like business as usual. It's still a great show, but part of what made it great is missing this season. It's lacking the normalcy that Ned provided.

I have a fear that the show will never again be as good as it was when Ned was around :-(
Hope I'm wrong. But Sean Bean >>> everyone.

Which sex scenes in particular did you feel not advance the story? I felt all of them in this episode (and pretty much every episode) advanced the narrative in some way.

It's not just the sex scenes, it's the nudity which is everywhere. Personally I think we've had a few too many scenes in Lord Baelish's whorehouse, and I don't think they need to show people having sex or running around naked in every one of them to establish that yes, this is indeed a whorehouse.

Like in this latest episode, the scene with the crying redhead and Baelish was good, but before that were a couple of pointless looks at some randoms having sex. And then full frontal nudity to top it of. Don't try to tell me that was completely necessary for the story.
There are many more examples. It's not something that ruins my enjoyment of the show, but like I said I think it cheapens it somewhat. And I think I would feel awkward if I found myself in a situation where I wanted to view the show with family/friends :lol

 

[fifasnipe2224]

I have a fear that the show will never again be as good as it was when Ned was around :-(
Hope I'm wrong. But Sean Bean >>> everyone.

Same =(
I am hoping they have some flash backs to him or something to that nature. Would be great to see a bit of Ned again. Now that I think of it I also miss Robert Baratheon and Drogo. Robert for his relationship with Ned and Drogo for how much of a bad ass he was and also he was very good to Khaleesi even though he did not have to be.

 

[walbertsmith]

It's not just the sex scenes, it's the nudity which is everywhere. Personally I think we've had a few too many scenes in Lord Baelish's whorehouse, and I don't think they need to show people having sex or running around naked in every one of them to establish that yes, this is indeed a whorehouse.

Like in this latest episode, the scene with the crying redhead and Baelish was good, but before that were a couple of pointless looks at some randoms having sex. And then full frontal nudity to top it of. Don't try to tell me that was completely necessary for the story.
There are many more examples. It's not something that ruins my enjoyment of the show, but like I said I think it cheapens it somewhat. And I think I would feel awkward if I found myself in a situation where I wanted to view the show with family/friends :lol

FWIW, by "sex scenes" I do mean "nudity" as well.

With that said, with regards to the scene of some randoms having sex. Like I said, I do agree that HBO takes liberties with sex, but I wouldn't say it was unnecessary. How did we see those randoms having sex? Through the lens of both the random guy (looking through a peephole) and Baelish (looking through a peephole). So now we're apprised of another purpose of Baelish's whorehouse that we weren't aware of before... as a basis of information.

In both seasons there have been several inferences (both overt and implied) of men of importance partaking in the whorehouses. And now we know that Baelish has direct access to that crowd (and apparently lets others have access as well, presumably for a price). We've seen time and time again that the show constantly has small references that become magnified sometime later. We probably haven't seen the last of this particular dynamic of the whorehouse; regardless, "whorehouse as a source of information" seems entirely relevant to the overall narrative. As the show has displayed time and time again... information is power (except when power is power).

You also say there are "many more examples" of unnecessary sex/nudity... what other examples are those? And what do you think of the Cersei/Jaime and Tyrion/Shae scenes *not* being gratuitous? That's a counterexample that no one has yet to explain.

Remember folks... "gratuitous" means 'entirely unnecessary', *not* over the top. All of these sex/nudity scenes serve a purpose, and when they wouldn't serve a purpose, HBO does *not* resort to excessive sexuality.

 

[Tacitus_]

Its quite confusing. There are the Others which are the non-human guys from the very first episode and at the end of the most recent episode, and there are the Wight Walkers which are reanimated corpses with the blue eyes, presumably the minions of the Others. Or at least thats the way I understand it. I think they refer to the as wights more often to avoid the reference to Lost or something.

The Others and the White Walkers are the same and were in the S1 prologue. Wights are the zombies you saw in S1.

