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[The artful mincer]

Other than Elden Ring(since it's a special case) other Souls games did a great job of making sure if you sequence broke the game, that they wouldn't make the boss' health overly large to the point of extremely forcing you to level.

That's why I can go back and fight the Asylum Demon at a very low level and the fight not take forever(even though he can kill me in 2 hits), or why I can go fight in the pit in DS2 very early on if I take off my armor and jump down the well. Beefing up damage is fine but making it so that the health bar is so monumentally large that you have to grind for a long time to overcome it just sucks.

Most souls games made sure that the fights were short and sweet, and not necessarily a grind because you decided to go right even though they wanted you to branch left. GoW devs' answer to OP's problem is an incorrect one, but that doesn't make the game itself bad. It just makes it way more linear than some people wanted it to be due to bad reasoning. It's one of the reasons why the more forced linear Metroid games are divisive amongst fans.


Just be a better challenge that isn't based mainly on healthbars. Test OP to the extreme but not to a point of grinding. Make him feel like he earned the win more rather than feeling like he is slowly chopping a big tree.

To be honest what you say is all pretty reasonable. The main thing souls has that prevents this is leveling up your weapon.Although I have had some instances where it's felt like a bit of the grind. Demons souls and Bloodborne dlc stand out particularly but the souls trilogy are pretty good at this.

I'am not necessarily against long health bars as a gameplay device ( It's what finally makes overcoming sigrun in 2018 so satisfying) but I see where you're coming from

 

[The artful mincer]

Maybe and I also was very frustrated with that fight, both Gna and Breseker king were harder fights but no were near as annoying as that fight, I hated that boss. Devil told me just turn down the difficulty but I was too stubborn for that. I beat it eventually but It was not fun or satisfying.

To be fair beating them at level 6 is pretty good! I ve beaten them all accept the trio I am now at level 8 so it probably won't be as frustrating!

 

[The artful mincer]

As I remember one berseker combat is against 2 bersekers, another one against 3 bersekers and I'd bet other one is a berseker with minions.

But well, in any case it's true that many other bosses and minibosses have minions.

This is correct

 

[s-bojan]

I would not be able to beat that 1vs3 fight with aim assist. It was horrible - when they threw slow moving projectile, aim assist would aim to the enemy, not the projectile. To make things worse, projectile would usually move behind the main boss making it impossible to hit it.
If you play this fight, please turn it off. It was a game changer.

 

[sendit]

Disagree, they are fine. The one thing that absolutely sucks about the game is how Sony Santa Monica considers the players so stupid and mentally incapable that they can't solve puzzles on their own.

Otherwise amazing, amazing, amazing game with great combat.

I’m glad they did this. Puzzles are annoying to me.

 

[Danjin44]

Santa Monica considers the players so stupid and mentally incapable that they can't solve puzzles on their own.

It just not puzzles but also during the battle, character keep remind me when suffering from fire or Ice as if I'm too blind to see from character and UI, or telling me use shield bash even tho you can already see the blue circle indicating you should use your shield, or every time fighting a phantom the character needs keep remind you that they are vulnerable when their heads glow.

Why this game is treating me like I never played video games in my life?

 

[RoboFu]

The one big flaw in the new GOW battle system is you can’t see behind you and barely to the sides. They try to lessen this with mimir and your companions yelling at you but it’s still not a good enough system. It can make these optional battles a lot harder than they should be.

One other small thing that bothers me is the crappy health bar graphics on the enemies and bosses. Did they run out of money or something? Lol they seem in an unfinished “ my nephew can make those for free” state. They seem that they couldn’t decide on modern sleek and sharp or 90s all out graphical and decided on in the middle and then made them low resolution just for good measure.

 

[TonyK]

After dozens of failed attempts I lowered the difficulty to minimum to beat Gna and get the trophy. Fuck optional bosses, I want the platinum to uninstall the game (core game is amazing, I'm only yelling about Gna and the Berserk King).

 

[Danjin44]

I'm only yelling about Gna and the Berserk King

I honestly didn’t have issues with them, especially Berserk King which most of his attacks can be easily parried, but two his attack does AOE damage and can’t be blocked, I interrupt them by just activating my rage.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

So how you supposed to make this game more challenging without being "lazy?"

Like do you have any game design experience? Because damage sponge has been around for a long time and is prevalent across all of gaming.

Modern AAA games have many complex systems and are tested heavily. So I find it hard to believe that devs just phone it in when it comes to difficulty levels. Especially SMS, both GOW games look to be very well polished out of the gate.

I literally stated how. Just because damage sponges have been around for a long time doesn't mean they are a good design. It is easy, lazy design. Its why its so prevalent.

 

[yurinka]

I literally stated how. Just because damage sponges have been around for a long time doesn't mean they are a good design. It is easy, lazy design. Its why its so prevalent.

I'd say most players are smart and experienced enough to see that very rare to find bosses that are optional and very difficult require to level up all sorts of stats of your character, meaning that these optional bosses are meant to keep them for later in the game, for the endgame once you maxed out -or almost- your health bar, strength, defense, weapons, abilities, etc. and once you mastered the combat mechanics and some effective combos and attack patterns, or at least you leant the basics pretty well.

If you face them too early pretty likely is going to be a suicidal too difficult challenge unless you're a very skilled player. If you go there properly prepared the battle is very quick and in a handful of minutes you kill the bersekers.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

I literally stated how.

No, you didnt. You talked about alien isolation, which is a game you spend most of the time hiding.

Just because damage sponges have been around for a long time doesn't mean they are a good design. It is easy, lazy design. Its why its so prevalent.

OK so tell me how THIS game can be more challenging without resorting to lazy damage sponge then.