 

[Squall ASF]

Episode started out with the best two characters! Was glad we got to see a bit more of Arya and man did Tyrion steal the episode for me. I absolutely loved when he put the head of the guard in his place. Enjoy his exchanges with Cersies too. He's making a quick and aggressive push to assert control where he can, already replacing the guard and challenging his sister's methods. It looks like things will really escalate next episode, Tyrion is making enemies all around him rather quickly. Some powerful or at least influential political figures he's going against. Snow's situation is certainly interesting, look forward to seeing how that will play out. It seems the Incest King gives out his sons as payment for being left alone by the White Walkers. This is very interesting as I thought they were namely mindless zombies. They could prove to add another interesting plot thread beyond just being action fodder. I also enjoyed the boldness of the Nights Watch transport towards the knights. Sex all served a purpose as I knew it would. Suddenly Luke Skywalker doesn't look so bad in light of Theon's blunder haha

Some of you guys need to be more patient, it takes an episode or two to setup all the main plot threads for the season. Everything will ramp up soon enough. There are a lot of interesting setups so far that make this season look very promising. I especially love that Tyrion is taking such a grand stage, can't get enough of him. Bring on episode 3!

 

[kame-sennin]

This show amazingly offered nice contrasts with the sex scenes this time. Nearly all of them were fine and dandy except for the godawful one invlve Theon & the hooker.

What was wrong with that scene?

I think some (not all) are expecting major developments each episode, like the second half of last season, which isn't fair to the show since it has no choice but to spend a few episodes setting up all the different story threads.

Some of you guys need to be more patient, it takes an episode or two to setup all the main plot threads for the season. Everything will ramp up soon enough.

The show may be hamstrung by the book, but it is generally not a rule that exposition and drama must be separate. If you need to spend the first third of your story on exposition before the drama begins, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Squall ASF]

The show may be hamstrung by the book, but it is generally not a rule that exposition and drama must be separate. If you need to spend the first third of your story on exposition before the drama begins, you're doing it wrong.

Uhhh there was plenty of drama going on this episode! Are some of you only satisfied if there are battles waging in every episode?

 

[kame-sennin]

Uhhh there was plenty of drama going on this episode! Are some of you only satisfied if there are battles waging in every episode?

There are dramatic scenes, but this show has always had the problem of frequent expository scenes that lack dramatic tension (I would argue this is the real reason people hate Littlefinger sexposition scenes). This has nothing to do with battles, the scene with Theon Greyjoy and his father was dramatic, even though there was no violence, because the stakes were high. Theon needed to convince his father to help Rob in order for the Starks to win the war. Lord Greyjoy's opposition to Theon's plan created dramatic tension. On the other hand, a scene were a smuggler hires a boat lacks dramatic tension. That scene felt long because there was no reason we needed to see it all.

 

[walbertsmith]

There are dramatic scenes, but this show has always had the problem of frequent expository scenes that lack dramatic tension (I would argue this is the real reason people hate Littlefinger sexposition scenes). This has nothing to do with battles, the scene with Theon Greyjoy and his father was dramatic, even though there was no violence, because the stakes were high. Theon needed to convince his father to help Rob in order for the Starks to win the war. Lord Greyjoy's opposition to Theon's plan created dramatic tension. On the other hand, a scene were a smuggler hires a boat lacks dramatic tension. That scene felt long because there was no reason we needed to see it all.

Maybe because of the nature of the scene though? Even before we learn about the "Iron Price" and the nature of the people of the Iron Islands... we've had a season+ long build up on Theon's relationship with his father just because we've been privy to his (and his father's) relationship with the Starks this entire time.

Meanwhile the scene with Davos and the pirate is between a character we've barely known for two episodes and a new one that was introduced just this episode.... taking place on an island new to this season.

Comparing those two scenes for "dramatic tension" seems a bit uneven, no?

 

[Squall ASF]

There are dramatic scenes, but this show has always had the problem of frequent expository scenes that lack dramatic tension (I would argue this is the real reason people hate Littlefinger sexposition scenes). This has nothing to do with battles, the scene with Theon Greyjoy and his father was dramatic, even though there was no violence, because the stakes were high. Theon needed to convince his father to help Rob in order for the Starks to win the war. Lord Greyjoy's opposition to Theon's plan created dramatic tension. On the other hand, a scene were a smuggler hires a boat lacks dramatic tension. That scene felt long because there was no reason we needed to see it all.

I see what you're saying, I just personally felt there were far more dramatic scenes with tension than scenes without it. Hell, I even felt some tension for Rose by the end of little fingers exposition. The scene with the pirate was one of the few without it and obviously you can't have tension in every single scene. You need some that are simply for setting things up like moving pieces (characters) around. I think the balance was heavily tipped in favor of drama this episode.

 

[Slo]

Loved Tyrion this episode, but I'm really worried about him getting shanked.

 

[fifasnipe2224]

Loved Tyrion this episode, but I'm really worried about him getting shanked.

Me too. He is one of my faves right now and I will be destroyed if yet again another one of my favorites in this show dies.

 

[kame-sennin]

Maybe because of the nature of the scene though? Even before we learn about the "Iron Price" and the nature of the people of the Iron Islands... we've had a season+ long build up on Theon's relationship with his father just because we've been privy to his (and his father's) relationship with the Starks this entire time.

Meanwhile the scene with Davos and the pirate is between a character we've barely known for two episodes and a new one that was introduced just this episode.... taking place on an island new to this season.

Comparing those two scenes for "dramatic tension" seems a bit uneven, no?

Shakespeare's Othello opens in the middle of the night with Othello and Desdemona eloping and Iago and Rodrigo telling her father about the secret marriage. This culminates in a confrontation between Othello and Desdemona's father within the first few minutes of the play. Shakespeare could have given expository scenes showing us how Othello and Desdemona fell in love, why Othello is considered such a great military leader, or how Iago and Rodrigo got involved. But instead, this information is slipped in discretely during dramatic scenes. As I said before, drama and exposition do not need to be separated. Characters can and should be introduced in dramatic fashion.

I see what you're saying, I just personally felt there were far more dramatic scenes with tension than scenes without it. Hell, I even felt some tension for Rose by the end of little fingers exposition. The scene with the pirate was one of the few without it and obviously you can't have tension in every single scene. You need some that are simply for setting things up like moving pieces (characters) around. I think the balance was heavily tipped in favor of drama this episode.

I also thought the scene with Littlefinger in this episode was pretty good, but I would disagree with the bold. Once you establish a goal at the beginning of a story, so long as every scene deals with the characters trying to achieve that goal - and some sort of legitimate obstacle preventing that - dramatic tension will be sustained throughout. I don't mean to single out GoT with this criticism. A lot of movies and shows have this problem. It's just particularly noticeable in GoT because there is so much information about the story world that needs to be explained. I would agree with you though, that overall the episode was enjoyable.

 

[walbertsmith]

Shakespeare's Othello opens in the middle of the night with Othello and Desdemona eloping and Iago and Rodrigo telling her father about the secret marriage. This culminates in a confrontation between Othello and Desdemona's father within the first few minutes of the play. Shakespeare could have given expository scenes showing us how Othello and Desdemona fell in love, why Othello is considered such a great military leader, or how Iago and Rodrigo got involved. But instead, this information is slipped in discretely during dramatic scenes. As I said before, drama and exposition do not need to be separated. Characters can and should be introduced in dramatic fashion.

Comparing a 3 hour play with an ongoing television serial is, again, an uneven comparison. One medium has a lot more room to breathe and add to the exposition whereas one does not.

With that said though, yes, I do agree with you that the technique makes for better storytelling. Just saying that the two scenes in particular that you chose aren't exactly a similar comparison.

 

[Xrenity]

Loved Tyrion this episode, but I'm really worried about him getting shanked.

I might quit this series if he dies.

 

[Nizz]

Loved Tyrion this episode, but I'm really worried about him getting shanked.

I would be seriously pissed if Tyrion gets taken out, he's my favorite character. He has at least a sense of compassion/honor, like how he seems to find the slaughtering of children too far. I loved how he replaced that head guard with Bronn.

That sure was an awkward moment with Theon when he realized it was his sister he was groping. Ouch. Ghost sure got pretty big this season, really loving how they're handling the Dire Wolves. Now you get the sense of them being intimidating. I'd love to see them in motion a little more, like in a battle. I also liked how they're building up the friendship between Arya and Gendry.

So far, there's been little time spent on Dany and her journey. Both episodes so far and she's been in a total of maybe 10-15 minutes? I complain because I care. I understand though because there's a lot of characters' storylines to set up this season. I think they've handled it well so far.

Whatever budget increase the show got, it's showing onscreen to me. Production values, effects, cinematography all looks a step up from last season.

 

[TCRS]

Great Episode! Pyke looked great, so did Yara. And Melissandre naked.. damn. I'm really starting to like Cersei. Other than that too much unnecessary nakedness.

 

[Rentahamster]

I might quit this series if he dies.

Lots of people said that after Sean Bean kicked the bucket. I don't think anyone really followed through, though, judging by the ratings for season 2.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

When I found out Theon was groping his sister... *barf*.

 

[Basileus777]

When I found out Theon was groping his sister... *barf*.

Watching the episode a 2nd time after knowing that made that scene pretty uncomfortable.

 

[Walshicus]

Watching the episode a 2nd time after knowing that made that scene pretty uncomfortable.