 

[gow3isben]

Leave and come back after leveling up it isn’t rocket science 99% of the time you aren’t doing a lot of damage because your opponent is higher level

 

[OZ9000]

The boss fights in this game often feel very similar with enemies that have 30x your HP.

The battles in the older games were more memorable and unique.

 

[RPS37]

I just spent an hour on one this morning. Died like 50 times.
I just need to come back with a resurrection stone and I got em.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

I prefer to play the newer god of war games on the easiest setting.
Enemies are too tanky. I don't mind the damage they deal, but damage sponge effect on even basic jobbers is boring.

On higher difficulties, it starts to feel like a beat'em up game that relies too much on you wailing away at the attack button.
Kratos should NOT feel this weak.

Agreed, this is one of the main things I disliked about the first one. In Souls yard trash goes down in two or three hits, but in GoW takes like twelve hits to kill a random zombie. It's just dumb

 

[Yoboman]

OP, I suggest you get good

I beat all end game bosses on GMGW on first try

 

[Kacho]

Leave and come back after leveling up it isn’t rocket science 99% of the time you aren’t doing a lot of damage because your opponent is higher level

 

[SafeOrAlone]

I have a few issues with the game. One issue is the pacing and gameplay loop. It’s such a tight rotation of puzzle, shimmy/crawl, combat.

But the combat is the only part that’s great.

There are just way too many puzzles. Some of them are satisfying but they aren’t clever enough that I want to solve them every few steps.
On top of that, it breaks immersion. Kratos should be able to get around with much less hassle, given the feats he is capable of.
Again, the sheer amount of puzzles is probably part of the issue there.

I know many will defend the puzzles as a mainstay in the series, which is true, but they never felt this invasive in my memory.

And then the shimmey/crawl part of the gameplay loop just feels like filler to me. Sure, you can appreciate the pretty graphics and hear from the side-characters, but it’s not at all engaging on a gameplay level. It doesn’t require any thinking, but it asks you to push buttons. And there is a lot of it.

It also contributes to the feeling that we are constantly being funneled along while the game loads.

I also just don’t think the story is worth all the trouble of telling it. It’s not a bad story but I wouldn’t call it great. I can only imagine it being called “great”, if we are grading it on a video game curve.
And yet, so much is sacrificed for the story. We are constantly slowing down for it.

There is a lot to like packed into this game but I have issues with the fundamental aspects of it, unfortunately.

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

I'd say most players are smart and experienced enough to see that very rare to find bosses that are optional and very difficult require to level up all sorts of stats of your character, meaning that these optional bosses are meant to keep them for later in the game, for the endgame once you maxed out -or almost- your health bar, strength, defense, weapons, abilities, etc. and once you mastered the combat mechanics and some effective combos and attack patterns, or at least you leant the basics pretty well.

If you face them too early pretty likely is going to be a suicidal too difficult challenge unless you're a very skilled player. If you go there properly prepared the battle is very quick and in a handful of minutes you kill the bersekers.

Which is simply artificial difficulty. If the boss is primarily difficult because of it dealing too much damage and having too high health while also making *you* take less damage and forcing you to be unable to use basic abilities because of some arbitrary level - then that isn't good design.

I beat all the bosses as I reached them on No Mercy, with all bosses on the first half of the game on Give Me God of War. They weren't challenging, just mind numbing due to how the game is balanced for difficulty. Instead of offering AI that can learn and change its patterns depending on the moves you use (rely too much on knock ups? It will take into account and dodge them forcing you to change your tactics), allowing bosses with new varied moves and combos, or offer unique phases in the fight entirely on harder modes that completely change tactics. A dragon that destroys half the field, requiring you to move, or that heals itself from fire damage, etc. Simple things like that.

This is a great combat system, but it isn't given good encounter design to make most of it. It needs to do away with this asinine artificial "difficulty" that the RPG-Lite mechanics offer. Focus on the combat and force the player to utilize every ability in their toolkit, not gate them until they have the gear to make a fight manageable/not a chore.

No, you didnt. You talked about alien isolation, which is a game you spend most of the time hiding.



OK so tell me how THIS game can be more challenging without resorting to lazy damage sponge then.

I did. Look again.

 

[The artful mincer]

Which is simply artificial difficulty. If the boss is primarily difficult because of it dealing too much damage and having too high health while also making *you* take less damage and forcing you to be unable to use basic abilities because of some arbitrary level - then that isn't good design.

I beat all the bosses as I reached them on No Mercy, with all bosses on the first half of the game on Give Me God of War. They weren't challenging, just mind numbing due to how the game is balanced for difficulty. Instead of offering AI that can learn and change its patterns depending on the moves you use (rely too much on knock ups? It will take into account and dodge them forcing you to change your tactics), allowing bosses with new varied moves and combos, or offer unique phases in the fight entirely on harder modes that completely change tactics. A dragon that destroys half the field, requiring you to move, or that heals itself from fire damage, etc. Simple things like that.

This is a great combat system, but it isn't given good encounter design to make most of it. It needs to do away with this asinine artificial "difficulty" that the RPG-Lite mechanics offer. Focus on the combat and force the player to utilize every ability in their toolkit, not gate them until they have the gear to make a fight manageable/not a chore.



I did. Look again.

I dunno all that stuff is well and good but some players just want to bang there heads against walls!

At some point somewhere the numbers have to be tweaked to up the challenge. Alot of the stuff you mention here are cool and desirable but short term difficulty wise and won't provide the challenge some players crave.

Honestly God of war leveling system is under appreciated in some ways. It tells you when you're under leveled, just right and over leveled. Everyone has different preferences on damage numbers so you can't please everyone.