She's not actually Alf's sister. Rest easy.

 

[big ander]

Huh? Who is Alf?

 

[Basileus777]

Huh? Who is Alf?

Alfie Allen, Theon's actor. His sister is actually Lily Allen.

 

[Walshicus]

Huh? Who is Alf?

Alfie Allen...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfie_Owen-Allen

 

[big ander]

Don't have the humongous cast memorized yet, like I apparently should. My bad.

Anyway, saying "because it's not real it's not uncomfortable" is disingenuous.

 

[JB1981]

I was kind of attracted to that girl in a weird way.

 

[Dabanton]

I find the complaints about nudity and sex hilarious. Who are the people who complain about it watching this show with their maiden aunts?

As for the episode very enjoyable.

 

[Hot Coldman]

The fuck was that thing at the end? Dude. DUDE. This show is fucking back.

Tyrion destroyed the Knight's Watch guy. Hilarious.

 

[_Isaac]

Oh man. Nobody ever complains about the nudity in Spartacus. Why are people so concerned about it with this series?

 

[Yaboosh]

Oh man. Nobody ever complains about the nudity in Spartacus. Why are people so concerned about it with this series?

That girl's boobs were SO ugly. If they were better boobs there would be less complaints.

 

[ezrarh]

I wonder how the audition went.

"Congrats! Your boobs are just ugly enough for this scene. You got the job!"

 

[_Isaac]

I wonder how the audition went.

"Congrats! Your boobs are just ugly enough for this scene. You got the job!"

I always feel horrible when the point of a scene is to make fun of how ugly a character is because they're pretty much making fun of the actor.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I was kind of attracted to that girl in a weird way.

there's no way

 

[Ark]

I always feel horrible when the point of a scene is to make fun of how ugly a character is because they're pretty much making fun of the actor.

Money is money.

 

[Yaboosh]

there's no way

I assume he is talking about Yara. Which I can understand. The chick on the boat? Not so much.

 

[Rentahamster]

The fuck was that thing at the end?

It was the thing from the very first episode.

That girl's boobs were SO ugly. If they were better boobs there would be less complaints.

The girl's boobs were supposed to be ugly, and she was supposed to be ugly in general. I'm not an expert on accents or anything, but she even sounded like some dumbass peasant lowborn.

It was to show a part of Theon's character and how he treats other people, and how he can't control his dick, which says lots of things about the rest of his character and morals.

He likes to dominate other people when he can, as a compensation for feeling inadequate due to his prisoner/ward upbringing. It serves as a stark contrast to when he meets up with his dad and gets owned by him and his sister. He looks out of place, and while he was once riding high on confidence, reality smacks him right back down to the ground.

 

[Hot Coldman]

It was the thing from the very first episode.

It looked like twice as tall.

 

[Stat Flow]

Man, this episode was pretty great. Tyrion continues to show why he's the best character in this show. I cannot wait for that cunt Cersai gets fucked over. It'll be done in style.

No Geoffrey or Robb this episode. :|

And yes, something was oddly attractive about Yara BEFORE we found out she was his sister. I guess it was the way she showed up or something. But man, just so weird when the sister reveal happened. My sister and I were watching this episode together and and we were like "OHHHHHH..............noooooooooo *cringe*"

 

[Cyan]

Don't have the humongous cast memorized yet, like I apparently should. My bad.

Aw, don't be like that. It's a random bit of trivia, but it is kinda funny that the guy who plays Theon is Lily Allen's little brother.

 

[Rentahamster]

It looked like twice as tall.

The ones in the prologue were pretty tall too.

Compare the size of a newborn to an adult human head.

 

[JB1981]

there's no way

His sister not the girl on the boat.

 

[Rentahamster]

I always feel horrible when the point of a scene is to make fun of how ugly a character is because they're pretty much making fun of the actor.

Makeup and prosthetics can be used to make an actor uglier, just as it can be used to make an actor more attractive.

The guy who played Neville Longbottom wore fake teeth to look more stupid, and he's like the handsomest guy from the Harry Potter franchise.

 

[Hot Coldman]

The ones in the prologue were pretty tall too.

Compare the size of a newborn to an adult human head.

Eh, fair enough then. The angle was low in both shots too, which doesn't help.

 

[Funky Papa]

Eh, fair enough then. The angle was low in both shots too, which doesn't help.

IIRC that particular white walker was played by Ian Whyte, the same actor who was later picked to play The Mountain after Conan Stevens quit/was fired. He stands 7 ft 1 in (2.16 m).